Leopard Questions Answered

[HardOCP News]

The gang at Engadget has a copy of Leopard in house and they are doing their best to answer your questions about Apple’s latest OS. Five operating systems in six years is a monumental accomplishment and not just for the obvious reasons. I mean c’mon, getting people to pay $129 a year and go through the hassle of upgrading is pretty impressive.

We'll be here to do our best in illuminating the whole experience for you during the crucial, painful next few hours wherein you've nothing left to do but wait patiently for launch and ask Engadget questions about the technical minutiae.

 

[hamm3rhead]

I'm hoping microsoft starts issuing OS's on an annual basis, I think it's completely reasonable to drop a buck and change to add enhancements every 12-18 months. Even if a lot of enhancements are just fixes for reduced functionality in the previous version. I mean cmon why would anyone want to access all their applications right from the dock before now?

 

[uberbucket]

Are Apple's yearly o.s. offerings so radically different from one another or are they just over glorified service packs?

 

[djellison]

XP - £226
Vista - £312
(non-OEM - full feature 'pro' editions - the only uncrippled editions )
Total - £538

OS 10 £85 (the only edition)
10.1 (free upgrade)
10.2 £85
10.3 £85
10.4 £85
10.5 £85
Total - £425

XP/Vista £113 more than OSX.

And as for hassle - I just upgraded to Leopard. Took <30 minutes, everything works great. About as hassle free as I could possibly imagine.

You can argue the features etc etc if you want - but claiming that OSX is a rip off or a 'hassle' is simply not true - Redmond asks you to bend over less often, but much much further, than Cupertino.

Doug

 

[Azhar]

*puts on flame suit*

But at least Microsoft Windows is WORTH paying that much for. You can do anything on it.



Intel Mac users would be paying.. gasp.. £538 + £425 = £963

 

[djellison]

But at least Microsoft Windows is WORTH paying that much for. You can do anything on it.

18 months ago I'd have agreed with you - I'd have used four letter words at people suggesting I get a Mac. 6 months ago I got a Macbook and I've never looked back.

But I still HATE Apple fanboys - they drive me nuts

For your average [H] reader, a PC is the way to go...I still have a PC desktop and I imagine I will do for some time to come ( gaming, and a storage server ). As my day to day email, browsing, and multimedia productivity machine - my Mac wins, every time.

Doug

 

[Max Power]

XP - £226
Vista - £312
(non-OEM - full feature 'pro' editions - the only uncrippled editions )
Total - £538

OS 10 £85 (the only edition)
10.1 (free upgrade)
10.2 £85
10.3 £85
10.4 £85
10.5 £85
Total - £425

XP/Vista £113 more than OSX.

And as for hassle - I just upgraded to Leopard. Took <30 minutes, everything works great. About as hassle free as I could possibly imagine.

You can argue the features etc etc if you want - but claiming that OSX is a rip off or a 'hassle' is simply not true - Redmond asks you to bend over less often, but much much further, than Cupertino.

Doug

Er, why would anyone pay for the full edition (Ultimate and XP Pro) of Windows when the (much) cheaper ones do pretty much everything anyway? More so, why would you buy retail when OEM is about half the price and does /exactly/ the same thing?

 

[jmackay]

Er, why would anyone pay for the full edition (Ultimate and XP Pro) of Windows when the (much) cheaper ones do pretty much everything anyway? More so, why would you buy retail when OEM is about half the price and does /exactly/ the same thing?

Or another question is, why does microsoft insist on splitting up basic functions of their OS into different packages?

Why are there no basic games (ya know, minesweeper / pinball) in business edition and no backup in home?

 

[GJSNeptune]

Why are there no basic games (ya know, minesweeper / pinball) in business edition?

To make sure you're working.

 

[provoko]

XP - £226
Vista - £312
(non-OEM - full feature 'pro' editions - the only uncrippled editions )
Total - £538

OS 10 £85 (the only edition)
10.1 (free upgrade)
10.2 £85
10.3 £85
10.4 £85
10.5 £85
Total - £425

XP/Vista £113 more than OSX.

And as for hassle - I just upgraded to Leopard. Took <30 minutes, everything works great. About as hassle free as I could possibly imagine.

You can argue the features etc etc if you want - but claiming that OSX is a rip off or a 'hassle' is simply not true - Redmond asks you to bend over less often, but much much further, than Cupertino.

Doug

Your math is wrong. XP is £226 over 5 years, and Vista is £312 over possibly 3 years. So £538 / 8 years = £67.25. But no one pays that much for XP or Vista. I think the correct numbers in GBP is £100 (in USD $200). So XP+Vista is £200 / 8 years = £25.

There's no reason to argue over this, Apple loses on price when it comes to their software and especially their hardware. Its been like that for a long time now.

 

[jmackay]

Your math is wrong. XP is £226 over 5 years, and Vista is £312 over possibly 3 years. So £538 / 8 years = £67.25. But no one pays that much for XP or Vista. I think the correct numbers in GBP is £100 (in USD $200). So XP+Vista is £200 / 8 years = £25.

There's no reason to argue over this, Apple loses on price when it comes to their software and especially their hardware. Its been like that for a long time now.

Thats assuming you pay for every upgrade in OS X as well though.

 

[Nemesis999]

XP - £226
Vista - £312
(non-OEM - full feature 'pro' editions - the only uncrippled editions )
Total - £538

OS 10 £85 (the only edition)
10.1 (free upgrade)
10.2 £85
10.3 £85
10.4 £85
10.5 £85
Total - £425

XP/Vista £113 more than OSX.

And as for hassle - I just upgraded to Leopard. Took <30 minutes, everything works great. About as hassle free as I could possibly imagine.

You can argue the features etc etc if you want - but claiming that OSX is a rip off or a 'hassle' is simply not true - Redmond asks you to bend over less often, but much much further, than Cupertino.

Doug

Microsoft gave me 5 copies of windows for free (Vista ultimate, Vista Business, XP, XP64, XP W/SP2) Just because I'm an engineering student. Is Apple going to beat that offer?

 

[provoko]

Thats assuming you pay for every upgrade in OS X as well though.

Why wouldn't you? If you don't, you can buy the features separately from Apple, right? What is it, like $30-$50 per feature? So the OS is obviously a good value.

I can't resist.... Think $ifferent! Haha. Sorry.

 

[jmackay]

Why wouldn't you? If you don't, you can buy the features separately from Apple, right? What is it, like $30-$50 per feature? So the OS is obviously a good value.

I can't resist.... Think $ifferent! Haha. Sorry.

Well lets see... people are saying that you can buy the lowest end of Windows, but most buy every version of OS X released...

Guess you have to buy Pro, Pro 64, and Ultimate with that logic.

 

[Azhar]

Well lets see... people are saying that you can buy the lowest end of Windows, but most buy every version of OS X released...

Guess you have to buy Pro, Pro 64, and Ultimate with that logic.

Wrong logic. Try again.

His logic is similar to updating Windows with service packs or adding on something like Microsoft Plus. Buying different versions of Windows is NOT the same as upgrading OSX.

 

[c.d.e]

Microsoft gave me 5 copies of windows for free (Vista ultimate, Vista Business, XP, XP64, XP W/SP2) Just because I'm an engineering student. Is Apple going to beat that offer?

You think you didn't pay for that through your tuition? The school made a deal with a redistributor (Not directly with MS) for a volume license for evey student, which gets passed on to you.

 

[TechLarry]

That sound you just heard was the thunk of 10 thousand CIO's foreheads slamming down on their desks...

I'm hoping microsoft starts issuing OS's on an annual basis, I think it's completely reasonable to drop a buck and change to add enhancements every 12-18 months. Even if a lot of enhancements are just fixes for reduced functionality in the previous version. I mean cmon why would anyone want to access all their applications right from the dock before now?

 

[TechLarry]

You can't transfer OEM to another machine. Those that upgrade a lot (such as I do), go through a lot of machines in the lifetime of an OS.

Er, why would anyone pay for the full edition (Ultimate and XP Pro) of Windows when the (much) cheaper ones do pretty much everything anyway? More so, why would you buy retail when OEM is about half the price and does /exactly/ the same thing?

 

[provoko]

Well lets see... people are saying that you can buy the lowest end of Windows, but most buy every version of OS X released...

Guess you have to buy Pro, Pro 64, and Ultimate with that logic.

There's really only one choice for home use. For XP it's Home edition and Vista it's Premium edition. They have all the features you could ever ever ever want.

Unless you're a business, then you get Vista Business; obviously. It couldn't be more simpler.

 

[jmackay]

There's really only one choice for home use. For XP it's Home edition and Vista it's Premium edition. They have all the features you could ever ever ever want.

Unless you're a business, then you get Vista Business; obviously. It couldn't be more simpler.

There was a typo, it was supposed to say "must" not "most".

My point was, people are saying that Mac users have to buy every upgrade to Mac OS X, yet can only buy the basic version of windows even though it has stuff missing.

Home is missing quite a few features:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_home_pro.asp

And Pro / Pro 64bit were XP. So assuming that a user must buy every upgrade for their OS, a windows user would have to buy Pro, then Pro 64bit (to take advantage of 64bit stuff), then Windows Ultimate 64.

Its a valid comparison to have users buy the top end in both, or to not buy the top end in both (and thus not upgrade to each 10.X, but in steps eg: 10.1 -> 10.4 not 10.1->10.2->10.3->10.4) while its an invalid comparison to say windows users only need basic, yet Mac users need everything.

 

[provoko]

There was a typo, it was supposed to say "must" not "most".

My point was, people are saying that Mac users have to buy every upgrade to Mac OS X, yet can only buy the basic version of windows even though it has stuff missing.

Home is missing quite a few features:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_home_pro.asp

And Pro / Pro 64bit were XP. So assuming that a user must buy every upgrade for their OS, a windows user would have to buy Pro, then Pro 64bit (to take advantage of 64bit stuff), then Windows Ultimate 64.

Its a valid comparison to have users buy the top end in both, or to not buy the top end in both (and thus not upgrade to each 10.X, but in steps eg: 10.1 -> 10.4 not 10.1->10.2->10.3->10.4) while its an invalid comparison to say windows users only need basic, yet Mac users need everything.

Ohhh I see what you're saying. But the comparison is wrong because every version of OS 10.x has like around 3-5 features that most people want, right? So either you upgrade or buy individually.

When it comes to Windows, XP had a few versions, Home/Pro/Pro64. Pro64 came after and no one uses it except for professional programmers forced to code 64bit, in the work place. Home and Pro were basically the same with Pro having business features. Thats why Vista's Business edition was named Business and not Professional so not to confuse anyone. So really, the average person including enthusiasts would just need WinXP Home edition; those missing features in Home are kind of useless.

Vista is the same story. You buy Vista Home Premium and you'll never need another version, unless you're a business (Vista Business), unless you want it all (Vista Ultimate) and lastly unless you're either poor or a bastard PC builder (Vista Home Basic).

So yea. Normal PC users would just buy 2. While normal Mac users would buy all the OS upgrades 4.

You may be right though, I'm not exactly sure how many Mac users skip out on upgrades or how many just buy the features by them selves.