Looking to put a mid-range system together for under $500

[GaleForce]

So my old PC died and I really can't fix it without swapping out the motherboard and the CPU so I figured it's time to build a new computer. My old one was a simple HP tower I had bought while at school because I needed something to write papers on and such and I needed the computer that day. Before that I had built my own system and I was up to date on all the latest hardware and such, had a top of the line gaming rig with water cooling, the works, etc. but it just wasn't one of my priorities once the computer broke, and now I'm years behind on what is value, mid-range, and high-end. Anyway here's all the info;


1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

Primary use will be web development, web browsing, office, some photoshop, etc. If I can squeeze enough power out of it I'd like to be able to do some gaming on it. I feel like this is possible conisdering yesterday's technology is always cheaper than the current top of the line stuff and it's not like it's worse then when it came out. So that being said if I can game on the computer that would be great. I don't need to push crazy FPS but I do run 1920x1200 so obviously I'd need a rig that could support framerates high enough to run games at that resolution. I can always drop the resolution in games if the framerate is too low, though. There are some solid looking graphics cards under $150 though that seem to be able to handle themselves but I've only done limited research so far.


2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

My budget is $500 all in; my company is paying for it so I don't really have much wiggle room. The computer will be for my home so I could always kick in some of my own money but I'd rather not. I know newegg frequently ships for free so I don't think shipping will be an issue but if it is I guess I just need to keep that in mind.


3) Which country do you live in? If the U.S, please tell us the state and city if possible.

United States. Palm Beach County, Florida.


4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

Motherboard, CPU, GPU, RAM, PSU, & case. I'm just going to salvage harddrives from my old rig as well as salvaging my DVD drive since I really don't think the latter makes that much of a difference. If there are solid HDDs out there for cheap then I'd consider including that in the build as well especially since I know it can make a significant difference in the PC's speed. I don't need an OS.

I was looking at buying a CPU/Mobo combo from newegg. I was looking at this combo but I have no idea if there are better parts for less money or if these parts are even any good except for what reviews tell me.

I also picked out a GPU and RAM;
SAPPHIRE 100283-3L Radeon HD 5770 1GB
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)

Again this was after an hour or two of research so I don't know if it's overkill, if there's something better for my money, if the parts don't mesh well together, etc. I just wanted to get some parts together quickly to get an idea of if I can come in under budget. It seems possible but I have limited knowledge of the parts I'm looking at here.

Case and PSU I can select myself, although if someone wants to recommend a good PSU for the build that won't break the bank I'd love to hear it. I figure case is up to my preferences/money leftover and the PSU should be at least 500W.


5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

HDDs, DVD drive. Not sure on the HDD's models but they're a few years old and from a budget PC at the time. I'll be using them mostly for storage. If I need to get a low storage space HDD that is up to par with everything else I can use my existing HDDs for storage. I also have over 3 TB of external storage I keep all my media on so storage space really isn't an issue.


6) Will you be overclocking?

I don't plan to. I may play around with it eventually if the parts I get are capable of it, or if the build that's best for my budget would be conducive to overlocking in order to save me some money. I'd rather not have to overclock it though I wouldn't mind playing around with that in the future.


7) What is the max resolution of your monitor? What size is it?

1920x1200 - 24". I also run a secondary 22" monitor at 1680x1050 but I don't use it for gaming, just more screen real estate when I'm on the web or working on web development stuff.


8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

This week; ASAP.


9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? etc.

I'd like the Mobo to be forward compatable if that makes sense. eSATA, USB 3.0 and SATA 6 Gb/s would be nice. Firewire could be useful but I don't have any external firewire devices at the moment. I don't want/need onboard video since my graphics card will handle that. I don't need RAID since I keep my storage drives separate. I don't need Crossfire or SLI since this is not a gaming setup but if the board supported it maybe it is something I'd play with in the future but it isn't even a mid-level priority.


10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

Yes I have Windows 7 64 bit and access to Windows in 32 bit as well.


Anyway any recommendations for hardware would be much appreciated as I am flying blind at the moment. Basically I've been looking at what has good reviews on newegg but I don't want to mash a bunch of parts together that don't play well.

Thanks for any input you guys can provide!

 

[HardwareGuru]

$500 budget with those components and gaming, you'll have to go AMD Quad. Right under $500

CASE - COOLER MASTER Elite 430 for $39.99 w/free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119227

MOBO - MSI 870S-G46 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s for $79.99 w/free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130590

CPU + VIDEO CARD - AMD Phenom II X4 955 + XFX Radeon HD 6870 1GB both for $287.98 ($20 MIR on video card) w/free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.748619

RAM - G.SKILL Value Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM for $41.99 w/free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231424

PSU - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W for $49.99 w/free shipping ($10 promo + $5 MIR)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371030

Total: $499.94 w/shipping

 

[GaleForce]

Wow, that hit it spot on. I'd like the price to maybe come in a bit lower though so I have some wiggle room for incidental charges (extra cables, thermal paste unless CPUs come with some nowadays, etc.). It would also nice to have some more flexibility as far as case choices go since I'd like to be able to pick something I like but also is well built and has features I like. That being said I haven't looked at the case you linked to yet so it might be perfect for me.

The Mobo and RAM seem to be right in my price range, in fact cheaper than the ones I linked to. The CPU is a bit lower range (but barely I assume) as I'm just curious if there would be any noticable difference between the two? As for the graphics card I'm assuming it's higher end than the 5770 and I'd be curious to know how much better it is. Can I save maybe $20-30 on a graphics card without sacrificing too much? As I said it would be nice if the computer would run games but it isn't the primary use of the system. If I can get away with a value graphics card that clocks in a bit cheaper I'd be more inclined to buy that. My 3 year old graphics card in my dead HP was able to run new games on lower settings without a problem so something tells me I don't need to break the bank on a true mid-range graphics card to get solid performance.

For example, are these cards really going to hinder my computer's ability to play games compared to the one you linked? They look like they could save me a few bucks and I could either get a better CPU or the same one and have some extra money;

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130625
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102873

And as an example on the case this $50 one looks great; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153 - great reviews, better cooling, and awesome features. I don't need a side panel window although I do like the ability to mod in the future. Anyway that's just an example; I won't spend more than $60 on a case but there are some great options in that price range that might offer me something I like more with the same or better features.

All that being said I really appreciate you maximizing the budget. However if I can shave maybe $50 off to make the budget more attractive to the company, who is buying the rig, and give myself some more room for more case options and extra parts I might need it would help a lot. Where could I possible skim some money from?

Thanks again.

 

[GaleForce]

Also hypothetically if I wanted to get a new boot drive that's up to par with speeds drives have today what could we change to fit that in? That way I can add/subtract that device if it makes it easier to figure out where I can save some money on the build.

 

[HardwareGuru]

$500 budget with those components and gaming, you'll have to go AMD Quad. Right under $500

CASE - COOLER MASTER Elite 430 for $39.99 w/free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119227

MOBO - MSI 870S-G46 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s for $79.99 w/free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130590

CPU + VIDEO CARD - AMD Phenom II X4 955 + XFX Radeon HD 6870 1GB both for $287.98 ($20 MIR on video card) w/free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.748619

RAM - G.SKILL Value Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM for $41.99 w/free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231424

PSU - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W for $49.99 w/free shipping ($10 promo + $5 MIR)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371030

Total: $499.94 w/shipping

You can swap the cpu + psu combo with this
AMD Phenom II X4 955 + EVGA Geforce GTX 550Ti both for $247.98

The Geforce GTX 550Ti is still overall faster than the Radeon HD 5770

Oh, I would say stick with the Radeon 6870 1Gb video card if you want to consider gaming on a 24" 1920 x 1200 res. You may decide to lower the resolution setting in some games but, some games may not look as sharp.

Just to give you an idea of the performance of the GTX 550Ti. Note, the results you see will not be the same with an AMD Phenom X4 Quad core cpu as this testing was on a faster Intel Core I7 920 overclocked to 3.33ghz

 

[Dangman]

thermal paste unless CPUs come with some nowadays

They do these days.

The CPU is a bit lower range (but barely I assume) as I'm just curious if there would be any noticable difference between the two?

No noticiable difference between the two

As for the graphics card I'm assuming it's higher end than the 5770 and I'd be curious to know how much better it is.

The HD 6870 is rougly 35% to 40% faster than the HD 5770.

Can I save maybe $20-30 on a graphics card without sacrificing too much?

The performance difference is pretty dramatic actually. All right, with that combo deal, the HD 6870 1GB comes out to $168 shipped. The HD 5770 you've chosen costs around $120 shipped. So thats a 30% price difference for a 35% to 40% performance difference. Unfortunately, in terms of bang for the buck value, there really are no cheaper cards between the HD 5770 and HD 6870 worth buying.

And before you ask: I disagree with HG: Don't bother with the GTX 550 TI: It's often slower than the HD 5770 and costs more. Even with the discount of that GTX 550 TI, still not worth it.

For example, are these cards really going to hinder my computer's ability to play games compared to the one you linked?

Honestly depends on what kind of performance you're looking for, what games you're playing, and whether you want something that offers you the most bang for the buck value. If you're just looking for a solid 30FPS at 1920x1080 with low settings, the HD 5770 1GB would be ok. If you want a little eye candy, your best bet is the HD 6870 1GB.

I could either get a better CPU or the same one and have some extra money;

The Phenom II 955 is probably the highest-end AMD CPU I'd recommend these days. Anything above that and you're just wasting money on AMD at that point.

Anyway that's just an example; I won't spend more than $60 on a case but there are some great options in that price range that might offer me something I like more with the same or better features.

Another case to check out:
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite White with Black Front Trim ATX Case

Where could I possible skim some money from?

Besides dropping the GPU down from the HD 6870 to HD 5770, pretty much thats it. HG has pretty much hit the bottom of the quality barrel for those parts. Any lower than those parts and you're looking at really shitty quality parts.

 

[GaleForce]

Well like I said this isn't a gaming rig, it would just be nice to be able to play games on it as opposed to getting onboard VGA or a $50 graphics card. I actually did do the research on the GT450 or whatever it is and I did see it outranks the 5770 but I didn't know the difference between the two ATI cards and that is quite a difference.

So let's say my budget is $450 and I'm looking for a work computer that can run games. I guess I don't need to run 1920x1200 or the highest settings, just be able to run games that are out now and come out for the next year without the computer lagging and stuttering if possible. Pretend I need $50 to spend on a HDD if that makes it easier to come up with a build where I can just pull the HDD out to spend less.

Also buying a new HDD wouldn't be a bad idea; it would be nice to have a small capacity boot drive to take advantage of advances in harddrives as far as cache size and read/write speed goes since I know those contribute to how fast the computer runs. If I'm getting a Motherboard that supports 6 GB/s a might as well use it and I know my old internal HDDs certainly don't support that speed.

I really appreciate all the recommendations you've made so far and I'd be happy with that build, but I want to make sure that I'm going to be able to run all my work software as fast as possible. If that means downgrading the CPU, Mobo, or GPU a bit to save money in places I can do that. That might mean a small % drop whereas a faster HDD might mean a huge boost, unless I'm wrong about that. Remember gaming isn't a priority, I just want to be able to play games on the computer if that's at all possible at my budget.

Any lower than those parts and you're looking at really shitty quality parts.

It's also all relative. I was working on a budget tower from a few years ago and it worked fine for what I needed it to do. It couldn't run new games but it still ran everything else fine.

 

[GaleForce]

Just want to add I'd like your opinion on putting a new HDD as a boot drive in the computer as far as performance goes. Remember speed for applications is the most important thing this computer needs to do and if that means it not gaming as well I have to set my priorities straight. Keep in mind my internal HDDs are coming from a budget tower I bought several years ago so there's no way they're up to par with what is available unless not much has changed. They're not IDE drives or anything but I doubt they have a cache over 8mg if even that and I know their SATA speed is definitely whatever the minimum to middle was a few years ago.

 

[Dangman]

Well drop the video card down to this HD 6770:
$115 - PowerColor AX6770 1GBD5-H Radeon HD 6770 1GB PCI-E Video Card

The HD 6770 is basically the same as the HD 5770. The above switch will shave off $53 off HG's build. From there, go with this hard drive:
$45 - Western Digital WD5000AAKX 500GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

You should be under budget by like $8 after that.

If I'm getting a Motherboard that supports 6 GB/s a might as well use it and I know my old internal HDDs certainly don't support that speed.

Actually current hard drives don't even take advantage of SATA 3.0Gb/s let alone SATA 6.0Gb/s. In fact, it wasn't until like last year or so when mechanical hard drives exceeded SATA 1.5GB/s, a standard introduced in 2003. So right now and for the foreseeable future, SATA 6.0Gb/s is only useful for SSDs.

 

[GaleForce]

Thanks for the info. I definitely plan to upgrade to a SSD eventually however my current budget just doesn't call for it with the price they're at right now. I really only need like a 30-60gb SSD for booting Windows and apps but it would take too much of a chunk out of my budget.

If those cards are the same what was it about the other one that was better? Just clock speed or something? Could I do the same with the processor or should I stick with the processor you already recommended? That's one area I don't want to skimp so if the one you already showed me is a good one I'll go with that. The mobo doesn't have many reviews so is that just a Hardforum favorite or one you heard that was good?

Again thanks for all that info. I should have enough to show a potential build tomorrow and get budget approval.

 

[Dangman]

If those cards are the same what was it about the other one that was better? Just clock speed or something?

I'm sorry: I don't understand what you're asking. Can you please elaborate further?

If you're asking what's the difference between the HD 6770 and HD 5770, there really isn't any. AMD just rebranded the HD 5770 as the HD 6770.

Could I do the same with the processor or should I stick with the processor you already recommended? That's one area I don't want to skimp so if the one you already showed me is a good one I'll go with that.

Stick with the AMD Phenom II 955 as it's pretty much the best bang for the buck AMD CPU out now.

The mobo doesn't have many reviews so is that just a Hardforum favorite or one you heard that was good?

Well HG recommended that to you so I'm assuming he has a good reason.

 

[GaleForce]

I'm sorry: I don't understand what you're asking. Can you please elaborate further?

If you're asking what's the difference between the HD 6770 and HD 5770, there really isn't any. AMD just rebranded the HD 5770 as the HD 6770.

He recommended the HD 6870 to me and someone posted benchmark differences so I assume those two cards are different. I wanted to know if I'd effectively be turning a computer that can game into one that can't by going with s 5770 instead of a 6870 in order to save some money. I was also curious if the HD 5770 is the best card I can get for the price or if I should look at the GTX 550 Ti and if it is better at that price range. Someone told me to stick with the 6870 over the 550 Ti and that makes sense, but if I can still squeeze a solid gaming machine out of a 5770 I just want to make sure I get the most bang for my buck at that price.

For the motherboard I can't find an example right this moment but I just wanted to make sure that I should go with that one and not something that has hundreds of reviews on it and is perhaps the same price or even 10-20 bucks cheaper. I still do trust a recommendation here more though.

As for everything else I agree with you there. I just know some motherboards might be 10 or 20 bucks cheaper and have hundreds of reviews so I was curious what was so special about that one.

 

[GaleForce]

EDIT: Never mind, I just got a preliminary nod from the business that $500 even is completely reasonable. I almost feel like I should have pushed $600 considering how painless that was but no need to push my luck consideirng I feel fortunate enough that they're paying for a pretty sweet computer already. Yeah it's not top of the line but it looks pretty solid. They were even surprised the price included a new case and PSU so that's good news as well. Anyway the only thing I'm still unsure about is the motherboard because there are others out there that are a lot more popular but it seems like a good board after doing some diligence on it this morning.

By the way the part number on one of my internal harddrives is 9BJ13J-622 which is a 360 GB Seagate drive. I can't seem to find other info like the cache and if the speeds are at all any good (like I said I'm pulling this from a HP that's a few years old) but based on what you said on harddrives it seems I won't notice a dramatic difference unless I upgraded to a SSD. I know there's another 500 GB harddrive in the computer but I can't get at it because of the stupid proprietary way HP assembles their computers so that will be something I'll do tonight when I strip the machine. The 360 GB drive is the boot drive though.

 

[engiNURD]

If the company is footing the bill, I typically ask for more, then expect to get trimmed down (eg. if I want an $800 budget, I'd ask for $1000).

It is one of the top tier mobo companies. FWIW, googling for "870S-G46 problems" doesn't yield much, hehe. Looks like a budget board from a reputable brand at a price that fit your budget. Complaints on newegg seem to be about sata hdd detection and doa issues. Just be sure to take ESD precautions when building and you should be fine. Which other boards did you have in mind?

You'll still notice some difference, because newer drives are simply faster than older drives. The difference depends on the models. Your drive is most likely an ST3360320AS, which is a barracuda 10; and those typically get around 45MB/s to 65MB/s. The drive Danny recommended is a latest gen caviar blue, which should get around 100MB/s. There are faster drives, but your budget is the limiting factor.

 

[GaleForce]

It was actually the opposite for me. I offered to fix the computer for $200-300 in parts and they told me to just build a new one. I had no set budget but I didn't want to push it past $500 because I'm not working for a Fortune 500 company, just a start-up with a limited budget. If my old POS desktop was able to do what I needed it to do for work then I think this new machine will be more than fine. I could probably squeeze another $100-200 out of the budget but I don't think I really need it. If I did I would use it for things I didn't include in this build like making a new HDD, I need to add a wireless internet card I think (but those are cheap enough I can just tack it on), and a few other things.

In any case whoever it was who posted about HDDs made it seem as though they really haven't made a leap in technology in the past couple of years so it's a good place to save money. If a HDD was that important I could get a dual core processor and a lesser graphics card, for example, but I think components like those will have more of an impact that the harddrive. Granted I know the read/write speed is going to directly impact how fast I can load Windows and applications but I think a faster processor would have more of an impact (using the example). The drive is also something I can always add later if I think I need to shave some time off of loading unless you guys think using an old drive is a bad idea.

As for the model number I'm not sure what it is. I pulled the drive out and took a pic of the label but I didn't get any numbers that started with ST on them or any that look like it would be the one you're referring to. The numbers I took a picture of were the S/N, P/N, and whatever else is listed in that column on the label. I will check the drive later but I'm sure it isn't going to make that big of a difference from what you listed because I already know the drive is a few years old.'

And about the motherboard I really have no idea, I just saw a lot of other ones that were more popular when I was browsing around. I haven't followed hardware in a while so I don't know what are the best choices in my price range and I think the board suggested is the one I'm going to end up with since I trust people here more than I trust myself on that, I might want something with USB 3.0, Firewire or eSATA ports on it but I don't need that for anything I have attached to my desktop currently and I could always add them in an expansion slot.

 

[engiNURD]

Yah, you're right, it depends on the company.

Since Danny's recommendation doesn't affect which CPU to get nor GPU performance, the newer HDD is a good choice over keeping your old one as the boot drive, IMO. As I said earlier, you will notice a difference, but it won't be as drastic as an SSD. If you can post the pic of your old drive, it might help. I simply googled for "seagate 9BJ13J" and most of the results yielded that model.

I can't find any reviews on this board either, but it has USB3.0. It's just a variant of the board HG posted:
$65 - MSI 870A-G46 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

 

[Dangman]

He recommended the HD 6870 to me and someone posted benchmark differences so I assume those two cards are different. I wanted to know if I'd effectively be turning a computer that can game into one that can't by going with s 5770 instead of a 6870 in order to save some money. I was also curious if the HD 5770 is the best card I can get for the price or if I should look at the GTX 550 Ti and if it is better at that price range. Someone told me to stick with the 6870 over the 550 Ti and that makes sense, but if I can still squeeze a solid gaming machine out of a 5770 I just want to make sure I get the most bang for my buck at that price.

Let me simplify things for you: Go with the HD 6770 (same card as the HD 5770) since your budget cannot fit the HD 6870 now that you also need a hard drive. Since gaming is not a priority, don't worry about the massive performance increase with the HD 6870. You can still play games with the HD 6770 but at low settings. Whether or not thats "a PC that can game" is up to you. For many people, playing at low settings basically means the PC can't run games. For yoy, that may be different.

but based on what you said on harddrives it seems I won't notice a dramatic difference unless I upgraded to a SSD.
...
In any case whoever it was who posted about HDDs made it seem as though they really haven't made a leap in technology in the past couple of years so it's a good place to save money.

Two things:

First, is it really that bloody hard to look at my name and type it down? With your huge walls of texts, it's not the much more of an effort to find out the name of the users trying to help you. Especially when it's only been 3 people helping you.

Second, That's not what I meant about hard drives. Hard drives have been increasing in speed over the last few years. Back in 2006, the fastest hard drives could barely 45Mbs to 50MB/s. These days, you now have hard drives that can hit 170MB/s to 180MB/s. So while hard drives haven't been developed to take full advantage of the last two SATA interfaces, current hard drives are faster these days than old drives back in 2007 let alone 2003 or whatever.

So enginurd is right: You will notice a difference with the WD drive I recommended earlier over your older drives. And that WD drive isn't even one of the faster consumer grade drives out now.

The drive is also something I can always add later if I think I need to shave some time off of loading unless you guys think using an old drive is a bad idea.

Yes using an old drive is a bad idea. Remember that no matter what you do, the hard drive will usually be the slowest part in your PC. As such, you want to get as fast a hard drive as possible to keep up with the rest of the PC.

I might want something with USB 3.0, Firewire or eSATA ports on it but I don't need that for anything I have attached to my desktop currently and I could always add them in an expansion slot.

Ok, the MSI mobo that Enginurd recommended has USB 3.0 unlike HG's recommended mobo. You don't want to use an add-on card for those since those add-on cards are both expensive and slower than the actual onboard USB 3.0 from what I've heard. The MSI mobo that Enginurd linked to is pretty much the cheapest USB 3.0 capable mobo out now. Since you mentioned "forward compatibility", I highly recommend getting a mobo with SATA 6.0Gb/s as that will give you the capability to use current SSDs to the fullest of their capability should you upgrade to a SSD one day. Again, Enginurd's mobo link has that as well. But the many DOA reviews for that mobo is a little worrisome to me. So I'd actually go with these mobos instead:
$70 - Biostar TA870U3+ AM3 AMD 870 ATX Motherboard
$85 - MSI 970A-G45 AMD 970 AM3+ ATX Motherboard

 

[GaleForce]

Thanks I appreciate you clarifying that point on the harddrives. I feel so sold on the graphics card now though that maybe I'll just go out of my pocket if need be for a new HDD since this will be my home computer after all, and I get to keep it regardless of what happens to the company. Or I might downgrade the graphics card although like you just mentioned running games on low settings isn't exactly gaming to everyone and I was just getting used to the idea of being able to have a jack of all trades computer.

SATA 6,0 GB/s is a feature I had always planned to have in the motherboard once I learned it was for SDDs. Personally I'd love a SDD but they're pricey. Still I plan to upgrade to one eventually and didn't realize that the 6.0 GB/s feature was meant for that. USB 3.0 and eSATA aren't as important to me but it definitely wouldn't hurt if the board had it. If the board doesn't have ports for it I'm assuming I can't just hook an IO port up on the case to the motherboard if it doesn't support that type of interface. And out of curiosity on some boards I don't see it mention that they do support eSATA but I also don't see it say they don't. Do all boards support it and just don't have built in I/O ports for it or is it something like SATA 6.0 that has to be built into the board?

Finally I'm sorry if I offended you by not looking at your names and typing them out when I replied to each message. I may write more than average but I type quickly and to cut down on time I usually reference the post or if it's the first post I'll just say OP. Also I got far more responses to this thread than I thought, regardless of how many people were involved, and I thought a fair amount were new people chiming in because I don't commit forum usernames to memory.

Thanks for the other mobo recommendations. I'll take a look at them and tweak my computer options to see what I come up with. Is there anything substantial between the two you linked? They both look like they support the same features but the number of ports and connectors differ.

EDIT: I'm liking the $70 Biostar board that Danny linked. They have another board for the same price but I can't tell the difference in specs between the two except for number of I/O port connectors. Also since adding the harddrive I'm at $529 (keeping the better graphics card) but I have $35 in MIR so I should be able to swing it.

So here's the setup I think I'm going with. Since we're past newegg shipping hours I'm going to give it a few hours to sink in, in case I want to change anything;
Motherboard: BIOSTAR TA870U3+ AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz
GPU: XFX HD-687A-ZHFC Radeon HD 6870
RAM: G.SKILL Value Series 8GB (2 x 4GB)
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKX 500GB
PSU: Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W Continuous Power
Case: Undecided, something around $40-50

Any final comments would be welcome for sure. Is the CPU good enough, for example? I can still downgrade the graphics and upgrade the CPU.

There's a shellshocker deal going on for some PC3 12800 RAM (my current choice is 10666). Should I go with this instead; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231428

 

[Dangman]

If the board doesn't have ports for it I'm assuming I can't just hook an IO port up on the case to the motherboard if it doesn't support that type of interface. And out of curiosity on some boards I don't see it mention that they do support eSATA but I also don't see it say they don't. Do all boards support it and just don't have built in I/O ports for it or is it something like SATA 6.0 that has to be built into the board?

The former.

Thanks for the other mobo recommendations. I'll take a look at them and tweak my computer options to see what I come up with. Is there anything substantial between the two you linked? They both look like they support the same features but the number of ports and connectors differ.

There are a few differences:
1) The MSI mobo uses the AM3+ socket which means that it can support all of AMD's newest Bulldozer CPUs. Sadly those BD CPUs aren't really that good for the money right now but there is always the possibility of massive price drops on those CPUs or newer cost-effective AMD CPUs.

2) MSI is a bit reputable than Biostar

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz
GPU: XFX HD-687A-ZHFC Radeon HD 6870.

Make sure that you buy the CPU and GPU together from that combo deal like that HG posted earlier. That shaves off $17 right there.

Is the CPU good enough, for example? I can still downgrade the graphics and upgrade the CPU.

The CPU is good enough for your budget. You would basically have to forget about any gaming capability if you wanted a substantially faster CPU thats worth buying over the Phenom II 955.

There's a shellshocker deal going on for some PC3 12800 RAM (my current choice is 10666). Should I go with this instead; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231428

Buy it now.

 

[GaleForce]

Alright thanks again for all your help (and everyone else's). That mobo doesn't have many bad reviews so I may just roll the dice on it since I'm not interested in BD anyway. I know hardware should come first but if I don't spend an additional $15 on the mobo I could maybe get a case I like a bit better if I don't want to go with the Rosewell one (maybe the Centurion? I need to look at cases a bit more).

 

[Dangman]

Alright thanks again for all your help (and everyone else's). That mobo doesn't have many bad reviews so I may just roll the dice on it since I'm not interested in BD anyway. I know hardware should come first but if I don't spend an additional $15 on the mobo I could maybe get a case I like a bit better if I don't want to go with the Rosewell one (maybe the Centurion? I need to look at cases a bit more).

Other cases to look at:
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite Black ATX Case
$50 - NZXT Source 210 Elite White with Black Front Trim ATX Case
$70 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K58 ATX Case
$80 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K56W ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K56 ATX Case
$90 - Cooler Master CM690 II Advance ATX Case
$90 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K7B ATX Case
$100 - Cooler Master CM690 II Advance nVidia Edition ATX Case
$100 - Cooler Master HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$100 - Corsair Carbide Series 400R ATX Case
$100 - Lian Li Lancool PC-K58W ATX Case
$100 - Lian Li PC-7B Plus II ATX Case
$110 - Lian Li PC-60FN ATX Case
$125 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001WT White Full Tower ATX Case
$125 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-001BK Black Full Tower ATX Case
$125 - NZXT Phantom PHAN-002OR Black Finish w/Orange Trim Full Tower ATX Case
$130 - Corsair Carbide Series 500R ATX Case
$130 - Fractal Design Define R3 White ATX Case
$130 - Fractal Design Define R3 Black ATX Case
$130 - Fractal Design Define R3 Silver Arrow ATX Case
$130 - Fractal Design Define R3 Titanium Grey ATX Case
$140 - Antec Performance One Series P183 V3 ATX Case
$140 - Cooler Master HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$140 - Lian Li PC-9F ATX Case
$140 - Silverstone RV03B-W ATX case
$160 - Corsair Graphite Series 600TM ATX Case
$160 - Silverstone RV02B-W ATX case
$170 - Corsair Special Edition White Graphite Series 600T ATX Case
$178 - Silverstone RV02B-EW ATX case
$190 - Corsair Obsidian Series 650D ATX Case
$230 - Silverstone FT02B ATX Case
$270 - Corsair Obsidian Series 800D CC800DW Full Tower ATX Case

 

[GaleForce]

I'm trying to narrow it down and you're certainly not helping! Thanks for the list though; perhaps I'll want to upgrade at one point but I think right now the money would be better spent upgrading hardware if I wanted to spend it.

I can immediately cross anything over $90 off the list because I'm really not interested in going out of pocket on a case. All I need is a case that has solid features and looks good. A motherboard tray would be nice but I haven't seen any cases with those which is strange to me because I remember back during my last build that was the feature to get.

 

[Dangman]

I can immediately cross anything over $90 off the list because I'm really not interested in going out of pocket on a case. All I need is a case that has solid features and looks good.

Well good luck with the case search. THe cases you see in that list are cases that fit my personal criteria which are:
1) Good cable management
2) Large enough interior space for long video cards
3) Good cooling
4) Looks

The looks item is based off my personal aesthetics. So what looks good to me may be bad to you.

A motherboard tray would be nice but I haven't seen any cases with those which is strange to me because I remember back during my last build that was the feature to get.

Mainly because cases these days are fairly large and roomy which means it's now easier to work inside the case. Not to mention that not everyone constantly swap out parts. Then there's cost issue as well: Adding a removable tray does increase the cost of the case by quite a bit.

 

[GaleForce]

It was just surprising for me to see it as an up and coming big feature and now see it no where.

Is there a good way to tell if a case is big enough inside to accomidate my graphics card and have other room to work with? Like a minimum size? For example is the Centurion a good sized case? That Lian Li you linked looks nice as well because I love Lian Li and with the coupon code it comes out to under 60 bucks.

 

[E4g1e]

It was just surprising for me to see it as an up and coming big feature and now see it no where.

Is there a good way to tell if a case is big enough inside to accomidate my graphics card and have other room to work with? Like a minimum size? For example is the Centurion a good sized case? That Lian Li you linked looks nice as well because I love Lian Li and with the coupon code it comes out to under 60 bucks.

Here's the deal with the Centurion:

It is a completely outdated case, with extremely poor airflow by today's standards. Its intake consists of only one single 80mm fan, with virtually zero cable management features (in other words, the cables will be all over the place, choking off airflow even more). In the Centurion, couple that single 80mm front intake fan with the larger 120mm rear exhaust fan, and you'll have a dust vacuum that overheats all too easily under the load of anything that's reasonably modern.

 

[GaleForce]

Alright thanks for the heads up. I've been looking mostly at cases with 120mm intake and a dust filter anyway. Some cases only come with one rear mounted fan and I'd rather not have to add any fans at the moment although I'm sure I will once I have it built and get some temp readings. That Rosewell looks like a good form follows function design; I'm not crazy about how it looks but I don't think it's bad either and it has 2 120mm fans standard. I'm not sure if it has cable management though. I might also just go with the cheapest Lian Li you linked as well.

 

[GaleForce]

I'm going to go with the Rosewill I think as I can always upgrade later if I don't like it (since that keeps me in budget). It also has the eSata port on the front which I like. I'm not crazy about the blue intake fan but having the extra fan inside seems good as well.

 

[Dangman]

Is there a good way to tell if a case is big enough inside to accomidate my graphics card and have other room to work with? Like a minimum size?

Basically look at pictures of the inside of the case and note where motherboard mounting holes are on the far right of the motherboard tray. From there, eyeball how far the edge of those mounting holes are from the CD/hard drive bays. The minimum length common to all ATX cases is 9.6" as that's ATX standard. The HD 6870 is roughly 10" depending on which version.

Or just google the name of the case along with the words "max GPU length".

I'm going to go with the Rosewill I think as I can always upgrade later if I don't like it (since that keeps me in budget). It also has the eSata port on the front which I like. I'm not crazy about the blue intake fan but having the extra fan inside seems good as well.

Gonna be a bit cramped with the HD 6870 but might work.

 

[GaleForce]

I went with the Lian Li case and just ordered everything. I originally didn't think the Lian Li was toolless (which wasn't a deal breaker alone, I assumed some other things but I was looking at the wrong page) and I don't know why. I also didn't like the IO ports being on the top because of the place I'm putting the computer but I measured the top clearance and there's plenty of room for USB drives and such. From what I read in the reviews the Lian Li case is actually quite big so I don't think I'll run into issues. I'm glad I was able to use coupons and promo codes to get my total down a bit because I really didn't like the aesthetics of the Rosewill case whereas I love the simplicity of the Lian Li.

Anyway the total came out to $528 with all the instant coupons, combo deal, and promo codes I almost forgot to add for additional money off on some of the products. After mail in rebates that puts it right at $493. Again thanks for all your patience and help with this build; I can't wait for the parts to arrive, obviously.

 

[Dangman]

Good luck with the build!

 

[engiNURD]

and plz post some pics!

 

[GaleForce]

I definitely plan to, although I opted for a case without a window since the Lian Li with a window that had the same price as the one I bought wasn't on Danny's list so I didn't know if I could trust it (and I wanted to buy this thing tonight). I think it was one number higher or lower on the model number, with a W on it obviously, and looked almost the same. The identical model with a window cost $20 more and didn't come with a 20% off coupon. Plus I plan to have the computer put somewhat out of sight and I'm past my modding days, for now anyway. I may change my tune when I decide I want to play around a bit. Oh and fair warning: my cable management skills have always sucked but with integrated features in new cases to help manage cables I think I'll be able to do a better job at that, hopefully.

Also, an unrelated question and really not all that important because I bought the components already, what is the difference between the XFX card with 2 fans in the heatsink and the one I got (1 fan)? Is it overclocked, different specs or just cooled better?

And again thanks for the luck. It's been a while since I built a rig from scratch, not that it's difficult, but I'm sure I'll do something stupid like forget to hook the power button up to the mobo. I'll be amazed if the computer boots perfectly the first time I push the button.

EDIT: And now the inevitable second guessing begins; Did I skimp on a mobo and get one that won't run fast with the components I picked? Should I have spent the extra 10-20 bucks to get 1 TB for my boot drive? On the latter 360gb was fine prior since I just used it for apps, the OS, and recent downloads. Everything else goes to my external drives and I have an extra 500gb internal storage drive I can use (going to keep that 360 one in the broken rig for when I have a chance to fix it for a spare desktop). Still, an extra 500gb was so cheap and I did no research on HDDs but trust the one recommended (6.0 GB/s caviar blue) is a good one. Once I boot the system and everything runs great I'll feel fine again.

 

[tiraides]

Don't worry about your decisions. If you listened to all of the advice that you were given, then you ended up with a pretty good system given your relatively meager budget.

All motherboards run "the same" with the RAM and processor running at stock speeds. The more expensive boards offer various additional features such as better overclocking capabilities or additional connection ports. If you're not overclocking, especially not right away, you won't notice a speed difference compared to other similarly designed systems. However, you should notice a considerable performance boost -- due to the combination of newer, faster parts in general -- than what you were using earlier.

And the hard drive should have more than enough space. But that's assuming that you use your hard drive for all of your primary programs (in addition to the OS) and place nonessential programs and data onto your external drive.

 

[GaleForce]

Thanks, knowing that mobo diffferencce helps a great deal. Anyway I keep 3.5 TB of media on external storage. I'm not worried about 500 gb being enough, it just seems like why not get 1 TB when it's a few bucks more but you're right. I'm stripping my HP system down right now (not easy at all as I have no idea how they secured the parts) and once I do that I'll have another 500gb internal I can use for internal computer storage. 500gb for the boot drive is more than enough for the OS and my apps. Thanks.

 

[GaleForce]

Just had a quick question; Does the PSU that I bought have a 4 pin connector for the CPU? It doesn't seem to list it in the features and it's really hard to tell some of the connectors apart in the pictures (there's one that's not labeled PCI-E but looks like it could be labeled on the other side). Is it something that wouldn't be listed becuase it's pretty much standard unless the PSU has an 8 pin connector?

PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&cm_mmc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel-_-Content-_-text-_-

I know it lists a 4+4 pin, but I also know there are 8 pin connectors as well, so I'm not sure what the technical name is for the connection. Like I originally said; it's been a while since I've built a computer.

Google hasn't been a huge help, perhaps I'm using the wrong phrasing, but it seems that 4+4 are designed to work with both by breaking into 2 4 connectors or staying as one 8 pin. I'd appreciate confirmation on this though. I did find this gif which is promising but it never mentioned 4+4, but the name does kind of imply it; http://images.tigerdirect.ca/itemdetails/8-pin_animation.gif

 

[engiNURD]

Yup, the 4+4 connector would be for your CPU. The 4-pin was known as the P4 ATX12V connector. When it expanded to 8-pin, it was named EPS12V connector.

The PCI-E 8-in connector will not be split into a 4+4 config, but maybe a 6+2 config if split at all.

I just noticed that the Neo ECO doesn't come with a power cable. wth?! lol

 

[GaleForce]

Yeah I read that in the reviews. Luckily power cables are probably the cables I have the most abundant supply of.

Anyway if the 4+4 doesn't split do I just plug the 8 pins into the 4 pins? Is there a certain way to do it? The mobo has a 4 pin connection for the CPU so obviously all 8 pins aren't going to be utilized. I'm not concerned about the PCI-E cable, I was just mentioning that I saw a cable that looked like it might have been a 4 pin connector on top of another cable (since the PCI-E cable is labeled) but the label can be on the other side. It's just from the angle the picture was taken it's hard to see all the pins in that particular plug. I was just curious if the 4+4 splitting is a standard thing or if it doesn't happen to split if I can still use the cable without getting an adapter.

Looking very closely at the bottom left cable it looks like it could have been a split PCI-E cable in 6+2 but in the picture it actually looks like a 2nd set of 2 pins comes off of the 6 to give you the 4 pin plug if you need it. It's really hard to tell even with zooming in all the way though. However if that is indeed the 4+4 connector then I can't find the 2nd PCI-E cable in that picture. Perhaps they didn't get a shot of every cable in that photograph.

 

[engiNURD]

you'll notice the pin layout is the same for each 4x4 section of the plug, so it doesn't really matter, as long as you use either one end or the other, and not the middle 4 (and make sure the locking mechanism matches up). if you're picky, you can see which pins are keyed for which sockets, but either will work.

 

[Dangman]

I just noticed that the Neo ECO doesn't come with a power cable. wth?! lol

Man you have been gone awhile!

Yeah Antec stopped supplying power cables with the Antec Neo Eco and Earthwatts series a long time ago.

I was just curious if the 4+4 splitting is a standard thing

It's a standard thing.

 

[GaleForce]

Thanks again Danny, I almost freaked out there. I see it's split 6+2 in the picture and I figured you could just split it 4+2+2 if you wanted but after enginurd mentioned that PCI-E sometimes can be split 6+2, and I only saw one PCI-E cable in the picture, I thought maybe I wasn't getting the CPU plug (or the wrong one). Anyway glad that's resolved.

Man you have been gone awhile!

Yeah Antec stopped supplying power cables with the Antec Neo Eco and Earthwatts series a long time ago.

It's a standard thing.

They can probably bluff that decision by saying it was part of their Green plan. After all no computer enthusiast doesn't have an abundance of power cords so they'd just be adding more stuff in that people won't use or won't need to use.