Macbook or Macbook Pro?

SteveW928 said:
Hehe... if you stress them, the will warm up and the fans will come on... even fairly loudly if it is really working hard... but that it what it is supposed to do.

It is kind of hard, I suppose, to get the fans tuned perfectly so they scale up with the heat, stay as quiet as possible, give best battery life, etc. Most of these tweaks have just been kind of smoothed out that operation.

I don't think we had a MacBook before the very first update, so I can't give personal experience. But, I think the fan operation is quite good on it now. My first MBP had some fan issues that were kind of crazy, but the updates really took care of that. My only compliant is that I think they let it heat up a bit too much before scaling up (but, the MBP is kind of a different animal with the metal case that acts like a heat sink.

There is a little app called smcFanControl that you can DL and set the speed of your fans (anything above the RPMs the automatic system wants). I sometimes bump the fans from 1k RPM to 2k RPM and can't really hear them at either speed in my office, but the MBP runs quite a bit cooler to the touch then. Though, on colder days, it is kind of nice to have it be a bit warm... my own personal hand warmer. :D

-Steve
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Sweet

I've been searching for a small external HDD to use for keeping media on so I don't eat up the macbook's HDD.

What do you think about this one :cool: 120GB for $97 Pretty shaweet.

It also turns out that I probably won't be getting a macbook until the spring sometime, perhaps sooner. So when I do get around to getting one it looks like I'll get Leopard on there :D

EDIT-- Watch those signing of your posts ;)
 
with all this talk about fans i have a question.

i heard there are two fans in the mbp? the mb fan seems quite loud at full blast. Are the mbp fans as loud at full speed? or what.?
 
winston856 said:
What do you think about this one :cool: 120GB for $97 Pretty shaweet.
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Yes, that one looks nice. The only thing to keep in mind about any external HD, is that if it has FireWire (400 or 800), you can boot off it, also it will be faster than USB. Other than those two thing.... the USB drives work great. I have one I use for backup all the time partitioned in 3 sections for my PB, my wife's MB, and my work MBP.

BTW, a great program to do backup is called SuperDuper! In its free mode, it can do full backups (kind of like Ghost, a fully complete, bootable clone of your drive... or whatever you choose to backup). In the paid mode, it opens up scheduling, and a bunch of other features to backup various states for development roll-back, etc. But, it also opens up the ability to do 'refresh' type backups, where it just updates the the backup to be identical again... and only takes a few minutes usually.

But, as I said above... you need FireWire to boot. So, while cloning to another drive is 'technically' bootable, since you can't boot off USB, you wouldn't be able to unless you moved the drive into a FireWire based case.

winston856 said:
EDIT-- Watch those signing of your posts ;)
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Oh my... they are going to get me on this one I fear... It is just such a habit. :eek:

kgeier82 said:
i heard there are two fans in the mbp? the mb fan seems quite loud at full blast. Are the mbp fans as loud at full speed? or what.?
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Hmm... I'm sure they do, though to be honest, I've not heard my MBP ever get quite as loud as the MB. (I could be wrong, but I think they both might have two fans, the MBP does for sure) I think this is because the aluminum case on the MBP kind of acts like a heat sink, so the fans don't have to run as fast.

Also, the other thing to remember about either of these two machines, is that they basically have 2 CPUs. They are designed to be able to handle both CPUs running at full output if necessary... so even when you are running some app you think it pushing it fully, it is probably only doing so with one of the CPUs. (well, at least until more apps get better written for multi-threading.)

I typically don't push both CPUs full out... though I have a few times when doing 3D renderings... or when actually trying to, just to test it.
 
the mb only has one, ive had it open several times.

as for maxing it out, i was never worried about it. Im more worried about subtle differences between machines. i ove the macbook, but the fan at full load is pretty loud (as it probably should be), but still.

if the pro is quieter, ill spend the extra money
 
Yes, I would tend to say that the pro is a bit quieter when pushed. The reason for this is that the whole case on the pro is a heat sink to some extent, so more the heat escapes that way. On the MB, more of the heat needs to be pushed out the vent by the fan. So, when you really push it, and it needs to get a lot of heat out... it does wind up good. :)

However, I must say that I thought some fairly quite computers were noisy until one day a friend brought over his gaming PC. That sort of redefined what noisy was in computing, so then all these machines are quiet. LOL
 
SteveW928 said:
Yes, I would tend to say that the pro is a bit quieter when pushed. The reason for this is that the whole case on the pro is a heat sink to some extent, so more the heat escapes that way. On the MB, more of the heat needs to be pushed out the vent by the fan. So, when you really push it, and it needs to get a lot of heat out... it does wind up good. :)

However, I must say that I thought some fairly quite computers were noisy until one day a friend brought over his gaming PC. That sort of redefined what noisy was in computing, so then all these machines are quiet. LOL
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so then i'm assuming that the MBP would b hotter to touch during use?
 
The MBP while in low cpu use mode - surfing, typing, etc - has a cpu temp between 43C and 53C, and lap use is fine. When the cpu cores are pegged out at 100% for long periods of time, the fans ramp up and core temps rise to about 61C and the bottom case warms up so that you'd want to be careful during lap use.

I noticed it getting hot like that with a non-universal app that was hogging cpu cycles bigtime, and when in Bootcamp and gaming - but really if you're gaming you probably want a tabletop and a mouse surface anyway.
 
One other thing I was wondering is how do you perform a reinstall of the Mac OS X?

When I get the macbook I might want to reinstall to start fresh... I don't know how to harddrive comes from the factory either whether they partition it or not.

I'm use to windows of couse: setting CD-ROM to boot in BIOS, sticking in CD, rebooting, pressing a key when told, then I'm in the windows installer mode.

How is it with a mac?
 
winston856 said:
One other thing I was wondering is how do you perform a reinstall of the Mac OS X?

When I get the macbook I might want to reinstall to start fresh... I don't know how to harddrive comes from the factory either whether they partition it or not.

I'm use to windows of couse: setting CD-ROM to boot in BIOS, sticking in CD, rebooting, pressing a key when told, then I'm in the windows installer mode.

How is it with a mac?
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It's not going to come with weird partitions, it's all one partition for OS X/everything else, the filesystem in OS X is such that doing so won't effect boot times etc.. unlike XP.

Also to re-install/format your hdd, there is a set of dvd's in the bottom of the macbook box and you put in the 1st dvd, it starts up on the computer, choose the install OS X option and it will restart to the DVD as the boot device (no bios changing in OS X, it's all from within the OS, there are keys you hold on start up to get to certain devices though, but that's for another time).

It's really very simple, you customize your install and remove all the extra languages and printer drivers (about 2gb+ of worthlessness), and some other programs you probably won't use, like the office demo's and keynote/pages demos if you want.

Remember to format using a zero-pass option which will write zeroes to your whole hdd and you start completely fresh.

The OS X installer is really powerful, really cool stuff.
 
I'm looking to get a MB or MBP as a replacement from my hardcore gaming rig. Actually, I'm gonna quit pc gaming (I wouldn't dream of gaming on a laptop anyway, windows or osx). I've never used Photoshop before (besides the basics), but am probably gonna minor in photography, and need to use PS to do post processing on my pics. Would I benefit from having a MBP? Also, would a matte screen be better than glossy?

Also head of a program called aperture. Any comments on that? I wouldn't consider it a replacement to PS, but just want to know what others think about it.
 
A MB is not a gaming rig.

A MBP is a passible but not exactly hardcore gaming rig.

My MBP in Bootcamp XP scores 46K in Aquamark3, 2240 in 3Dmark06 and averages 90 fps in Counterstrike Source @ 1168x840 window.

For Pshop, it's all about cpu, ram and harddrive speeds - MB and MBP probably about the same, though the MBP has a bigger screen.

Aperture is a nice program for organizing a photoshoot into "best-of" piles. It looked okay.
 
kgeier82 said:
in reguards to the mb fan being a loud machine, i consider it loud at full RPM.
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My MB's fan has never had to go full blast besides me running a 100% cpu test on both cores to see if my MB suffered from random shutdown syndrome
 
As the owner of both a maxed out white Macbook and a maxed out 15 inch Macbook Pro, I have no hesitation in saying: Macbook Pro. Even if you can't afford it, you should get it :D
 
markintosh13 said:
A MB is not a gaming rig.

A MBP is a passible but not exactly hardcore gaming rig.

My MBP in Bootcamp XP scores 46K in Aquamark3, 2240 in 3Dmark06 and averages 90 fps in Counterstrike Source @ 1168x840 window.

For Pshop, it's all about cpu, ram and harddrive speeds - MB and MBP probably about the same, though the MBP has a bigger screen.

Aperture is a nice program for organizing a photoshoot into "best-of" piles. It looked okay.
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Well, I just meant that it's a desktop replacement. I don't want to game on a laptop anyway, sorry I mentioned it :p. So PS isn't very GPU dependent?
 
evs said:
so then i'm assuming that the MBP would b hotter to touch during use?
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My guess would be yes. I've only gotten the MB to run full blast a couple times intentionally... but didn't really check out the bottom temp on the lap or anything. But, in general, yes, MBPs feel hotter than MBs. They also feel WAY colder when you first turn them on... it's the metal thing. LOL

thunderstruck! said:
So PS isn't very GPU dependent?
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You might want to actually check with Adobe or someone 'in the know' about PS on this one. The GPU also effects 'Core Graphics' type stuff, whether 2D or 3D from what I know. While the GPU in the MB is probably plenty fast enough for the basic OS type stuff Core Graphics has to do... I'm not sure if the current or upcoming versions of PS will make use of this technology or not.

Also, I'm pretty sure Aperture would make user of Core Graphics. It works on both MB and MBP... but if you're heading more the photography or graphic arts route... you might consider the MBP. I'm guessing the MBP GPU will give you an advantage in Aperture, and possibly other stuff you might head into. If the budget is tight, then the MB will probably work fine though.

I'd definitely get 2 GB RAM though, and either the biggest 5400 RPM HD you can, or possibly the 7200 RPM drive if it is an option. (But, remember that if you are going to go over around 50 to 60% full on the 7200 RPM drive, the bigger 5400 will likely be faster. And big 5400s aren't that much slower for most things than 7200s). See:

http://www.barefeats.com/mbcd7.html
 
^^ Correct , programs like Aperature already, and likely future Adobe apps will be making use of the GPU.
 
Core graphics are a GUI thing.

Image transformation operations, in Photoshop, in iMovie, etc are unaffected by the GPU.

Transcoding a movie or applying a Photoshop filter takes almost exactly the same amount of time on an MBP compared to a similarly configured MB.
 
BrokenBoySoldier said:
just thought i'd let you guys know what i decided on...i went for a black macbook with 2Gb of ram and 120Gb HDD
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woot!

good choice man! There is still a lot of good info in this thread that I've been referencing for others though haha.
 
Nice - i got my white macbook today, the top one..may upgrade to 2gb in the future when leopard comes out ;)
 
BrokenBoySoldier said:
just thought i'd let you guys know what i decided on...i went for a black macbook with 2Gb of ram and 120Gb HDD
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Sweet dude, that's pretty much the exact model I want to get.

I'm just going to wait until jan/feb of next year so I can get one with Leopard on it.
 
Optional87 said:
My MB's fan has never had to go full blast besides me running a 100% cpu test on both cores to see if my MB suffered from random shutdown syndrome
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mine either, but i run full load, thats just how i roll :)
 
kgeier82 said:
mine either, but i run full load, thats just how i roll :)
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What are you doing full time that causes a full load? What kinda battery life you get from that haha.
 
markintosh13 said:
Core graphics are a GUI thing.
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Well, not completely true. While it is true that currently, the GUI is the primary thing that uses it, it is a library that can be used by apps as well. There are a few newer graphic editors and things I've seen that use core graphics. But, you're correct that things like rendering the video and stuff is CPU. Some of the real-time display effects and things are Core Graphics though.

I'm pretty sure some of the iApps use Core Graphics for some of the display type features, etc. But, I also have to say that from the small amount of use in these apps I've had on Mac Minis and MBs, they seem to work just fine. Same for the GUI... I'm sure if you could do some kind of automated test that did a bunch of GUI stuff... the MBP would win. However, when I'm just using either one in normal use... I don't really feel the MBP seems faster for the GUI.

It is kind of like some of the silly benchmarks I've seen that time the boot time of the computer, or launch time of apps. Who the heck cares? I boot my machine maybe once per month if that. Even if I had a desktop and shutdown daily... does a few seconds of boot time matter? Same with apps.... I typically launch my primary apps when I start to use them, and maybe quite them when I'm done. They are just kind of useless statistics IMO. There are MUCH more important things to measure the speed of a machine by.

BrokenBoySoldier said:
just thought i'd let you guys know what i decided on...i went for a black macbook with 2Gb of ram and 120Gb HDD
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Excellent! You'll have to report back when you get it and have had a chance to play!

Optional87 said:
What are you doing full time that causes a full load? What kinda battery life you get from that haha.
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Hehe... I do sometimes as well actually. I really use my laptop like a desktop. Battery life? I probably have mine plugged in on my desk 90% of the time. :) I haven't done much recently, but I do 3D rendering and animation from time to time... and that will use everything I can throw at it.
 
BrokenBoySoldier said:
just thought i'd let you guys know what i decided on...i went for a black macbook with 2Gb of ram and 120Gb HDD
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awesome. i know how you must feel. mine was delievered yesterday, but i wasn't home and TNT for some reason takes 48hrs to deliver so I have to wait till tomorrow.
 
SteveW928 said:
Hehe... I do sometimes as well actually. I really use my laptop like a desktop. Battery life? I probably have mine plugged in on my desk 90% of the time. :) I haven't done much recently, but I do 3D rendering and animation from time to time... and that will use everything I can throw at it.
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Ohhhhh k. Well you do remove your battery right? It's not good to have it plugged in so much.
 
Optional87 said:
Ohhhhh k. Well you do remove your battery right? It's not good to have it plugged in so much.
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That's not true. All modern laptops (and just about every other CE device made with a rechargeable battery) have overcharge protection circuits built-in. When the laptop is plugged in, some of the power coming from your transformer is powering the laptop and some of the power is diverted to charge the battery. Once the battery is at full charge, the circuitry is intelligent enough to stop diverting power in the battery, thus preventing an overcharge.

If you bought a brand new laptop, put the battery in, and proceeded to use that laptop off of wall power for the next 5 years 100% of the time, the battery would still be in perfect health. So if you leave your laptop plugged in, you're not doing any harm at all, that's just how laptops are designed.
 
kidicarus74 said:
That's not true. All modern laptops (and just about every other CE device made with a rechargeable battery) have overcharge protection circuits built-in. When the laptop is plugged in, some of the power coming from your transformer is powering the laptop and some of the power is diverted to charge the battery. Once the battery is at full charge, the circuitry is intelligent enough to stop diverting power in the battery, thus preventing an overcharge.

If you bought a brand new laptop, put the battery in, and proceeded to use that laptop off of wall power for the next 5 years 100% of the time, the battery would still be in perfect health. So if you leave your laptop plugged in, you're not doing any harm at all, that's just how laptops are designed.
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I know that the circuitry is smart, but the heat generated from the battery being inside of the laptop while still charged still isn't good for it right? That's the way it was explained to me anyway.

My 2003 Area-51m's batteries are completely shot, and it was plugged in most of the time. They can't hold charge (both of them) for more than a minute after unplugging it.

I just don't leave my laptop plugged in as much as I used to because of that as well.
 
markintosh13 said:
$129 for single users, $199 for a 5 user family pack.
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Then either 69 or 79 was it for Student single user?
 
Ok that's not too bad prices, I'm from UK so I'm guessing it will be around £50.

Also thought i'd ask, should i use any sort of firewall/anti virus with my macbook?
 
Optional87 said:
What are you doing full time that causes a full load? What kinda battery life you get from that haha.
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usually im plugged in when possible.

i do lots of stuff to run full load. im in the middle of backin up my 200dvd's. so thats a start.

and lets not even mention the time it takes to compress those all to 1gb files
 
Macca said:
Also thought i'd ask, should i use any sort of firewall/anti virus with my macbook?
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I don't think there are any virii or malware for macs....So I think you're ok.
 
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