flashoverride
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2013
- Messages
- 496
You can chalk this up to one thing: unlimited State chutzpah. Shut up, Citizen, we will tell you when it is okay to have an opinion.
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If you're not a licensed engineer, then you're NOT an engineer. You're a wannabe. It's analogous to being a Doctor. Don't call yourself one if you didn't pass the state licensing board.
Any company which uses the word "Engineer" in the position title should NOT be unless the candidate is either a licensed PE, or is an "Engineer-in-Training" and has passed the state's exam.
Becoming a licensed PE is not a joke. It takes years of experience, an accredited degree, recommendations from other licensed engineers about the quality of your work and your ethics and a nasty exam (minimum 8 hours).
The failure rate is commonly 50% for the PE exam (depends on the discipline).
I think you can chalk this up to a foreigner not knowing the state requires you to have a license in order to practice in said field.
Most companies these days use the word junior engineer, when they have a degree but are not currently licensed by the state and they practice under a "Senior" engineer who basically approves of their work and is has their P.E.
Kinda sucks to be in that position as a engineer in training, because the Seniors take all the credit for your work.
-Fellow MAE Bachelor
So... use Network Engineers need to be licensed in which states? Do we need a Gubmint sanctioned, no lube rim job from them too? This crap is getting ridiculous!
Italy was an interesting place and not sure if it still stands but back in the 80s a PHd (or whatever equivalent was) in Engineering was perceived as the most prestigious education qualification available and Dottore had more meaning for them than others; may had seemed that way due to people and teams I worked with *shrug*.
I do wonder though if organisations have become easier in terms of membership entry these days, just as an example IEEE used to have a very strong vetting process even for member grade and reading the requirements now seems easier.
Cheers
Made me laugh thoughItalians have always looked up to quality engineers ever since the leaning tower of Pisa.
/joke
I don't think the entire PE thing was originated by the Gubmint. That association has tried to pressure every state in the US and spread its influence in the minds of university students for a long time now. They want everyone to believe that you are a true engineer when you pass their certification (which is frankly a joke compared to your actual engineering exams in university). Not everyone has bought into their agenda, as plenty of states in the US and places in Canada, not to mention most of Europe (AFAIK), Asia, etc., do not use their system of "professional" certification. There has been this trend from other groups of self-interested parties that tried (largely unsuccessfully) to get other professionals in the sciences certified as PS (professional scientist), such as professional geologist/biologist/etc.
Any idea how PE is structured for different fields of expertise or even if it does?
Here in UK has it split to make it more specific and can also tie into specific institutions (my path was telecom-communications engineering).
Cheers
I'm from Alberta and the engineer title works basically the same way. Students are engineers in training and members of apega. Professionals pay membership dues to the organization and have to meet some requirements to use the title engineer both personally or in a company name. You essentially have to apprentice under a professional engineer for 4 years (similar to trades).
I'm a software developer and went off on my own after university (didn't work under a PEng) so I'm not eligible to use the term engineer when describing myself even though I have a degree in computer engineering and have worked in the industry my whole career. Such is life.
The whole thing is just bad PR though so on the one hand I'm surprised they bothered but on the other hand if they don't aggressively and publicly enforce their ownership of the term it loses it's value.
But you do not loose your title just because you visit the US. Nor would any reasonable Doctor refuse your advice because you didn't take a test in the US.In case people don't know this, being a doctor in another country does not give you the right to practice medicine in the USA without passing more test to be licensed to do so in the USA.
Texas! You are going to looooove right to work.I live in Portland but hate this communist hipster mecca so much. I'm actively looking at moving my family somewhere else currently you looking at red states. This story doesn't surprise me at all
In case people don't know this, being a doctor in another country does not give you the right to practice medicine in the USA without passing more test to be licensed to do so in the USA.
another state hard up for cash.
that's why the yellow lights are fast.
police need to get paid somehow.
But you do not loose your title just because you visit the US. Nor would any reasonable Doctor refuse your advice because you didn't take a test in the US.
There's scientists and engineers all over the world that collaborate on projects. They don't go out of their way to fine each other when they give advice.
This also works in the other direction. My family doctor is moving to Scotland and it took her months to get certified to practice over there. Even though she's been practicing for 2 decades, she wasn't able to just pack up and go to work the next day in Scotland. Some profession's job titles have more meaning than most people think about. This engineer story is no different. I think what really bound him up was where he pitches himself to become a Board member.
On a side note, i had a friend in high school who worked at a gas station who was a petroleum transfer engineer. lol.
How was the man practicing as an engineer? He stated he was an engineer...to support his observations. "Hey, I'm a technical minded fellow, and I know what I'm talking about." In no way did he present himself as desiring to undertake an engineering work, nor did he accept (or bid towards) any type of contract as one. He appended his title to his letter to add credence to his observations. He earned his title. Should a doctor from Nigeria be banned from signing any letter "Dr."? No, he may not be practicing as a doctor, but he earned his title. Same with this guy.
The fine was because the bureaucrats got caught. Can't have that.
Anti-government? Not at all. Just not ready to support (on my back) lazy asses. Fire 90% of government workers: most wouldn't even notice they're gone...
email to Oregon said:I am already working to “protect the health, safety, and welfare of the general public” especially in the City of Beaverton where the two transportation engineers are misreading Oregon Vehicle code, howthe law applies to the laws of physics for a vehicle in motion traveling through anintersection and the well-known engineering practices.
By misapplying engineering practicesand Oregon law they are putting the public at risk.
...
If you are looking for a Board member I might be interested since I’m already doing this kind of work...
article said:And yet, the engineering board in Oregon says he should not be free to publish or present his ideas. Tuesday, Järlström and the Institute for Justice sued the engineering board in federal court for Violating his First Amendment rights.
How was the man practicing as an engineer? He stated he was an engineer...to support his observations. "Hey, I'm a technical minded fellow, and I know what I'm talking about." In no way did he present himself as desiring to undertake an engineering work, nor did he accept (or bid towards) any type of contract as one. He appended his title to his letter to add credence to his observations. He earned his title. Should a doctor from Nigeria be banned from signing any letter "Dr."? No, he may not be practicing as a doctor, but he earned his title. Same with this guy.
The fine was because the bureaucrats got caught. Can't have that.
Anti-government? Not at all. Just not ready to support (on my back) lazy asses. Fire 90% of government workers: most wouldn't even notice they're gone...
You may recall that on September 3, 2014, you contacted OSBEELS to solicit support and an investigation into two transportation engineers [who] are misreading Oregon Vehicle code. The allegations were related to ORS 811.260( 4) and you wanted to present facts for the Board's review and comment. When I replied on September 5, 2014, noted that the Board does not have authority over ORS 811, requested that you complete a complaint form and submit evidence to initiate the complaint process, and provided a reprint of ORS 672.007(1 ). I informed you at the time that use of the title "engineer'' without registration is prohlbited in Oregon. I asked you to stop any further use of the title until you became registered. You agreed.
However, the allegations are that you then continued to use the title engineer in your communications with Board staff and, of more concern, are the documents you provided that indicate you may have engaged in unlicensed engineering work in Oregon. As a result of your emails, the Board's Law Enforcement Committee directed on February 12,2015, that an investigation be opened against you, separate and distinct from any investigation or potential enforcement action that may be taken against the transportation engineers who were the subjects of your initial inquiry
Getting a degree in engineering for an ABET accredited institution is usually enough to call one's self "Engineer". Most people even PhD engineers do not get any licensing because outside of a small fraction of engineers no one needs it.I have no problem with this, IF he used "Engineer" vs "engineer". As far as I know, the capitalization matters, and people shouldn't say they have credentials that they don't. For example, many people don't know that Dr Dre never actually went to medical school.
Getting a degree in engineering for an ABET accredited institution is usually enough to call one's self "Engineer". Most people even PhD engineers do not get any licensing because outside of a small fraction of engineers no one needs it.
Getting a degree in engineering for an ABET accredited institution is usually enough to call one's self "Engineer". Most people even PhD engineers do not get any licensing because outside of a small fraction of engineers no one needs it.
From my understanding for Canada, it is a requirement if you want to be working in your field to be a P.Eng (I believe they give you about 7-9 years total as an EIT), stamping or not. Ultimately you will need to be a P.Eng to keep practicing in your field.
That just tells me that you don't give a shit about the training of the persons required to sign off on the design of structural design of your house.
Nor do you seem to care about the training & credentials of people who design bridges or elevators.
There are THOUSANDS of types of jobs that require a licensed engineer. Do you think an unlicensed Doctor should be allowed to practice medicine too?
Do you really think it's okay an unlicensed person to call themselves an "engineer"?
US companies have diluted the meaning and credibility of the Engineering profession as a whole.
Companies add the word "Engineer" to a job title to make it sound good and make it sound like you're knowledgeable.
If you're not a licensed engineer, then you're NOT an engineer. You're a wannabe. It's analogous to being a Doctor. Don't call yourself one if you didn't pass the state licensing board.
Any company which uses the word "Engineer" in the position title should NOT be unless the candidate is either a licensed PE, or is an "Engineer-in-Training" and has passed the state's exam.
Becoming a licensed PE is not a joke. It takes years of experience, an accredited degree, recommendations from other licensed engineers about the quality of your work and your ethics and a nasty exam (minimum 8 hours).
The failure rate is commonly 50% for the PE exam (depends on the discipline).
This man was in the wrong. He should not have spat in the face of the Oregon State Engineering Board. Not only did refer to himself as an engineer, but he claims that Civil Engineers for the City of Beaverton were "misapplying engineering practices". Then, he has the audacity to say:
What a joke. An engineering degree in electronics does NOT provide an equivalent level of education for newtonian physics as a Civil Engineering degree. Wave motion != car velocity. This man is an idiot if he thinks that his knowledge of speaker design makes him an expert with tire friction and public safety.
Derf, have some respect. There are many licensed engineers out there who work hard and actually care about the safety of the public.
I wouldn't call it a "(mostly) worthless test", but hey, what do I know?
Hell, I've seen some pretty smart people fail the PE exam multiple times. Maybe they're just bad test-takers, maybe it's the stress. And maybe, just maybe, the test wasn't a cake walk.
Sincerely,
J Macker, Nuclear P.E.