What good would that do? My friend just started doing some research at nVidia and he spend a full morning with their legal department, where he was told what he could and couldn't divulge to non-employees. I am sure that very few people working at Intel/ AMD/ nVidia in a position where they'd know, would be willing to risk their job (and possibly more) over some discussion on the internet.
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
More of the same....
- Thread starter Manny Calavera
- Start date
What good would that do? My friend just started doing some research at nVidia and he spend a full morning with their legal department, where he was told what he could and couldn't divulge to non-employees. I am sure that very few people working at Intel/ AMD/ nVidia in a position where they'd know, would be willing to risk their job (and possibly more) over some discussion on the internet.
Xilikon
[H]ard|DCer of the Year 2008
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2004
- Messages
- 15,011
So how can you explain this account : http://www.hardforum.com/member.php?u=94703
Nice coincidence that your account creation date is just 4 days after being banned in the "Conroe debunked" topic
You are being silly yourself for using the same name...I've read some of Scientia's work. He posts frequently at AMDZone. He is also quite the AMD fanboy. I wouldn't take his work seriously, but that's my opinion. It is unclear whether one or two more steppings are needed. All that is certain is that B01 stepping not being able to run at 2 GHz reliably is not a good indicator for a successful launch in the near future. Whether it's late (needs one more revision) or really late (needs more than one) neither Scientia or myself knows.
So how can you explain this account : http://www.hardforum.com/member.php?u=94703
Nice coincidence that your account creation date is just 4 days after being banned in the "Conroe debunked" topic
What's your point?
What does it matter whether some account is banned or not? Does banning me make the Barcelona a sudden success? Then by all means, ban me.
Other than that, it's really none of your business.
mpcamer1220
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2003
- Messages
- 1,717
Scientia is a breath of fresh air - when you look around and see most of the people making comments are people like Sharikou..
I lost brain cells reading his blog. There is so much misinformation in it that it's not even funny.
However, the whole (AMD) world looks so much rosier through his lens. I might as well be reading about the "miracle" B1 Barcelona stepping that had AMD dancing in the aisles from Charlie @ theinq.
mpcamer1220
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2003
- Messages
- 1,717
Scientia is not nearly as open about bias as Sharikou. He posts enough technical information and knows his stuff well enough to have a technical discussion but he still has an AMD bias. It is quite clear if you read his blog. And he loves to make claims against major reputable sites like Anandtech.
He also made some claims about Intel. For example, Intel's early Conroe demonstration system was using water cooling and that's why they would let anyone look inside the case. We don't know this. I don't know this. He doesn't know this. He just likes to make statements like that without any proof.
If Anand is correct, the samples floating around Computex were B01 steppings running at 1.8 GHz. I'm assuming that Anand saying B01 is different than him saying B1 which would be the next true revision. If this is true, then it looks like there aren't any B1 stepping Barcelonas floating around amongst the vendors. According to Scientia's blog, those should have been available in April so I find it hard to believe that vendors wouldn't have them in June. This could mean that B1 steppings were just completed or they have not yet been completed which would put a major dent in Scientia's blog's schedule. They would then be about two months behind which puts them at a November release (assuming they need a B3 stepping). That's roughly in line with what the MB vendors were saying at Computex.
Don't get me wrong, people on the Intel side of the aisle do the same thing. If you can be just technical enough to convince people you know what you're talking about, it's easy to inject bias. I'm likely guilty as well. I would say right now that I show some anti-AMD bias as I am pissed off at their inability to execute. They certainly don't have the enthusiasm or appeal they did in the Kryptonite 7 days.
After reading your last post it looks like my sarcasm meter is off... sorry
pxc said:
Actually, the stepping he referred to was B0.
Speaking of Charlie; after all the ass-chewing for the original bogus piece, he has another article out today saying official roadmaps have pushed desktop Phenoms out to Q1 '08 with clocks of 2.4-2.6GHz. Between Scientia and Charlie "dancing in the aisles" Demerjian...I dunno.
AMD pushes out Phenom SKUs once more
This thread is lame.
I was criticizing his blog mentioned in that post, not disagreeing with your post.You took that out of context.
When I was reading his blog I was reminded of Ed from overclockers.com. Both seem to stroke their chin, then deficate on their keyboard to inspire a blog entry. It's just absolutely pathetic how much "convention intarweb wisdom" (wisdumb) gets posted when it's in direct opposition to history and fact. And what's worse is that there is a ready audience to soak up all that they want to hear, while ignoring reality.
yeah, it went downhill quickly thanks to the usual offender.
Charlie was taking a beating on Aceshardware's forums.
Yeah, that was great.
It kept him (Groo) away for a few days.Intel executes and is bashed daily by Charlie. Through this whole Barcelona fiasco Charlie has yet to post anything negative about AMD, and continues to make convoluted excuses and attempts to justify his bad information. Even the linked article above (or was it the other one), hints at something but he won't follow up.
I don't throw around accusations of people being paid off, but I think Charlie has a financial reason not to trash AMD. Whether it's advertising or stock ownership, I don't know.
Digital Viper-X-
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2000
- Messages
- 15,124
Nah, the whole subforum is lame
thanks to you ^^
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 5,862
Scali2, I agree with you that using a more recent BIOS didn't improve my system's performance but I don't agree that performance can't be crippled by BIOS and you can't gain a lot of performance with a better BIOS.
I'm not an expert like you but let me ask you something, how do people overclock their CPU? They change the BIOS settings like FSB clock, CPU multiplier and etc. How high is the performance gain when tweaking with BIOS in this situation? Another example, some graphic cards have some of their pixel pipelines disabled but with another BIOS, people can gain a lot more performance from their graphic chip by unlocking the pipelines.
I don't know whether Barcelona is crippled by BIOS or not and I also don't know whether the chip will be competitive or not but there is a slight possibility that the CPU is not fully supported by the BIOS yet and because of this the performance is not very good.
I thing that I do know is AMD is quite good at keeping everything under cover just like HD2900XT, why do they keep everything under cover? Who knows, maybe the performance is not very good like the HD 2900XT or maybe not but I think that I'll wait for official reviews first before saying I told you so...
I'm not an expert like you but let me ask you something, how do people overclock their CPU? They change the BIOS settings like FSB clock, CPU multiplier and etc. How high is the performance gain when tweaking with BIOS in this situation? Another example, some graphic cards have some of their pixel pipelines disabled but with another BIOS, people can gain a lot more performance from their graphic chip by unlocking the pipelines.
I don't know whether Barcelona is crippled by BIOS or not and I also don't know whether the chip will be competitive or not but there is a slight possibility that the CPU is not fully supported by the BIOS yet and because of this the performance is not very good.
I thing that I do know is AMD is quite good at keeping everything under cover just like HD2900XT, why do they keep everything under cover? Who knows, maybe the performance is not very good like the HD 2900XT or maybe not but I think that I'll wait for official reviews first before saying I told you so...
I never said that. Ofcourse *in theory* it could be possible.
I'm just saying that the BIOS used for the benchmarks is not *that* crippled.
If they can't even get basic things like multipliers right, they're incompetent.
We're talking about CPU and motherboard manufacturers here, they have all the specs, and this is core-business for them.
Besides, as I said many times before, the CPUs are built to be upwardly compatible from Am2 or Socket F. There isn't any incompatibility at this level.
I'm telling you, it's all about the clockspeed/thermal issues. Anything else just doesn't make sense.
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 5,862
I don't only mean multiplier, FSB and such but also other features as well like in my GPU pipeline analogy. Maybe there is something about instruction fetching that is not fully supported or maybe something about memory mirroring, who knows. I would still wait for official reviews and official price to be released before making any judgement.
Are you a religious man?
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 5,862
Do you have access to the platform used for the test?
If I did, do you think I was allowed to tell you?
So that's a no then?
coldpower27
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2005
- Messages
- 1,154
Yes, technology like math works logically. But your dealing with people who are affected by emotions, the people here aren't emotionless robots, constantly reiterating your an expert will just make you come off as an ass, regardless of how smart you are. If you don't want people insulting you, there are better ways of presenting information that doesn't immediately come off as abrasive.
coldpower27
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2005
- Messages
- 1,154
Scientia is quite biased toward AMD as well, Sharikou is just a idiot AMD fanboy, Scientia doesn't post completely outlandish claims but he is still very pro-AMD.
I will tell you one thing, you probably won't remember anyone that is actually moderate on the issues of AMD and Intel as someone like that isn't atagonizing and will just easily get swept under the rug and forgotten.
coldpower27
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2005
- Messages
- 1,154
To address the original topic regarding 1.6GHZ Barecelona's being demoed, this is very worrying and doesn't instill much confidence in my book this late in the game. Barcelona is due to be shipped sometime in July/August last time I checked, I just can't believe performance is just at Kentsfield's level "per clock" this late in a game.
The Cinebench results are even more worrying as that is a benchmark that AMD typically does well in.
I really hope for AMD's sake that they can get something out and soon, as they have been taking quite a beating in terms of finances the past few quarters.
The Cinebench results are even more worrying as that is a benchmark that AMD typically does well in.
I really hope for AMD's sake that they can get something out and soon, as they have been taking quite a beating in terms of finances the past few quarters.
Manny Calavera
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2004
- Messages
- 3,986
We a long time ago,had a few Intel employee's on the [H] one was banned by Kyle for posting a link to TOm's,the other just stopped posting.
No,its thanks to AMDati.
Haha, right. I'm sure you work for Intel and know all, how foolish of me.
Highly debateable. There are no set schedules for ES samples to my knowledge for anyone, AMD or Intel. My general informed impression is either you're "in the loop" with a company and MIGHT get one or several ESs to test or you're not on the "list", much less having a clue when said company gets one.
Read Scientia's Blog to get a far better picture of AMD's situation IMHO, he's been far more accurate about AMD's situation in the past than most people.(present company included) He seems to think they will need one more stepping to solve the current problems they have and that will most likely be the first production run of silicon at release.
To my knowledge as well, ES samples are almost ALWAYS crippled in some form or fashion Scali, whether they are limited by frequency or via massive BIOS patches on the motherboard, neither AMD or Intel are exempt to this dilemma. Don't be so naive.
You know, only the truly desperate fanboy would resort to crazy conspiracy theories about whether the conroe demos in March 06 were rigged. They weren't because there was absolutely no reason to rig a damn thing, as everyone knows by now. The thing was a genuine *underclocked* C2D, and it was not water cooled, contrary to claims made by scientia and the looney farm over at amdzone.
I read scientia's blog. Watercooling and 800mhz ceiling on early conroe? That guy has some imagination. He obviously doesn't work in the field. He doesn't even know how steppings work, he makes up random timeframes. LOL. Anyways, let's put it this way, given the public schedule announcements, the speed bins are pretty much finalized.
In regards to crippled ES, sure they can be crippled. Three months before release on a B step? That's just a screwup.
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 5,862
It is better to wait until the final product is released, until then everything is just a speculation to me
Manny Calavera
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2004
- Messages
- 3,986
When to start seriously worrying.....
Monkey God
Mangina Full of Sand
- Joined
- May 7, 2007
- Messages
- 6,723
What a ridiculously low content article.
And yet again people linking to Ed.... If you keep linking to Ed... People might start thinking something is wrong....
Manny Calavera
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2004
- Messages
- 3,986
Does the truth hurt ? Obviously it does.Its not one of Ed's most shining moments,but still.I see Ruiz was playing the violin again at this years conference.Why was Intel not invited to offer a rebuttal ? Hector should stick to playing the guitar,or shut up and deliver some product already,and stop whining.I will be rebuilding my main system late next month,and will have to buy a new mobo,and new cpu.Where is Barecelona ? AMDati wants me to wait until Q1 08 to do that !? No thanks.
How can you tell? As much as I've read, all of his "articles" deserve a good double-flush.
EternityZX9
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2004
- Messages
- 236
No it does not. While logically your statement makes sense this is not the case with how AMD does things. This same "trend" of horrible news, "the approaching death of AMD" libeled across the internet, terrible ES samples yields, and BIOS problems right up until the final processors were release is exactly what we saw when AMD was coming out with the K8 processors.
Now tell me...how well did that turn out?
Remember folks history can repeat itself.
Now that doesn't mean it's going to happen, but it can. To say that AMD has no to little chance of success (like some people here) is utter horsecrap.
Well, how comforted you are by K8 depends on how you interpret what happened. I look at K8 and see that it was AMD being in the right place at the right time. It had a good product to be sure but perhaps as important is that Intel had a lousy product (Pentium 4). Furthermore, it was incapable of admitting P4 was bad so it couldn't fix its problem. Today, circumstances seem very different. We can only speculate about the strength of AMD's new chip but we know Intel's product is good and only getting better so I don't think the conditions that made K8's success possible exist anymore.
It's convoluted and doesnt make any sense. By the same warped logic it could also be said that they BOTH have bad products. AMD's is just worse. neither of them can fix it becouse they dont know it's bad. Sadly that may actually be the truth. They both suck ass in the big picture. At least when compared with ATi's architecture, or nVidia's, or Suns, or IBM's, or Motorolas, or HP's.... Come to think about it, Intels products are freakin garbage. They suck ass.
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 5,862
I look at C2D and see that it was Intel being in the right place at the right time. It had a good product to be sure but perhaps as important is that AMD had a lousy product (Athlon X2). Furthermore, it was incapable of admitting X2 was bad so it couldn't fix its problem. Also I look at P4 Northwood and see that it was Intel being in the right place at the right time. It had a good product to be sure but perhaps as important is that AMD had a lousy product (Athlon XP). Furthermore, it was incapable of admitting K7 was bad so it couldn't fix its problem.
I look at C2D and see that it was Intel being in the right place at the right time. It had a good product to be sure but perhaps as important is that AMD had a lousy product (Athlon X2). Furthermore, it was incapable of admitting X2 was bad so it couldn't fix its problem. Also I look at P4 Northwood and see that it was Intel being in the right place at the right time. It had a good product to be sure but perhaps as important is that AMD had a lousy product (Athlon XP). Furthermore, it was incapable of admitting K7 was bad so it couldn't fix its problem.
How are Athlon X2 and Athlon XP lousy products? At the time of its launch, the X2 thoroughly trounced anything Intel had to offer (which was the Pentium D at that time). Just making a blanket statement like that seems pretty ridiculous.
If your case for saying it's lousy is that now there is a product on the market that is better, than every single processor ever released was lousy. Every single one. The Pentium, Pentium Pro, Pentium 2, Pentium III, Itanium, Xeon, Athlon 64, Thunderbird, Duron, Cyrix, Sparc, etc, etc etc. They are all lousy when compared to the performance king of today.
The Athlon X2 was (and is) a great product. It may not be the performance king but it is a pretty damn good processor.
I'm looking forward to more "lousy" products in the future, considering that the "lousy" products pretty much kicked processor development into high gear instead of just redlining the engine in neutral.