MW2, No Dedicated Servers, PB, 9v9 limit, leaning, etc etc

Katalysis said:
Way to totally miss the point.

Console shooter, single player and online (MW2) -> Ported to PC with console style MP = should be no surprise, should be no whining.

Online only, PC only (or primarily), multiplayer-only shooter -> suddenly without dedicated servers = massive whining justified.

If you can't see the difference, I don't know what more I can do. If they ported Halo 3 to PC and it had Xbox 360 style matchmaking, would you call it an outrage and say they turned their back on the community?
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Every CoD on PC before this one has had dedicated servers even if they were on consoles too, it was to be expected that it had them. CoD4 was a console port too but still had dedicated servers, I think you're missing the point.
 
I'm sure like many, I was going to buy this for the MP. Now it's really just a SP game and probably a short one at that. I'll pass.

I also agree that it's going to be pirated to no end. The incentive for many to buy a game like this is for the MP experience, to get a valid CD key.

They might as well just give the PC version away for free.
 
S3th13 said:
With the PC gaming communities luck, their lack of sales will end up being more justification for developers to produce ported shit rather than create actual PC games. "The revenue doesn't support further development" or some bs like that.
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I get what you're saying. It sounds like a vicious cycle and I do take it seriously; but I think it's fair to say that deep in the back of everyone's mind, we know this is a cop out for lazy, incompetent and apathetic developers.

We've all seen the successes of highly profitable PC games like Crysis, Empire: total war, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Team Fortress 2. Even dark horse candidates like The Witcher and Sins of a solar Empire. Maybe I'm overly optimistic but I think as long as PC gamers are willing to game, there will be developers and publishers who acknowledge that a well developed game, can be profitable on this platform. I think also that we can re-enforce this fact by speaking with our wallets. Expectations are high for Borderlands and BC2, so lets take a good look at those games as possible alternatives to MW2.
 
They know they are under fire. Cod isn't Cod without the big epic battles. 16 is way too little. Without dedicated servers though no ones going to be playing over 4-6 players. Ever played nazi zombies on world at war...it lags just with 4 people on one guys connection.


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I guess what I am saying is that it is more acceptable to play a game of DOTA with about 100 ping, but I could not play COD with that kind of ping.
 
I think the guys over at EA are enjoying all this hate directed towards IW rather than them lol.
 
I keep seeing the same question asked in every discussion I come across: Why not have matchmaking and dedicated servers? I think the answer is in future DLC. Activision wants to *exploit* every IP in every possible way. By killing dedicated servers they hope to kill the mod community which will force users to pay for content.

Penny-Arcade said it best:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/12/5/
 
Well I for one wont be playing this. I wont connect to a cod 4 server unless there are at least 30 people on it. And my regular server Dallas domination is always full. I love it. Im not going to play on 12 man laggy ass severs just to passify all the care bears.
 
The amount of cheating in the PC version is borderline ZERO on PB enabled servers.

PB probably catches almost every single public cheat there is, sometimes it gets updates multiple times in a day. It has its (sometimes annoying) quirks, but it works.

The skill range on PC is always going to be potentially enormous vs the console. Some people are hilariously good. Go watch some Quakecon finals or something and tell me if you don't shit yourself at how good people can possibly be at games on the PC. Such is life, but people can't justify losing any other way than cheating on the PC it seems.

I've seen maybe a couple cheaters tops in COD2 -> COD4 with over 1000 hours total clocked between both. Really, the only cheats that work are the ones you have to pay for. There's exploits in the game yes, but PB can't do anything about it, only admins can.

A good example is throw a grenade at a friendly, go into spec. BOOM. They die (effectively a teamkill, works with FF off even) and you get points! Do this a couple times and I guarantee people will be calling you a cheater. Hacks? No. Broken mechanic that has existed since COD1? Yes.
 
after what happened with demi-god i understand any move any or steps a publishe or devloper takes to combat piracy, no matter how annoying.
 
ikarinokami said:
after what happened with demi-god i understand any move any or steps a publishe or devloper takes to combat piracy, no matter how annoying.
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From what I understand Demi-God multiplayer didn't even work and even legit people were using Hamachi to play.
 
SixtyWattMan said:
From what I understand Demi-God multiplayer didn't even work and even legit people were using Hamachi to play.
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it didn't work because pirates were allowed to log on, and it was insane the figure between legit and pirated copies. I'm pretty sure that incident scared the pants of every developer, even I was floored at the piracy rate. I know stardock tried to pretend it was no big deal, but I think they too were stunned at the piracy numbers.
 
Matchmaking isn't a bad idea, but you don't have to ditch dedicated servers to implement it. I would have thought that a matchmaking service on the PC would simply automatically find a good dedicated server for you to play on based on the skill of the players in it. It would be an almost trivial algorithm to implement. If fact I do believe I have come across games with this feature before.It would be an excellent method for populating other size empty servers.

I don't think his point about new players is correct. I installed MW last week for the first time and accumulated about 250 kills with a 1:1 kill death ratio in my first hour and a half of play, and would have done even better if I had been familiar with the maps I was playing on. I am a very casual gamer. As an electrical engineering student I have not been able to invest any significant amount of time into any game in years, and have never been more than average in online play.

I'm not sure why they think this will help piracy; tf2 and cs:s are pirated quite a lot. And as had been mentioned before, just because ~50% of your player base may have pirated the game probably much, much less than that number would have actually bought the game, so I'm not sure what they would even be shooting for here.
 
Well if you guys are boycotting please please please don't go around insulting/questioning people for not boycotting and/or advocating piracy.

If piracy takes lead instead of the boycott message all everyone, that is part of the boycott, will have done is saved around 60 bucks. Piracy spiking on PC will only reinforce doubts about the platform.

I can't claim to be part of this boycott simply because I haven't even played the first Modern Warfare(it held its price for a LONG ass time, was hoping to catch it around 30 bucks) so I don't really see a reason to pick up MW2 without having played the prequel.

Anyway, I won't be giving you guys grief and though I feel weird for saying this since I didn't think too highly of the L4D2 boycotters, good luck to you all.
 
Kotaku had a podcast yesterday ( or today, not sure, didn't hear it live ) and had a large discussion about IWnet and the lack of dedicated servers. The two editors both agreed that there really is no reason why you can't have matchmaking and dedicated servers. The most interesting part was the people who called in, all three considered themselves "casual" gamers and they all had nothing but praise for matchmaking, some going so far as to call "hardcore" gamers ones who want to implement arbitrary rules such as " shoot only when crouched " ( sounds like he ran into a tactical realism server ) or no nades in the first 10 minutes.

It's kind of ridiculous but IW talks about not fracturing the community but it's already fractured and unfortunately, I'm starting to believe that the hardcore gamers are out numbered 10-1 maybe 20-1 against casual gamers. I will say this, I do find it funny how many people say that COD4 is running wild with hackers. I've played a lot of COD4 , granted not as many as my old clan mates ( who top over 1500+ hours) and we've never complained about hackers or even seen more than a handful.

Overall, this lack of dedicated servers is a disturbing trend. IW won't take a huge hit on this, COD:MW2 will sell like crack and other companies will see it as a good reason to help them control and distribute their product.
 
socK said:
The amount of cheating in the PC version is borderline ZERO on PB enabled servers.

PB probably catches almost every single public cheat there is, sometimes it gets updates multiple times in a day. It has its (sometimes annoying) quirks, but it works.
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this, i get banned a lot, im at almost a 2.2 K : D ratio.

I have only seen 2 cheaters that i can remember. How can they even fathom saying "Rampant" cheating.
 
yeah, I keep hearing about cheating this and cheating that and I can't really see it. I've been kicked and banned so many times because people mistake playing styles of cheating. I mean, I thought most gamers used a headset and set it up to hear footsteps. If you have an idiot running around making lots of noise, it's easy to "track" them through the walls. The one thing I notice the most is that people calling others hackers are usually the ones with miserable K/D ratios, like usually someone who is 1:5 or lower. I've never seen the top player in the server call someone out for hacking, but then again, according to so many, the top player is hacking. It's unfathomable that someone might be better than you! HACKER!
 
I was really looking forward to a new tactical shooter on the PC. I played the shit out of BF2 and CSS. I got burned out on the genre after that and completely ignored MW1. In the meantime I've been really enjoying TF2. If you're a PC FPS gamer, you've simply got to be a Valve fanboy at this point, especially given this news.

My burnout has subsided and I was ready to jump back in with MW2. But now the game is DOA. Sure, the single player experience is fun, but it's also short and lacks replay value given its mega-scripted nature. If the main campaign included true co-op, that could add some replay value, but IW apparently can't figure out how to make true co-op work in their games.

So there's a void right now in the tactical shooter genre on the PC. CSS and BF2 are good, but dated games. CSS has great shooting mechanics and just feels "right". But it's super simple and doesn't have any modern features like character customization, leveling, weapon outfitting, etc... Also, I can't stand waiting to spawn.

Valve has all the right infrastructure and knowledge to make something good happen. They should release a multiplayer-only PC FPS based on the Source engine. Include the modern features that are needed and it would be a great thing for Valve and PC gamers. I think I will sell them this idea for a million bucks.
 
Grentz said:
I love how dedicated servers is this huge deal to people that bash what they dont even know. Seriously, get over it. Most XBL games use P2P and most are VERY good. I have played a ton of Halo 2/3, COD games (2, 3, 4, 5), etc. without dedicated servers and they have progressed to the point of working just as well as dedicated servers IMO. Even with dedicated servers you still get lag, issues, connection problems, etc. I have played plenty of games with dedicated servers and seen it first hand.

Good P2P matchmaking picks a good host for all players, lag is minimal for all players, and fun commences. The only issue is when a host quits by turning off their console (when quitting most games will auto negotiate to the next best host).

I can see not having mods as a valid issue, or limited max players, but just bashing it because of high ping is not a good reason anymore as it really is not true.

You also buy and build your PC to play with better graphics, better controls, customization, etc. That is not lost at all.
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This perfectly sums up the situation. IW know they can do this because people like this will just accept it. Anyone who truly believes that stuff like CoD4 and Halo on Xbox Live will EVER measure up to PC FPS standards is delusional. Do you even know that every single last one of them has auto aim? Do you know why? Because you need it. One of the reasons is host advantage and ping. You cannot seriously say that GoW's P2P system didn't result in sub-par performance.

In conclusion, great job convincing IW that we're all as ignorant as the average 13 year old Xbox Live douche.
 
now that all the hype is over, we can all move on to better games where the devs actually consider PC gamers during development.

regardless of their motives, stripping a game of its PC qualities and then jacking up the price $10 is unacceptable and reeks of apathy towards their target-market. sorry, you cannot convince me that this move is geared towards a better customer when its primary intent is an attempt to prevent piracy and force users to buy official DLC, not to mention future titles when they shut down IWnet for older games (just like M$ and Halo 2).

i really can't wait for IWnet to experience massive downtime, then all the people that didn't understand the situation will be crying. i will be smiling on that day.
 
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http://twitpic.com/meid3

.
 
error-in-excellence said:
I was really looking forward to a new tactical shooter on the PC. I played the shit out of BF2 and CSS. I got burned out on the genre after that and completely ignored MW1. In the meantime I've been really enjoying TF2. If you're a PC FPS gamer, you've simply got to be a Valve fanboy at this point, especially given this news.

My burnout has subsided and I was ready to jump back in with MW2. But now the game is DOA. Sure, the single player experience is fun, but it's also short and lacks replay value given its mega-scripted nature. If the main campaign included true co-op, that could add some replay value, but IW apparently can't figure out how to make true co-op work in their games.

So there's a void right now in the tactical shooter genre on the PC. CSS and BF2 are good, but dated games. CSS has great shooting mechanics and just feels "right". But it's super simple and doesn't have any modern features like character customization, leveling, weapon outfitting, etc... Also, I can't stand waiting to spawn.

Valve has all the right infrastructure and knowledge to make something good happen. They should release a multiplayer-only PC FPS based on the Source engine. Include the modern features that are needed and it would be a great thing for Valve and PC gamers. I think I will sell them this idea for a million bucks.
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Why? Valve does everything humanly possible to kill CS1.6.
 
error-in-excellence said:
I didn't play CS 1.6, but I have had good experiences with CSS, DoDS, L4D, and TF2.

I do know that the Counter Strike community is fiercely conservative and that I'm not interested in the basic gameplay of Counter Strike in 2009.
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css is the exact same thing as 1.6 except for graphics. and ragdolls
 
evanisthecoastie said:
css is the exact same thing as 1.6 except for graphics. and ragdolls
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no, they are not the same at all...

not better graphic and physics...

the hitbox system and recoil is entirely different...

not mentioning the map is different too XD
 
GibsonEX said:
How is pirating this game going to help PC community? It can only get worse before it gets better. If PC community wants to make a stand, than they should not buy, pirate or play this game at all. At least that's what i intend to do.
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^^^ voice of reason, like many others in this thread that oppose piracy.
 
GibsonEX said:
How is pirating this game going to help PC community? It can only get worse before it gets better. If PC community wants to make a stand, than they should not buy, pirate or play this game at all. At least that's what i intend to do.
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lol? pirating? another troll?

btw, its "then" not "than"..
 
Just don't buy it if you want to send a message. Advocating piracy is stupid and puerile.
 
error-in-excellence said:
I was really looking forward to a new tactical shooter on the PC. I played the shit out of BF2 and CSS. I got burned out on the genre after that and completely ignored MW1. In the meantime I've been really enjoying TF2. If you're a PC FPS gamer, you've simply got to be a Valve fanboy at this point, especially given this news.

My burnout has subsided and I was ready to jump back in with MW...
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Exactly how feel. BF2 was digital crack and after finally burning out I picked up TF2 which meant a total relapse. I was hoping MW2 would tide me over until BF3 arrives.

I've been playing on modded servers for so long I don't even notice that I ONLY play on modded servers. Sometimes you got to take a stand, even if it means never playing MW2 we have to prove a point.
 
KENNYB said:
Exactly how feel. BF2 was digital crack and after finally burning out I picked up TF2 which meant a total relapse. I was hoping MW2 would tide me over until BF3 arrives.

I've been playing on modded servers for so long I don't even notice that I ONLY play on modded servers. Sometimes you got to take a stand, even if it means never playing MW2 we have to prove a point.
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Between you and me, there's obviously a market out there for a real PC tactical FPS. :D

I will keep an eye on Bad Company 2. Hopefully it doesn't have the same dedicated server issue that BF2 had with the ranked servers requiring deals with special providers. My BF2 community got screwed by the ranked server business because we had our own provider that wasn't part of the whole EA "approved" thing.
 
ikarinokami said:
after what happened with demi-god i understand any move any or steps a publishe or devloper takes to combat piracy, no matter how annoying.
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Well aren't you the blind and loyal follower people just love to steal money from repeatably! :rolleyes:
 
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jonneymendoza said:
Don't quote me, I'm advocating piracy
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piracy always there..

not mentioning some research actually found piracy helps the sales increase..

and plus, CoD4 was sold really well on PC, except that console-402-boy keeps talk crap on it...
 
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