MW2, No Dedicated Servers, PB, 9v9 limit, leaning, etc etc

samduhman said:
PC gaming tards. DO NOT BUY THE CONSOLE VERSION if you PC game. You are sending IW and Activision the wrong message. Do not buy the game at all. Show them how you feel by giving them NOTHING!

IF you must have the console version wait and buy it used.
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If I was an informed PC gamer interested in MW2, I would rush out and get a console version to play it. I am sure that on launch, the wounded legion of oppressed "hardcore" PC gamers will flood onto the servers and start bitching "Fuck IW!" and "FUCKING LAG, DEDICATED SERVERS FTW!!!"
 
Netrat33 said:
Why discount any PC game? That's just silly right there. But fine your saying pc games suck so that's why they can't sell? Good argument. Way to support the platform :rolleyes: Btw, other games that sold pretty well that did break great numbers were Diablo 2, Half Life, Half life 2, Guidwars, heck even the witcher came pretty close. For a "modern" game at least. Most of those games had some sort of "accounting" that a user had to be responsible for (you can take that as any form of DRM like steam). There are a handful of games that easily should have sold more on the pc.
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The reason I discounted The Sims is because its target audience is very different, it's the same reason why I don't consider the Wii to be competing with the 360 and PS3. People may choose between a 360 or a PS3, but I don't see many people saying "I'm getting the Wii because it does everything the 360 does and it has all these great Wii exclusive titles". I said "PC exclusive" doesn't really exist anymore, not that PC games suck(although many of them do, their console brethren are typically the same game, and thus not to my liking). If you're developing Civ 4, you're in a great position, but if you're developing Call of Duty of course you're going to sell more copies to the casuals. I know how many copies those games sold, I did look it up(before I posted my initial reply to you, actually.) Diablo 2 and Half-Life aren't exactly new, now are they? Even Half-Life 2 is five years old. So you've got Guildwars and the Witcher? That's what you're coming back with? Go look at the top ten lists for PS3 and 360, see how new the games are, and try to see why I don't consider your argument to carry any weight.

haha are you f'ing serious? You HONESTLY think the reason the PS2 had good sales BECAUSE...it was easy to pirate on them. Haha! Yea it's not easier to pirate on a PC right? So take those 120 million people with ps2's, I'll be generous and say half of those bought it to pirate :)rolleyes:) 60 million people pirating. Now take PC owners...actually this whole argument is stupid right after I said 60 million people are buying ps2's for pirating because it's SO much easier for consoles. Those games sold well because of the 120 million+ units sold! Not everyone is going to like GTA. So you have a target audience in that group that likes those games. I'm pretty sure there are 120 million pcs capable of playing games. Oh hell there are more! And most people aren't as anal about full graphic settings let most people on this forum.
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I'm not sure I should bother replying to this as it's as strawman as strawmen get. However, I'll at the very least clarify that many people chose to purchase a PS2 based on the fact that you could easily pirate the games for it, them being printed on DVD's. You don't have to believe me, but that's not the point. In no way did I indicate or even imply that the reason the PS2 sold well is because it was easy to pirate for. It likely sold *better* because it was easy to pirate for, but that is not the sole reason for its sales and I did not say it was either implicitly or explicitly.

As to the last couple sentences, that doesn't really matter since you'd also need that many people who wanted to play games on their PC's. When have PC games *ever* sold as well as console games? That's my argument. Come back when you can argue my actual point, not the one you make up.


hah yes, I don't have to do anythign to any console to get a pirate game to work. Not like at my fingertips for PC game. Honestly man. :rolleyes:
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Have you ever read the questions people ask on torrent sites? "What's this .rar stuff?" "What's with these files they're just .001-.075?" "Ok I extracted it but what do I do I double clicked on it and nothing happened?" "This game doesn't work, I installed it and it says I need to have the disc in the drive." The average computer user has no idea how to get a pirated game working on their system. With a PS2 it was as easy as swapping a disc out, or sticking a usb drive in the front. I won't argue that that's not still too complicated for some people, but you're out of your mind if you think it's simpler on the PC.

and it sold better on Wiiware. Oh until they decided to give the game away for a penny. You act like indie devs wont want to migrate once they see how much better they are respected on the other side. Stardock has come out a few times and mentioned how pissed they are about pirating less you forget about the whole Demigods ordeal.
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Of course it sold better on Wiiware. I bought it for the Wii instead of the PC? I'm not sure what your argument is, aside from casual platforms are better at selling casual games. In that case, we agree on something. Stardock doesn't *like* piracy, but their attitude towards it is that it isn't something you can prevent. They had a lot to say about it regarding their sales figures of GalCiv2 and Sins of a Solar Empire. I'm not going to bother looking it up.

Doesn't matter anyway because like you said "can't recall the last *good* PC exclusive I played" and games like Machinarium deverse to be obscure and/or pirated right?
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Does Machinarium deserve to be obscure? Absolutely. I'd venture to say the developers might have known this when they made the game. Deserves to be pirated, though? When did I say that? My point is it won't be a giant blockbuster title, not because 4,700,000 people will pirate it instead of buying it but because only a small number of people will even be interested/know what it is. That's by virtue of the nature of the game, not because PC users are filthy pirates.

And ONCE AGAIN: I'm not saying piracy is the sole reason why devs are starting to treat pc customers like crap. But this community needs to take a look at itself more and take some responsibility. One thing I LOOOOVE about hardforums is it's strong stance against posting anythign about suggesting pirating, even cracks to remove copy protection or anything. THAT'S an active stance against and quite vocal about it.
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I'm saying that piracy is in no way *the* reason why any given studio or title has failed. Anymore piracy is always ALWAYS blamed for games failing, and I'm getting tired of it. When MW2 doesn't sell as well as they hoped and is inevitably pirated, do you think IW or Activision will seriously consider any reason for the failure outside of piracy? I don't. Until I see it happen, I won't.
 
BETA. said:
no prestige edition for PC
no dedicated servers
no modding support
no console commands
no leaning
ONLY 9v9
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i know this horse has been beaten to a pulp and there isn't a need to keep wasting thread space....

but srsly....FAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKK!!!

are you serious?!?! we are getting so shafted it's devastating... disheartening for sure.
 
Draax said:
And you feel comparing your life to IW's decision to not go with dedicated servers is an apt comparison? :rolleyes: This over-dramatic, end of the world, petition signing mentality is exactly what I was addressing.
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It is an apt comparison because it demonstrates the same point succinctly, why go backwards instead of forwards? What possible reason is there for this? If you do not understand the potential ramifications this may have for our hobby then I suggest you read this blog at 1up instead of being so dismissive:

http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9007704&publicUserId=6082506

And over dramatic? People are simply expressing their discontent in relation to something which they consider important, if you have a problem with that you better stop reading forums and cancel your internet connection
 
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Spewn said:
The reason I discounted The Sims is because its target audience is very different, it's the same reason why I don't consider the Wii to be competing with the 360 and PS3. ... Diablo 2 and Half-Life aren't exactly new, now are they? Even Half-Life 2 is five years old. So you've got Guildwars and the Witcher? That's what you're coming back with? Go look at the top ten lists for PS3 and 360, see how new the games are, and try to see why I don't consider your argument to carry any weight.
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I'm cleaning up the quote trail a bit because, even though I'm guilty of the "long quote post," I do rather hate them :) Not disregarding your other comments. Your coming back about saying how PC exclusive games don't ever sell as well as a console exclusive. It's obviously happened before and happened with a few more games too. Those are just picked mostly from memory. I know Crysis also broke the 1 million mark and a few others but I'm saying there should be more PC games that do that just because PC gaming is just another platform like any console. It has just as many people looking to game on it. With the amount of users playing WoW, there's clearly a market to grab. But why don't other PC games have more success? I don't have more recent games to comeback with is the sad point that I'm making.
As to the last couple sentences, that doesn't really matter since you'd also need that many people who wanted to play games on their PC's. When have PC games *ever* sold as well as console games? That's my argument. Come back when you can argue my actual point, not the one you make up.
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It just seems ridiculous to me that if you think console piracy is worse than PC, why aren't devs bitching about it as loudly? You'd think they'd be more angry because either way they have to pay royalties to microsoft, nintendo, AND sony.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ubisoft-pc-piracy-cannibalising-console-sales
This link is just one example but you obviously hear it billiions of times over. Why aren't they complaining about the mass quantities it's losing from the console piracy?
 
Netrat33 said:
I'm cleaning up the quote trail a bit because, even though I'm guilty of the "long quote post," I do rather hate them :) Not disregarding your other comments. Your coming back about saying how PC exclusive games don't ever sell as well as a console exclusive. It's obviously happened before and happened with a few more games too. Those are just picked mostly from memory. I know Crysis also broke the 1 million mark and a few others but I'm saying there should be more PC games that do that just because PC gaming is just another platform like any console. It has just as many people looking to game on it. With the amount of users playing WoW, there's clearly a market to grab. But why don't other PC games have more success? I don't have more recent games to comeback with is the sad point that I'm making.

It just seems ridiculous to me that if you think console piracy is worse than PC, why aren't devs bitching about it as loudly? You'd think they'd be more angry because either way they have to pay royalties to microsoft, nintendo, AND sony.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ubisoft-pc-piracy-cannibalising-console-sales
This link is just one example but you obviously hear it billiions of times over. Why aren't they complaining about the mass quantities it's losing from the console piracy?
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Stop talking trash thats lies and propaganda. Consoles have way more piracy its just they still make a lot of money off it. Its not even the piracy thats the problem here. Its all because they make more money from consoles thats through downloads and crap now. Piracy is just a stupid excuse to push everyone to consoles so can be locked in to pay for new content. Next thing you know you'll be paying each company a monthly fee for playing online. Consolers are just sheep, any company can just do whatever they want and the idiots will just buy it regardless of what it is. They are thinking about the money too much. If only they made rememberable good games AAA titles that had original content then they would get even more money. These companies need to wake up. We are the customers and we buy what we want and not what they want us to buy.
 
Hmmm... Some PS3 games had people pay the developer for online play, though not any good games.
 
Netrat33 said:
I'm cleaning up the quote trail a bit because, even though I'm guilty of the "long quote post," I do rather hate them :) Not disregarding your other comments. Your coming back about saying how PC exclusive games don't ever sell as well as a console exclusive. It's obviously happened before and happened with a few more games too. Those are just picked mostly from memory. I know Crysis also broke the 1 million mark and a few others but I'm saying there should be more PC games that do that just because PC gaming is just another platform like any console. It has just as many people looking to game on it. With the amount of users playing WoW, there's clearly a market to grab. But why don't other PC games have more success? I don't have more recent games to comeback with is the sad point that I'm making.
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That's not what I said. My point of bringing up old console blockbusters is to show two things. First, that even the biggest and best console games of today do not sell anywhere near the biggest and best of old. Second, that the best PC sales figures(outside of, that I know of, ONE freak anomaly, which is why I said The Sims doesn't count, exceptions don't make rules) pale in comparison to the best Console sales figures and pretty much always have.

It just seems ridiculous to me that if you think console piracy is worse than PC, why aren't devs bitching about it as loudly? You'd think they'd be more angry because either way they have to pay royalties to microsoft, nintendo, AND sony.
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First, I'm not saying that piracy on the 360 is necessarily worse than on PC. What I am saying is that I think it's a lot worse than a lot of people seem to realize. I'm saying that by the time the next-gen systems are coming out, I'd be very surprised in priacy numbers on the 360 didn't surpass the PC. Note; I'm talking piracy numbers, NOT piracy *rates*. Very different animals. As well, the issue really comes down to whether or not piracy actually affects sales. The main point I'm trying to make through all of that is that it's just as easy if not often easier to pirate games for a console, yet the sales figures aren't hurt. This, IMO, flies in the face of Publishers who want to make it "harder" to pirate on the PC via DRM to decrease piracy rates.

Why aren't the Devs bitching about it? I see your point about royalties, but isn't that supposed to be the reason why Console titles are more expensive? I'd still argue that the lack of/lower post-launch support costs and overall typical higher sales numbers outweigh that by more than enough. As I've said before, the PC arena tends to be a more demanding market and often a game that appeals to legions of Console fans won't be enough for PC Gamers. Halo comes to mind.

Besides, most of the time it's not Developers we hear from anyway, but Publishers. And as we've seen from what's happening with IW and MW2 on PC, there are times when neither of them is really in-touch with what's actually going on. The fake game-box that lists things like "no lean" and "mouse support" as features on the front makes a good point IMO. Who from the PC gaming camp was asking for these features? It's their product, and they can do what they want with it, but we don't have to like it. If you design a product without considering your market, it's your own fault if and when you fail.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/ubisoft-pc-piracy-cannibalising-console-sales
This link is just one example but you obviously hear it billiions of times over. Why aren't they complaining about the mass quantities it's losing from the console piracy?
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I won't pretend to have all the answers. The point is that they tend to make more money from Console titles(or at least achieve higher sales numbers), and thus until we have blockbuster Console titles which actually fail to produce we won't see anyone complaining about their failure. Piracy is an easy excuse to explain why your game didn't sell well in a more demanding market.

I will of course concede not being able to remember any good PC exclusives I'd played lately. I've had more time to think and I can remember a few. None of them are the type of game I would expect to sell as well as Halo, though. I don't imagine Stardock spends nearly as much money on advertising as Microsoft, either. Stardock is also of the opinion that more restrictive DRM will not help the problem, and that pirates cannot typically be converted into sales. 2DBoy feels the same way, and went so far as to quote a conversion rate of 1/1000(NB: It might be worse than that, that's off the top of my head) regarding DRM's effectiveness. That is, one out of every one-thousand potential pirates would purchase the game because the DRM was too difficult to bypass.

Why this thread about MW2 has gone this far into a discussion of piracy is beyond me. It should suffice to say that I feel this topic is mostly done with(though feel free to reply, I'd like to hear your conclusion as well), as I think we've pretty much summed up our opinions and positions. That said, if MW2 sells poorly on PC after all of this drama on-line about it, do you really think IW and Activision won't blame Piracy?
 
http://www.fpsadmin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18932

Many members of the media have been trying to get a hold of Infinity Ward to clarify their decisions regarding the PC port of Modern Warfare 2. Kotaku managed to get the developer's community manager Robert Bowling on the horn but unfortunately he didn't address the issues PC gamers have had with the upcoming shooter directly (no dedicated servers, no word on mod support, etc). Instead Bowling generalized their decisions regarding the PC version, saying once again they wanted to make the game more accessible to the average player. He dismissed the people who have complained about the changes as a loud minority saying, "We have 14 million players on Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. The hardcore gamers make up a smaller core of that, and PC gamers are the smallest group of that core. It is a very vocal community and they are all online."Bowling also feels that because their community is so highly invested in their games, " . . . we should justify every design decision to them." However he also feels that the developer shouldn't be held to those demands completely, saying, "We know our game very well. Some of the stuff you have to put in there and have faith in your design. Some things don't sound good out of context. You don't see the beauty of them until you experience them for yourselves." When asked if the next Modern Warfare game would even be made for the PC, Bowing dodged the question saying that they don't know what their next game will be.
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the beauty of 100+ pings and likely much worse thanks to P2P hosting, yeah, it's impossible to take that out of context, we tried that with L4D, once I played the L4D2 demo and got into a P2P game instead of a dedicated server game, I saw firsthand what MW2's P2P multiplayer would be like.

NO THANKS!!!

No dedicated servers, no purchase

no mods, no purchase

Desecrating a PC game by infecting it with console-itis, NO PURCHASE

Describing "PC featuers" as "graphics options, mouse + keyboard support" and expecting us to be grateful for that, NO PURCHASE

Removing all kinds of features that made it in CoD4 that are essential to the PC gamer's multiplayer experience, NO PURCHASE

Forgetting who made you who you are today, the PC GAMER COMMUNITY, NO PURCHASE


cliff's notes: IW + Acticrap Blizztard makes + dumb decision = another boycotter joining the sea of PC gamers heeding the call of duty to stand together against this crap

BTW, first post!
 
NO DEDICATED SERVERS!!! WHAT IS THIS NAZI GERMANY!? SINCE WHEN DID THE RUSSIANS TAKE OVER!!?!?!?!?

I understand the ramifications, but it's time to calm down, take a Zanex or whatever and buy something else!
 
If concerned gamers don't protest poor decisions it may be they have nothing else worthy to buy for very long. If a favored dev makes a poor decision their customers should let them know. There isn't an endless supply of triple-A devs.
 
Conker said:
Stop talking trash thats lies and propaganda. Consoles have way more piracy its just they still make a lot of money off it. Its not even the piracy thats the problem here. Its all because they make more money from consoles thats through downloads and crap now. Piracy is just a stupid excuse to push everyone to consoles so can be locked in to pay for new content. Next thing you know you'll be paying each company a monthly fee for playing online. Consolers are just sheep, any company can just do whatever they want and the idiots will just buy it regardless of what it is. They are thinking about the money too much. If only they made rememberable good games AAA titles that had original content then they would get even more money. These companies need to wake up. We are the customers and we buy what we want and not what they want us to buy.
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Yet again this nat guy gets put to place. embarrassing lol
 
Tejstar said:
Got mine this morning too (via CoolShop). Can't install either SP or MP; it won't confirm the serial key when you try to install for the first time.

I'm slightly concerned that on the back of the case it says "Not for sale in UK". I hope this doesn't give me problems installing this with Steam. Region-based serial keys have been a problem on Steam before...
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Originally Posted by jonneymendoza View Post
No wonder why it cost £25. their is always a catch hehe. 2 disks? why? the game is only 4 hours long!
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The extra disc is for the mouse control, text chat and graphics options
 
They say, "any advertising is good advertising." And in this case it's as true as ever.

I am tempted to go buy this game at launch just like every other cod game for pc.

People have talked about this game so much that I just got to see what all this holla is about.

I'll post a video of me paying with my money and coming home with my new mw2 pc disk and rub it all up in your faces!!
 
JHefile said:
Sorry but, with all this advertising you guys are doing i just can't help myself. I have to see what this is all about.
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We made it a deal to hope people won't buy the game. Anyone buying this game is supporting the actions taken by IW. Thanks for the support.
 
JHefile said:
They say, "any advertising is good advertising." And in this case it's as true as ever.

I am tempted to go buy this game at launch just like every other cod game for pc.

People have talked about this game so much that I just got to see what all this holla is about.

I'll post a video of me paying with my money and coming home with my new mw2 pc disk and rub it all up in your faces!!
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Why not record some in game footage with the games on record function as well? Oh wait you can't because you don't have console access. Why not just play it on PS3 with kb/mouse, it will be the same experience. Hey we could all save lots of money on pc upgrades thou, so its not a total loss.
 
my worry is that if the pc version of MW2 sells poorly it will just give IW more reason for less support for MW2 and up coming titles for the pc.

we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. right or wrong they are clearly focused on the MS and the 360 and to a lesser degree the PS3.

up until all the crap started coming out from IW, MW2 was a day one midnight launch purchase for me because i really want to play the sp game. and then have the mp there for longevity as i did with cod4. but now i don't know if i am going to buy it at all.

we all know it is going to sell like mad on the 360 not sure about the ps3 and i think thats all IW and Activision want to see.

i don't think pc gaming is dead, but it just might be in the ambulance on the way to the ER.

i guess only time will tell.
 
teh reason why it wont sell wel on the ps3 is because half of the ps3 fanbase dont give a fuck about a average overpirced game when the likes of MAG will blow this game to bits
 
ocellaris said:
If I was an informed PC gamer interested in MW2, I would rush out and get a console version to play it. I am sure that on launch, the wounded legion of oppressed "hardcore" PC gamers will flood onto the servers and start bitching "Fuck IW!" and "FUCKING LAG, DEDICATED SERVERS FTW!!!"
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If you were an informed PC gamer, you wouldn't be interested in MW2. Your entire premise fails.
 
ha the "not balanced for lean" pics are hilarious...well done defiant007 :D
 
Mac[X-D];1034873612 said:
my worry is that if the pc version of MW2 sells poorly it will just give IW more reason for less support for MW2 and up coming titles for the pc.

we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. right or wrong they are clearly focused on the MS and the 360 and to a lesser degree the PS3.

up until all the crap started coming out from IW, MW2 was a day one midnight launch purchase for me because i really want to play the sp game. and then have the mp there for longevity as i did with cod4. but now i don't know if i am going to buy it at all.

we all know it is going to sell like mad on the 360 not sure about the ps3 and i think thats all IW and Activision want to see.

i don't think pc gaming is dead, but it just might be in the ambulance on the way to the ER.

i guess only time will tell.
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Why should we care whether IW will support and produce PC games in the future? With MW2 they've already shown they have their heads too far up their asses for us to care about anything they do. The only thing you should be worried about is if the PC version DOES sell well, other developers might follow suit in neutering their own games, much like Carmack is talking about.

That aside, I don't care about Rage, but to see a smart guy like Carmack say he's thinking of following in IW's footsteps...that really surprised me. And not in a good way. :(
 
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