MY sony 19" 12 ms

eastvillager · Aug 10, 2004

Traditional refresh rates mean very little to an LCD, because they're not refreshed in a repetitive manner like a CRT.

They turn the pixels on, they stay on until told otherwise(I believe), unlike the electron beam(s) in a CRT repeatedly exciting the phosphors in each pixel to keep it lit.

kamikazichaser · Aug 10, 2004

eastvillager said:
Traditional refresh rates mean very little to an LCD, because they're not refreshed in a repetitive manner like a CRT.

They turn the pixels on, they stay on until told otherwise(I believe), unlike the electron beam(s) in a CRT repeatedly exciting the phosphors in each pixel to keep it lit.

True, refresh has no meaning in the TFT context, but IF you use an analog connection, the driver is still accounting for refresh. It is possible to get some fuzziness due to this. A DVI connection will pretty much solve the problem. Even with analog, I haven't seen these kinds of problems for quite some time.

O'Doyle · Aug 10, 2004

Hey Aerobahn, first off, nice pics... It looks nice with your glass desk and matching Comp.

If it isn't any trouble, could you maybe take a few pics of games that you play. I would like to see how well it perform on games. I was looking at this LCD yesterday at Fry's and would like more examples

Also: I noticed yesterday that when looking at the desktop (on the demo display they had at Fry's) the letters were a bit jagged... I don't know how to explain it but it wasn't as crisp as some of the other displays... Could this be due to them maybe using the vga analog connection rather than DVI?

Sorry for any confusion.

While reading some words it appeared to be a bit blurry.. maybe it was just me or a bad display model

Is this the case with yours? Or maybe they enabled the CLEAR TYPE feature on XP?

Thanks for any info or pics that you can provide me.

Aerobahn · Aug 10, 2004

jamadaia said:
Did you know that TFTs are made to run ptimally at 60hz ?
And to be honest im not sure there is the correlation between FPS and Hz that your talking about, so I wouldnt make any rash moves as you might find its not even an issue.

I understand Refresh rates for LCD's mean Nothing. What i am talking about is Vsync. In order for a game to not display image tearing you enable Vsync which does not allow your fps to pass your monitors refresh rate. That and image tearing is much more noticeable on LCDs.

So that means All my games must use Vsync, there fore my Max FPS in games will be 60. 60 Frames is not bad by any means but haveing a MAX of 60 means it will dip below 60 more often than have a refresh rate of 75. Which is why I want a refresh rate of 75 purely for Vsync.

Why does 75 frames make a difference?

Frames will always fluctuate up and down no matter what. So haveing them fluctuate around 75-70ish ( considering your computer could maintain that amount) is much better than having it 60-55ish dipping below the 60pfs mark will look less smooth than dipping below 75.

Aerobahn · Aug 10, 2004

O'Doyle said:
Hey Aerobahn, first off, nice pics... It looks nice with your glass desk and matching Comp.

If it isn't any trouble, could you maybe take a few pics of games that you play. I would like to see how well it perform on games. I was looking at this LCD yesterday at Fry's and would like more examples

Also: I noticed yesterday that when looking at the desktop (on the demo display they had at Fry's) the letters were a bit jagged... I don't know how to explain it but it wasn't as crisp as some of the other displays... Could this be due to them maybe using the vga analog connection rather than DVI? Sorry for any confusion.

While reading some words it appeared to be a bit blurry.. maybe it was just me or a bad display model

Is this the case with yours? Or maybe they enabled the CLEAR TYPE feature on XP?

Thanks for any info or pics that you can provide me.

Using DVI right now and i 100% assure text is crisp and clear. i think text ( due to its larger pixel pitch) is one of this monitors strong points.

Also taking pics with my crappy digi cam of games will make the monitor look bad. And i dont want to give false impressions. Floor models are often misleading becuase they often just leave the monitors at default setings or at very strange ones. My sony out of the box did not look that great. It was too bright and it wasnt untill after loading the correct color profiles and calibrating it that the sony looked as good as it does now.

towert7 · Aug 10, 2004

Aerobahn said:
I understand Refresh rates for LCD's mean Nothing. What i am talking about is Vsync. In order for a game to not display image tearing you enable Vsync which does not allow your fps to pass your monitors refresh rate. That and image tearing is much more noticeable on LCDs.

So that means All my games must use Vsync, there fore my Max FPS in games will be 60. 60 Frames is not bad by any means but haveing a MAX of 60 means it will dip below 60 more often than have a refresh rate of 75. Which is why I want a refresh rate of 75 purely for Vsync.

Why does 75 frames make a difference?

Frames will always fluctuate up and down no matter what. So haveing them fluctuate around 75-70ish ( considering your computer could maintain that amount) is much better than having it 60-55ish dipping below the 60pfs mark will look less smooth than dipping below 75.

I know the specifics of Vsync with CRT's, but im not quite sure how it works on an LCD.

But, common sense for me seems to imply that Vsync on a LCD would create more ghosting...... and a worse game play.... is this correct?

and what is image tearing? With an LCD, i would think that without Vsync....... the game would tell the graphic card what to display, and the graphic card would process it and send it to the monitor, where the monitor will shut off / turn on what is needed........ as fast as possible. Vsync just seems to slow the process down for this "fake refresh".....

Is my assumption incorrect?

~Thanks

Aerobahn · Aug 10, 2004

towert7 said:
I know the specifics of Vsync with CRT's, but im not quite sure how it works on an LCD.

But, common sense for me seems to imply that Vsync on a LCD would create more ghosting...... and a worse game play.... is this correct?

and what is image tearing? With an LCD, i would think that without Vsync....... the game would tell the graphic card what to display, and the graphic card would process it and send it to the monitor, where the monitor will shut off / turn on what is needed........ as fast as possible. Vsync just seems to slow the process down for this "fake refresh".....

Is my assumption incorrect?

~Thanks

no..

O'Doyle · Aug 10, 2004

Aerobahn said:
Using DVI right now and i 100% assure text is crisp and clear. i think text ( due to its larger pixel pitch) is one of this monitors strong points.

Also taking pics with my crappy digi cam of games will make the monitor look bad. And i dont want to give false impressions. Floor models are often misleading becuase they often just leave the monitors at default setings or at very strange ones. My sony out of the box did not look that great. It was too bright and it wasnt untill after loading the correct color profiles and calibrating it that the sony looked as good as it does now.

Hmmm.. Thanks for answering I appreciate it. You're right maybe it was just that display model and how they presented it without tweaking it a bit.

<Random Rant>

Also, why don't stores set up a game (like Doom 3, Far Cry etc..) To :
1. Show off the quality of the monitors, how they perform, show ghosting, etc.
2. Advertise the game being played.

Let the customer experience the monitors before any purchase. I guarantee that this alone can give retailers a step up and maybe sell more Monitors, Computers, and softwares.. rather than customers just browsing. I mean really, how can you experience an LCD screen by just looking at the desktop icons or playing Pinball....

towert7 · Aug 10, 2004

O'Doyle said:
<Random Rant>
Also, why don't stores set up a game (like Doom 3, Far Cry etc..) To :
1. Show off the quality of the monitors, how they perform, show ghosting, etc.
2. Advertise the game being played.

Let the customer experience the monitors before any purchase. I guarantee that this alone can give retailers a step up and maybe sell more Monitors, Computers, and softwares.. rather than customers just browsing. I mean really, how can you experience an LCD screen by just looking at the desktop icons or playing Pinball....

Well you see, some stores have contracts with companies and they show off the company products..... or services.

What i mean is that, if your at best buy........... the monitor might be showing off an add for bestbuy....... their store, their online store........ and it also might have a "PLUG" for another company such as AOL.......
They don't bother to make contracts with games..... for some reason.

But i agree, it would make me happy, it would let me test out the System (even though ide never buy one form bestbuy), let me test out the monitor, and test out the game.

Its logical, but companies hav'nt caught on yet......... and the majority may never catch on.

towert7 · Aug 10, 2004

Aerobahn said:
no..

Well Aerobahn, that was a wasted post.............. i have know idea what your post was about..........

Perhaps you could explain it better, so that people without telepathy can understand.

Untill then, i can only assume you answered No in response to my last question "Is my assumption incorrect?"

~keep up the work, it might pay off

datamage · Aug 11, 2004

Well I took the plunge back into LCD land after being gone for a while and decided to pick this LCD up.

I gotta say it's the best LCD I've ever used/owned, and I have had quite a few. Including the following; Dell 2000FP, NEC 1760NX, ViewSonic VP171B, Dell 2001FP.

After tweaking the settings, the picture on this screen is gorgeous. Colors look great, the contrast is nice, and everything is just alive. Using the Nokia monitor test, I can finally display all shades of gray.

Gaming is a huge concern for me, and I tend to be very picky about the flaws of an LCD. This panel has the least streaking of all the LCDs I've used, and it's almost non-existant. This is great cause I can notice the blur even on a 16ms panel. If there are any downsides to the screen, it's that I'm still not content with the black levels. This is normal with LCDs, but to deal with the many pros, I'll have to tolerate this con.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

- D.

zlooop · Aug 11, 2004

datamage said:
Well I took the plunge back into LCD land after being gone for a while and decided to pick this LCD up.

I gotta say it's the best LCD I've ever used/owned, and I have had quite a few. Including the following; Dell 2000FP, NEC 1760NX, ViewSonic VP171B, Dell 2001FP.

After tweaking the settings, the picture on this screen is gorgeous. Colors look great, the contrast is nice, and everything is just alive. Using the Nokia monitor test, I can finally display all shades of gray.

Gaming is a huge concern for me, and I tend to be very picky about the flaws of an LCD. This panel has the least streaking of all the LCDs I've used, and it's almost non-existant. This is great cause I can notice the blur even on a 16ms panel. If there are any downsides to the screen, it's that I'm still not content with the black levels. This is normal with LCDs, but to deal with the many pros, I'll have to tolerate this con.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

- D.

Im so glad I ordered this. how and what did you have to tweak. what kind of video card are you using?

datamage · Aug 11, 2004

Im so glad I ordered this. how and what did you have to tweak. what kind of video card are you using?

Just the contrast/brightness/backlight/color settings on the actual lcd. I'm using an XTPE at the moment.

- D.

abarsami · Aug 11, 2004

So, the reflective screen doesn't bother you? Granted it's not that bad, but it's still reflective.

datamage said:
Well I took the plunge back into LCD land after being gone for a while and decided to pick this LCD up.

I gotta say it's the best LCD I've ever used/owned, and I have had quite a few. Including the following; Dell 2000FP, NEC 1760NX, ViewSonic VP171B, Dell 2001FP.

After tweaking the settings, the picture on this screen is gorgeous. Colors look great, the contrast is nice, and everything is just alive. Using the Nokia monitor test, I can finally display all shades of gray.

Gaming is a huge concern for me, and I tend to be very picky about the flaws of an LCD. This panel has the least streaking of all the LCDs I've used, and it's almost non-existant. This is great cause I can notice the blur even on a 16ms panel. If there are any downsides to the screen, it's that I'm still not content with the black levels. This is normal with LCDs, but to deal with the many pros, I'll have to tolerate this con.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

- D.

datamage · Aug 11, 2004

So, the reflective screen doesn't bother you? Granted it's not that bad, but it's still reflective.

I'm used to having a reflective screen since I was using a CRT before. Granted, one of the pluses of most LCDs is no glare, but oh well...

- D.

Aerobahn · Aug 11, 2004

Its only reflective when it is off. when the display is on there is minor reflection when there is a pure black screen with a light source, BUT no more than your average CRT.

abarsami · Aug 11, 2004

I guess I'm so used to no glare from my 710t that I noticed it more.

Aerobahn · Aug 11, 2004

datamage said:
Well I took the plunge back into LCD land after being gone for a while and decided to pick this LCD up.

I gotta say it's the best LCD I've ever used/owned, and I have had quite a few. Including the following; Dell 2000FP, NEC 1760NX, ViewSonic VP171B, Dell 2001FP.

After tweaking the settings, the picture on this screen is gorgeous. Colors look great, the contrast is nice, and everything is just alive. Using the Nokia monitor test, I can finally display all shades of gray.

Gaming is a huge concern for me, and I tend to be very picky about the flaws of an LCD. This panel has the least streaking of all the LCDs I've used, and it's almost non-existant. This is great cause I can notice the blur even on a 16ms panel. If there are any downsides to the screen, it's that I'm still not content with the black levels. This is normal with LCDs, but to deal with the many pros, I'll have to tolerate this con.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

- D.

I think my monitor might be broken

Can you adjust the Green tempeture on your monitor? and one of my menu Items is blocked out its the 'AA" option. Can you adjust yours?

datamage · Aug 11, 2004

Aero,

I just checked, the AA option is grayed out as well.. might be for when you are using an analog connection. Also, I can't adjust my greens either.

- D.

Snikt · Aug 11, 2004

datamage said:
Aero,

I just checked, the AA option is grayed out as well.. might be for when you are using an analog connection. Also, I can't adjust my greens either.

- D.

Same here, no AA option. i'm using DVI-D

Aerobahn · Aug 11, 2004

Great

JSW · Aug 11, 2004

Aerobahn said:
after at 5 days of use i love this monitor! But i am thinking of returning it. I am not happy about the 60hz refresh rate. It will not go one bit higher. If this monitor could do 75 it would be perfect. Becuase i hate my FPS dipping below 60 with vsync on.
Playing doom on it looks just like CRT if not better. I just wish i could have my 75 refresh rate then this monitor would rock. Choices choices.

Hi, looking at the specs on the Sony Style europe site you have to use Analog VGA cable to get a refresh of 75hz

hope that helps you.

Have just received mine in black and its great, am really impressed with it.

Pic

Neurofreeze · Aug 12, 2004

Everyone that keeps chosing the Samsung 710N over the 172X or other 18-bit panels need to re-check Samsung's site and your own manuals: http://www.samsung.com/au/products/monitors/tft/710n.asp?page=Specifications .

It's an 18-bit/16.2M color monitor. That's why Aerobahn doesn't notice a color depth difference; there is none.

towert7 · Aug 12, 2004

Neurofreeze said:
Everyone that keeps chosing the Samsung 710N over the 172X or other 18-bit panels need to re-check Samsung's site and your own manuals: http://www.samsung.com/au/products/monitors/tft/710n.asp?page=Specifications .

It's an 18-bit/16.2M color monitor. That's why Aerobahn doesn't notice a color depth difference; there is none.

Just for the record, the samsung 710N or 712N is not the 710T.

But you know what, i just went on the samsung USA website, and they now call their 710T a 16.2million color display.................. WTF?

On dell's website, it still says 16.7mil ............. but im more inclined to believe samsung's offical website.

HM.......... i wonder what happened........

~_~

Aerobahn · Aug 12, 2004

Neurofreeze said:
Everyone that keeps chosing the Samsung 710N over the 172X or other 18-bit panels need to re-check Samsung's site and your own manuals: http://www.samsung.com/au/products/monitors/tft/710n.asp?page=Specifications .

It's an 18-bit/16.2M color monitor. That's why Aerobahn doesn't notice a color depth difference; there is none.

I said 710T which was my previous panal. I have never owned a 710N. "Which is why neurofreeze doesn't know the difference."

Aerobahn · Aug 12, 2004

towert7 said:
Just for the record, the samsung 710N or 712N is not the 710T.

But you know what, i just went on the samsung USA website, and they now call their 710T a 16.2million color display.................. WTF?

On dell's website, it still says 16.7mil ............. but im more inclined to believe samsung's offical website.

HM.......... i wonder what happened........

~_~

This has been known for quite some time. The 710T is a 16.8 million PVA display if i remember correctly and samsung has not changed thier website. Resellers all or most of them have that it is a 16.8 model.

jag009 · Aug 12, 2004

I went and grabbed the SDMHS94P last night from Circuit City. Only the silver version was available. Here is my impression so far after installation (I will post a more detail review with some pics when I get a chance tonight).

1) No dead pixels so far.
2) The screen is bright, really bright. I love the Xbright technolgy.
3) The screen does have reflection but I don't see it being a problem. I didn't notice any glare when the monitor was on.(I have a desk lamp aiming at the monitor too).
4) The stand is horrible.
5) It seems that the refresh rate is stuck at 60 hz and it's not adjustable.
6) The screen looks fine even though the pixel pitch is .29mm(?). My connection is DVI.
7) The color looks GREAT! Much better than my 19 inch dell LCD at work.

Let me know if you guys have any questions

JSW · Aug 12, 2004

jag009 said:
5) It seems that the refresh rate is stuck at 60 hz and it's not adjustable.

With DVI yes its 60hz

Use the analog d sub cable and then you can choose 75hz.

From Sony UK specs said:
Display Technical Data
Analog Horizontal Frequency (kHz) 28-80
Analog Vertical Frequency (Hz) 48-75
Digital Horizontal Frequency (kHz) 28-64
Digital Vertical Frequency (Hz) 60
Contrast Ratio (max.) 500:1
Display Colour (Mio) 16.2
Display Type a-Si TFT, TN
Luminance (cd/m²) 400
Panel Size (in) 19
Pixel Size (mm) 0.294 x 0.294

PerCT · Aug 12, 2004

jag009, could you post some pics of your silver display?

Thank you!

Lokius · Aug 12, 2004

Aerobahn could you post some pictures of the Sony and the 710T alongside, so we can get an idea of how much larger the Sony is than the Samsung, I'm trying to decide between the two, I need an LCD for college, and right now I'm thinking that the bezel on the Sony may be too large. I greatly appreciate this.

jag009 · Aug 12, 2004

just got home and switched on the mon.. Okay I was wrong.. The screen does have reflection if the background color is black.

I will post pics later tonite. Stay tune.

magic168 · Aug 12, 2004

A quick question on the Sony 19" -- is it VESA compliant? i.e. does it have the screwholes to attach it to a wallmount/lcd arm? Thanks!

jag009 · Aug 13, 2004

PerCT said:
jag009, could you post some pics of your silver display?

Thank you!

Here are some pics of my silver SDMHS94P.

Here is a pic of my wallpaper. The color is very nice.

Here are some pics from the game Euro 2004.

Here is a pic from CNN's website

zlooop · Aug 13, 2004

jag009 said:
Here are some pics of my silver SDMHS94P.

Here is a pic of my wallpaper. The color is very nice.

Here are some pics from the game Euro 2004.

Here is a pic from CNN's website

droooL!

towert7 · Aug 13, 2004

After seeing the infamous "phonebook", i will assume the monitor does'nt have any vertical adjustments???

magic168 · Aug 13, 2004

Can someone please tell me if it's got the screwholes for a VESA plate?? No one seems to want to reply...

jlee1 · Aug 13, 2004

I don't fucking believe this.

I'm trying to buy the HS94P, but I can't, because apparently the encoding strip on my credit card is damaged, so my bank says I have to wait until I receive my replacement card to make any purchases involving VISA (including online or phone purchases).

And because I'm out of state, I can't just go and transfer money quickly from bank to bank and use my other card.

profy · Aug 13, 2004

Excuse my english

@towert7
You don't need any vertical adjustment.The pictures looks "round" because of the digital camera (too close shooting).In fact it is perfectly straight.

@magic168
It doesn't have any screwholes.

@ALL
I'm using a DVI cable and I have set my monitor at 6500K (9300K is too bright for me), BACKLIGHT 100, CONTRAST 90 BRIGHTNESS 50 and GAMMA2. What settings are You using? Any other recommandations for best picture?

Thank You,
profy

towert7 · Aug 13, 2004

profy said:
Excuse my english
@towert7
You don't need any vertical adjustment.The pictures looks "round" because of the digital camera (too close shooting).In fact it is perfectly straight.

I'm using a DVI cable and I have set my monitor at 6500K (9300K is too bright for me),

Im sorry, i think you misunderstood me. When i said vertical adjustment, i did'nt mean the actually screen, i mean the monitor itself. Can you raise and lower the monitor. He propped a phonebook under the monitor, so i will assume you can not change the vertical height of the monitor.

As for 9300K being too bright over 6500K ..................... those are color settings.... they adjust the colors... if its too bright, the brightness can be toned down a bit. Oh well, anyway.

~Hope this helps with the confusion.

profy · Aug 13, 2004

No, the monitor itself doesn't have any vertical adjustment.
I mean "9300K is too bright for me" because the whole screen is too bright (I think) at this color temperature.

MY sony 19" 12 ms

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