Need a 22-23 inch upgrade to the Syncmaster 226bw (gaming)

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Wattson

Weaksauce
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Sep 10, 2009
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I ended up buying a Syncmaster around mid 2007 and it was my second LCD, the first being an Acer 24 inch a year before that I sent back within a week due to motion blur. For the price I paid, this monitor was very good for gaming and there was no noticeable ghosting except when circle strafing and looking really hard to spot it, and that's at a "2ms gtg". The colors on it were "good enough" and I know garbage compared to other panels due to it being a TN, but it did what I wanted for gaming. Video watching was tolerable to good enough the majority of the time.

Fast forward to today and I can tell the screen is dying and it's probably going to be unusable in at least the next four to six months and I need help getting a replacement. Right now a two and a half inch strip of backlight bleed all the way across the screen from left to right at the bottom and is noticeably lighter in regards to blacks. Now there's a lot of black crush going on and zero details on items that are supposed to be in shadows, but not totally black. The blacks also look more like a really dark and washed out indigo blue...this looks really ugly in games as well as video.

Anyway, when I bought the 226bw I think that model was almost a year old already, so I'm assumming there have been *some kind* of improvements since then to the 22 inch market. I do not want a 24 inch as it's just a larger screen that costs more that I have to set back farther anyway. 23 inch is doable however if I really need to. My budget right now is right around $500, so I know I'm not going to get some super awesome screen that's great for gaming and looks good with video, but what I want is something that at least equals the performance of this screen and has a similar gtg. I can't stand noticeable ghosting period, and I'm not sure what everyone elses experience is with a 5ms gtg, but that seems like about the only thing that's being marketed anymore and the model I have now was a 2ms. Was there simply a problem with the overdrive mechanic that caused them to stop using it, or is it just that the 22 inch market is mostly dead anyway and so they are focusing on 23 inch and above?

Any help with a list of candidates would be greatly appreciated. And I'm not looking for feature rich monitors with a bunch of extra options, just one that looks good for games and has a quick response time. Anything else is just a bonus.
 
I would get the Samsung XL2370 for gaming. It'll be a lot like your 226BW in terms of response but it does have a lot deeper blacks than regular tns and less backlight bleed.
 
I would go for the Samsung 2233rz 120hz as it is a significant upgrade once calibrated over the 226bw (i had one for 2 years). The XL2370 is good but there are faster 2ms monitors avaliable such as the LG W2261VP or LG W2253V (used to own this as well).

In before some one recommends the Dell 2209wa.

Go read reviews:

Samsung 2233rz
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/samsung_2233rz.htm
http://www.digitalversus.com/article-358-4495-36.html
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-samsung-2233rz.html


LGW2253V (faster than the XL2370 according to Digitalversus and better color)
http://www.digitalversus.com/article-358-5373-35.html

LG W2261VP
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-lg-w2261vp.html


Dell 2209
http://www.digitalversus.com/article-358-4862-88.html
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-dell-2209wa.html
 
I'd get a Dell 2209WA. I replaced my 226bw with the 2209WA, and with 75hz, it is MUCH smoother than the 226bw ever was, and has much better colors/contrast/viewing angles on top of the fact.

Response time isn't everything. The extra 15hz of refresh (75hz vs 60hz) makes a bigger difference in smoothness.

You also mentioned blacks. The above TN displays will crush blacks, whereas IPS panels generally have decent contrast (800-1000:1 static) without crushing blacks at all.

That said a 120hz display like the 2233rz will be even smoother :)
 
steal said:
I'd get a Dell 2209WA. I replaced my 226bw with the 2209WA, and with 75hz, it is MUCH smoother than the 226bw ever was, and has much better colors/contrast/viewing angles on top of the fact.

Response time isn't everything. The extra 15hz of refresh (75hz vs 60hz) makes a bigger difference in smoothness.

You also mentioned blacks. The above TN displays will crush blacks, whereas IPS panels generally have decent contrast (800-1000:1 static) without crushing blacks at all.

That said a 120hz display like the 2233rz will be even smoother :)
Click to expand...

I checked out some reviews on the 2209WA and it seems to be superior to most other similar sized screens, but they all seem to criticize the lack of 1:1 scaling. How exactly does this affect viewing movies or playing games? Does it show the flaws of lower resolution video even more, or does it simply stretch the image to try to make it "fit" the screen? And why would the screen be what's trying to resize images anyway when usually that's left up to video cards I thought?
 
steal said:
I'd get a Dell 2209WA. I replaced my 226bw with the 2209WA, and with 75hz, it is MUCH smoother than the 226bw ever was, and has much better colors/contrast/viewing angles on top of the fact.

Response time isn't everything. The extra 15hz of refresh (75hz vs 60hz) makes a bigger difference in smoothness.

You also mentioned blacks. The above TN displays will crush blacks, whereas IPS panels generally have decent contrast (800-1000:1 static) without crushing blacks at all.

That said a 120hz display like the 2233rz will be even smoother :)
Click to expand...

IPS panels generally have lower contrast and high black levels, especially the 2209wa when calibrated is around 600:1.

Decent TN's with calibration do not suffer from black crush and and can have massive PQ improvements.

Lack of 1:1 scaling on a 16:10 panel results in widescreen 16:9 movies having larger black bars, which is not a problem in a bright enviroment. Games will also be presented with black bars on the top and bottom of the screen, which really isn't an issue.

When viewd in a dark enviroment monitors with high black levels (2209WA) or back light bleed (many TN's) and lack of 1:1 pixel mapping really suffer as the huge black bars look purple or blue and can be quite distracting, I can not emphasize how much this sucks. Also if used with consoles the PS3 the image will stretched and distorted.
 
NCX said:
IPS panels generally have lower contrast and high black levels, especially the 2209wa when calibrated is around 600:1.

Decent TN's with calibration do not suffer from black crush and and can have massive PQ improvements.

Lack of 1:1 scaling on a 16:10 panel results in widescreen 16:9 movies having larger black bars, which is not a problem in a bright enviroment. Games will also be presented with black bars on the top and bottom of the screen, which really isn't an issue.

When viewd in a dark enviroment monitors with high black levels (2209WA) or back light bleed (many TN's) and lack of 1:1 pixel mapping really suffer as the huge black bars look purple or blue and can be quite distracting, I can not emphasize how much this sucks. Also if used with consoles the PS3 the image will stretched and distorted.
Click to expand...

have you ever used a 2209wa?

my blacks have never looked blue, or purple...
 
trying to find a Dell 2209WA at a decent price is a pain the the arse. i want one bad but cannot justift 300 dollars.
 
Don't need to own the Dell to know what it will look like. Black levels of .20 and 600:1 contrast is medicore and will really show in a dark room. Purchasing the 2209wa is essnetially pointless if color work is not in mind and only gaming is. If colors are extremely important then the Dell is worth it being one of the most accurate monitors out there when profressionally calibrated.
 
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I ended up getting the 2209WA and for the most part it seems like it will be fine for my purposes and the price. Maybe it's just all in my head, but the colors stand out more than what they did on my Syncmaster but there's a cost to it.

Just like the Acer I kept for a week, there's a really disgusting "shimmer" effect that's usually only noticeable when there are black bars though, but it also happens in the lower portion of the screen but you kind of have to look for it. I'm also really confused about the whole supposed viewing angle superiority over TN. If I'm not looking directly at this monitor, the color/brightness distorts very badly and doesn't look anything at all like what you would see on video demos of this specific model. At least there's no motion blur that I can detect and the colors "seem" a little better I guess.
 
Wattson said:
Just like the Acer I kept for a week, there's a really disgusting "shimmer" effect that's usually only noticeable when there are black bars though, but it also happens in the lower portion of the screen but you kind of have to look for it.
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If IPS is what you're looking for, then this is something you're going to have to live with. Unless of course you're looking to spend money on a professional level monitor. It really bothered me at first also, but I got use to it pretty quickly. It's an even trade off for correct colors and good viewing angles, for me.


Wattson said:
I'm also really confused about the whole supposed viewing angle superiority over TN. If I'm not looking directly at this monitor, the color/brightness distorts very badly and doesn't look anything at all like what you would see on video demos of this specific model.
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Wah? This should not be, I have an IPS panel right next to a TN panel, If i lay on the ground directly underneath them, the TN panel almost inverts the colors where the IPS (2209wa) looks perfectly fine. Obviously you would not be using your monitors at this extreme angle, however it's just an example.

Wattson said:
At least there's no motion blur that I can detect and the colors "seem" a little better I guess.
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Just keep in mind that the colors on the IPS panel may appear less vibrant at first look, which will make you think they look worse. However this is not so. TN panels over contrast everything, and to the unknown this looks better. Those colors are fake, the colors on an IPS panel are much more correct.
 
Cyper said:
Those colors are fake, the colors on an IPS panel are much more correct.
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I've owned a regular IPS panel before and a e-ips 2209wa. Best way to describe how the 2209wa looked to me was it felt like I was looking at a 6bit IPS panel. It looks better than TN but feels like you're looking at TN colors minus the viewing angle problems.
 
NCX said:
Don't need to own the Dell to know what it will look like. Black levels of .20 and 600:1 contrast is medicore and will really show in a dark room. Purchasing the 2209wa is essnetially pointless if color work is not in mind and only gaming is. If colors are extremely important then the Dell is worth it being one of the most accurate monitors out there when profressionally calibrated.
Click to expand...

This must count among some of the worst advice that I have heard in this forum.

Wattson said:
I'm also really confused about the whole supposed viewing angle superiority over TN. If I'm not looking directly at this monitor, the color/brightness distorts very badly and doesn't look anything at all like what you would see on video demos of this specific model
Click to expand...

Let's consider what phenomena 'viewing angle' accounts for in an LCD. When we change our viewing position relative to a monitor, we may register changes in gamma, colour value and contrast in the image. TN and VA mode LCDs are reported to change noticeably in both colour, gamma and contrast when viewed off-angle.

Please open http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php and compare the image when viewed directly and from a diagonal angle using your 2209WA. You will notice that the colours do not change value even when viewed at an angle near 178 degrees. You might ask, what effect does this diagonal glow have on the image? It amounts to a loss of contrast between the luminance of black and white, which does not strictly impair image accuracy as gamma shift will do in other LCD modes. These traits are what allow IPS mode displays to have the best viewing angles available.
 
ebolamonkey001 said:
I've owned a regular IPS panel before and a e-ips 2209wa. Best way to describe how the 2209wa looked to me was it felt like I was looking at a 6bit IPS panel. It looks better than TN but feels like you're looking at TN colors minus the viewing angle problems.
Click to expand...

Did you happen to take leave of your senses whilst gathering this opinion?

... the colors "seem" a little better I guess.
Click to expand...
Jeez, Dell really took you to the cleaners, didn't they? They must be laughing all the way to the bank on this one.

I've put 1820 hours into my 2209WA and continue to remain amazed at the quality and performance of the unit. Its superiority of image quality over its priced peers is as clear as counting crows on snow.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
Jeez, Dell really took you to the cleaners, didn't they? They must be laughing all the way to the bank on this one.

I've put 1820 hours into my 2209WA and continue to remain amazed at the quality and performance of the unit. Its superiority of image quality over its priced peers is as clear as counting crows on snow.
Click to expand...

Not really sure what this comment is all about. I said the colors "seemed" to look better, only because they are supposed to be better on this panel over a TN and I wasn't sure if it was just a placebo effect taking place.

Some of the color seperation seemed quite a bit better, but at the same time I'm having issues calibrating it (using an Eye-One) and maybe it's just going to take a period of adjustment because I don't have anything to compare it to a professionally calibrated and accurate monitor. I'm also noticing the "screen door" effect, or what actually just looks like a monitor that has a layer of dust covering the screen. The Syncmaster didn't do this. What you described with the viewing angles is exactly what I'm experiencing, and really it doesn't matter one bit for me since I don't look at the screen off center anyway, it was just an observation.
 
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