Need Madden 2k5 EULA RE: Starforce

B

Bob002

Gawd
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
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884
Someone has to be able to post the EULA for Madden.

I just searched for "Computer Trespass" and came up with this:



(A) No person shall purposely, knowingly or recklessly gain access to or cause access to be gained to any computer, computer system, computer network, computer program, computer data base, or computer material without the express or implied authorization of the owner or an agent of the owner empowered to authorize access to the computer, computer system, computer network, computer program, computer data base, or computer material. Any person who violates this section is guilty of the crime of computer trespass.
Click to expand...

Now, here's the tricky part.

If the EULA mentions Starforce, then there really is nothing that could be done.

If the EULA doesn't mention Starforce, then it seems they ARE, in fact, guilty of computer trespass when you install Madden, due to the fact that it is done without your consent.

If it's mentioned in the EULA, and you click the ol "I Agree" button, then obviously you agree to abide by the terms of the EULA.

However, if it's not mentioned, and you click it, and it's Starforce is installed, they are doing so without your consent.

Now, I know most of the Pro-Starforce people are going to say "Well, you click I agree, blah blah blah". Correct. We're agreeing to the terms laid out in the EULA. If Starforce isn't in there, it couldn't be legally enforced.
 
I agree with the reasoning, but I doubt they've forgotten to mention it. We'll see, I guess.
 
how exactly does starforce cause someone to gain access to your computer?

what am i missing?............
 
Xtasy0 said:
how exactly does starforce cause someone to gain access to your computer?

what am i missing?............
Click to expand...

It installs itself without telling you. Thus the game packagers have caused starforce to gain access to your computer, potentially without asking or informing you.
 
HHunt said:
It installs itself without telling you. Thus the game packagers have caused starforce to gain access to your computer, potentially without asking or informing you.
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maybe if starforce was a trojan, or even a remote admin tool, but it's not.

i'm fairly certain if you asked someone from the EFF about this they would say the same, installing a program != gaining access (unless said program is a backdoor/trojan/remoteadmin util/etc).

i think this whole "omg starforce is commiting computer trespass omg" thing is an insanely stupid argument.
 
Xtasy0 said:
maybe if starforce was a trojan, or even a remote admin tool, but it's not.

i'm fairly certain if you asked someone from the EFF about this they would say the same, installing a program != gaining access (unless said program is a backdoor/trojan/remoteadmin util/etc).

i think this whole "omg starforce is commiting computer trespass omg" thing is an insanely stupid argument.
Click to expand...

Removing redundant or uninteresting parts, we get
"No person shall knowingly cause access to be gained to any computer or computer system without the express or implied authorization of the owner. Any person who violates this section is guilty of the crime of computer trespass."

They install a program that digs itself deeply into your system, possibly with frustrating side effects, without telling you. That is "causing access to be gained to a computer system without permission" in my eyes. They cause access to be gained for installing starforce without asking or even informing.

Also, starforce and the like can actually be seen as trojans, as they
1) Come hidden in other software (that you would want to install)
2) Hide themselves completely
3) Requires downloading programs to get rid of them
4) Can have deterimental effects on your computing experience. (It's bound to have side-effects)
 
HHunt said:
Removing redundant or uninteresting parts, we get
"No person shall knowingly cause access to be gained to any computer or computer system without the express or implied authorization of the owner. Any person who violates this section is guilty of the crime of computer trespass."

They install a program that digs itself deeply into your system, possibly with frustrating side effects, without telling you. That is "causing access to be gained to a computer system without permission" in my eyes. They cause access to be gained for installing starforce without asking or even informing.

Also, starforce and the like can actually be seen as trojans, as they
1) Come hidden in other software (that you would want to install)
2) Hide themselves completely
3) Requires downloading programs to get rid of them
4) Can have deterimental effects on your computing experience. (It's bound to have side-effects)
Click to expand...

heh, ok you start the lawsuit and we'll see how far it gets before getting laughed out of court.
 
Xtasy0 said:
heh, ok you start the lawsuit and we'll see how far it gets before getting laughed out of court.
Click to expand...

Stranger cases have been won. :D
I suspect we might end up with mandated info stickers, or at least yet another screen to click through in the install, if I threw enough money at it.
 
No, you are reading that wrong. "Access to be gained" means by a person, not a program. It's pretty shady that they don't allow you to deselect it during installation, but it is not a trespass...
 
If it's present when installing and it shows so but doesn't let you deselect it, then there aren't doing anything wrong. What's stopping you from hitting the Cancel button if you really don't want it on there?

The argument, while a good one is flawed in so many places it really wouldn't get far.
 
maybe i missed something (in this thread, or a previous one), but what is "starforce"?

edit: oh i stumbled upon the other thread :)
 
The Donut said:
If it's present when installing and it shows so but doesn't let you deselect it, then there aren't doing anything wrong. What's stopping you from hitting the Cancel button if you really don't want it on there?

The argument, while a good one is flawed in so many places it really wouldn't get far.
Click to expand...

That mainly seems like the issue at hand. Once again, I need to see a copy of the EULA before I can really say more.

If it DOES mention it in the EULA, then you're right, there isn't anything that can really be done.

If it DOESN'T mention it in the EULA, then they are, in fact, guilty of computer trespass.

Reading that line by line, it says that if access is knowingly gained (do you not think installation of third party software is access?) WITHOUT consent of the owner or agent of the owner, then that is computer trespass.

It's pretty cut and dry.
 
If installing other programs during an installation is trespass than call Microsoft guilty because they installed Hearts on my computer! And if you say "Well, it's not a third party" then call every Linux install trespass because every utility there is third-party.
 
Maximus825 said:
If installing other programs during an installation is trespass than call Microsoft guilty because they installed Hearts on my computer! And if you say "Well, it's not a third party" then call every Linux install trespass because every utility there is third-party.
Click to expand...

There's a big difference in that both windows and Linux distros are suits of software and marked as such. You expect them to install lots of programs. However, you'd be excused for beliving that a game will only install a game.
(If the windows installer installed MSN on your cellphone without asking we'd be in the same general area.)
 
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