Need suggestions for new system - $3000 budget!

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asyncd

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Jul 10, 2004
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It has been years since I have upgraded. I have been out of the loop in regards to PC hardware for quite some time and no longer know who leads in the battle: AMD or Intel.

I'm looking to build a new machine and have a budget of around $3000 - $3500 max. I'm looking for ideas and suggestions on what you would build.

I don't spend most of my time doing a certain thing on the PC but want it to be diverse as I don't see myself upgrading any time in the near future so I want this machine to last me awhile.

I would like to be able to play some sweet games, have enough mem and cpu power to run 10 - 12 routers on Dynampis (Cisco Router emulator), and be able to do multiple tasks with ease.

In regards to video cards, I also don't know what is currently the best cards out right now (ATI or nVidia?).

If any of you could be so kind as to post suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it.
This will be a fresh build and will require all new components except monitor (I have a 24" LG) or peripherals.

Thank you.

Also on a side note, with a solid new machine, is Vista worth an investment or should I stick with my original XP Pro. (I have a separate machine for my Linux distro so no need to comment on this OS). Thanks again.
 
Yes Vista is worth the investment. It is a stable OS now and performs just as well as XP.

Video card wise, get the HD4870X2 when it's released later this month. It's a great card for gaming on a 24" monitor. Price should be around $550 give or take $50.

Oh and definitely Intel. But an FYI, after around $2000 or so, you reach a seriously low-level of diminishing returns. A $3500 rig will only be about 5 to 10% faster over a $2000 rig.

But if I had a ton of cash to burn, didn't give a damn about getting the most value for my money and the flawed notion that a $3000 rig will outlast a $1500 or $2000 rig at the end of this year, I'd get this:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 CPU - $280
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme HSF - $57 & Scythe S-Flex SFF21E 120MM Case Fan - $14
Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4 Intel X48 Motherboard - $225
2 x G.Skill F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ 2 x 2GB DDR2 1000 RAM - $170 ($85 each)
2 x HD4870 X2 - $1100 (Assuming that they're $550 each, for Crossfire)
2 x Western Digital VelociRaptor WD3000GLFS 300GB 10000 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $580 ($290 each, for RAID 0 setup)
2 x Samsung SH-222F 22X DVD±R SATA DVD Burner - $52 ($26 each, for DVD copying)
Corsair 1000HX Modular PSU - $230
Antec P182 ATX Case - $135
Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1 OEM - $80
---
Total: $2923 plus tax and shipping

Though a more sensible and more bang for the buck build would be:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 CPU - $195
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle HSF - $37 & Retention Bracket - $7
DFI Lanparty DK X38-T2R Intel X38 Motherboard - $180
2 x G.Skill F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ 2 x 2GB DDR2 1000 RAM - $170 ($85 each)
2 x VisionTek 900244 Radeon HD 4870 512MB PCI-E Video Card - $570 ($285 each, for Crossfire)
Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $85
Samsung SH-222F 22X DVD±R SATA DVD Burner - $26
Corsair 750TX 750W PSU - $98
Antec P182 ATX Case - $135
Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit SP1 OEM - $80
---
Total: $1583 plus tax and shipping.
 
IMHO the Corsair 1000HX is worth getting as is the WD VelociRaptor HDs. Also, I would get just the 4870X2 and then add a second one later if necessary. On top of that, the Gigabyte X48-DS4 seems more solid, design-wise and support-wise than the DFI. Definitely use the Q6600. Who needs a Q9450? As long as you're ok with OCing, the Q6600 is the most solid investment around.
 
The Q6600 is the best bang for buck quad, since its only $180. The Q9450 would be best for anyone using apps that take advantage of SSE4.1.

The original Raptor wasn't worth its price a few years ago, nor is the current VRaptor, IMO -- as far as bang for buck is concerned.

The Corsair HX1000 is only worth buying if you plan on doing dual X2 Crossfire or Tri-SLI.

P182 for a cash-to-burn rig?! No Silverstone TJ-10 or Lian-Li equiv?!? :p
 
I have been building systems a long time and for this guys needs I agree with your suggestions albeit one thing. The cpu. He wants a system to last a really long time then you should put in a top of the line cpu and q6600 is now bottom of the barrel quad.


Intel 9650 3.0 GH quad $559

GIGABYTE GA-X48-DS4 motherboard $224

COOLER MASTER cosmos S RC-1100 Case $229

ZALMAN CNPS9700 CPU cooler if your going to overclock $54

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive (get two of these instead of the 1 raptor) $160 for two

Pioneer Black 12X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 5X Blu-ray DVD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Internal Blu-Ray Combo Model BDC-202BK 159.99

OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory $109 for 4GB of you could spend 220 for 8GB


PC Power & Cooling S75QB 750W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply - Retail (Has a single +12v rail pushing 60 amps) $140

ASUS Xonar D2X 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz PCI Express Interface Sound Card $199
(Ignore this if your not into high quality audio. If you just want good enough sound. Then just use the onboard audio and save some money. However, if you have a nice sound setup this sound card can do it all and is high quality)

Radeon 4870X2- comes out tommorrow and is rumored to be 499

High quality stereo desktop speakers , get the Swan M200MkII $210 a pair

Vista Ultimate edition oem x64 bit 170
______________________________________________________________

Configured as:

Intel 9650 Quad

Gigabyte motherboard

Coolermaster cosmos case

Zalman cpu cooler

2 X 500GB seagate hard drives

Pioneer 5X blu-ray drive

8GB OCZ 1066 Ram

Pc power and cooling 750 Watt power supply

Asus D2X sound card

Radeon 4870X2

Swan M200MkII speakers

Vista Ultimate Edition x64

Total $2600

Now that is what I call a exellent system.
 
I disagree on a few choices in your build:
- The Seagate drives are slow compared to the WD6400AAKs drive I chose. In fact, they're only $5 more than the Seagate 500GB drive. So for an extra $10, you get 240GB extra and a significant boost in speed
- There are other and cheaper HSF that outperform the Zalman HSF:
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle HSF - $37 & Retention Bracket - $7
OCZ OCZTVEND2 Vendetta 2 120 Rifle HSF - $50
ZEROtherm Nirvana NV120 120mm HSF - $50
Thermalright Ultima-90 HSF - $46 & Panaflo FBA09A12M 92mm Fan - $3

- The Q9650 is not a good buy. You're essentially paying an extra $280 over the Q9450 for just a measly 333Mhz increase. That's a ridiculously high premium
 
Agree with Danny on the above as well as the P182. CM Cosmos is meh compared to the P182 IMHO. Even enginurd's Lian Li and Silverstone suggestion are better. Also, I would get the Corsair 1000HX for the modular and the potential 4870X2 setup in the future (something I'm planning to do myself =P).

Also, the Swan M12 are fairly amazing desktop speakers that are easy to setup that aren't too expensive. If you wanted a great audio setup, do not use desktop speakers because you can get an amazing audio setup for the buck. If you just go, for example, Berhinger MS20 or MS40 as monitor speakers and then a Dayton sub 8" 800W. You could also tack on either a high end sound card like the HT Omega Claro+ or just a nice receiver like the Sherwood 6500 and you should have sound that blows the Swans out of the waters. (Reference: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1328608 )
 
The reason I reccomended the premium price on the 9650 is he wants his system to last a long time. Buying it now would prevent a future upgrade. Usually I agree to get with the price performance but obviously with what he is spending he is looking for high end.

The P182 sucks for cable management and it runs hotter than that coolermaster cosmos. Its not a bad case but its definately in my opinion nothing compared to that cosmos and I have built systems on both.

The corsair 1000hx is not a bad power supply at all. One of the best. My biggest concern is it has dual 12volt rails instead of a single powerful rail. The 750pcp one I suggested has won techreports power supply shootout for 2 years in a row. It has a 60 amp single 12v rail.

The swan M12 are good, but I promise you. You wont believe your ears when you hear the swan m200mkII, seriously I hope you dont think berhingers can even come close to the sound these produce.
 
The reason Danny said that the Q9650 is not worth the money is because, if the OP wanted to, he could easily overclock the Q9450 or the Q9550 to around/over 3GHz.

If you're even remotely decent with cable management, the P182 would work. But case selection is a subjective matter, so I'm going to offer any new suggestions.

I haven't heard of anyone have any problems with any of the Corsair power supplies under load, so I doubt the fact that it has two 12V rails will hinder its performance.

I'm not going to discuss speakers, as you guys obviously have the OP well covered.
 
I agree that the M200MKII are pretty damn good for desktop speakers, but it's generally hard to beat two good monitors and a separate solid sub. I suppose it's my personal preference, but I dislike desktop speakers. The attempts to get lows, mids, and highs on a pair of monitors with a wide volume range without sound distortion... it just doesn't seem viable to me.

I would rather be able to piece together a top-notch sound system with receivers, amps, preamps, subs, monitors, etc., all starting with a couple of monitors, subs, and possibly a receiver. This leaves felxibility to add speakers for a 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, and other setups. However, most people don't need such an elaborate setup. For them, the Swan M200MKII may fit the bill very well.
 
FlyinBrian said:
The reason I reccomended the premium price on the 9650 is he wants his system to last a long time. Buying it now would prevent a future upgrade. Usually I agree to get with the price performance but obviously with what he is spending he is looking for high end. ...
Click to expand...

... but its only 333Mhz faster. :( I could understand if its at least half a gigahertz faster, but its not even that. :eek:
 
FlyinBrian said:
The reason I reccomended the premium price on the 9650 is he wants his system to last a long time. Buying it now would prevent a future upgrade. Usually I agree to get with the price performance but obviously with what he is spending he is looking for high end.
Click to expand...
Couple hundred MHz won't extend system longevity. :p Just means you blew more money on a chip when it was released and if the OP's emphasis isn't on overclocking, then the higher multiplier (the only reason to get higher end chips in the processor line IMO) would've been wasted.
 
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I didn't realize putting together a new PC was going to be so difficult and aggravating :)

In any case, below is what I have come up with and while some of you will not agree, I think this solution will fit my needs for awhile. Please feel free to flame or whatever. I'm making the purchase tomorrow afternoon and depending on the responses I get may make modifications. I am not going to go with the latest ATI card. I don't have time to wait for them to come back in stock and having a card that get so hot that it is painful to touch is not what I am looking for.

Case: Thermaltake ArmorPlus(Armor+) VH6000BWS
Power Supply: ZALMAN ZM750-HP
Motherboard (The board comes with a separate PCI-E SupremeFX X-Fi): ASUS Maximus II Formula LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
Memory: 2x OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (8GB Total)
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450
CPU Cooler: ZALMAN CNPS9700
Video Card: XFX GX280NZDF9 GeForce GTX 280 1GB 512-bit GDDR3
CD/DVD/Blu-Ray: LG GGC-H20L 16X Blu-ray/HD DVD
Hard Drive 1: Western Digital Caviar Blue WD800JD 80GB
Hard Drive 2/3/4 (Raid 5): Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB
OS: Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 64-bit

Cost from Newegg: $2,287.86
Shipping Charge: $51.20
Total Cost: $2,339.06

I hope this machine will keep me in business for awhile. Looks like it is far under my $3000 budget. If you have comments or suggestions, let me know and if something really sticks at me I might change a selection. Also, I'm not one to buy from 5+ different vendors to save a few bucks and wait for all my parts to arrive. One vendor is much easier. You think if I called Newegg up and said that I want the shipping charge waived they'd do it? :)

Thanks again!
 
Motherboard: Any reason why you chose that motherboard? IMO, that is one heavily overpriced P45 motherboard since you can get the slightly faster X48 chipsets with x16/x16 Crossfire or RAID card card support for less:
Asus P5E Deluxe Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
DFI Lanparty DK X48-T2R Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4 Intel X48 Motherboard - $225

RAM: Ditch it. You don't need DDR2 1066 RAM even if you're planning on overclocking. Get this G.Skill set instead:
G.Skill F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ 2 x 2GB DDR2 1000 RAM - $85

CPU: I highly highly recommend buying that CPU from another vendor since you can save $50 that way:
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 CPU - $280

CPU Cooler: There are significantly better HSF for the money:
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle HSF - $37 & Retention Bracket - $7

Hard Drive 1: Ditch it. It's a pretty slow drive. The WD6400AAKS drive you chose is significantly faster than that 80GB drive. It even outperforms many older Raptor drives out there. The 80GB is a total waste of money as a result.

Also, do note that since you're using the onboard RAID controller, you will see a performance hit in both drive speed and system speed. You'll see about 10 to 50% CPU usage at all times if you're using the onboard RAID controller. In drive speed, don't expect more than 100Mb/s or so.

Since you still have room in your budget, I recommend getting a true hardware RAID card. You'll gain a significant boost in speed, no CPU usage at all, and if the motherboard dies, your data will still be safe since it's tied to the card, not the motherboard. I recommend these controllers:
Areca ARC-1210 PCI-E x8 4 Port SATA II Controller Card (Hardware RAID) - $290
Areca ARC-1220 PCI-E x8 8 Port SATA II Controller Card (Hardware RAID) - $435
 
After reading your above post, my n00bness shines brighter than the sun.
As far as the board, a friend pointed it out to me.
I was originally going to go with the Gigabyte board. I think I will change that.

I'll take the price savings into consideration for the CPU.
2 different vendors is fine for me.

As for the hard drive setup, for awhile it has always been ingrained to put the OS on a smaller separate drive and everything else on another drive - is this flawed logic?

I was thinking Raid 5 because people were talking about using Raid 0 and after research I didn't want one drive to go bad and end up losing a lot of my data off both drives - I'm a total n00b when it comes to Raid so I saw Raid 5 and said there would be some protection there in case a drive goes bad.

After seeing the above, I guess I'm going to need to rethink this entire setup. I'm not wealthy and this is a considerable amount of money for me that I have saved for this purchase so I need it to be as efficient as possible.

Thanks again for your comments - you saved me some heartache.
 
asyncd said:
... As for the hard drive setup, for awhile it has always been ingrained to put the OS on a smaller separate drive and everything else on another drive - is this flawed logic?

I was thinking Raid 5 because people were talking about using Raid 0 and after research I didn't want one drive to go bad and end up losing a lot of my data off both drives - I'm a total n00b when it comes to Raid so I saw Raid 5 and said there would be some protection there in case a drive goes bad.

After seeing the above, I guess I'm going to need to rethink this entire setup. I'm not wealthy and this is a considerable amount of money for me that I have saved for this purchase so I need it to be as efficient as possible. ...
Click to expand...

Thats great if the small drive can perform on par with the other drives. However, that 80GB is slow. At least get a WD3200AAKS, since it uses the same density platter as those 640GB drives, and can perform on par with them.

The only reason RAID to use RAID is to minimize downtime and fault protection. It is NOT a backup solution, in case you were wondering. With or without RAID, a good backup scheme should be implemented if you care about your data. RAID5 is slower at writing than RAID0, due to the parity bits, but its much faster at reading. What is your goal with your RAID setup?

If you want to save money, you can probably find a used Dell Perc5/i card for under $150 on eBay, for some hardware RAID5 action. Danny has more info on that card, btw, so you can search for his old posts about it.
 
asyncd said:
As for the hard drive setup, for awhile it has always been ingrained to put the OS on a smaller separate drive and everything else on another drive - is this flawed logic?
Click to expand...

It's not a flawed logic from a data storage standpoint. A smaller OS drive would force you to move unncecessary or valuable data off to another drive and would allow you to reformat or reinstall without losing that much valuable data.

However, from a price to performance to storage standpoint or bang for your buck standpoint, it's kind of a bad idea. That 80GB drive is pretty slow compared to the 640GB drive and has a poor GB per price ratio. You're paying about 13 cents per gig with the 640GB drive while you're paying 48 cents per gig with the 80GB drive. So in other words: that 80GB drive is overpriced and a slow drive.

Those two reasons alone outweigh any pros with using a smaller drive.

And the Dell Perc info that Enginurd mentioned:
If you don't mind buying used hardware, you could buy a Dell Perc 5/i card off eBay for ~$125 or so plus two of these SFF-8484 to 4 x SATA Cables for ~$25. Thus, you get 8 ports and a true hardware RAID controller for around ~$150 or so. Not a bad deal considering that a new true PCI-E hardware RAID controller is around $300 (Areca ARC-1210) for 4 ports. But those Dell Perc 5/i cards are a bit finicky about motherboards. It will take up PCI-E x16 slot

Read these threads for more info:
Finally went to a Hardware Raid5 controller...
Dell Perc 5/i - Mainboard Compatibility List
Solution for Dell Perc 5/i for Intel Chipsets

And damn, enginurd finally beat me in response time :D
 
Thanks again for the comments. Ok, I'm going back simplistic style.

I'm getting the 320GB as drive 1 and the 640GB as my second drive. I currently have a 200+GB hard drive and don't even use 50% of it. Therefore, having so much space isn't really a necessity for me. So two drives - one for OS and the other for my data/apps.

As far as a backup solution, I'll probabably just invest in an external drive for that.

So I'm back down to around $2k without a sound card since the Asus board had one.

Final question, what do you recommend for a good gaming sound card / 5.1 or 7.1 speaker set. Preferrably one that has good driver support for Vista Ultimate 64.

That's about all. Thanks.
 
Thanks Danny.

By the way - out of curiosity, why are there so many 7.1 surround sound cards but hardly any speaker setups to go with them? I see plenty of 5.1 speaker sets but not 7.1 and it baffles me as to why.
 
Because the performance gain you get between 5 speakers and 7 speakers was hardly noticeable to the human ear. Most people just opted to buy the cheaper 5.1 audio systems.
 
If you're the type of person that needs 7 speakers, you won't be looking at any computer speaker sets. :p
 
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