[Needs Advice] The Endless Quest for a Gaming Display

geminox

geminox

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
173
I am looking for an Gaming LCD Display that can hopefully have these attributes:

- No Input Lag
- 5 second or less response time (preferably 2ms)
- Size ( Minimum of 17 - Maximum of 24 inches )
- Native Resolution of preferably 1024 x 768 ( Crazy I know ) but not exceeding 1280 x 1024.
- Can hopefully support a higher refresh rate than 60 hz ( because parting with my current 144hz CRT will be a little sad )

This LCD will primarily be used for gaming ( I'm a huge FPS kind of guy who needs every single frame without response times or any kind of input latency affecting my fragability).

I care not for

- Contrast ratios
- Color gamuts
- Viewing Angles
- Any other things that do not directly affect my 1:1 gaming experience.

PLEASE HELP, this has been an ongoing battle for sometime. The only LCD that I have seen that could possibly fit these requirements is the Viewsonic VX922. Hopefully someone can provide any input regarding this LCD and their gaming experience on it.

Thank you in advance. :D
 
Well I have no real recommendations for you atm, but I will say this.

with a max resolution of 1280x1024 you pretty much limited yourself to a 17" or a 19" 5:4 display.

NO LCD monitor can do more than 60Hz, when you set a monitor higher than 60Hz it just drops frames, which is bad.

Some TVs can do 120Hz but I hear they have there own problems.

go over to anandtech and look at the LCD thread in the video section, there is one 19" monitor that is recommended under HARDCORE gaming... Otherwise theres a 22" thats recommended as well but it is widescreen with a resolution of 1680x1050
 
Just so you know, I'm pretty sure no LCDs are available with the ability to go much, if any, beyond 60hz refresh rate.

Also, why do you need such a low resolution? I can understand a low input lag need, and, to an extent, response time (though that's pretty well a moot point these days), but what's with the super low res? Are you playing some graphically-intensive game on low specs, or is it for a different reason?
 
the low res is because he wants constant 60+ fps. possibly even constant 100fps.

i play cs1.6 pretty hardcore at 120hz/120fps on my CRT. wouldnt think about playing that game on a LCD..
 
Ryle said:
the low res is because he wants constant 60+ fps. possibly even constant 100fps.

i play cs1.6 pretty hardcore at 120hz/120fps on my CRT. wouldnt think about playing that game on a LCD..
Click to expand...

Definitely. There are some panels that I've seen in some LAN events that go 75+ and the games look very fluid, but I'm having a hard time trying to find those kinds of LCDs.

So far, from the Anandtech forum, the 22" LG L227WT looks like an interesting choice since they claim to have zero input lag but we're looking at a native resolution of 1.680 x 1.050 ( weird resolution ).

Are there any other recommendations? Should I wait for the next generation display technologies (OLED) ? Help!!!
 
Well... again, I'm pretty sure there aren't any LCDs on the market that can go beyond 60hz. I'm not sure which models you could have seen at your LAN events, but I suppose I could be wrong if they're new tech. Also, the human eye can't perceive more than 60 frames per second, so I'm not sure why'd you need more than that. And 1680x1050 is the standard resolution for 20" widescreen displays, and has been for a while. I'm not sure you'd want widescreen if you're playing CS, but I could be wrong.

I hate to be such a downer, but there seems to be a bit of hype going around that just doesn't have much base. As far as LCDs go, one can't do enough research; they're just a mess. I sincerely hope you find the right one for you.
 
I dont like going around saying the human eye can do this or that, I am no doctor I do not know.

I will say this though, LCDs wont be as good as CRTs for gaming, PERIOD, but they arent far off. I think though that 60Hz isn't the biggest problem, its that no matter what, there will always be the slight ghosting to LCDs, and its not exactly the monitors fault. It is how, from what I hear, we perceive the image. When using a LCD the image is constantly on, unlike a CRT which has to redraw the image every 60 times a second (or more, depending on refresh rate).. This is great for text because its easier on the eyes, but going from a solid image to another instantly can causes weird things to happen. Most people like myself either gets used to it, and doesnt notice this anymore, or never noticed it at all.... It just depends on you.

I could be wrong with this info, this is just what I gathered from looking around.

NO LCD monitor from what I know truly supports over 60Hz. Just because you can set the setting in windows to more than 60Hz, doesn't mean the monitor is running at that rate. It drops frames, which is bad.

I am not sure if CS supports WS, so that might be a big NO on that part..... Next gen tech could be many YEARS away from being affordable, so thats up to you.

Go to local place to look at monitors, look at the ones that you think meet your requirements, and do research on it.
 
I would think as a hard core gamer you would generally stick to CRT, as I can't think of any LCD that can display more than 60 frames per second.

You can turn Vsync off and get 100fps if need be, but it will tear on the screen worse than any CRT, but at least you won't be capped.

5ms vs 2ms is not necessarily a big deal. 2ms often is the Gray to gray time of a 5ms panel that has been "marketing optimized" to win on paper. Generally 2 vs. 5ms makes very little difference to reactivity.

I would say give the L227WT a try. The resolution is a normal 22" monitor resolution, and if you want to run it at a lower resolution let your video card do the scaling.

Either that or the LG W2252TQ are good choices. Some are partial to Samsung. I am not.

Get them from a store with good return policies (like a Bestbuy) so in case you aren't happy, you can return them.

Regards.

10e
 
probably doesnt steve. Probably just has the setting. Even some manufactures have claimed 75Hz but all they do is drop frames.
 
stevemedes said:
my friend has a benq 19" that does 75hz
Click to expand...

So do I, but my 19" BenQ just drops every 5th frame. On top of that the IQ was so bad I actually rma'd it thinking it was defective. They sent me a new one, it looked just as bad.

But, it was fast enough for most games @ 60hz. 75hz only made it look worse and less fluid.

OP, I would recommend that lcd for what you want. BenQ fg93x. I don't know if they are still available anywhere. However, with your criteria, I would recommend most any crt 19" or bigger. It don't have to be a flat ag if you don't care about iq, and even cheap crap 19"+ crt's can do 100 - 120hz at 800x600 or 1024x768 or even 1280x960.
 
redlinez33 said:
NO LCD monitor can do more than 60Hz, when you set a monitor higher than 60Hz it just drops frames, which is bad.
Click to expand...
That's not true. Some LCD monitors can do higher refresh rates without skipping frames, but they all seem to have TN panels. I used a Samsung 226BW that could definitely do 75 Hz without skipping frames, but I don't know if that applies to all the panels in the lottery. I could even get it to do 85 Hz, but then it shows a "not optimum mode" message and shuts off after a minute. What's annoying is during that minute, it works perfectly fine, so I don't know why they would block a perfectly usable mode. I've never seen motion that smooth on any other LCD monitor. I was amazed by the difference. It frustrates me that so many people think refresh rates don't matter on LCD monitors or that people can't tell the difference when it's obvious they've never seen the difference. I've also seen 120 Hz LCD HDTVs in action, and the motion is liquid smooth. That looks kind of odd for movies, but it would be great for games. I would love a true 120 Hz LCD monitor. Unfortunately, I've yet to see a non-TN LCD monitor that can even do 75 Hz without skipping frames.

Also, through some quirk, I was able to get the DoubleSight DS-263N to do 68 Hz at the native resolution without skipping frames, but then it has banding like 1080p does. That's the only LCD monitor I've used that could do more than 60 Hz at 1920x1200 without skipping frames. Oddly enough, I wasn't able to get higher refresh rates at lower resolutions without skipping frames.
 
Out of curiousity, Toasty, how do you know that your monitors aren't skipping frames when you set them to 75hz? Is there some kind of test? :confused:
 
It should be pretty obvious just by moving the mouse cursor or moving a window around. If it skips frames, the movement will have noticeable judder.
 
Problem with those 120hz TVs is that they use a processor to create "intermediate" frames and I am thinking that would really get the input lag up :(

I'm sure some have more than the $.75 processor in them to not create a huge lag effect, but getting most manufacturers to go that route would mean cutting their profits, and they wouldn't want consumers to be the reason their profits went down, especially because they put decent components in there :)

Regards,

10e


ToastyX said:
That's not true. Some LCD monitors can do higher refresh rates without skipping frames, but they all seem to have TN panels. I used a Samsung 226BW that could definitely do 75 Hz without skipping frames, but I don't know if that applies to all the panels in the lottery. I could even get it to do 85 Hz, but then it shows a "not optimum mode" message and shuts off after a minute. What's annoying is during that minute, it works perfectly fine, so I don't know why they would block a perfectly usable mode. I've never seen motion that smooth on any other LCD monitor. I was amazed by the difference. It frustrates me that so many people think refresh rates don't matter on LCD monitors or that people can't tell the difference when it's obvious they've never seen the difference. I've also seen 120 Hz LCD HDTVs in action, and the motion is liquid smooth. That looks kind of odd for movies, but it would be great for games. I would love a true 120 Hz LCD monitor. Unfortunately, I've yet to see a non-TN LCD monitor that can even do 75 Hz without skipping frames.

Also, through some quirk, I was able to get the DoubleSight DS-263N to do 68 Hz at the native resolution without skipping frames, but then it has banding like 1080p does. That's the only LCD monitor I've used that could do more than 60 Hz at 1920x1200 without skipping frames. Oddly enough, I wasn't able to get higher refresh rates at lower resolutions without skipping frames.
Click to expand...
 
HDTVs need a processor to create intermediate frames because the content is not 120 FPS. Computer monitors wouldn't need that.
 
I probably should of said no LCD monitor that I know of supports more than 60Hz at native resolution. There could be some out there, but I dont believe any are documented. Also I know there are LCD TVs that do 120Hz, but no monitors yet. I also never said over 60Hz wouldnt help (atleast i dont think i did) i just mentioned there are other inherit flaws with LCDs vs CRTs for gaming that are probably worse.
 
True, but I don't know up to what resolution that current digital display connections would support greater than 60hz. Even dual-link might have issues with 90hz at 1920x1080/1200 I would think, even with enhanced CVT blanking that works well with digital LCD displays.

Not sure about DisplayPort. I know that it has ability for higher bandwidth, but I'm too lazy to try and figure out how much is needed in comparison :)

Regards,

10e

ToastyX said:
HDTVs need a processor to create intermediate frames because the content is not 120 FPS. Computer monitors wouldn't need that.
Click to expand...
 
geminox said:
I am looking for an Gaming LCD Display that can hopefully have these attributes:

- No Input Lag
- 5 second or less response time (preferably 2ms)
- Size ( Minimum of 17 - Maximum of 24 inches )
- Native Resolution of preferably 1024 x 768 ( Crazy I know ) but not exceeding 1280 x 1024.
- Can hopefully support a higher refresh rate than 60 hz ( because parting with my current 144hz CRT will be a little sad )

This LCD will primarily be used for gaming ( I'm a huge FPS kind of guy who needs every single frame without response times or any kind of input latency affecting my fragability).

I care not for

- Contrast ratios
- Color gamuts
- Viewing Angles
- Any other things that do not directly affect my 1:1 gaming experience.

PLEASE HELP, this has been an ongoing battle for sometime. The only LCD that I have seen that could possibly fit these requirements is the Viewsonic VX922. Hopefully someone can provide any input regarding this LCD and their gaming experience on it.

Thank you in advance. :D
Click to expand...

Hello geminox.
I just went from the vx922 (great gaming monitor) to a Benq g2400w.
The benq is 'almost' as good as the vx in regards to ghosting/tearing (I noticed slight 'blurring' in quake 3 (do games get any faster than q3?) for the first couple hours. I no longer notice it now though).
I would say the input lag is actually better on the benq, as it has a steady lag, compared to the vx that 'jumps around'.
If you really want the low resolutions, go for the vx (if you can find it anywhere).
BUT, I will say that there really isnt much of a difference between the 2, even when I am gaming at 1920x1200 (although I do have 2x8800gt's).

Hope that helps.
 
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