Netbook suggestions (Am I being unreasonable?)

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xFROSTx

2[H]4U
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Jun 8, 2001
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I know this has been covered before and I apologize. I've done some research, but I feel like I'm searching for a needle in a haystack here. I think my demands might be a little steep, so I'm hoping some experts here can guide me in the right direction on what to sacrifice and what no to.

Basically, I'm happy with the performance of my 2 year old Dell M1330 (2.6Ghz Core 2 Duo, GeForce 8400M GS, 7200 rpm sata hard drive). Email and web browsing are what I use it for 90% of the time, but I also play 1080p MKV files on it occasionally when I'm traveling. I just want to find something that is smaller, lighter and better battery life. I'm also hoping that with a few upgrades, this netbook could be a mini entertainment center as well. With this in mind, I have created 3 lists; wants, needs and stuff I don't care about. I was hoping to get some recommendations based off this.


Needs:
-Good battery life. Preferably 6 hours or more (probably gonna need the extended life battery for this), but anything over 4 would be just fine.
-Screen size in the 10-12 inch range. 10 or 11 would be preferable, but 13 is too much for what I'm looking for.
-Light. Looking for < 4lbs, preferably < 3lbs.
-Touchpad. Wont be using an external mouse and I hate touch sticks.
-Good screen options. An LED based backlight would be preferable and I don't mind high resolutions on small screens.
-Ability to run Windows 7 x64 Professional.

Wants:
-Ram upgradable to more than 2GB. I see most models are limited to 2 GB for some reason. I'm addicted to Win7 w/4Gb of RAM now lol.
-Laptop design where the extended battery does not stick out like the computer has a deformity. I understand that more cells=more space, but are decent aesthetics too much to ask for?
-Decent video card. I know that this comes at the expense of battery life, but I have come across some Intel based video cards that come to a crawl with 1080p MKVs.
-Ability to run Windows 7MC. I have a Win7 MC server which would be awesome to stream from vs. my current option of transferring the files with a flash drive.
-If it had an integrated TV tuner, I would be in heaven!

Don't care about:
-Hard drive: I will be upgrading this to a spare SSD I have already.
-RAM amount: Again, I will be upgrading this myself with extra parts I have.
-Software suite: I have all the software I need for it already, Including a copy of Win7 x64 Pro.
-Optical drive: Hardly ever use them anymore...
-Price. $600 would be on the steep side, but if it has the features, I don't mind paying for them. Then again, if there is something for $300 that can do 90% of what I'm looking for, I'd still be happy.


Even after typing this up, I feel it's a little scatterbrained. I work in IT (staging laptops/desktops, desktop support, network engineering, etc), so I'm not a complete idiot with unreasonable expectations. We don't use netbooks though, and I don't have any friends that have one either, so I have never really had a chance to use one. I think most of my stupidity comes from not understanding how today's ultra low power mobile processors and video cards compare to current and older technology. I'm not expecting to get the same performance as my Phenom x4 @3.2 w/RAID 0 SSDs, but if I'm paying 500 or so for this, I want a performance increase over my current Dell. If that's unreasonable, I might just want to go with a $200 Dell Mini 10 (1018) and be happy with not needing a coffee table to put my laptop on when I want to use the computer on the couch. :)
 
-Decent video card. I know that this comes at the expense of battery life, but I have come across some Intel based video cards that come to a crawl with 1080p MKVs.

This one might be a little hard to meet. I know the Nvidia ION chips will at least give you good video playback, but I don't know how well they game. If gaming is not important to you, then that Asus the user above posted would work great. If, however, gaming is important, I'd suggest looking at the Alienware m11x. It might be a bit on the expensive/heavy side for what you want, but it has a great GPU.

Another good option would be this Acer: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115821
I had an older Core2Solo version and thought it was the perfect balance of power and size in the ultra-portable/netbook range.
 
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I think I may have found something for you:
$600 - Acer Aspire TimelineX AS1830T-3927

It meets:
Needs:
- Supposedly 8 hour battery life. So more than likely 4-6 hours real world
- 11.6" Screen size
- Weighs 3.06 lbs.
- Touchpad
- LED Backlight screen
- Runs Windows 7 Home Premium

Wants:
- Has 3GB of RAM alrady. But can't find out if it can be upgraded to 4GB. But two RAM slots though.
- Doesn't need extended battery because it meets your more than 4 hour requirement
- The onboard GPU of the Core i3 CPU can easily handle 1080P HD content. Hence why it's been recommended for quite a few HD HTPCs out there. Just gotta use the right codec/player and you'll be fine.Yeah it's Intel but it's pretty decent.
- Should run Windows 7 MC just fine.
- No integrated TV Tuner.
 
orangeblue said:
This one might be a little hard to meet. I know the Nvidia ION chips will at least give you good video playback, but I don't know how well they game.
Click to expand...

IIRC in some cases the ION was CPU bound. It's only a GF8400 equivalent so it's not capable of handling anything except old games even on a 1024x600 screen.
 
Possibly?

Just giving input since the Sony Z is out of your range
 
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Thinkpad x100e? Get the dual core Turion model. However battery life is still pretty poor (~3 hours).
 
orangeblue said:
-Decent video card. I know that this comes at the expense of battery life, but I have come across some Intel based video cards that come to a crawl with 1080p MKVs.

This one might be a little hard to meet. I know the Nvidia ION chips will at least give you good video playback, but I don't know how well they game. If gaming is not important to you, then that Asus the user above posted would work great. If, however, gaming is important, I'd suggest looking at the Alienware m11x. It might be a bit on the expensive/heavy side for what you want, but it has a great GPU.

Another good option would be this Acer: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834115821
I had an older Core2Solo version and thought it was the perfect balance of power and size in the ultra-portable/netbook range.
Click to expand...



First off, thanks for the great responses guys! Incredibly helpful!

To clarify, I do absolutely 0 PC gaming these days. In fact, I think the last PC game I bought was Diablo II. Hahaha, now I feel old.

The extent of my GPU needs are limited to 1080P video playback. Like I mentioned before, I know some of the older Intel based video solutions in laptops I have used struggle with this. I know that my current M1330 with a 8400 GS has no problem with HD content, but a similar M1330 with the Intel based 945 GPU will stutter with HD content. Granted this is 2 year old technology, so if today's modem GPUs in netbooks are perfectly capable of handling HD content, that's all I need. After looking at some of these recommendations, I'm wondering if I would be just as happy with a $200-$300 dell mini 10 that I mentioned before. Like I mentioned before, 95% of my usage is email and web browsing. Spending an extra $300 for just media center doesn't seem like very good bang for your buck.

I have 2 questions now:

1 - How are the AMD based netbooks? I've never really used one. I know it may not be true all the time, but I have heard for a long time that Intel has better battery life/performance in this market.

2 - How does the Intel NM10 GPU I see in some of the cheaper netbooks handle HD content?
 
The new Asus 1215N seems to be right up your alley.

* Intel Dual Core Atom D525 (1.8GHz); Nvidia ION 2 graphics with 512mb dedicated video memory
* 12.1" WXGA (1366x768) LED screen; 2GB DDR3 RAM (2x1GB), 4GB Max
* 250GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM); No Optical Drive
* Windows 7 Home Premium Operating System (32 Bit)
* HDMI out; Wi-Fi 802.11b/g/n; 10/100 LAN; 0.3MP Webcam

From the reviews I've read it seems to be the ideal netbook. The touchpad is a lot better than previous iterations, the Ion 2 isn't awful (it's not amazing, but it's not awful), six hour of battery life is stretching it (more like 3:30 when watching 720p video at 70% brightness). It's upgradable to 4gb (one of my requirements as well).

I can honestly say that I will be buying this in the near future. It's also under $500.

Amazon Link

Edit: Forgot link
 
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xFROSTx said:
2 - How does the Intel NM10 GPU I see in some of the cheaper netbooks handle HD content?
Click to expand...

Well, the problem with your question is that it's inherently vague. HD content can be easy or difficult to play, depending on how it's encoded, and whether or not your media player/codec supports GPU decoding. What kind of HD content will you be watching?
 
black0ut said:
What kind of HD content will you be watching?
Click to expand...
He has already stated that he'll mostly be playing back 1080p material. I'm assuming MKVs and the like.

Atom+standard Intel chipset usually has enough power to handle up to 720p content, depending on the software used. More than that and it's a no go, you'll need hardware decoding. Also, since there is no FullHD, sub-13'' netbook screen, and neither 945GSE nor GMA 3150 support HDMI/DVI out, video quality would probably suffer.

Taking a step up from single-core Atom+945GSE/NM10, you have plenty of options with hardware decoding capabilities for 1080p material:

1) Z-series Atom CPUs, which come with the GMA 500 IGP, capable of HD decoding. Usually kind of pricey (but long-lasting) netbooks, though.

2) Atom+CrystalHD card. If you find ANY netbook with two miniPCIe slots (or can live with using an external USB WLAN dongle), Broadcom has a couple of dedicated chips that handle HD decoding. You'll still be limited by the lack of digital outputs, but just about any laptop can use one of this cards. They add $30-$60 to the price of the lappy, and I believe the Dell Mini had it as an option. The chip's model is BCM70012 (or the newest one, the 70015, which can decode even more stuff).

2) ION or ION2, VERY rare, especially 1st-gen IONs (and ION2 is rather new).

3) CULV+GM/GS45. GMA X4500HD can handle FullHD decoding, though software support (and driver issues) sometimes limit its usefulness.

4) Corei3/i5-based machines. The new embedded Intel IGPs are some of the most advanced in terms of features, only rivaled by the discreet 5000-series ATI GPUs (and possibly the new 450/460 NVIDIA cards, though I'm not 100% sure) since it can handle outputting just about any audio via HDMI.

I don't believe Corei3/i5 machines are cheap enough to fit your budget, so out they go. Same for most Z-series netbooks.

ION was only used on two netbooks, I believe. Asus's 1210PN (if memory serves me right), and an HP one, using the "light" version of the chipset. Both were not very good netbooks. The new ION shares the framebuffer over PCIe 1x, and ability to handle 1080p correctly is still debatable (haven't seen any reviews on it).

The CULV aproach is, for me, the best bang/buck solution: everything but the kitchen sink at a reasonable price. And especially if you can get your hands on an Acer 1810TZ (TZ, not T, the T only has a single-core CPU), you'll get a Pentium SU4100, 3GB of RAM, 250GB HDD, 1366x768 11.6'' screen and 8+ HOURS of REAL battery life :eek:. Last time I saw one of these puppies it was on sale at &#8364;399.

Hope this helps.

Miguel
 
__Miguel_ said:
2) Atom+CrystalHD card. If you find ANY netbook with two miniPCIe slots (or can live with using an external USB WLAN dongle), Broadcom has a couple of dedicated chips that handle HD decoding. You'll still be limited by the lack of digital outputs, but just about any laptop can use one of this cards. They add $30-$60 to the price of the lappy, and I believe the Dell Mini had it as an option. The chip's model is BCM70012 (or the newest one, the 70015, which can decode even more stuff).
Click to expand...

Unless they refreshed the line in the last month or so. the current generation of Dell Minis don't offer 720p screens or a broadcom decoder. I have an ASUS 1005PR which has both. It plays 720p flash flawlessly, I've not tried 1080 because I don't have any need (read ripped bluerays) for it.
 
DanNeely said:
Unless they refreshed the line in the last month or so. the current generation of Dell Minis don't offer 720p screens or a broadcom decoder.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the correction on the Broadcom decoder. I got that impression after I saw a review of a Dell Mini with it. Must have been a user add-on, then.

As for the screen, yes, the vast majority of netbooks these days still leave the factory with sub-HD displays. The OP didn't seem too worried about that, though, so I didn't even bother to point it out... Curious thing, though, is that 1280x720/800 is actually all that is needed for 720p stuff. Found that out the other day when I was reading about the HP TM2 tablet: it can display 720p content without "shrinkage", and its screen is not "768p". :)
 
More likely an old review. Dell did have a broadcom+720p screen model in their first generation (but crippled it with the slower Z5xx atoms), but dropped all the non-commodity models from their refresh.
 
DanNeely said:
IIRC in some cases the ION was CPU bound. It's only a GF8400 equivalent so it's not capable of handling anything except old games even on a 1024x600 screen.
Click to expand...

I know it (8400GS-M) could not handle 1080p on my dell vostro 1400 whwn hooked up to an external monitor lol....stuttered like mad on hgh bit-rate materials.
 
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