New CPU For P45 T2RS

Z

Zybortrix

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Messages
70
[H]i,

I've had the P45 T2RS for months but been too scared to do anything with it. Well, not exactly, i've also been extremely satisfied with my P5E VM and due to the complexity of the DFI OC thing vs the simplicity of the Asus OC thing i just never had the urge to experiment with the DFI board. . . until now.

Here's my current rig:

Asus P5E VM HDMI
e6850
4 x 1 GB Dominator 1066 (the Qimonda stuff)
Velociraptor
4870X2
HX 620
NT06-E
SG03

I run 24/7 @ 450 FSB 1:1 with 1000 mhz RAM. Can pull out 500 FSB for pissing contests with little trouble. Awesome system, but a bit warm!

And here's the plan:

DFI P45 T2RS
A new CPU (help me out here)
2 x 2 GB OCZ Platinum 1066 (the Dominator since the D9 days were over just honestly aren't that special. . . I suspect this OCZ kit will kick the DOMs ass)
Potentailly the stock new CPU cooler (wanna try active).
SG03

Have no idea on what i can expect OC wise. I'm more interested in FSB than raw clock speed. 1:1 is the shit.

I have everything listed except a second CPU (the P5E VM will become a media centre).

I'm going to retire the e6850 for a 45 nm chip - it's a temp thing but also an 'end of an era' thing. With Core i7 now on the field i kinda want my P45 T2RS build to be "the last of the great and proud 775's".

So, what to do?

I'm currently leaning towards an e8400 but i'm also tempted by the quads. The thing is the Q9450 was replaced by the piece of poo Q9X00's and the Q9550 is out of my budget for this exercise so i'm even considering a good old die hard rock solid Q6600 (i know, i know, it's hotter and it's 65nm. . .)

I just don't know what would best suit this . . . fussy. . . P45 T2RS and the temps of a SUGO. . . (P5E VM is a fucking HOT board. . .i believe half my problem is ambient. . .)

I've never even booted the bitch and the ABS thing and DFI's grimoire like BIOS kinda scares me.

Anyway, any suggestions on the new CPU? I won't be building a Core i7 until the kind of games i ike to play are noticeably bottlenecked by 775 CPU's - which i can't foresee happening for quite some time.

So what do you suggest?

Thanks for reading and any advice you have to share.
 
If you are on a budget, look for an E8400 E0 stepping.

If you have a little more to spend get an E8600 for the higher multiplier.

I thought I read something somewhere about the DFI board having trouble with the half multiplier E8500. Also some people have had issues with the DFI board and quads, but I don't know if thats based in reality or FUD.
 
Hi,

At the moment I'm running the DFI board with a q6600 in a Lanbox lite with some good results.

I know what you mean re DFI's oc complexity, but as long as you follow the usual steps (turn off most advanced features except for thermal throttle and vt, if you use it, and take voltage off auto) it's not all that bad.

I faced the same problem re precessor choice, was tossing up between the e8400 and Q6600. I guess it really depends what you're going to do with it, I do a fair bit of encoding in addition to gaming, but GTA IV's reliance on quad cores was what pushed me in that direction.

At the moment I'm runnign the Q6600 G0 stepping @ 3.015ghz at something like 7x 440. Rock solid so far, primes at 73 which is way warmer than what I'd like it to be, though it's on the stock cooler and never goes over 67ish whilst encoding on all four cores.

The sg03 has better airflow than the lanbox, though if I'm correct you're limited to cpu coolers <70mm in height. Might want to look at watercooling setup like the swiftech compact if you're so inclined. But yeah, I'd go the q6600/q6700/q9450 before a dual core for futureproofing.
 
There is no point in buying a new mobo. The only thing that would make sense is if you wanted to use crossfire (which you do not, I assume, you already have an X2 in there). If you think that the DFI board will run cooler, you are mistaken. From 1 board to the other the change might be a couple of watts at the most, and it's not sure which one is the most frugal. I think you are mistaken in thinking that the heat issue comes from your mobo. AT best if you're worried about the temperatures of your northbridge you can swap its cooler (if it fits in a SG03). Maybe your CPU is heating a lot: this I can understand, 450MHz (what CPU frequency?) on a 6850 passively cooled is huge in terms of heat.

Now you can start by changing the CPU and see how that works. Maybe next up is the RAM. Now at the end if you really want to do it, change the mobo.

Forget about the E8600. not worth it in your context. Let me explain: if you intend to run 450MHZ+ on your bus, then making use of the x10 multiplier will push you to 4.5GHz+. Achievable on air, but clearly not passively or with Intel stock cooler. And most low profile coolers are blow-down so it won't work well in a SG03 (compete with PSU). So a 9 multiplier is more than enough, ie E8400 or Q6600. But the Q6600 will need to stay at x8 max probably with a bus of 450+ because of heat again. You could go with a Q9400 or 9550 which will run cooler but I have no idea about your budget and how well they clock.

RAM-wise, you don't need new DIMMs because you're far from reaching the limit of your current ones: to run them at their 1066 spec on a 1:1 you'd need 533 on your bus which you don't do yet. The limit at this point is your CPU. Get a E8400 and run 533 if that's stable enough and your DIMMs will be happy. BUT why insist on 1:1? Select a 5:6 ratio and with a bus of 450 your RAM is running at 1080!! Perfect! (remember to use the FSB to Northbridge strap of 333 when you run these high bus frequencies). So with a E8400 stepping E0 (which will run a lot cooler than your E6850), you can get 450*9 with your RAM running at 1080. The only question is will your NT-06 be enough.
 
Interesting.

And yeah i do in fact run my RAM @ 1080mhz on a 7 x 450 CPU clock. ;)

As to not needing a new motherboard, it's not an issue because i already have it and have had it for a while. I had ordered the 4870X2 to compliment my P5E VM HDMI but when i went to pick it up, on the shelf with an A4 piece of paper with my name scrawled across it was also the P45 T2RS.

"Oh my. . . is that for me?"

"Yea, i got myself one after you told me about it and got another one for you if you were still interested."

The initial dilemma of 4870X2 (ultimate single slot solution) vs crossfire capable DFI micro did register immediately but i simply couldn't refuse the good fortune or the good gesture, so i grabbed both products then and there. Silly perhaps but that's history. Again, this was around October last year.

The situation at the moment is that i have gutted my SG03 and built my HTPC using the P5E VM HDMI, e6850 and Dominator kit as a base. I have an HD 3870 or 9600GT (both by Gigabyte) to throw in there (i'm undecided as to which is better).

As for the SG03 build, i have the P45 T2RS, the NT06 E, HX 620 watt PSU, 4 Gig Kit of OCZ platinum 1066 (far lower profile than the Dominators for better airflow - although the green PCB doesn't excite me. . . lol i'm a little sick with my preferences sometimes but hey in a SG03 with the sleeve off the RAM is about the only identifiable piece of hardware you can see) and the 4870X2.

I confess that perhaps the 4870X2 would be better suited to the HTPC for serious 1080p gaming and that i should pick up 2 4850's for the DFI (as i use 22" 1680 x 1050) monitor on my desk.

The problem is i have no second CPU and couldn't afford a pair of 4850's and a new CPU (Q9400 or Q9550 at this point). I've been a bit reckless this Christmas break. . . Asus N10jc, VX Nano, Logitech MX5500 Blue tooth keyboard and mouse combo, tournament edition Belkin N52, and that's just on myself. :D

So yea at this point i'm trying to just finish what is the end of an era as cheaply as possible without skimping on hardware. I only require one thing; a CPU and thanks to your comments and the fact that finally Quad support in gaming should become standard i've decided to either get a Q9400 or Q9550 (there's only about $80 AU difference between them).

On the heat front i've concluded that the Dominators obscured much of the airflow in my P5E VM in addition to the stock NB heatsink becoming quickly heatsoaked (and that radiating heat being pulled up through the NT06 E) but although the DFI boards cooling solution is alot more substantial i have noticed that the placement of the motherboard power socket on the DFI is also an issue in an SG03. On the P5E VM HDMI it's right between the 120mm fans, on the LP Jr it's essentially right in front of the topmost fan. Gah.

On the quad front, are either going to run cooler than an e6850? I would be thinking no, due to the increased power draw. I should say that my temps were never out of control but idling on 46 - 48 degrees Celsius was always a little bit of a sore point. I suppose that's not too shabby at 450 FSB but higher than that with a similar bus speed on a quad and i'm not sure about how much of an upgrade it's going to feel to me - if the NT06 E can pull it off at all . . .

Anyway there's only about $80AU difference between the Q9400 and Q9550 so i'm thinking of grabbing the latter. I really love the SG03 i'm committed to keeping it even though it alone is probably the most substantial factor concerning heat when running such high end components.

I kinda feel that this is a bit of a nothing thread, perhaps too self absorbed but i really value the opinions of the community here as this board is what converted my to small form factor love in the first place.

Forget about the E8600. not worth it in your context. Let me explain: if you intend to run 450MHZ+ on your bus, then making use of the x10 multiplier will push you to 4.5GHz+. Achievable on air, but clearly not passively or with Intel stock cooler. And most low profile coolers are blow-down so it won't work well in a SG03 (compete with PSU). So a 9 multiplier is more than enough, ie E8400 or Q6600. But the Q6600 will need to stay at x8 max probably with a bus of 450+ because of heat again. You could go with a Q9400 or 9550 which will run cooler but I have no idea about your budget and how well they clock.
Click to expand...

Concerning a blow down cooler, i've already replaced the stock HX 620 fan with a Noctua P12 which i ran off the CPU fan header on the mobo and i was thinking that with a blow down cooler i could simply remount it upside down in the PSU so that it pulls in cool air and pushes it down with the CPU cooler instead. This would mean that all the fans in the case are intake fans so i'm not sure where exactly the hot air would exhaust to (aside from the 4870x2's rear) but i'm kinda interested in finding out.

Hmmm . . to be continued i guess.
 
If you are thinking about a Q9550, I'll tell you what to do instead, budget-wise: get a E7300 and with the money you saved and selling your 9600 and 38xx you get 2 4850s. Job done!
 
NichoTL said:
If you are thinking about a Q9550, I'll tell you what to do instead, budget-wise: get a E7300 and with the money you saved and selling your 9600 and 38xx you get 2 4850s. Job done!
Click to expand...

:D

And if you were feeling reckless?
 
Zybortrix said:
:D

And if you were feeling reckless?
Click to expand...

Dunno really. Personally I could have an unlimited budget for my rig if I wanted to, but I find it more fun to squeeze out great performance for small value. But I have a feeling that You are feeling a little reckless at the moment and that your Q9550 is already on its way... ;)
 
NichoTL said:
Personally I could have an unlimited budget for my rig if I wanted to, but I find it more fun to squeeze out great performance for small value.
Click to expand...

Respect and you're right that's what it's usually all about (i build, tweak, upgrade and recommend thrifty systems all the time), but this rig is my alpha rig - it's all about spastic oomph.

So on to the update.

I settled for a Q9400 which is a certainly bad ass chip so it's all good. I decided to go with the stock cooler (yea. . .) because i don't have another orb (and it's clear that many popular orbs will even fit in a T2RS . . .) but i did reverse the Noctua P12 in my HX 620 so that it draws air in from the back of the chassis and then down onto the stock Intel cooler.

Air flow from the front top P12 is fantastic, much better than my P5E VM HDMI configuration largely due to the OCZ sticks and the slim profile of the new stock Intel coolers (vs the NT06 E - which is a great passive cooler but more on this later). There's a gap big enough to get my hand in between the PSU and Intel cooler and i've done a respectable job of cable management considering the layout of the SG03.

I'll post pics when i get my camera back.

For now some CPU Z and Hardware Monitor:

FirstRun-1.jpg


So yes, i've not installed ABS but from BIOS itself the system had no issues booting straight to 400 FSB @ 3200mhz 5:6 RAM ratio on auto voltage. This is excellent because my P5E VM HDMI was similarly capable with minimal tweaks.

However, the temperature idle is still high (well, what i consider to be high as i used to be a full tower nut with gargantuan coolers running my chips in 20's Celsius). It's still not a terrible thing as is (cos it's very stable) but if i can shave off another 5 degrees or more with an aftermarket cooler (that doesn't sound like a hurricane) i'll be happy.

I'm sure the NT06 E would cope with this too (in standard PSU configuration) but i wanted to experiment with the reverse PSU fan direction and after looking at the results i don't think the NT06 would do much better (as i was on 48 - 50 Celsius with a e6850 @ 450 FSB).

Hmm unlike my P5E build the top right of the SGO3 is warm - the hot air isn't escaping as well as it could (perhaps not surprising considering there's no dedicated exhaust fan anymore). This wasn't the case previously so i was never interested in a blow hole mod or even just a grill but i might go ahead with that after all.

But first i'm in the market for a cooler (to complete the system until a 4870X2 and 3200mhz quad will only allow medium settings with no AA and no shadows in a majority of titles - lol) and i'll throw it out here:

For those of you who own an SUGO and the P45 T2RS what coolers are you using, orb or otherwise?
 
Q9400 is a good choice I think. But can I ask why you changed the PSU fan in the first place, apart from feeling reckless? :)
 
q9400 is a crap choice.You're going to find the q9550 at that same price in the very near future, maybe next week. Overclocked q66 and q94, q66 wins.
 
lowteckh said:
q9400 is a crap choice.You're going to find the q9550 at that same price in the very near future, maybe next week. Overclocked q66 and q94, q66 wins.
Click to expand...

So what was he supposed to do: not buy anything? And wait for next gen or lower prices? He needed to buy something. I'd prefer the Q6600 myself but overclocked it would produce probably too much heat for a SG03.
 
He had a e6850 and a complete system before if you bothered looking at the first post itself. Overclocked even just to 3ghz or 3.2 shouldn't pose a problem for a NT06 in a SG03. The SG01 is more confining with no active fan intake at all to the cpu while the SG03 at least has a 120mm in the front. An e84 can be pushed to 4ghz to temp limits, and 3.6 without any temp issues; A quad isn't going to be zomg hotter if you're thinking about saying it. Hence, crap choice.
 
lowteckh said:
He had a e6850 and a complete system before if you bothered looking at the first post itself. Overclocked even just to 3ghz or 3.2 shouldn't pose a problem for a NT06 in a SG03. The SG01 is more confining with no active fan intake at all to the cpu while the SG03 at least has a 120mm in the front. An e84 can be pushed to 4ghz to temp limits, and 3.6 without any temp issues; A quad isn't going to be zomg hotter if you're thinking about saying it. Hence, crap choice.
Click to expand...

And if you had bothered to look that's exactly what I said originally: he would be better served by a Duo. But he wanted a Quad. I'm not gonna go around to his house and kneecap him because he didn't follow my advice. He said it: he was feeling reckless. Not me. I couldn't care less.
 
Discussion was regarding choice of chip. Just because he bought it doesn't mean it can't be brought up.
 
lowteckh said:
Discussion was regarding choice of chip. Just because he bought it doesn't mean it can't be brought up.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I agree with you he would have been better served by a E8400 E0. Why is the Q9400 such a bad choice compared to the Q9550?
 
lowteckh said:
Cache and low multi.
Click to expand...

8 vs 8.5 that's not a huge diff for the multi. And the influence of the amount of cache in gaming depends very much on the game. Some games (very few) make use of it and then the performance impact is quite small, if I remember correctly (was it Tom's Hardware). Anyway, YMMV as they say.
 
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