New house networking - need advice on network, hardware and entertainment system

[Meeho]

We are building a new family house and I am in charge of the IT stuff. I've done basic small home/office networking before so this is the first project of this scope I'm doing, but I'm looking forward to learn as I go.

Basic idea:
- 4 story house (basement + three floors)
- networking/server center in the basement
- CAT6a UTP cabling
- conduits to living rooms and bedrooms with ports near the floor, in the main hallways near the ceiling for WiFi APs, to several outside spots for IP cameras (and possibly a backyard AP)
- 4-port wall panels in the two living rooms near the HiFi/TV area
- 2x 2-port panels in bedrooms on the opposite sides of the room
- 1-port for APs/cameras

Basement server room:
- ADSL modem
- main server - ESXi box:
..........1. Pfsense - firewall, DHCP, VPN
..........2. Windows 7 - HTPC server (Plex)
..........3. Windows 7 - Ubiquiti management, IP cameras control
- FreeNAS box - 6x 3TB in RAID 10
- 48-port managed 1Gbps Layer3 switch - thinking of Ubiquiti ES-48-500W (was HP 1920-48G-PoE+)
- patch panel

House:
- several small HTPC boxes (Plex clients) for TVs
- an Ubiquity AP per floor located in hallways near the center of the house and closer to ceiling
- a desktop PC and a network printer
- wireless laptops/phones/tablets, maybe speakers for kitchen/bathrooms

Questions (random):
- Any obvious faults with the above? Suggestions/corrections/general advice to tell the builders?
- Is the number of ports (4 for living room, 2x2 for bedrooms) overkill?
- Is there a reason to put LAN cabling in kitchens/bathrooms?

- I would like to have some speakers in the kitchens and bathrooms. Instead of installing them in the ceiling, dealing with special amplifiers and whatnot, I was thinking of standalone bluetooth speakers and have tablets/phones connect to them and play music/radio from the Plex server. Is there a better way to do it? Some fixed wall touch screens or something?

- Should the alarm system have its own separate conduits and cabling?

- Any home entertainment or automation systems I should consider?

I have more questions about server hardware and such, but this will do for now

Thank you all in advance!

 

[pendragon1]

looks good. yes the alarm should be separate and toss in a good UPS too.

 

[BlueLineSwinger]

You're not running 10Gb ethernet, there's absolutely no need to run Cat6/6a:
- The cable, jacks, etc. are more expensive.
- It's more difficult to properly install. The cable is thicker (i.e., wall install will be more cramped), it's more sensitive about bend radius, and harder to properly terminate.
- Cat 5e is perfectly adequate for anything done in the home outside of rare edge cases. Properly installed, 1Gb connectivity is a given to 100 meters.
- Cat 6/6a will not give your network any extra resiliency. If there are interference sources that are disrupting the signal (incredibly unlikely in a home) Cat 5e will perform just as well.
- You are not future-proofing by installing Cat 6/6a. The only way to future-proof an install is to make it easy to pull out and replace any outdated cabling and install its replacement (e.g., use conduit).

 

[Red Squirrel]

No reason NOT to go cat6, unless you got some cat5e cable for free or something. They're practically the same price. Monoprice is your friend for keystones and other stuff. Cat5e WILL be fine for gigabit, but if you're buying cable anyway there's just no reason not to go cat6.

Never understood this stuff about cat6 being harder to terminate or work with. Now let's talk about fibre, that's another issue. Need really expensive tools.

 

[BlueLineSwinger]

No reason NOT to go cat6, unless you got some cat5e cable for free or something. They're practically the same price. Monoprice is your friend for keystones and other stuff. Cat5e WILL be fine for gigabit, but if you're buying cable anyway there's just no reason not to go cat6.

Never understood this stuff about cat6 being harder to terminate or work with. Now let's talk about fibre, that's another issue. Need really expensive tools.

Well, for Cat6 specifically, the main reason to not go with it is that literally no spec calls for it. And, if you do have to do 10Gb, you can't get the full 100M out of it. The distance drops further once you start bundling multiple runs together. Cat6 cross-talk rejection is not good enough to properly support 10Gb.

The specs for terminating Cat6/6a are much more precise about how much sleeve you can strip, how much you can untwist the pairs, etc. You can terminate Cat6 the same as you would Cat5/5e, but then you further reduce its ability to handle 10Gb such that you may as well have just run Cat5e anyways.

 

[Meeho]

There will be a UPS in the server room. Any reason to go with rack mounted compared to standrard SOHO UPS?

I was planning to go with CAT6A for possible 10GbE upgrade between any two points in the future and because the price difference between it and CAT5E cables/jacks/panels is miniscule compared to the rest of the setup. I will leave strings in the conduits for easier future pulls, but I don't think it's worth it to save a small amount not going with CAT6A from the start. Also seems better if I get a need for HDMI over ethernet.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Rackmount UPS would be ideal but very expensive, but if you can get one for cheap or want to pay it will most likely be more robust than a SOHO one. Some more expensive ones may even be pure sine. You can also add extended run battery packs, and they'll have nice management features.

 

[Deleted member 126051]

As for "should you include a network drop in the kitchen".

Since you have everything open now, if you're planning on building something like a "breakfast bar" or something, I'd say drop a set of ports in. Even if you just cover them up for now. They give you the option down the road.

 

[Dead Parrot]

Extra ports are almost always a good idea. Far easier and cheaper to install now with open walls then later when you have to cut finished walls then fix and repaint. Consider running empty conduit to locations where you think you might have need later. Don't even have to run cable. Just mark on your house plans where the empty conduit is. Include a pull string in all conduits, Even ones with cables.

Consider setting aside a small space on each floor for a mini hub closet. Power outlet and empty conduit run to basement. May never need them but easy to do now. Much harder later. Could be the top shelf in a clothes closet or similar.

Give some consideration to installing a larger UPS in the basement and using it to also provide protection to your home security and entertainment systems. The power outlets in the mini hub closets could also be powered from this UPS.

 

[Meeho]

Extra ports are almost always a good idea. Far easier and cheaper to install now with open walls then later when you have to cut finished walls then fix and repaint. Consider running empty conduit to locations where you think you might have need later. Don't even have to run cable. Just mark on your house plans where the empty conduit is. Include a pull string in all conduits, Even ones with cables.

I was reluctant to go with so many ports as I can't see a need for so many right now, but this is a good idea. I think I'll go with 2 ports per bedroom and run an empty conduit to the opposite wall.

Consider setting aside a small space on each floor for a mini hub closet. Power outlet and empty conduit run to basement. May never need them but easy to do now. Much harder later. Could be the top shelf in a clothes closet or similar.

What do you mean by this? A space for a possible extra switch on that floor? What would it be for?

Give some consideration to installing a larger UPS in the basement and using it to also provide protection to your home security and entertainment systems. The power outlets in the mini hub closets could also be powered from this UPS.

Do alarm systems come with their own power backup or is it something for me to provide? If it is the latter, yeah, a beefier UPS might be a good idea. How much power does an alarm system pull?

 

[Meeho]

I've been pointed to Ubiquiti switches and they seem really good. ES-48-500W has a bigger PSU for PoE and seems to have all the features and throughput performance I would need, but is much cheaper than HP 1920. Anyone have experience with these? Are they reliable?

As for the NAS and VM server, I had this in mind:

NAS:
Intel Core i3-4130
Supermicro X10SLM-F M-ATX
2x8GB KINGSTON KVR16E11/8I 8GB 1600 ECC
6x WD Red 3TB 30EFRX in RAID10
~450W Seasonic/XFX PSU
Fractal Design Define R5

ESXi - Pfsense + Win7 Plex server + Win7 cameras and Ubiquity APs management:
Intel Core i7-4790K
Supermicro X10SLM-F M-ATX
2x8GB non-ECC RAM
128 GB SSD
~450W Seasonic/XFX PSU
Fractal Design Define R5


- Any suggestion for a case with at least 12 HDD bays and quiet 120/140mm fans? Might be good to plan for future NAS expansion options.

- How does Supermicro IPMI work? Will I be able to connect to it from anywhere and have a complete view of the system as if I was looking at a physically connected monitor? Is it like an advance VNC and I would be able to do all BIOS setup, ESXi VM management and guest OS usage via IPMI?

 

[schizrade]

Well, for Cat6 specifically, the main reason to not go with it is that literally no spec calls for it. And, if you do have to do 10Gb, you can't get the full 100M out of it. The distance drops further once you start bundling multiple runs together. Cat6 cross-talk rejection is not good enough to properly support 10Gb.

The specs for terminating Cat6/6a are much more precise about how much sleeve you can strip, how much you can untwist the pairs, etc. You can terminate Cat6 the same as you would Cat5/5e, but then you further reduce its ability to handle 10Gb such that you may as well have just run Cat5e anyways.

This is 100% true. Improper cat6 is a mess and I have never seen anybody actually use it for 10GbE. I don't think it is there frankly. OP, you would be better served making the backbone 10Gb ready with cheap fiber and some extra switches.

10Gb fiber patch between floors and have a switch on each floor for distribution to cat5e patch panels. You can use 1Gb gbics until you upgrade to 10GbE switches and modules and repull your copper, cause cat6 whatever wont cut it. I use a good amount of 10Gb connections in my work servers, but it is optical or DAC (twin-ax) SFP+ deals.


*edit* oh and it is not LAPC, it is LACP, Link Aggregation Control Protocol.

 

[Meeho]

CAT6 is neither here nor there, but CAT6A should be a-ok for 10GbE, shouldn't it? It is understandable that there is little use of it for 10GbE as the equipment is way too expensive currently, but I don't see a benefit in saving 5% of the budget and limiting future easier upgrade options. It seems like extra switches and fiber would be much more expensive than going CAT5E->CAT6A. Ah, not sure which way to go in the end. 5E vs 6A is, funnily, the most contested aspect of home networking

Yeah, LACP. I've been in so many acronyms this past week researching and planning all this that it's a success I've got at least the letters right. It doesn't help that I'm writing most of it after midnight, either.

 

[schizrade]

CAT6 is neither here nor there, but CAT6A should be a-ok for 10GbE, shouldn't it? It is understandable that there is little use of it for 10GbE as the equipment is way too expensive currently, but I don't see a benefit in saving 5% of the budget and limiting future easier upgrade options. It seems like extra switches and fiber would be much more expensive than going CAT5E->CAT6A. Ah, not sure which way to go in the end. 5E vs 6A is, funnily, the most contested aspect of home networking

Yeah, LACP. I've been in so many acronyms this past week researching and planning all this that it's a success I've got at least the letters right. It doesn't help that I'm writing most of it after midnight, either.

Well it comes down to proper installation and termination of Cat6a. I have manufactured cat6a cables that will not do more than 1GbE at all. It is just not an in demand thing in the consumer space, and where copper is prevalent is in the server/datacenter world, it is in very short runs and the rest if optical.

These are what I am talking about:
http://www.sfpcables.com/sfp-active-dac

Again, never actually seen a 10gb cat6a installation in practice. For most LAN operations it is complete over kill, and relegated to between switch communications and aggregations etc. We run 10Gb fiber between our 10 floors to Cat3850 switches, then aggregate those to a Brocade VDX 6740T-1G in the main server room.

Good luck with your runs either way. Cat5e or 6a will do fine, I just don't know if counting on 10GbE over them is realistic.

 

[diizzy]

The Zyxel GS1920 series (switch) might be of interest, good UI and usually quite cheap.
In all honesty, I think it's really a waste getting two "servers" for firewalling, storage, Plex. You can easily combine this into one (just run vanilla FreeBSD and (if needed) jails. If you want firewalling separately just go with an OpenWRT compatible router and use CoDel as it is way overpowered for an ADSL connection and even fast cable connections in most cases. CAT6/CAT6a is like what everyone else says, it's just a waste and asking for trouble.
//Danne

 

[Dead Parrot]

The mini hub closet is for The Next Great Thing(tm). Have no clue what that might be. It wasn't very many years ago that home WiFi was unheard of. A few years before that only the most bleeding edge computer geeks did home networking.

Doesn't even need to be a dedicated hub closet. Just a centrally located space on each floor where you run a power plug and empty conduit. That way if TNGT needs a network connected gizmo on each floor, you will be ready.

 

[Meeho]

I'll give the cable type another thought.

As for the hub closet, I was thinking of having a wall cabinet/opening here and there along the conduits, especially near the bends, for easy access in case of recabling problems. I might add a power plug near that.

 

[Mackintire]

stagger the UNIFI APs on every floor unless the floor is huge.

Unifi's radiate outwards and downwards.

I usually place them in hallways 1/3 the way across the area.

The floor below the AP is half the width of the building away

two floors down the AP is directly below the top floor AP

Why a HTPC as a plex client....use Roku 3s with the plex channel.

CAT6 all the way.

Why build a NAS? Use a QNAP or thecus box. and why RAID 10 using six drives?

Of if you are hellbent on rolling your own....
for media: Windows+unraid I understand "good choice"
ZFS: again I understand "good choice"
RAID 5: understand " makes sense"
RAID 6: for media....um ahh ok its your cash, but I kinda understand


I see a crap load of read/writing transcoding going on for your plex server...and no local storage.

not sure what your performance expectations are.

 

[/usr/sbin]

I've been pointed to Ubiquiti switches and they seem really good. ES-48-500W has a bigger PSU for PoE and seems to have all the features and throughput performance I would need, but is much cheaper than HP 1920. Anyone have experience with these? Are they reliable?

I'm a big fan of Ubiquiti. That being said I'm not a big fan of their switches at the price point simply because of the warranty. HP has a legit lifetime warranty. From my research Ubiquiti's is only 1 year. If I'm dropping that kind of cash on an enterprise grade product a 1 year warranty is just not acceptable to me.

 

[artbird309]

I would also run two cables to the APs, with newer AC WAPs they can use both links to increase the bandwidth with multiple clients. You would also have a backup cable if one goes bad down the road without having to run a new cable.

I am not going to get into the CAT6/6A for data but if you have any plans to run HDMI over them CAT6/6A is recommended for a lot of the converters I have used. Some also use 2 cables so you might want to increase the cables or conduit if you don't want to use switches at the TV.

 

[Meeho]

stagger the UNIFI APs on every floor unless the floor is huge.

Unifi's radiate outwards and downwards.

I usually place them in hallways 1/3 the way across the area.

The floor below the AP is half the width of the building away

two floors down the AP is directly below the top floor AP

Something like this?
____________
___|_________
________|____
___|_________
________|____

Ubiquiti manager will take care of channel setup or do I set it manually? I want to use their zero-handoff option.

Why a HTPC as a plex client....use Roku 3s with the plex channel.

Plex for ease of use for family members, but for me to be able to use MPC-HC+madVR and gaming.

CAT6 all the way.

CAT6/6A or specifically CAT6?

Why build a NAS? Use a QNAP or thecus box.

Mainly because of ZFS and some powerful FreeNAS features. I would like to tinker with it and considering features/expansion options/performance building my own will be cheaper.

and why RAID 10 using six drives?
Of if you are hellbent on rolling your own....
for media: Windows+unraid I understand "good choice"
ZFS: again I understand "good choice"
RAID 5: understand " makes sense"
RAID 6: for media....um ahh ok its your cash, but I kinda understand

This was my thinking:
I can go with max 6x3TB drives to keep the cost reasonable and it should serve my capacity needs for some time. Since it will store all the family's precious media + a backup of a remote office NAS, I need either RAIDZ2(RAID6) or 10 for minimum 2 drives redundancy. Since there will potentially be a periodic significant load on the NAS from IP cameras, HTPCs, mobile devices and remote backup, I am worried if Z2 will be fast enough to handle it. Then, even if it is, with 6 drives it is 6TB vs 9TB for 10 vs Z2 - not a deal breaker capacity wise, but I am a bit worried about potential recovery problems during lengthy recovery from a drive failure with Z2, plus a big speed degradation during that time.

Using 4 drives for the important stuff for at least 2 drive redundancy and then 2 separate drives for movies/music doesn't seem like it would bring any benefits.

What would be your advice?

I see a crap load of read/writing transcoding going on for your plex server...and no local storage.

not sure what your performance expectations are.

Does it need local storage for transcoding? I thought it would just use the NAS to read the media.

Honestly, I don't know the exact performance I will need, as this is the first setup of this kind I will be running.

I'm a big fan of Ubiquiti. That being said I'm not a big fan of their switches at the price point simply because of the warranty. HP has a legit lifetime warranty. From my research Ubiquiti's is only 1 year. If I'm dropping that kind of cash on an enterprise grade product a 1 year warranty is just not acceptable to me.

Just 1 year? That is really low. On the other hand, 500W PoE + 48 ports for that price, and their equipment is reportedly good with reliability... HP is about 50% more expensive

 

[Meeho]

The Zyxel GS1920 series (switch) might be of interest, good UI and usually quite cheap.

Looks good. Has someone got any experience with these?

In all honesty, I think it's really a waste getting two "servers" for firewalling, storage, Plex. You can easily combine this into one (just run vanilla FreeBSD and (if needed) jails. If you want firewalling separately just go with an OpenWRT compatible router and use CoDel as it is way overpowered for an ADSL connection and even fast cable connections in most cases.

I would like FreeNAS for features, GUI and ZFS and it is highly recommended not to virtualize it. There will probably be 30/10 or higher Internet link in the near future (with ADSL used as backup WAN), plus the internal routing and firewall control will require a beefier hardware and features, so Pfsense seemed like a good choice.

I would also run two cables to the APs, with newer AC WAPs they can use both links to increase the bandwidth with multiple clients. You would also have a backup cable if one goes bad down the road without having to run a new cable.

Considering I don't expect much of a WiFi bandwidth requirements and that there will be conduits in place, is it still a good idea to pull two cables for APs? I don't want to go (even more) overkill

I am not going to get into the CAT6/6A for data but if you have any plans to run HDMI over them CAT6/6A is recommended for a lot of the converters I have used. Some also use 2 cables so you might want to increase the cables or conduit if you don't want to use switches at the TV.

Yes, HDMI over ethernet is something I could use one day. That was one of the reasons I was planning for CAT6A. Something like building a single powerful gaming PC and using it on any TV/monitor in the house. I was even thinking of ditching the HTPCs and using HDBaseT for all the TVs from the Plex server, but I don't think that is supported. Is there a way to make it work?

 

[/usr/sbin]

Just 1 year? That is really low. On the other hand, 500W PoE + 48 ports for that price, and their equipment is reportedly good with reliability... HP is about 50% more expensive

http://dl.ubnt.com/guides/UniFi_Switch/UniFi_Switch_US-48_QSG.pdf

Page 17 of the manual for the switches:

UBIQUITI NETWORKS, Inc (“UBIQUITI NETWORKS&#8221 warrants that the
product(s) furnished hereunder (the “Product(s)&#8221 shall be free from defects
in material and workmanship for a period of one (1) year from the date
of shipment by UBIQUITI NETWORKS under normal use and operation.
UBIQUITI NETWORKS’ sole and exclusive obligation and liability under
the foregoing warranty shall be for UBIQUITI NETWORKS, at its discretion,
to repair or replace any Product that fails to conform to the above
warranty during the above warranty period. The expense of removal and
reinstallation of any Product is not included in this warranty. The warranty
period of any repaired or replaced Product shall not extend beyond its
original term.​

Personally for the amount you are about to lay out for the switch I'd go with HP for the warranty. Yes it's more expensive but even with good reliability you still get some duds. For a $99 router like an edgerouter lite it's not much of an issue since the savings are so huge and it's a low dollar item. At least that's my opinion. Either way you go is up to you - but at least you are aware if you do go that route.

 

[Meeho]

What about Zyxel switches? They have limited lifetime warranty (until EoL announcement + 5 years). Any reliability/functional issues?

And what exactly is the difference between GS1900/1910/1920?

 

[diizzy]

@ Meeho

1. I have deployed a few of the previous model GS1910 (without POE) and I only have positive experience. Much snappier UI than HP 1910 and fanless. The GS1920 offers slightly better hardware but the serial port has been removed. You can compare the two models here:

ftp://ftp.zyxel.com/GS1910-24/datasheet/GS1910-24_5.pdf
ftp://ftp.zyxel.com/GS1920-24/datasheet/GS1920-24_5.pdf

2. I never said that you needed to virtualize it if you were to use vanilla FreeBSD instead, the only thing you'll miss out on is the web ui but administration using the CLI is very easy.

3. A recent MIPS box will handle that more than fine, I have no idea why you think performance is pretty much non-existent.

//Danne

 

[Meeho]

@ Meeho

1. I have deployed a few of the previous model GS1910 (without POE) and I only have positive experience. Much snappier UI than HP 1910 and fanless. The GS1920 offers slightly better hardware but the serial port has been removed. You can compare the two models here:

ftp://ftp.zyxel.com/GS1910-24/datasheet/GS1910-24_5.pdf
ftp://ftp.zyxel.com/GS1920-24/datasheet/GS1920-24_5.pdf

Hmm, can't seem to find meaningful differences, at least for my needs.

2. I never said that you needed to virtualize it if you were to use vanilla FreeBSD instead, the only thing you'll miss out on is the web ui but administration using the CLI is very easy.

But what about Win7 installs in that case?

3. A recent MIPS box will handle that more than fine, I have no idea why you think performance is pretty much non-existent.

Aren't VPN and QoS performance hogs? My Asus RT-N66U has trouble with QoS only and 60/30 Mbps connection. VPN would kill it.

 

[wizdum]

http://dl.ubnt.com/guides/UniFi_Switch/UniFi_Switch_US-48_QSG.pdf

Page 17 of the manual for the switches:

UBIQUITI NETWORKS, Inc (“UBIQUITI NETWORKS&#8221 warrants that the
product(s) furnished hereunder (the “Product(s)&#8221 shall be free from defects
in material and workmanship for a period of one (1) year from the date
of shipment by UBIQUITI NETWORKS under normal use and operation.
UBIQUITI NETWORKS’ sole and exclusive obligation and liability under
the foregoing warranty shall be for UBIQUITI NETWORKS, at its discretion,
to repair or replace any Product that fails to conform to the above
warranty during the above warranty period. The expense of removal and
reinstallation of any Product is not included in this warranty. The warranty
period of any repaired or replaced Product shall not extend beyond its
original term.​

Personally for the amount you are about to lay out for the switch I'd go with HP for the warranty. Yes it's more expensive but even with good reliability you still get some duds. For a $99 router like an edgerouter lite it's not much of an issue since the savings are so huge and it's a low dollar item. At least that's my opinion. Either way you go is up to you - but at least you are aware if you do go that route.

This is just an anecdote, but i've never had them deny an RMA, or heard of them denying an RMA, and i've done a lot of stupid things with Ubiquiti gear.
(the camera was fine by the way).

That being said, the EdgeSwitches are really expensive if you don't have a lot of POE devices. I've had no problems with my Mikrotik CRS, or my Zyxel GS1910's

 

[scottatwittenberg]

I've been pointed to Ubiquiti switches and they seem really good. ES-48-500W has a bigger PSU for PoE and seems to have all the features and throughput performance I would need, but is much cheaper than HP 1920. Anyone have experience with these? Are they reliable?

As for the NAS and VM server, I had this in mind:

NAS:
Intel Core i3-4130
Supermicro X10SLM-F M-ATX
2x8GB KINGSTON KVR16E11/8I 8GB 1600 ECC
6x WD Red 3TB 30EFRX in RAID10
~450W Seasonic/XFX PSU
Fractal Design Define R5

ESXi - Pfsense + Win7 Plex server + Win7 cameras and Ubiquity APs management:
Intel Core i7-4790K
Supermicro X10SLM-F M-ATX
2x8GB non-ECC RAM
128 GB SSD
~450W Seasonic/XFX PSU
Fractal Design Define R5


- Any suggestion for a case with at least 12 HDD bays and quiet 120/140mm fans? Might be good to plan for future NAS expansion options.

- How does Supermicro IPMI work? Will I be able to connect to it from anywhere and have a complete view of the system as if I was looking at a physically connected monitor? Is it like an advance VNC and I would be able to do all BIOS setup, ESXi VM management and guest OS usage via IPMI?

Any reason why you don't just buy an actual rackmount NAS? It almost sounds like you would be better off putting an actual rack in the basement, and putting everything it in, rather than having a bunch of stand-alone boxes.

 

[diizzy]

@ Meeho

1. The GS1920 is the successor of the GS1910, more buffer memory, few firmware differences although they've removed the serial connection on the GS1920. I also have vague memory that backplane throughput is slightly higher on the GS1920. They're very similar so if the GS1910 I doubt you'll find much of a difference in the end.

2. As for now you need to go Virtualbox if you want to run Windows 7, is it the viewing software you're concerned about? Zoneminder might fix that? http://www.zoneminder.com/

3. OpenVPN is bad in terms of performance, a new router would probably do around 30-40ish and QoS should be around 100ish or so. If you have DSL this is more than enough even if you get VDSL2 full speed. You could of course just run on the server and in that case you'd only have pf.conf which have sane syntax.

4. As for the servers themselves....

I'd rather go for the Toshiba DT01ACA300 drives instead, a bit cheaper and they play nice with HBAs/SATA/SAS-controllers. You can have a look at the storage forum, there are a lot of ppl using those drives with great success.

I'd probably go for 550-600W PSU (Superflower made PSUs are also very good) if you plan to do 12+ HDDs in the end. Rosewill Capstone 550W looks like a good deal and is made by Superflower.

As for the cases, just go with the XL case by Fractal Design?

For the ESXi box (if you still wanna go that route), just buy a server by HP/Lenovo/Fujitsu It'll be worth it in the end...
//Danne

 

[Meeho]

This is just an anecdote, but i've never had them deny an RMA, or heard of them denying an RMA, and i've done a lot of stupid things with Ubiquiti gear.
(the camera was fine by the way).

No denying within the warranty period or beyond?

I get Bad access token for the link.

That being said, the EdgeSwitches are really expensive if you don't have a lot of POE devices. I've had no problems with my Mikrotik CRS, or my Zyxel GS1910's

Compared to HP they are cheap , but Zyxel does look like a great value. EdgeMAX is Layer3, though.
It will probably be around 10 PoE devices in the beginning.

Any reason why you don't just buy an actual rackmount NAS? It almost sounds like you would be better off putting an actual rack in the basement, and putting everything it in, rather than having a bunch of stand-alone boxes.

Just that I need another same NAS box that will go in an office that would have to be a standard PC box and my familiarity with working with those. And the house one will maybe go in a flat before the house is built, so would also need to be a quiet PC case.

@ Meeho

1. The GS1920 is the successor of the GS1910, more buffer memory, few firmware differences although they've removed the serial connection on the GS1920. I also have vague memory that backplane throughput is slightly higher on the GS1920. They're very similar so if the GS1910 I doubt you'll find much of a difference in the end.

It looks like 1920 has smaller buffers and a slightly lower switching capacity if I'm reading the PDFs correctly. Not that the difference should matter for my use.

2. As for now you need to go Virtualbox if you want to run Windows 7, is it the viewing software you're concerned about? Zoneminder might fix that? http://www.zoneminder.com/

More for a robust HTPC solution with transcoding abilities for mobile and Internet devices.

3. OpenVPN is bad in terms of performance, a new router would probably do around 30-40ish and QoS should be around 100ish or so. If you have DSL this is more than enough even if you get VDSL2 full speed. You could of course just run on the server and in that case you'd only have pf.conf which have sane syntax.

I was looking at separate devices, but if I end up with ESXi I'll probably go with Pfsense.

4. As for the servers themselves....

I'd rather go for the Toshiba DT01ACA300 drives instead, a bit cheaper and they play nice with HBAs/SATA/SAS-controllers. You can have a look at the storage forum, there are a lot of ppl using those drives with great success.

Actually, my first choice was DT01ACA300, but I went for the Reds in the end because of easier availability and potential noise from 7.2k drives (for the office box and if I use it in the flat before the house basement). Toshibas are hardly mentioned in reliability comparisons, will they be around for much longer?
Do you think I should go with them over the Reds?

I'd probably go for 550-600W PSU (Superflower made PSUs are also very good) if you plan to do 12+ HDDs in the end. Rosewill Capstone 550W looks like a good deal and is made by Superflower.

As for the cases, just go with the XL case by Fractal Design?

The price difference is minimal, but isn't 550 W overkill for a NAS box?

Hmm, you are right, with 5,25" to 3,5" converters the XL would be a good choice.

For the ESXi box (if you still wanna go that route), just buy a server by HP/Lenovo/Fujitsu It'll be worth it in the end...
//Danne

Why do you think that? I'm not sure that I would need the support benefits since it is not a production environment and the price is much higher.



Thank you all again, I really appreciate your advice on all this!

 

[Meeho]

I forgot about one thing. Do you think I would need any kind of heating/cooling for the room? I was thinking that it being in the basement it shouldn't get too hot in the summer and the equipment itself should keep it warm enough during winter. Outside temp is -5 to 35 C (23-95 F).

 

[diizzy]

1. True, depends on you're looking at 24p (better) vs 48p (smaller).
2. In all honestly do ppl even use mobile devices for viewer, pretty much anything decent plays native formats these days and I would in general consider BSD/Linux to be more stable than Windows transcoding etc.
3. Okay, I would probably try to not involve ESXi or virtualization altogether if possible. Doing overly complex solutions tends to have more "fun" issues in my experience in general. Not saying that it's a bad idea going ESXi but that's just my humble opinion.
4. Yes, you'll be fine...
5. Yes and no, overall it's overkill but there is going to be a power surge when you turn it on and since there's minimal difference in price I don't see why you wouldn't go that route.
6. Simply because it's cheaper and you know it works
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rver/Workstation Systems-_-Lenovo-_-59106530I doubt you can build something cheaper (ESXi box)...
//Danne

 

[wizdum]

No denying within the warranty period or beyond?

I get Bad access token for the link.


Thank you all again, I really appreciate your advice on all this!

Beyond. I RMA'd an ER-Lite that died in a thunderstorm (after 1.5 years), an AirCam that probably died because I direct-buried regular riser rated UTP (after 3 years, and I bought it used on eBay), and a PowerStation 5 that got buried in a snow drift and filled up with water (3 years and out of manufacture).

Now that I think about it, i've only ever had to RMA equipment that I installed at my own house. That probably says something about how I treat my own gear relative to my customer's.

They take every RMA on a case by case basis. If you at least tried to follow the recommended installation procedures, you should be approved. That being said, legally, they are only on the hook for the 1 year. They also don't do priority overnight for RMAs, so most people just say to buy a spare or two, since everything is so low cost.

Link Fixed

 

[Nate7311]

To chime in with diizzy, I deploy the crap out of the Zyxel 1910-48HP's for VOIP/Wifi systems. Pretty solid and quick support if it's needed.

 

[diizzy]

@ Nate7311
Do you run the new 2.X firmware or the old versions?
//Danne

 

[Meeho]

2. In all honestly do ppl even use mobile devices for viewer, pretty much anything decent plays native formats these days and I would in general consider BSD/Linux to be more stable than Windows transcoding etc.

I'm not aware of BSD based solutions and Linux would still require virtualization if I would combine both servers into one. To keep things I'll need to learn manageable, I think it would be better for me to stick with FreeNAS GUI and Windows.

3. Okay, I would probably try to not involve ESXi or virtualization altogether if possible. Doing overly complex solutions tends to have more "fun" issues in my experience in general. Not saying that it's a bad idea going ESXi but that's just my humble opinion.

I could do that if I dedicate Pfsense's duties to a separate device, but I'm kind of looking forward to playing with virtualization on a more serious level

4. Yes, you'll be fine...

OK, I'll go back to Toshiba drives.

5. Yes and no, overall it's overkill but there is going to be a power surge when you turn it on and since there's minimal difference in price I don't see why you wouldn't go that route.

I was thinking of the PSU's efficiency curve being lower with (too) low utilization.

6. Simply because it's cheaper and you know it works
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rver/Workstation Systems-_-Lenovo-_-59106530I doubt you can build something cheaper (ESXi box)...
//Danne

I'll give a closer look to local prices and offers with a beefier CPU and more NICs. What brands would be good choices besides IBM/Lenovo? HP, Fujitsu...?

Beyond. I RMA'd an ER-Lite that died in a thunderstorm (after 1.5 years), an AirCam that probably died because I direct-buried regular riser rated UTP (after 3 years, and I bought it used on eBay), and a PowerStation 5 that got buried in a snow drift and filled up with water (3 years and out of manufacture).

Now that I think about it, i've only ever had to RMA equipment that I installed at my own house. That probably says something about how I treat my own gear relative to my customer's.

They take every RMA on a case by case basis. If you at least tried to follow the recommended installation procedures, you should be approved. That being said, legally, they are only on the hook for the 1 year. They also don't do priority overnight for RMAs, so most people just say to buy a spare or two, since everything is so low cost.

Link Fixed

Interesting.

Zyxel is only 5 years here, no limited lifetime, but still a great price. Ubiquiti is more available, though.

That camera, wow

To chime in with diizzy, I deploy the crap out of the Zyxel 1910-48HP's for VOIP/Wifi systems. Pretty solid and quick support if it's needed.

That is good to hear. Your thoughts on 1910-48HP vs 1920-48HP? Any reason to choose one over the other if both are available?

"Any suggestion for a case with at least 12 HDD bays and quiet 120/140mm fans? Might be good to plan for future NAS expansion options."

Techy_parts is selling brand new Supermicro 3.5" 12 bay JBOD boxes on ebay - $399 + 30 ship (in US).
This, in my opinion, is a very good deal considering that they're including the CSE-JBOD-2 power module, a dual 8088 port bracket with cables from the E16 (full SAS 2 support) back plane out the rear, redundant 1200 watt PS, other cables, rack mounts, trays, screws, etc. It's basically a SM JBOD chassis ready to go. The only possible mod might be to change out the 3 mid mount fans to make it run more quiet. This chassis also accepts up to an EATX main board.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371258078559?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Looks great but shipping is insane to Europe

 

[diizzy]

* Plex is even in FreeBSD ports etc, it works fine directly. I have no idea what you mean by "learn manageable". Equivalent to "clickable UI"?

* Okay have fun, one would think to know it really works would be more useful in the long run, In host, creating your own ruleset and how altq works.

* Ok

* The efficiency curve wont make much of a difference at all on these low end devices.

* If you're in Europe, Fujitsu TX1310 (M1) offers excellent value. They're dirt cheap in .se and .uk at least.

* Fantec (de) have very nice hot-swap bays.
//Danne

 

[Meeho]

* Plex is even in FreeBSD ports etc, it works fine directly. I have no idea what you mean by "learn manageable". Equivalent to "clickable UI"?

* Okay have fun, one would think to know it really works would be more useful in the long run, In host, creating your own ruleset and how altq works.

Not just UI, I have nothing against CLI. But between managing a switch with multiple VLANs and link aggregations, firewalling, routing and VPN-ing those networks, extensive NAS setup on multiple locations, HTPC server-client infrastructure, video surveillance control...I don't feel like learning FreeBSD, jailing, dealing with semi-supported FreeBSD ports etc. just to combine the boxes. I have saved guides for FreeNAS, Pfsense and ESXi and they are popular solutions with abundance of guides and help.

I will still do much of the customization, rulesets, learning how everything works and interacts and similar, but with an easier starting position.

* If you're in Europe, Fujitsu TX1310 (M1) offers excellent value. They're dirt cheap in .se and .uk at least.

* Fantec (de) have very nice hot-swap bays.

I'll give those a look, thx.

 

[ThreeDee]

a minor note .. FreeNAS has a Plex plugin that works pretty good

 

[diizzy]

Don't forget that is apparently "semi-supported" too....
//Danne