New Images Show "Charm Bar" in Windows 8 Build 8158

If i were MS, i would put the metroUI on the desktop, not as a separate entity.
 
While the new Task/Program Manager in W8 is great and all, the Metro UI needs to be killed with fire (and finished off with the Picard Maneuver). Still iffy on some of the other new features...
 
um... that bar isn't new. That is the in developer preview. If I swipe my finger from the right it comes out (yes i'm using a touch screen).

The chime bar is that black bar on the right side of the screen with search, share, start, devices and settings right?

Those pics aren't showing much that is new. IE 10's auto update feature is new. Apps being listed in search is not that is there right now and Apps is what it refers to all progras as. that black bar is not new, it being clear in the last pick seems new, unless i just haven't found that feature.

For those still bitching, go download the developers preview. I am using it all the time and seriously I don't see a problem with the changes. For the programs I use the most I have them on my desktop or task bar just like in windows 7. if they aren't there i press start, start to type the name, and launch it real quick just like I would in any post XP machine. i seen the start screen maybe 4 seconds a day when using my computer for 7 hours a day. If you people are looking at that screen for hours a day then you need help. As for the comment in the article about the control panel icon the desktop, I guess they never actually used 8 yet. Accessing Control Panel from the start screen and getting the metro view doesn't give you access to everything, just some of the more mainstream feature that the average person would need, the very last item in the menu is to launch the desktop view for more settings.

I still say all of you that bitch about the changes are just going to bitch no matter what Microsoft was to do.
 
never mind, I overlooked the store icon there in the searching of apps. that is what they were referring to as being new.
 
Exavior said:
I still say all of you that bitch about the changes are just going to bitch no matter what Microsoft was to do.
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Pretty much.

Steven Sinofsky is no stranger to UI controversy, he was the product manager for Office 2007 and the Ribbon UI and of course led the effort for Windows 7, he has a hell of a track record. I'm absolutely sure that the controversy over the Metro UI has to be reminiscent of the debate over the Ribbon UI to him and it's pretty obvious that he knew more than the Ribbon haters.

Windows has to move forward, it has to be a first class touch capable OS, there really is no choice if Windows is to remain relevant in the mainstream tech market.
 
Monkey34 said:
LOL:D



Yep. Isn't going to happen very soon. How many people switched to even using a Touchsmart?
Personally, I don't like touchscreens. I use them on some equipment at work, and I like the kb/mouse better.

When we have an environment where nobody has dirty hands, touchscreens have better response and accuracy, computer voice control that works good - to remove some need for tactile input.........


Sorry. Doesn't exist yet. Keep the tablet away from the desktop please.
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I do not think everyone moved to touch screens but if you just look at what is being sold in Best buy you will see over the years the touch screen all in ones have grown from a single unit up to about 10, meanwhile desktops have shrunk from the majority of the store to an amount so small that the touch screen all in ones my surpass them. And of course laptops make up the majority of the store now. But now laptop space is being moved out of the way for expanding tablets. It seems silly but it seems like finally in the most ass backwards way we are about to move to something like the good old think pad tablets. But of course with removable keyboards. But no doubt touch interfaces are growing in popularity. If you add tablets, all in one touch screens and some laptops with touch screens it may be as much as 15% of the store. You must have a solution for that market.
 
Zinn said:
OH MY GOD. Something different! WTF Microsoft :mad: They had it right with Windows 3.1 but was that good enough?! NO. They had to keep adding on layer after layer of useless crap making PC's completely unusable. They need to go back to square one and bring back my Program Manager.
Click to expand...

Windows 8 has more in common with Windows 3.1, in terms of UI.
 
Exavior said:
I still say all of you that bitch about the changes are just going to bitch no matter what Microsoft was to do.
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Bullshit.

Quit it with your assumptions. I (and many other of the "complainers") used the developer build months ago. I hate the interface changes. The first thing I noticed was the start screen button on the taskbar. It looks like Aero Corrupted or Missing Visual Style Assets Edition.

While I'm sure there are many out there who make it a daily ritual to bitch at MS for no good reason - not everyone is that way. Some have legitimate complaints. Mine is that they can't just stick to a specific interface style. They've got Aero, Metro and MS Office randomly scattered throughout the OS. I don't have a problem with the actual features of the OS, really - just the fact that they can't decide which damned look they want to go with. If they unified it all, I'd be much happier.
 
DG25 said:
If i were MS, i would put the metroUI on the desktop, not as a separate entity.
Click to expand...

Then the complaint would be that it's a rehash of Active Desktop from windows 95/98.

I don't know what people expect. Everything is going to be mature at this point that it's going to look like or act like something that was used before.
 
stop!theradio said:
Bullshit.

Quit it with your assumptions. I (and many other of the "complainers") used the developer build months ago. I hate the interface changes. The first thing I noticed was the start screen button on the taskbar. It looks like Aero Corrupted or Missing Visual Style Assets Edition.

While I'm sure there are many out there who make it a daily ritual to bitch at MS for no good reason - not everyone is that way. Some have legitimate complaints. Mine is that they can't just stick to a specific interface style. They've got Aero, Metro and MS Office randomly scattered throughout the OS. I don't have a problem with the actual features of the OS, really - just the fact that they can't decide which damned look they want to go with. If they unified it all, I'd be much happier.
Click to expand...

I do agree that the button looks a tad odd. Not fully liking the look and not liking that they changed the look are two different things. I was referring to the people that are bitching that Microsoft changed the overall look of windows, just like they bitched / do bitch about Office 2007 and 2010. The people that refuse to try it because Microsoft changed the way things have been for the last 15+ years. Maybe ALL was a little much, but a majority of the people bitching about them changing it would be the same ones bitching if they left it alone. People bitch that Vista isn't any different than XP and that 7 isn't any different that Vista so they don't know why they had to pay money to upgrade as all they did was change 1 or 2 visual things and that is it. So they will bitch if Microsoft doesn't change the OS much, and then on the flip side they bitch that they OS does get changed.
 
What I don't like about it except the already mentioned UI stuff are the angular shapes of aero windows, they very much killed it now as well. The original aero was really nice, compared to new one.
 
It'll be interesting to see what MS settle on as we get closer to the final version. Personally, I'm not a touchscreen fan for anything larger than a tablet. And since I'm constantly typing at my job, keyboard+mouse will rule forever.

For the business market, Metro will bring zero value. Heck, my previous employer is only now in the process of migrating from XP/Office 2k3 to Win7/Office 2010, simply because XP worked. I can see Metro working fine in a tablet or casual-use environment, but not for productivity apps.

I'm also interested in finding out whether MS learn from Canonical about poorly-implemented docks a la Unity. Also interested in whether Canonical learn from that fiasco...
 
heatlesssun said:
Simply not true. The Start Screen is a wonderful notification system and can make a great dashboard and it's drop dead easy to develop this stuff.
Click to expand...
Sure, it gives you notifications. I'm having trouble seeing how that is an improvement. If it's a notification of an email, you'll have to pull up the email client anyway. If you're in the middle of doing something else (writing an email, coding, any sort of MS-Office-related work), you won't be looking at Metro in the first place. I guess I'm just not seeing the use cases here...
 
Mohonri said:
Sure, it gives you notifications. I'm having trouble seeing how that is an improvement. If it's a notification of an email, you'll have to pull up the email client anyway. If you're in the middle of doing something else (writing an email, coding, any sort of MS-Office-related work), you won't be looking at Metro in the first place. I guess I'm just not seeing the use cases here...
Click to expand...

Because you can launch the Start Screen and see a lot of information without ever needing to launch anything else. I've been in business software development for almost 20 years, this is something that has a LOT of value in the business world. What's great about it from a development standpoint is that so easy to do and you don't have to worry about a large complex framework or performance on the client, it was designed to scale extremely well. Also the search system can be used to search for anything across multiple sources and applications from a single place.

I'm not saying that all of this actually materialize but we simply don't have Metro apps right now. Microsoft is throwing the kitchen sink into Windows 8 and that's part of the problem, people are only looking at the UI and not really what's underneath. There's an enormous about of functionality in Windows 8, if it's utilized there's some very cool stuff that can be with it that can have a lot of impact in the business world.
 
heatlesssun said:
Because you can launch the Start Screen and see a lot of information without ever needing to launch anything else. I've been in business software development for almost 20 years, this is something that has a LOT of value in the business world. What's great about it from a development standpoint is that so easy to do and you don't have to worry about a large complex framework or performance on the client, it was designed to scale extremely well. Also the search system can be used to search for anything across multiple sources and applications from a single place.

I'm not saying that all of this actually materialize but we simply don't have Metro apps right now. Microsoft is throwing the kitchen sink into Windows 8 and that's part of the problem, people are only looking at the UI and not really what's underneath. There's an enormous about of functionality in Windows 8, if it's utilized there's some very cool stuff that can be with it that can have a lot of impact in the business world.
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Also, to add to your post regarding how Windows 8 will be good from a developer's standpoint, here's something else to know if others haven't read about it yet.

Microsoft is going to introduce a new compiler/API in Windows 8 called Windows Runtime or WinRT. From my understanding and what I've read, the plan is to introduce applications ("apps") and programs on the computer that will launch in mere seconds instead of minutes. This will follow a similar approach that smartphones (and tablets) have been doing for the past few years on iOS, Android, and Windows Phone 7 (WP7). By seconds, I would assume less than 10 seconds unless you have an SSD in your computer.

Think of how long Photoshop CS5 launches on a traditional Windows 7 computer with a normal magnetic hard drive. It's about 20 to 30 seconds with a 7200 RPM SATA-2 hard drive on my computer. Microsoft's intention, and again how I understand it, is that when you launch a program like Photoshop reprogrammed entirely with WinRT, the program will launch as fast as an app on smartphone or tablet. And, it will install as fast as it does on a smartphone-- within seconds. Compare that to the minutes for a full install of CS5 Master Suite to install on a computer.

WinRT will also no longer be encumbered by legacy code and is completely new from the ground up. Any application programmed with WinAPI (aka Win32) will still invoke the WinAPI/Win32 within Windows 8, so programs will still be compatible on the new OS. However, Microsoft seems to be pushing this new "programming paradigm" starting with Windows 8 and on future programs. I would assume that the new MS Office suite (Office 15) will be both WinRT and Win32, but I would not be surprised they drop Win32 in future Microsoft programs. That's going to be a big kicker in the ass to programmers and companies that will still be using a non-WinRT OS like Windows 7 or earlier. (And, heavens forbid companies still using Windows XP/2000/NT when that change to WinRT happens.)

It's time to forward I guess, whether we like to or not. This is going to be a very big change compared to legacy applications.

Windows 8 is bringing new things to the desktop OS and is building upon Windows 7, and improve some parts of it. However, the biggest problem with change is alienating legacy users who are very stubborn that ruins their routine and the way things have been done in the past. The transition from a command line (CLI) to GUI in Windows 2 and Windows 3.11 was a big change but I'm sure it was welcomed. It made the computer more easier to handle. Then, the change from Win 3 to Win 95/98 was very big because of the major UI changes. With each change comes something new but I understand the arguments that Microsoft does not stick to one UI design.

But, let me ask the people criticizing Windows 8 this:
Do you want Microsoft to stagnate in the market or do you want them to move forward?

Do you also believe that without change, there cannot be innovation?​
Think about computer hardware. Intel keeps changing CPU sockets like dirty underwear. However, everytime Intel changes a socket, it adds something new to the processor or improvements to its design and performance. From 775 to 1366/1156 to 1155/2011 and soon 1150 (Haswell) and god knows what else after that. CPU TDP has dropped, power efficiency increased, IPC improved, on-die integrated graphics (though I digress that's barely improved), and better overclocking and memory throughput.

What I'm saying is this: Without change, we cannot move forward. And, if we don't move forward, things will stagnate such as technology.

Hey, I'm not too fond either of how Microsoft is introducing this new UI on its users. I've used the Windows 8 Dev Preview but isn't compatible with some games I play that use Gameguard and the like. I wasn't too fond of the fact that it takes 5 steps to shutdown the computer as well. However, I'm going to give Microsoft the benefit of a doubt here. I wasn't happy with Vista given the 4 whole months I've had it before I ditched it for Win 7 Beta (Build 7032). And, I've been criticizing the way Microsoft has been doing things in Windows since the Win95 days. For example, one welcome change I like in Windows 8 is this: they're finally implementing a method I've seen Linux do for years-- put unused programs in a suspended or sleep state. And, to me, Windows 8 feels faster over 7. Once WinRT programs are introduced and Microsoft improves the UI better (like that damn Shutdown procedure), I'm sure Windows 8 will get better over time.

Do I miss DOS 6.22 and QBasic and running everything from floppy disks? Does anyone? Do we want to go back there or should we move forward? The nostalgic part of my 31-year old self misses it, but compared to how much faster it is to do things now compared to then, the other part of me doesn't miss it so much.

Look at OSX. Apple really did a big number on those who still used PowerPC. But, whether it is Apple Cultism or dedication to all things Apple, at least the change from PPC to x86 was more welcomed. My friend who is a diehard Apple fan and hates Microsoft with a passion, didn't mind the change too much. It did hurt his wallet a bit since he had to buy/upgrade programs to be compatible in the new x86 OSX. It feels faster to him and he's welcomed most of the changes that Apple has introduced into OSX over the years. (Though, he doesn't like a few of them.)

If WinRT and Windows 8, and the MetroUI is meant to bring great changes to computing, I can see this as the way forward, not backwards. I can see programs that will launch in seconds from the MetroUI/Start screen without waiting for them to load even on traditional magnetic hard drives. I can see that Microsoft wants this to be the standard for the OS moving forward. With them dropping legacy code from WinRT and unifying other programming languages under it, this change is going to come soon.

With that, I'm giving Microsoft a pass on this one if and only if they do the following before final release/launch:
  1. Improve MetroUI usability.
  2. Allow users to switch between traditional Start menu and the new Start screen.
  3. Don't complicate what's been done for years. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid).
  4. Work with customers in both the consumer and enterprise market to not alienate them with these changes.
 
I do not get how WinRT will achieve all this. First of all ya smart phones can launch things fast but the things they run are NOTHING even remotely close to the size and complexity of what is being run on a desktop. Smartphones are also all using flash based memory which mean they can basically run it like an SSD. All my programs launch in mere seconds or almost instantly on my PC because I run an SSD. I cannot see how magic can happen on the desktop.

I still feel that windows 8 is a slaptogether of a touch interface based on wp7 and windows 7. It feels like it, it behaves like it but people say differently. And most importantly the average consumer is going to be confused as shit by this system.
 
The average consumer will adapt to the changes. They have many times before and will again.
 
octoberasian said:
Do you also believe that without change, there cannot be innovation?
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Thats not really whats happening. People do want new stuff, but thats definately not what is being provided. Just some junky GUI that noone seems to want and a load of old features that might as well be patched into 7. There really is very little progress or innovation. It's not the same as wanting to use DOS for everything as wanting a new OS to have, you know, new features. What I am looking for is for windows 8 to bring something shiny and new, but this isn't happening, it's the same old stuff. It needs some kind of good innovation not any kind of innovation.

Adobe photoshop cs5 on a 7200rpm hitachi = 10 seconds (the first time). The second time...less than 3 (probably because of prefetch).
 
DeathPrincess said:
Thats not really whats happening. People do want new stuff, but thats definately not what is being provided. Just some junky GUI that noone seems to want and a load of old features that might as well be patched into 7. There really is very little progress or innovation. It's not the same as wanting to use DOS for everything as wanting a new OS to have, you know, new features. What I am looking for is for windows 8 to bring something shiny and new, but this isn't happening, it's the same old stuff. It needs some kind of good innovation not any kind of innovation.

Adobe photoshop cs5 on a 7200rpm hitachi = 10 seconds (the first time). The second time...less than 3 (probably because of prefetch).
Click to expand...
What, exactly, are you looking for? This isn't just a GUI overlay - the new development model is HUGE, and the functionality gains are huge too - integrated system and in-app search, the store, automatic process management/not having to close apps, IE10, you name it.
 
I can see the potential of the new GUI, and a part of me hopes that the working environment on the PC can take a step forward into a new area that's easier to use and more functional than the desktop environment, however, I'm unsure of how long this will take to be realized (and how long Metro will be around). Disregarding the consumer, since I never work with them these days and hope to never again, by the time all the programs I use for remote managing sites get updated to be manageable through the MetroUI and I can do it all seamlessly without needing to switch between two different UIs, Windows 9 will probably be released. Most clients I work with use maybe 2 or 3 programs during their daily business tasks. POS system, Office, maybe Photoshop, 3rd party applications for postal tracking etc, and then their My Documents folder for personal files. How long will it take for POS system designers to update their products for a Windows later than XP, let alone a completely different development platform, and then get all the programs employees use to all work on Metro so there's no UI switching required? Or get employees trained to use a different environment from the one they've been using for almost 2 decades?

The biggest kink for me personally at this point is I like to stick to one UI, for simplicity, functionality, aesthetics, and to take out the need for having to work with multiple platforms at the same time. If I'm still required to do 25% of my tasks through Desktop and the other 75% can be done through Metro, I'd just go Desktop 100%. And by the time everything can be done 100% through Metro, will 100% of it be compatible with the next variant of Metro that gets released?

Stick with Aero. Or with Metro. Or with Ribbon. But not ALL of them.
Click to expand...

I have similar thoughts. Unity is key here. If they can get 99% of programs to work on Metro, look like Metro, and use the Metro design, then I'm all in. Otherwise I feel like I'm being bounced around all over the place. :p
 
I think they will include some of the old stuff there, at least I hope. Probably the beta and developer preview are pre-relesed where there is focus on only new features while the old will be added after the new ones are already completed.
 
I really don't understand this zero sum mentality. Why does everything have to be desktop oriented OR tablet oriented? Why not do both equally well?

I have had a Samsung Series 7 Slate for a little over a month now, dual booting Windows 7 & 8 on it. What's so awesome about this device is that it has no limits. If I want to play a game of Angry Birds via touch I can do that. If I want to read a book, watch a video or surf the web while say on a bus or train via touch I can do that. When I get to work and can plug it into the dock, have a mouse and keyboard and write code, create content with Office just like on a desktop with an external monitor. I can take the machine out of the dock, take it to a design meeting and using the digital pen start taking notes just like I would with pen and paper, only this pen and paper has a WiFi connection.

Today I can do all of these thing just with Windows 7. With Widows 8 NONE of this functionality or capability is lost or changes in any significant way. But with Metro apps I will have more options to do things easier with touch, say work on a spreadsheet in Office that's 100% compatible with the same Office I use with a keyboard and mouse. Windows 8 can work the way I need it to based on how I need it to.

On an x86 tablet with the right hardware, one machine can do everything any typical computing device does today. As Sinofsky says, no compromise.
 
I will honest. I Tried WDP, and at first I didnt like it. But then I decided to give it a good go. I set up news feeds through the inbuilt RSS feed reader, Facebook integration, and all the other bits and pieces that it has. I actually liked it. But it is completely incompatible with a wide range of games. So I canned it. But I am looking forward to it. It suits me better than W7 does, tbh, because I only boot into Windows to play the odd game, and having everything available on one screen is superduper. However, there is going to be a big backlash.
 
Why does everything have to be desktop oriented OR tablet oriented? Why not do both equally well?
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I think doing both equally well is the ultimate end goal, and what we should be aspiring to achieve. It's how they achieve it that's important to me.

If it's achieved just through the ability to switch between UI designs to get different tasks done, then that's a little annoying (imo). If they can design the Metro UI so that it's capable of handling all tasks at peak efficiency, and also redesign the tasks to match the UI, then we're talking :)

I.e. Explorer. Right now when I use Explorer in Windows 8, I feel like I'm using an old Desktop application mated with the Ribbon style UI. Two extra UI elements required for such a simple program. If they could make it into a 100% unified Metro app, that would be sweet.

Thinking outside the box, and thinking outside the old "windows" that we're used to, converting them to dynamic Metro elements.
 
If you dont like windows 8, you likely don't use a tablet or mobile touch screen device.

Simple as that, Windows 8 isn't meant for everyone and MS wont "kill the desktop PC" why would you think that... are companies around the world going to buy tablets for all their employee's now and touch screens which are far less efficient for daily computer usage that using a mouse and keyboard are.

I am more curious what the "Professional / Server" versions will bring to the table.
 
RealityCrunch said:
If it's achieved just through the ability to switch between UI designs to get different tasks done, then that's a little annoying (imo). If they can design the Metro UI so that it's capable of handling all tasks at peak efficiency, and also redesign the tasks to match the UI, then we're talking :)
Click to expand...

But in a way that's the beauty of Windows 8, you can have programs with a touch or a KBM UI. As long as the two UI work well together, and even in the Developer Preview they actually do work together far better than many are saying here.

RealityCrunch said:
I.e. Explorer. Right now when I use Explorer in Windows 8, I feel like I'm using an old Desktop application mated with the Ribbon style UI. Two extra UI elements required for such a simple program. If they could make it into a 100% unified Metro app, that would be sweet.
Click to expand...

You know, what you are describing here has actually worked out pretty well for Office. People love to say that Microsoft doesn't listen. Well they put the Ribbon UI in Office, one of their most important products, and Office sells better than ever now. I just don't get it. People keep blasting the Ribbon UI and the product that lunched the damn thing is having record success. Who's the one not listening?
 
But in a way that's the beauty of Windows 8, you can have programs with a touch or a KBM UI.
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Can't Metro be both? If it can, then can't applications that currently use KBM be redesigned to suit Metro?

You know, what you are describing here has actually worked out pretty well for Office. People love to say that Microsoft doesn't listen. Well they put the Ribbon UI in Office, one of their most important products, and Office sells better than ever now. I just don't get it. People keep blasting the Ribbon UI and the product that lunched the damn thing is having record success. Who's the one not listening?
Click to expand...

It has, but now we're moving onto a 3rd UI iteration. Why keep the old, when it could be upgraded to the new? I don't mind Desktop, I don't mind Ribbon, and I don't mind Metro. Having to use all 3 when we could be using 1? A little odd ;)

I'd just like to see full unification. Otherwise the Windows environment ends up, in my own personal opinion, messy.
 
MrGuvernment said:
If you dont like windows 8, you likely don't use a tablet or mobile touch screen device.
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I completely agree, this definitely has a lot to do with it and it's one reason why I'm torn about the UI as I've been using Windows Tablet PCs for going on a decade now. Without a doubt I know I'm biased. But also use Windows desktop even more and do a lot of Office content creation, web browsing and coding on the desktop and Windows 8 simply isn't significantly different functionally from Windows 7 for my typical workflow. Some things obviously look significantly different, some things are in different places. But ALL of the elements are there.

That's not to say everything is the way I'd like it or couldn't use some work. My biggest concern about the Start Screen is it's flat nature. I think it needs a folder mechanism to keep the tiles from growing out of control. There's a grouping mechanism but that's still not right.

But this still a work in progress and the concept of folders I believe is something that Microsoft has been working on in the Windows Phone UI. We shall see.
 
RealityCrunch said:
Can't Metro be both? If it can, then can't applications that currently use KBM be redesigned to suit Metro?
Click to expand...

Yes, it can and is. But the Metro UI is full screen, it's not really geared for overlapping, sizeable and multiple windows because that's a UI metaphor that doesn't work optimally with touch. Metro is about full screen, motion and gestures that can work both touch and KBM. Both have their place.

RealityCrunch said:
I'd just like to see full unification. Otherwise the Windows environment ends up, in my own personal opinion, messy.
Click to expand...

I can see where you're coming from but unfortunately that's the price I think that has to be paid for the 100% legacy support. As it stands now if you run a lot of different Windows programs you see a lot of different UIs already. Normal windowed programs, fixed size window programs, programs with their own window controls that look little like a standard window, etc. Windows is already a hodgepodge of different UIs due to the zillions of programs that run on it. Instead of trying to develop some type pure UI, I think it makes for Microsoft to just do incremental improvements to the current desktop, attempting to keep it 100% legacy compatible and then providing a blank slate with Metro. And as time progresses more and more Metro apps will come online replacing older apps where it makes sense anyway.

I would imagine that Windows 8 will ship with a HUGE library of Metro apps available. Windows Phone had around 2,000 apps at launch. Windows 8 which will sell as many units in days as Windows Phone has ever when it launches I'm reckoning will have at least 10,000 Metro apps at launch and that the number will grow virtually exponentially. Even if Windows 8 is a flop it will still probably be the fastest growing market in terms of available machines out there on an app market. There's going to be a lot of opportunity for developers to sell metric tons of Metro apps because Metro apps will work on every Windows 8 device be it a desktop, laptop or tablet, x86 or ARM. I think this is the thing that most people are not comprehending yet. I guarantee, there will be no shortage of Metro apps and the volume will explode. Window Phone got 40,000 apps in one year. Wisdoms 8 will blow well past 100,000 in the same time frame and while tons will no doubt be junk many thousands won't.
 
Instead of trying to develop some type pure UI, I think it makes for Microsoft to just do incremental improvements to the current desktop, attempting to keep it 100% legacy compatible and then providing a blank slate with Metro.
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Fully agree. It's just one of the key factors behind my hesitance to upgrade to Win8, and simply stick with Win7. As it is, 90% of my tasks and time spent on my PC and tablet (S1080) will still be done on the current desktop environment. Now, if Metro can offer me enough to warrant the price to upgrade and working with an additional UI screen for that extra 10% of the time, then I'll jump all over it in a heartbeat :)
 
On the other hand, I think it's a necessary step. The average consumer will be the main driving force behind the change, and I think they'll come to love it. Instead of working with old "desktops" and "programs", they can now work with a new slick interface and their favorite "apps" they can get from "app stores" ;)
 
Arainach said:
What, exactly, are you looking for? This isn't just a GUI overlay - the new development model is HUGE, and the functionality gains are huge too - integrated system and in-app search, the store, automatic process management/not having to close apps, IE10, you name it.
Click to expand...

1. Dump the metro start screen. It's annoying, ugly, adds no functionality, and makes older functionality more annoying and broken on a non touchscreen (it's pretty annoying having to have a 1080p+ screen full of giant buttons for use with a mouse, then lots of "tap and drag" is annoying). It seems too focused on the relatively tiny market of touch screen tablets. The best suggestion, and logical solution would be make a touch edition with this, and leave the desktop with the extra features and if anyone is sadistic allow them to have the optional metro "I am a giant assed phone desktop" screen which will probably be dumped like the html desktop of windows 98 in the next OS. Then unfix some of the things which are pretty broken now, like the task manager, and shutdown.

In apps search. Meh. Some applications already have this function and it can be added without being a forced to only for windows 8 only status. Integrated system search from experience isn't really a new thing. The store isn't a good thing. Automatic process management should be added to older OSs. Not having to close applications is also pretty meh. ctrl+s, or save states, and could be added to whatever program already and probably less time consuming. IE10 = IE9 with square buttons and optional broken metro mode and some minor things that pretty much make it an IE9 patch.

What I am looking for, is something fundemental done in a better way which makes it easier and more enjoyable to use. Thats it. Or some kind of new background service a bit more than what is on the table for $100+. The whole thing just seems hald-assed. The more I play around with it, the more annoying several elements become. :(
 
DeathPrincess said:
Thats not really whats happening. People do want new stuff, but thats definately not what is being provided. Just some junky GUI that noone seems to want and a load of old features that might as well be patched into 7. There really is very little progress or innovation. It's not the same as wanting to use DOS for everything as wanting a new OS to have, you know, new features. What I am looking for is for windows 8 to bring something shiny and new, but this isn't happening, it's the same old stuff. It needs some kind of good innovation not any kind of innovation.

Adobe photoshop cs5 on a 7200rpm hitachi = 10 seconds (the first time). The second time...less than 3 (probably because of prefetch).
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rudy said:
I do not get how WinRT will achieve all this. First of all ya smart phones can launch things fast but the things they run are NOTHING even remotely close to the size and complexity of what is being run on a desktop. Smartphones are also all using flash based memory which mean they can basically run it like an SSD. All my programs launch in mere seconds or almost instantly on my PC because I run an SSD. I cannot see how magic can happen on the desktop.

I still feel that windows 8 is a slaptogether of a touch interface based on wp7 and windows 7. It feels like it, it behaves like it but people say differently. And most importantly the average consumer is going to be confused as shit by this system.
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First things first, SSDs are still cost prohibitive for the average consumer unless it gets added to a desktop PC one buys from Walmart and Best Buy that can be bought for under $500 or $600. SSDs would have to come down to the price of a magnetic hard drives pre-Thailand flood to achieve that goal of being in nearly every low end desktop that an average person buys to surf the internet or check email.

Secondly, it seems that Windows 8 is Microsoft's intention (and probably continuation) of making the OS more streamlined and easier to use for the average consumer (and average non-techie executive or office drone sitting behind a cubicle).

Thirdly, for the average Joe/Jill, many don't like to wait. We have to admit, humans can be an impatient bunch (and rather unpredictable). Take one of my friends for example. She's not the most computer literate person on the planet. She almost thought Chrome was a virus because it was installed alongside Avast. Plus, she doesn't have the patience to wait for a program to install itself and get it set up. She is the kind of person that will just hit "Next" on a program installation window continuously and hope it finishes soon. Hence, when she gets stuck, she usually calls me for computer help over Skype and fix remotely whatever she screwed up. I'm practically tech support for my friends at the moment.

If Microsoft can achieve with WinRT the ability to have a program install like a smartphone app and launch it as quickly without the hassle of configuration or fiddling with it, then Microsoft will have achieved what an average consumer have wanted for years. My friend above would love that happen. Like you said yourself, the smartphone app is much different than a desktop program due to complexity and what has to be installed in order for it to run.

Microsoft's hope with WinRT and how I understand it from the places I've read about it is to unify several different programming languages under one roof. How many of us have seen a program or game install C++ Redistributable 2005/2008 every time the game is first run/first installed? How about on Steam? It's already installed, why install it again? The same with DirectX.

My only assumption right now is that if a program built on WinRT is installed in Windows 8, the program is ready to run from the moment it's downloaded and installed. Its dependencies like DirectX and C++ Redistributable will already be there and ready. If a program in WinRT needs to install anything else like installing all of CS5 Master Suite or Office 15 Enterprise, it will do so in the background. Only the core files will be installed first and be ready to run from the start. The rest runs in the background without user intervention or fiddling. No more hitting "Next" and "Finish." Once on the computer, it's accessible directly from the MetroUI Start screen and ready to go.

That's my guess right now, and that's how I understand what WinRT will bring. If anyone has better knowledge of WinRT, feel free to explain it because I'm more web programming than desktop/offline application programming.

Again, if Microsoft can achieve that goal by the time Windows 8 is out or in a future OS like Windows 9, then it's going to be a very big change to how we do things on the computer.
 
MavericK96 said:
Well...based on current trends, Windows 9 should be good... ;)
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Yeah, haha... especially when you look at the pattern of good and bad Windows OS that were released.

If Win 8 is Microsoft's testing/proving ground for this new UI and WinRT stuff, then Win 9 should be an improved version of it. :p
 
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