Newer 2900Xt reviews? (people saying it matches a GTX)

[jmackay]

I'll try one more time: it doesn't matter if it was an "old" test or not because the problems that may have existed with the card and/or the rendering have been fixed, so any newer results will only be equal or better than those. I posted that link because it used all 4 cards in the test and was easy to compare them against each other.

You're trying to cloud the issue with non-issues (as usual), but the fact remains that the 2900XT can run with the GTX. You should accept it and move on.

You don't seem to understand that having rendering problems will inflate scores, which is why those issues make results invalid.

To put it simply, if a square, rectangle and sphere are all supposed to be rendered but only the square and sphere are rendered, it will do so faster than having to render all three.

So comparing a card that renders 3 vs 2 and saying its a fair test is just bs.

Just because in the future the problem is fixed and now all 3 objects are rendered doesn't mean you can use the data where only 2 were rendered.

CoJ is another benchmark which was inflated because AF was not being applied yet many reviewers failed to comment on that and listed their results as having AF on, thus inflating the scores.

 

[aztec61]

Aztec, you gotta rely on something other than tweaktown for your info. You sound like the Tiger Direct review show guy when you talk about the 2900xt lol. Every post you make is about how awesome the 2900xt is...its a good card! we get it! shut up already! it still is about on par with a 640mb 8800gts, and priced accordingly, so take it easy and chill.

I've seen several other reviews on all of the above cards, so you gotta not rely so much on inane assumptions.

The main reason I post at all about the 2900 is when dipshits like jmackay start passing out the hate speech on this card. I don't see the point in spreading disinformation on good products. It's the Nv fanbwois that need to chill.

 

[MrGuvernment]

^^ it is not all fanboism, alot of it is pure fact that the 2900 is / was / sometimes is a poor performer vs GTS cards and more so vs GTX.


i love ATI, but i am not going to buy a c ard that cant perform with AA and AF on, you may not need that so it doesnt matter to you, but it does for me now, i like a smooth looking game, especially if i drop $400 on a video card when i could drop sub $400 and get a card that can do what the $400 card cant.

 

[dnottis]

I OWNED both....I kept my OC'd GTS over the 2900XT because I like to use AA.

 

[Spoudazo]

Well, the 8800gtx is about the size of a small country, so I expect it to be power hungry.

I was really looking forward to "the R600." I hope ATI all surprises us next go-around.

My 8800gtx pairs nicely with my new Q6600.

 

[jmackay]

I've seen several other reviews on all of the above cards, so you gotta not rely so much on inane assumptions.

The main reason I post at all about the 2900 is when dipshits like jmackay start passing out the hate speech on this card. I don't see the point in spreading disinformation on good products. It's the Nv fanbwois that need to chill.

Where is all of this "hate speech"?

 

[phide]

However, there is no basis in real-world use for anyone to dislike [the 2900 XT].

I'm sure many would dispute that. There are certainly reasons one might have to dislike the XT, just as there are reasons one may have to dislike G8x-based cards. For instance, the GTX is very long and doesn't support audio-over-HDMI. I can't really think of any others at the moment, but I'll try to ponder on it for a fortnight.

Dubious? I want to know who is constantly perpetuating the myth that at high resolution you don't really need AA.

I'd imagine it's because he feels that persuading people that AA's visual impact is negligible benefits his agenda by making R600 seem less crippled. If he convinces an individual that at "high resolutions", AA's benefits are meaningless, that individual will pay less mind to R600's critical flaw and view it more positively.

Actually with the shift to LCD and bigger screens...AA is getting more important, not less. Our dot pitch over the past 3 years has gotten worse...not better. The people who have 37" westies need AA quite significantly.

Quoted for truth. You hit the nail square on the head.

 

[snaggletooth]

simple question:

2900XT owners: where are YOUR numbers???


i've been waiting and waiting and waiting for someone to god damn well prove this card is worth something.

no one does.

no benches with this card.

because ENTHUSIASTS wont buy this card.

and when they do, they BENCH IT (thanks blackstone)

informing OTHER ENTHUSIASTS why to buy/not to buy

so, 2900XT owners, that last user comparo here in the ATI subforum pitting the 8800vs2900XT was quite some time ago and it didn't go well for the 2900XT.

load up the newest drivers, overclock the snot outta the 2900XT and show the ENTHUSIASTS why your numbers are right.

or STFU

 

[dnottis]

simple question:

2900XT owners: where are YOUR numbers???


i've been waiting and waiting and waiting for someone to god damn well prove this card is worth something.

no one does.

no benches with this card.

because ENTHUSIASTS wont buy this card.

and when they do, they BENCH IT (thanks blackstone)

informing OTHER ENTHUSIASTS why to buy/not to buy

so, 2900XT owners, that last user comparo here in the ATI subforum pitting the 8800vs2900XT was quite some time ago and it didn't go well for the 2900XT.

load up the newest drivers, overclock the snot outta the 2900XT and show the ENTHUSIASTS why your numbers are right.

or STFU

This review will be online shortly at 3DXtreme.net. I kept the OC'd 8800GTS over the 2900XT. Check the numbers at stock the 2900XT wins. Overclocked the GTS was more consistent. Infernal wouldn't run on the 2900XT after 7.7s.

There is a typo on the OC (right column) the 2900XT was at 900/980 NOT 860 and the drivers were 7.9 WHQL. I updated the scores but forgot to change the clocks and the driver revision. It was water cooled and would occasionally freeze but I wanted to push it hard to see what the results would be. Anything over 900Mhz on the core would freeze - even on water.

The big problem with the 2900XT was consistency - performance and compatibility. Overall the GTS was smoother, provided better frames and worked with more games in DX9 and DX10. These are just raw numbers at this point. Unreal 3 games without AA ran better on the 2900XT, but AA could be forced on the GTS and (if you rename the exe to oblivion.exe can force on 2900XT) forced the GTS won.

Another factor was drivers. I am all for monthly releases, however this month I think Nvidia put out 4 sets of drivers. ATI had 1 and when something is broken, it's broken for much longer because of the monthly release schedule.

 

[LawGiver]

no dude the 2900 just doesnt have the raw texture fillrate power of the 8800 series for one (GTX has almost twice the texture fillrate power), and a second reason for its hit when AA is on is cuz it doesnt have any dedicated hardware for AA its all done via shaders. but considering all those drawbacks, im still amazed it performs as well as it does. but it definenlty cannot compete with the GTX in most cases thus the price difference. although the $250 2900 Pro model coming soon with slightly lower clocks makes getting a GTX less appealing.

 

[snaggletooth]

snip

impressive bunch of work there.


couple of questions about the chart though

1) what res was CoJ set to?
2) dnr=did not render?
3) wnr=would not run?


every set of bioshock numbers i see keeps indicating that the r600 is a beast... and it looks like it even works sometimes with AA on. the hit it takes in dirt for AA would for sure be a noticable one, both in fps and image quality, but then in CoJ it renders 4xMSAA faster than the 8800, not that the fps is a playable one. interesting all the same though.


i'd be interested to see how WIC renders on the 2900XT @ 1680x1050, with and without some AA, that seems to be the card killer at the moment.


/subscribed

keep those numbers + pictures rollin in, 2900XT owners.

 

[aztec61]

More than 4AA/8AF I've never seen make a visual difference in any game on any card. All it does is unnecessarily eat up frame rate. But if you want to psyche yourselves out that high AA/AF is great, go ahead.

 

[dnottis]

1) what res was CoJ set to? I'd have to check - 1280x1024 most likely since my NEC gx2 90 is max there
2) dnr=did not render? Did not run
3) wnr=would not run? would not run

 

[Sr7]

You're trying to cloud the issue with non-issues (as usual), but the fact remains that the 2900XT can run with the GTX. You should accept it and move on.

HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHA

oh man that was funny...





...BAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[MrGuvernment]

More than 4AA/8AF I've never seen make a visual difference in any game on any card. All it does is unnecessarily eat up frame rate. But if you want to psyche yourselves out that high AA/AF is great, go ahead.

that is your personal preference, that is like saying no one can see over 30FPS, but we all know is BS.


I am always one to go with higher resolutions and never used AA or AF until i got my x800 XT i had and could, and even now on my 7600 GT and some older games i can notice the AA used on games at 1680 x 1050, same with my uncle rig i built him with an 8800 GTS 320 and games played there, i can see the diff between "high aa" and 4x.

 

[aztec61]

...i can see the diff between "high aa" and 4x.

We all have our opinions.

 

[The Null]

its been proven before, the 2900XT cant compete with a 8800GTX.

 

[Spoudazo]

And BTW, not to be "hating" on any owners of certain GPUs, the 8800 series came out last year, so most certainly if anything, it is unfair to compare the 8800gts or 8800gtx to the 2900xt, however, the 8800 series still wins, that's why you see people Ebaying their "R600" and going GREEN until AMD/ATI steps up.

After my issues I had with my 7900gtx, I was WANTING to try ATI for a while, but there is no reason to at the moment.

 

[JackAshley]

We all have our opinions.

But just a second ago you said it was fact, not opinion....you said it has no visual difference, and just unnecessarily eats up frames.

Ignorance is bliss, no?

 

[MrGuvernment]

We all have our opinions.

yes we do, but you seem to think other people who like high AA / AF are only pysch'n themselves out and there is no reason for it.. so now your putting your opinion as a fact to people telling them there is no difference because apparently you dont see one so it is all psycological.

But if you want to psyche yourselves out that high AA/AF is great, go ahead.

 

[MrGuvernment]

And BTW, not to be "hating" on any owners of certain GPUs, the 8800 series came out last year, so most certainly if anything, it is unfair to compare the 8800gts or 8800gtx to the 2900xt, however, the 8800 series still wins, that's why you see people Ebaying their "R600" and going GREEN until AMD/ATI steps up.

After my issues I had with my 7900gtx, I was WANTING to try ATI for a while, but there is no reason to at the moment.

Dont give me the "it's unfair to compare them" ....it is "unfair" to NVIDIA, not ATI as you say... because ATI is comparing a brand new card to an old card, but i am sure if ATI kicked the crap out of the GTS / GTX this argument would never stand up "its not fair" the NVIDIA card is 1 year old!! but since ATI is so beyond, it is of course okay to compare them....


it is completly fair to compare them because they are in the same arena price range /market area together ehat ever.. just because something is a year old and ATI was so delayed with this card... doesnt mean it should be in a class of it's own, they need to compare it to something...

 

[JackAshley]

Dont give me the "it's unfair to compare them" ....it is "unfair" to NVIDIA, not ATI as you say... because ATI is comparing a brand new card to an old card, but i am sure if ATI kicked the crap out of the GTS / GTX this argument would never stand up "its not fair" the NVIDIA card is 1 year old!! but since ATI is so beyond, it is of course okay to compare them....


it is completly fair to compare them because they are in the same arena price range /market area together ehat ever.. just because something is a year old and ATI was so delayed with this card... doesnt mean it should be in a class of it's own, they need to compare it to something...

True, true, but the point of the fact is that a card that was out more than 6 months later should have decimated the 8800's, especially if it were to be priced the same. But it didnt, so that's food for thought too. Newer technology shouldnt compare to older technology - it should be well beyond it.

 

[GregP24]

Newer technology shouldnt compare to older technology - it ut it didnt, so that's food for thought too. should be well beyond it.

But the R600 was really 'extremely delayed' technology. Not so much newer than G80 architecture. Wait - wasn't it in development well before the G80s?

 

[JackAshley]

But the R600 was really 'extremely delayed' technology. Not so much newer than G80 architecture. Wait - wasn't it in development well before the G80s?

What does that matter as far as the consumer goes? This video card came out much later, it should be much better. (consumer speaking, not me)

 

[MrGuvernment]

^^ i totally agre, one would think with the time delayed, they had tons of time to see how it would perform vs NVIDIA and they still came out under them.

 

[FIDDYOWNZ]

True, true, but the point of the fact is that a card that was out more than 6 months later should have decimated the 8800's, especially if it were to be priced the same. But it didnt, so that's food for thought too. Newer technology shouldnt compare to older technology - it should be well beyond it.

What does that matter as far as the consumer goes? This video card came out much later, it should be much better. (consumer speaking, not me)

Couldn't have said it better myself. And you can't compare new technology to old technology just because it cost about the same, it just doesn't work like that.

 

[jimmyb]

And you can't compare new technology to old technology just because it cost about the same, it just doesn't work like that.

Actually that's exactly what should be compared: two competing products which cost about the same. As a consumer I don't care if something is "new" or "old", I just care about the relative performance at a certain price.

 

[KENNYB]

ATI and nVidia used to release their next-gen cards almost simultaneously. Direct comparisons were easier back then. Even though the 8800 is older than the 2900, we still need a dollar-for-dollar comparison.

 

[Spoudazo]

They're in the same price range because Nvidia has had no need to drop prices, because they have had no worth-while competition this time around.

 

[Romale23]

i know this is sort of off topic but anyone know when the 2950 is going to come out? only reason i ask is because i play eve which in november is going dx10 and i've been trying to hold out till the next set of cards is released before i decide what to get

 

[aztec61]

But just a second ago you said it was fact, not opinion....you said it has no visual difference, and just unnecessarily eats up frames.

Ignorance is bliss, no?

I stated my opinion, as did MrG, and did not say it was "fact". Those are your words. Quit lying.

 

[JackAshley]

I stated my opinion, as did MrG, and did not say it was "fact". Those are your words. Quit lying.

Yes Mas'sa, sorry Mas'sa. I ain't gonna do it again Mas'sa.

 

[Citizen86]

The main reason I post at all about the 2900 is when dipshits like jmackay start passing out the hate speech on this card. I don't see the point in spreading disinformation on good products. It's the Nv fanbwois that need to chill.

In response to:

Please point out where I lied or provided false information.

I said if there is a problem in rendering, reviewers need to take the time to find them and talk about them.

Hell plenty of people have posted on these forums about problems with their 2900xt, ditto for 8 series or ANY other card. You can't sweep them under the rug and pretend they don't exist though.

Ask Blackstone how he enjoyed his 2900xt, or look at the stuff I posted above from an ATI forum (Rage3d) about their problems with their 2900 cards with regards to rendering.

What about the bioshock rendering problems when it first came out, or AF not working correctly in quite a few games which many reviewers missed.

Feel free to argue if you wish or personally attack me, but I'm just providing the facts.

You just don't get it...

You pointed out benchmarks using 7.5 drivers. I pointed out flaws with older drivers that caused stuff to render incorrectly.

Now you are saying that I am the one living in the past? Heelllllllooo, you brought it up. Yes those issues have been addressed, but that doesn't mean you can backdate the fixes to possibly broken tests.

He's definitely a Hitler for sure.

I love this part:

More than 4AA/8AF I've never seen make a visual difference in any game on any card. All it does is unnecessarily eat up frame rate. But if you want to psyche yourselves out that high AA/AF is great, go ahead.

I stated my opinion, as did MrG, and did not say it was "fact". Those are your words. Quit lying.

You should learn the difference between stating "fact" and "opinion". They are very different things, not interchangeable, especially at YOUR bidding. Sorry, you are not God.

Aztec, you gotta rely on something other than tweaktown for your info. You sound like the Tiger Direct review show guy when you talk about the 2900xt lol. Every post you make is about how awesome the 2900xt is...its a good card! we get it! shut up already! it still is about on par with a 640mb 8800gts, and priced accordingly, so take it easy and chill.

Agreed. lolz.

Those were my highlights from another thread that *could* have been decent but was shat all over on by a 2900XT owner. I'm not saying all are, many are willing to have a regular conversation, even a debate, but there are a select few who have no debate, only childish name calling and stating what they think as pure, unadulterated fact, showing the world of computer enthusiasts how they are so misguided and mislead. Aren't we glad to have them on our forums? Let's give the select few, you know who you are, a big round of applause.

 

[Eastcoasthandle]

dnottis,
map map did you use to obtain the dirt results?

 

[FIDDYOWNZ]

Actually that's exactly what should be compared: two competing products which cost about the same. As a consumer I don't care if something is "new" or "old", I just care about the relative performance at a certain price.

That may be true for you. But ATi was nearly six months late, and still fell behind cards that we have all been running since then. As late as ATi was, they should have decimated NV. But they didn't.

And to restate my opinion. Technology moves fast. We are all aware of that. Six months in HW/SW time is a long time, it really is. Technology that comes out 6 months later should be much much much better than HW that came out 6 months ago.

And you state that NV and ATi are competing? I beg to differ. NV has controlled the high-end market for a long time, and thats precisely why the price on the 88 cards isn't dropping. ATi isn't competing at all - anyone with half a brain stem and a need for AA will make the obvious choice.

Peace
~FIDS

 

[snaggletooth]

dnottis,
map map did you use to obtain the dirt results?

good question here, would get this thread back on topic. there's a big difference in frame rates comparing the exact same card/settings, depending on what car you pick, in the demo anyways.

 

[Trimlock]

We compare computer products to see which one we should buy, not which company should have what kind of performance or ethics the other company followed.

there are no set rules on what anyone has to do or should do, if you don't like how a reviewer does his/her review then ignore it, if you think the product shouldn't be compared to another ... well thats an opinion, and the whole reason for the review is for purchasing decisions and not for some un-founded glory.

 

[Eastcoasthandle]

hmm, no answer to my question yet.

 

[aztec61]

Desktop Video Card Guide - Fastest to Slowest

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/index.cfm?a=wiki&tag=rmp_vds

 

[JackAshley]

Desktop Video Card Guide - Fastest to Slowest

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/index.cfm?a=wiki&tag=rmp_vds

It's on the internets! It must be true!