No good affordable flatscreen on the market?

[SXTC]

Yours and Oled's problem is that it's all about you. You can't grasp the idea that ANYONE in the world has needs and wants different to yours. Most of my time at my PC is spent coding, reading documentation and surfing the web. Who are you to call me "either rich or stupid" because I can genuinely benefit from the extra pixels?

In the same respect, I should call you stupid for wanting to get a graphics card at all. Just get a motherboard with a crappy onboard chip, because you don't really NEED to play any of the new games on high detail. Just bump it all down to low quality, and you're fine. Besides, who plays the new games anyway? Lol, losers. Just play Minesweeper, there's no reason to play anything else. Okay, I admit it gets a bit boring, but then you have Solitaire. From this we can conclude that graphics cards are a waste of money, and anyone who buys one is either rich or stupid.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, stop talking shit. The 120 vertical pixels aren't worth it TO YOU, and that's all there is to it. Stop judging people because they don't like your cup of tea, and let them brew their own. Jesus fucking Christ...

If you want to play a high requirement game without lag on high settings ^^ You can say what you want but I've got experience enough with onboard VGA to say that it justdoesn't cut it, but then again, you didn't realy pay for that to start with (can't expect something good to come free).

I don't see what you have against me or Oled, I do not personaly know him but I see his point and just as me you should also respect his opinion (and mine ofcourse).
If you think you are right and do not want to listen to the opinion of others that do not agree with you, I still do not see why you would choose to insult those people or their hobbies. Please stay on topic, professional and do not make this personal.

**MAKES ANOTHER ATTEMPT TO PUT THIS TOPIC BACK "ON" TOPIC"

All of us know IPS is nice, high resolutions (as long as they don't cause much lag), non aggressive coating, LED, etc...
If you know of a monitor that shares most of these factors and still remain under 700$, please share them here, I dare you.
Because a lot of these options do not make that much of a diffirence and yet they charge an awfull lot of money for it...
Kinda discriminating if you ask me, this is another example of good stuff being for people that can either pay for it through work (photographers) or richer people that have no problems spending a lot of money through their personal funds (wich in some cases do not seem to run out... and they come here making us jaleous XD).
I just want a 27" Game monitor with good colors and a descent response and an affordable price, is that too much to ask for?

 

[Megalomaniac]

I don't see what you have against me or Oled, I do not personaly know him but I see his point and just as me you should also respect his opinion (and mine ofcourse).
If you think you are right and do not want to listen to the opinion of others that do not agree with you, I still do not see why you would choose to insult those people or their hobbies. Please stay on topic, professional and do not make this personal.

SXTC, im sorry that you feel that way, I am sure that many here feel the same about you two, that you behave not maturely and stick to only the one story that you have to tell. You have not once agreed that others have their own opinions. And Oled has called people stupid.

I thought we decided to end the 1920*1200...

I thought we decided to end the 1920*1200 discussion after STCX epic comment.

"1920x1200 is better in some ways, but when looking at the prices you'd have to be rich or stupid to even consider...

so please do not try to paint the "garbagemule" as the one who started it. He actually does ask you to enjoy your cup of tea and let us enjoy ours. Many others have said the same. Please do not misrepresent opinions here. No one said we don't respect your options, but do your respect ours?

Oh it doesn't?
Picture someone like me who isn't rich, I got a budget of 600$ and an average 1920x1080 27" monitor already costs around 320-400$,

Again, how are you respecting someone else opinion here? It is you you you. And if the 16:9 works for you, fine. We all acknowledged that it is cheaper and budget conscious people should consider them, we don't call you stupid for it. (at least, i don't think anyone did )

BTW, i have a smaller budget

 

[Jonte]

....

I just want a 27" Game monitor with good colors and a descent response and an affordable price, is that too much to ask for?

Nooo! Not again.
*frustrated*

I thought we went through that on the second page

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1600251&page=2

 

[SXTC]

Nooo! Not again.
*frustrated*

I thought we went through that on the second page

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1600251&page=2

Sorry about that, I guess I'm still not sure since I've seen about 50% for 1920x1080 and 50% for 1920x1200 so yes... but ignore it... I took a look... too expensive... so not worth looking into. Dead subject.

Anyway... as for the below quote's....

http://rationalwiki.org/w/images/7/71/Internet_argument.jpg

SXTC, im sorry that you feel that way, I am sure that many here feel the same about you two, that you behave not maturely and stick to only the one story that you have to tell. You have not once agreed that others have their own opinions. And Oled has called people stupid.
so please do not try to paint the "garbagemule" as the one who started it. He actually does ask you to enjoy your cup of tea and let us enjoy ours. Many others have said the same. Please do not misrepresent opinions here. No one said we don't respect your options, but do your respect ours?

Excuse me? I do not know who you are, perhaps garbagemule's friend (most obvious) but here I am "ASKING" to respect the opinion of others and somehow you feel this is me being imature?
I have come here to get help and so far I've learned much allready and I'm trying to help others in the process with what I've learned. But I do not see why you paste it on me that Oled should have insulted someone... I mean.. what does this have to do with me? I just see a conversation wich was about to get out of hand for the wrong reasons and tried to talk some sense in your friend, I'm sure he is wise enough to understand. So why turn a fly into an elephant and make this post? And I do respect your opinion, I just don't want to be forced to agree.

Again, how are you respecting someone else opinion here? It is you you you. And if the 16:9 works for you, fine. We all acknowledged that it is cheaper and budget conscious people should consider them, we don't call you stupid for it. (at least, i don't think anyone did )

Actualy you are not entirely correct with this statement, as I said I'm still learning and eventhough people say 16:9 is good, deep down inside I would still like a monitor that is slightly larger but it's too expensive and the diffirence isn't worth the money. If you feel this makes me a 16:9 lover, so be it but I realy don't understand what the fuss is about anyway or why you people keep this subject going.
And if you say I'm the kind of person that thinks it's all about MY opinion then you are correct, I believe in democrasy so I will let my opinion be heard. If anyone does not agree they can prove to me why they do not, but I expect them to not whipe away my opinion through a personal (rude) opinion without proof to back up their claims.

BTW, i have a smaller budget

2 reasons, or you are a student, or you have your own house and are trying your very best to keep the bills paid.
I am married, have one daughter and to this day still lived with his parents (money shortage) and seeing as we have found a house that is a little under our planned budget, we have a little extra to use (until it runs out).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm gona keep it shorter next time, does anyone know a very good monitor (gaming & movies) for a descent price (wich means under 700$)?

 

[garbagemule]

First of all, I don't know Megalomaniac. Stop making childish assumptions. I respect your opinion, and I expect you to show me the same respect. But you don't. What you say is that there is no way the added pixels are worth the price, but who are you to tell me if they're worth it or not? That's my whole point. I respect your opinion, but I'm sick and tired of this childish twaddle where you (and Oled) keep saying "Okay, MY PREFERENCE is the best, other people's preferences are okay, but they must be either rich or stupid to think that way."

My objection is not to your opinion of the aspect ratio - it's to your insults towards other people. And the worst part is that you don't really seem to understand that you're doing it. You need to learn to put "to me" and "for me" and "for my needs" in most of your sentences, because without those little extras, it sounds like you're making a general statement, that 120 vertical pixels isn't worth its price to anyone. Your problem is not your preference, but your unjustified insults towards people with different requirements or preferences than yourself. I respect your cup of tea, and I'm sure it's the right cup FOR YOU. But my cup of tea is the right cup FOR ME, so stop saying that it isn't.

If you want to play a high requirement game without lag on high settings ^^ You can say what you want but I've got experience enough with onboard VGA to say that it justdoesn't cut it, but then again, you didn't realy pay for that to start with (can't expect something good to come free).

You clearly didn't pick up on the sarcasm in my graphics card remark. I'm well aware of the limitations of many onboard chips, and that's why I made the analogy. What I meant to say is that if you say that 120 pixels aren't worth it, period, then I can say that graphics cards aren't worth it, period. You see how the lack of "for me" and "for you" in those sentences makes them global/general statements that apply to everyone? People don't like that. You like your big graphics cards, I like my extra pixels. So let me turn this quote against you:

"You can say what you want, but I've got enough experience with 16:9 monitors to say that they just don't cut it, but then again, you can't expect something good to come at such a low price."

No, I'm not a 16:10 fanboy, and no, I'm not saying your decisions and opinions are bad or wrong - quite the contrary. I'm saying show me (and everyone else who doesn't share your opinions/preferences) the same respect we're showing you.

Sure, you can get from A to B faster in a car, but what if I enjoy my bicycle?

Edit: But yeah, let's carry on with constructive posts instead. I just can't help myself when people are unfair and snide.

 

[SXTC]

First of all, I don't know Megalomaniac. Stop making childish assumptions. I respect your opinion, and I expect you to show me the same respect. But you don't. What you say is that there is no way the added pixels are worth the price, but who are you to tell me if they're worth it or not? That's my whole point. I respect your opinion, but I'm sick and tired of this childish twaddle where you (and Oled) keep saying "Okay, MY PREFERENCE is the best, other people's preferences are okay, but they must be either rich or stupid to think that way."

My objection is not to your opinion of the aspect ratio - it's to your insults towards other people. And the worst part is that you don't really seem to understand that you're doing it. You need to learn to put "to me" and "for me" and "for my needs" in most of your sentences, because without those little extras, it sounds like you're making a general statement, that 120 vertical pixels isn't worth its price to anyone. Your problem is not your preference, but your unjustified insults towards people with different requirements or preferences than yourself. I respect your cup of tea, and I'm sure it's the right cup FOR YOU. But my cup of tea is the right cup FOR ME, so stop saying that it isn't.



You clearly didn't pick up on the sarcasm in my graphics card remark. I'm well aware of the limitations of many onboard chips, and that's why I made the analogy. What I meant to say is that if you say that 120 pixels aren't worth it, period, then I can say that graphics cards aren't worth it, period. You see how the lack of "for me" and "for you" in those sentences makes them global/general statements that apply to everyone? People don't like that. You like your big graphics cards, I like my extra pixels. So let me turn this quote against you:

"You can say what you want, but I've got enough experience with 16:9 monitors to say that they just don't cut it, but then again, you can't expect something good to come at such a low price."

No, I'm not a 16:10 fanboy, and no, I'm not saying your decisions and opinions are bad or wrong - quite the contrary. I'm saying show me (and everyone else who doesn't share your opinions/preferences) the same respect we're showing you.

Sure, you can get from A to B faster in a car, but what if I enjoy my bicycle?

Edit: But yeah, let's carry on with constructive posts instead. I just can't help myself when people are unfair and snide.

You say you respect my opinion and yet you call them childish assumptions and you clearly state that you are fed up with me sticking to what I believe in (my opinion).
If I read on you do not realy come off as the kind of guy that has the intention to respect anyone that doesn't agree with you. I suggest that as adults we stop this silly arguement and come back on topic. There's no point to keep debating what has allready been discussed and there's no point of you not to agree on the fact that 27" 1920x1200 is a lot more expensive then 27" 1920x1080 but the diffirence in performance barely differs so lets drop this ok.

 

[suiken_2mieu]

Well I would recommended a Dell 3007wfp-HC. I lacks all the newer LG AG TASTICNESS of newer screens, it's IPS, it also lacks a internal scaler so input lag is minimal, has a decent resolution of 2560x1600, and colors and viewing angles are good. You can get them used for about $700 (I got one of mine for $300 and another for $400 Both on craigslist) and the last one I hunkered down and payed $700 for it.

I like this monitor a lot and have not had one better than it (except for inputs as it only has Dual-Link DVI).

EDIT: Also on a side note, I like more jelly than peanut butter on my peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

 

[Oled]

Please stay on topic, professional and do not make this personal.

Totally agree!

All of us know IPS is nice, high resolutions (as long as they don't cause much lag), non aggressive coating, LED, etc...
If you know of a monitor that shares most of these factors and still remain under 700$, please share them here, I dare you.
Because a lot of these options do not make that much of a diffirence and yet they charge an awfull lot of money for it...
Kinda discriminating if you ask me, this is another example of good stuff being for people that can either pay for it through work (photographers) or richer people that have no problems spending a lot of money through their personal funds (wich in some cases do not seem to run out... and they come here making us jaleous XD).
I just want a 27" Game monitor with good colors and a descent response and an affordable price, is that too much to ask for?

Definitely not, but at the moments the alternatives are very few, maybe even none in fact. Hopefully we could get a good review of the LG E2770V. That could be a monitor that is worthy the description "good affordable monitor" but there are also questions that needs to be answered around it.

There is a 27 inch MVA panel which will be available on the market later this year. That panel should definitely be better than the TN:s on the market. But questions need to be answered around ghosting and lag before it could be said to be a "good affordable flatscreen" on the market. And the history of MVA panels isnt the greatest either.

The descpription of Samsung SA850 27" sounds great but it probably will be to expensive.

Someone in another thread claimed that lowbudget brands in China have started to sell 2560*1440 IPS for around $350. Hazro has done something similar and have an IPS 2560*1440 for similar prices. The problem is that the quality of their panels are so low that you are better without them.

 

[SXTC]

Totally agree!



Definitely not, but at the moments the alternatives are very few, maybe even none in fact. Hopefully we could get a good review of the LG E2770V. That could be a monitor that is worthy the description "good affordable monitor" but there are also questions that needs to be answered around it.

There is a 27 inch MVA panel which will be available on the market later this year. That panel should definitely be better than the TN:s on the market. But questions need to be answered around ghosting and lag before it could be said to be a "good affordable flatscreen" on the market. And the history of MVA panels isnt the greatest either.

The descpription of Samsung SA850 27" sounds great but it probably will be to expensive.

Someone in another thread claimed that lowbudget brands in China have started to sell 2560*1440 IPS for around $350. Hazro has done something similar and have an IPS 2560*1440 for similar prices. The problem is that the quality of their panels are so low that you are better without them.

What I wonder about is if there are any affordable 27" monitors that are exellent for gaming... I'm not the type of person to wait, especialy since I've waited years allready :/

 

[Oled]

What I wonder about is if there are any affordable 27" monitors that are exellent for gaming... I'm not the type of person to wait, especialy since I've waited years allready :/

Yea, this is strange. It appears in this field that we will wait forever.

How is your sisters Samsung btw? Anything to consider?

 

[Neb]

There's no point to keep debating what has allready been discussed and there's no point of you not to agree on the fact that 27" 1920x1200 is a lot more expensive then 27" 1920x1080 but the diffirence in performance barely differs so lets drop this ok.

Just FYI, if you had taken that highly subjective bold section out, your statement would have been fine. As you wrote it though, it's easy to take offense to it.

I'm curious, do you folks have any examples of panels that are identically spec'd aside from resolution that have a cost difference of 2x?

As a somewhat related anecdote, last night I was watching a movie on my main screen and just for whims I dragged it over to the 27" 16:9. Guess what....there were massive black bars on top and bottom

 

[albovin]

You say you respect my opinion and yet you call them childish assumptions and you clearly state that you are fed up with me sticking to what I believe in (my opinion).
If I read on you do not realy come off as the kind of guy that has the intention to respect anyone that doesn't agree with you. I suggest that as adults we stop this silly arguement and come back on topic. There's no point to keep debating what has allready been discussed and there's no point of you not to agree on the fact that 27" 1920x1200 is a lot more expensive then 27" 1920x1080 but the diffirence in performance barely differs so lets drop this ok.

This thread has no topic.
This is a provocative nonsense that disrupts the community.
The OP shows his disrespect to Harforum starting multiple threads with the same question.
The OP disrespects Hardforum members which spent their time answering his questions. Answers are ignored and the question that has been answered is asked again and again.

Every time I open Hardforum I see this provocative toxic thread floating on top.
This is awful.

Someone has to put an end to this.

 

[Neb]

The OP shows his disrespect to Harforum starting multiple threads with the same question.

That's a good point, never really noticed it until I checked his started threads:

Help me choose the best gaming monitor for my needs

27" LCD/LED monitors General topic

NEW MONITORS 2011

Still having doubts about what screen to buy.

No good affordable flatscreen on the market?

All are thinly veiled attempts at getting a monitor recommendation, with none of the ones offered being accepted. This thread is merely a continuation of the trend, it would seem that nothing will satisfy the OP.

 

[Jonte]

Sorry about that, I guess I'm still not sure since I've seen about 50% for 1920x1080 and 50% for 1920x1200 so yes... but ignore it... I took a look... too expensive... so not worth looking into. Dead subject.

A...

You misunderstood me. I'm not talking about resolutions.

the first post on this page...............

I just want a 27" Game monitor with good colors and a descent response and an affordable price, is that too much to ask for?

Nooo! Not again.
*frustrated*

I thought we went through that on the second page

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1600251&page=2

 

[SXTC]

Yea, this is strange. It appears in this field that we will wait forever.

How is your sisters Samsung btw? Anything to consider?

Well Mr Oled, just one minute before reading your reply here, I read that they had just sent it to me today.... (late) wich is why I didn't answer in the topic I made for it yet but rest assured I will not forget to do so.

Once I receive the monitor, you'll have the review within 12 hours.

You misunderstood me. I'm not talking about resolutions.

I did not misunderstand you at all Jonte, I just mentioned this as an example because I notice most people always reflect upon the resolution to point out the size diffirence of the screen (16:9 Vs 16:10).
Maybe I should have been more specific to avoid confusion. Sorry about that.

Just FYI, if you had taken that highly subjective bold section out, your statement would have been fine. As you wrote it though, it's easy to take offense to it.

I'm curious, do you folks have any examples of panels that are identically spec'd aside from resolution that have a cost difference of 2x?

As a somewhat related anecdote, last night I was watching a movie on my main screen and just for whims I dragged it over to the 27" 16:9. Guess what....there were massive black bars on top and bottom

Hmm my post isn't meant to be offensive so maybe it's just confusing, I do not hold it against you since Jonte also misunderstood what I was actualy trying to say because I said less then I should have said.
I was actualy referring to the 16:9 - 16:10 arguement, but I don't realy want to get into that conversation again since people are at eachothers troath about the subject for some reason and I want to keep my head on my shoulders :S

That's a good point, never really noticed it until I checked his started threads:

Help me choose the best gaming monitor for my needs

27" LCD/LED monitors General topic

NEW MONITORS 2011

Still having doubts about what screen to buy.

No good affordable flatscreen on the market?

All are thinly veiled attempts at getting a monitor recommendation, with none of the ones offered being accepted. This thread is merely a continuation of the trend, it would seem that nothing will satisfy the OP.

Maybe if you actualy read the topics instead of trying to flame (I know this because you even mentioned a link to this very topic to make it look like I made an extra topic), you would have clearly noticed that 3 of those 5 topics were created to help others find a good monitors since I had read that 27" momentarily has the best quality for a low price. But ofcourse that might be the reason why you forget to mention topics such as these: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1602760 .
Other abandonned topics had gone dead, in this topic there are people trying to help out wich is why I mainly concentrate on this one right now. Got a problem with me making more then 1 topic? I don't see a "no posting" rule anywhere and it's still a democrasy.

This thread has no topic.
This is a provocative nonsense that disrupts the community.
The OP shows his disrespect to Harforum starting multiple threads with the same question.
The OP disrespects Hardforum members which spent their time answering his questions. Answers are ignored and the question that has been answered is asked again and again.

Every time I open Hardforum I see this provocative toxic thread floating on top.
This is awful.

Someone has to put an end to this.

If you realy wish to put this to an end, why do you restart what allready ended? (check my last post)

I came here with questions, if a topic goes dead or no one answers my question clearly, it is normal I try to find answers elsewhere.
I never knew there was a rule that pointed out that an unanswered question couldn't be asked again...
If I have pissed you off by looking for answers then I am sorry eventhough I myself do not see fault in that...
If anyone feels offended by my posts then I am sorry because I didn't even try to offend you and yet you seem to be.

I came to this forum to get helped and possibly help others in the process, not to disrespect others like some of you claim because I am certain that I did not personaly insult any of you (maybe by not agreeing...).

This topic is here to discuss monitors, not your personal feelings towards me so PLEASE !!! stay....on.....TOPIC !!!! (Who just promoted me to popular?? A handfull of people seem to have it in for me as of shortly ago)

Well I would recommended a Dell 3007wfp-HC. I lacks all the newer LG AG TASTICNESS of newer screens, it's IPS, it also lacks a internal scaler so input lag is minimal, has a decent resolution of 2560x1600, and colors and viewing angles are good. You can get them used for about $700 (I got one of mine for $300 and another for $400 Both on craigslist) and the last one I hunkered down and payed $700 for it.

I like this monitor a lot and have not had one better than it (except for inputs as it only has Dual-Link DVI).

EDIT: Also on a side note, I like more jelly than peanut butter on my peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

Hmm I always heard Dell's monitors weren't fast enough and that you would see ghosting/blur during hardcore gaming...
are you saying you didn't notice this? If so this is indeed a monitor to consider.

 

[Megalomaniac]

I came to this forum to get helped and possibly help others in the process, not to disrespect others like some of you claim because I am certain that I did not personaly insult any of you (maybe by not agreeing...).

This topic is here to discuss monitors, not your personal feelings towards me so PLEASE !!! stay....on.....TOPIC !!!! (Who just promoted me to popular?? A handfull of people sees to have it in for me as of shortly ago)

I count not less than 3 answers to your request on the first page alone. We did go down the 1080vs1200 discussion pretty fast after that. I looked at some of the threads Ned pointed out and people tried to help you there too. Maybe there is no monitor that is cheap enough and good enough for you? There is nothing wrong with wanting to have an informed decision, but what is wrong with the monitors that people suggested to you?

How about this, you have a had a lot of feed back now and I am pretty sure you can figure out, by now, what the best monitor for you is. So what, through all of these threads, have you learned? Have you narrowed down your search to the final 3?

Personally, i have been following the "Dell U2311H vs HP ZR24w " thread and I like what I see there. (except the Walker vs NCX debate which derailed it a bit)
Another good example of a thread is "U2311H or 2209WA for gaming" the guys comes in with two monitors that he likes and asks the community for help.

 

[daveswantek]

This topic is here to discuss monitors, not your personal feelings towards me so PLEASE !!! stay....on.....TOPIC !!!! (Who just promoted me to popular?? A handfull of people seem to have it in for me as of shortly ago)

What is the topic? A 27 inch gaming monitor? There isn't one and we all know that. The choices are TNs like the Hanns or Viewsonic, or Various IPS options like older Dell 30's with no scaler along with the LG, HP and so on.

With flat panels you cannot have it all, you have to make tradeoffs and we all know what they are.

This thread is really just venting and I am OK with that. Just be clear about it.

Dave

 

[garbagemule]

You say you respect my opinion and yet you call them childish assumptions and you clearly state that you are fed up with me sticking to what I believe in (my opinion).

Again, don't talk shit. Seriously, you're calling everyone stupid for not sharing your preferences. That's childish. Stop twisting my words. If "what you believe in" is that everyone else is stupid if they don't have the same needs as you do, then no, I don't respect your opinion, because it's insulting, immature, and naive. If that kind of twaddle is what you're defending, then you are a disgrace to this community.

If I read on you do not realy come off as the kind of guy that has the intention to respect anyone that doesn't agree with you. I suggest that as adults we stop this silly arguement and come back on topic. There's no point to keep debating what has allready been discussed and there's no point of you not to agree on the fact that 27" 1920x1200 is a lot more expensive then 27" 1920x1080 but the diffirence in performance barely differs so lets drop this ok.

No, not "ok". First of all, I have NOT ONCE said that 16:10 isn't more expensive than 16:9, so stop talking shit. I know they cost more, but that doesn't mean they're not good value for money FOR SOME PEOPLE. Second of all, Stop saying that 1920x1200 is useless/overpriced/not-as-good-as-1920x1080. You admitted to be here to learn, so learn this: Outside of 1920x1200 doing exactly what 1920x1080 does, AND MORE, it's a matter of preference. What I'm sick and tired of is your irritating habit of dropping these insult bombs on everyone who doesn't agree with you. The extra 120 pixels make a difference TO OTHER PEOPLE, so stop saying that "it's worthless, period." That's wrong. You're wrong. It's worthless, TO YOU, perhaps, but that's a completely different matter. It's not worthless to me, and I can, indeed, use those extra pixels. I'm letting you have your cup of tea, so let me have my cup of tea without calling me "rich or stupid" for choosing a different kind of tea than you. Child...

What you say is: "1920x1080 is better, because the added 120 pixels aren't worth it."

What you SHOULD say is: "1920x1080 is better FOR ME, because the added 120 pixels aren't worth it, TO ME."

Do you understand the message I'm trying to communicate? Because all your other posts indicate that you don't. I don't care if you think people are either "rich or stupid" if they buy a 16:10 monitor - you can think that all you want - but stop saying it on the forums, because it's childish and insulting.

And no, I refuse to "get back on topic" before you stop this ridiculous "wanting to get the last word". If your opinion is that "1920x1200 is not worth it to me", then that's fine. If your opinion is that "1920x1200 is not worth it at all, and anyone who thinks otherwise is either rich or stupid", then gtfo. That's not the spirit of this community.

Edit: I suppose persistently trying to teach people objectivity isn't really the spirit of the community either. There should be an objectivity test to sign up :<

 

[luluthemonk]

I would just like to say, garbagemule has been AMAZINGLY respectful towards you SXTC, has been gracious, kind, and patient beyond belief.

You are making generalized comments, which are marginalizing the needs of others. Case in point: Usage on my personal computer at home is probably 60% web browsing/coding, 30% editing photographs, 10% gaming.

The difference in "performance" or as I would put it, the difference in resolution TO ME, is actually very large. Looking at the HP ZR24W, vs say the LG E2770, while nearly equivalently priced, I PERSONALLY find more value in the 24" screen than the 27". I will be sitting close enough to the monitor that I find getting the larger 27", and therefore 'larger pixels' and less actual screen real estate to be silly, again, TO ME.

Having said that, I understand that for YOUR needs, you seek a monitor within a certain price range, that is 27" with a heavy emphasis for gaming, and therefore seek other features that are less important, and say this with me, TO ME.

To try and sum this up:
Important FOR ME:
Higher resolution
Color accuracy
Price (I can't afford a $1,000 monitor, as much as I would like, and my budget is about $400)
etc.

Important FOR YOU:
Larger screen regardless of actual desktop screen real estate (Lack of black bars is important for your gaming experience)
low input lag
price

Notice how the features don't line up?

 

[Oled]

Again, don't talk shit. Seriously, you're calling everyone stupid for not sharing your preferences. That's childish. Stop twisting my words. If "what you believe in" is that everyone else is stupid if they don't have the same needs as you do, then no, I don't respect your opinion, because it's insulting, immature, and naive. If that kind of twaddle is what you're defending, then you are a disgrace to this community.


No, not "ok". First of all, I have NOT ONCE said that 16:10 isn't more expensive than 16:9, so stop talking shit. I know they cost more, but that doesn't mean they're not good value for money FOR SOME PEOPLE. Second of all, Stop saying that 1920x1200 is useless/overpriced/not-as-good-as-1920x1080. You admitted to be here to learn, so learn this: Outside of 1920x1200 doing exactly what 1920x1080 does, AND MORE, it's a matter of preference. What I'm sick and tired of is your irritating habit of dropping these insult bombs on everyone who doesn't agree with you. The extra 120 pixels make a difference TO OTHER PEOPLE, so stop saying that "it's worthless, period." That's wrong. You're wrong. It's worthless, TO YOU, perhaps, but that's a completely different matter. It's not worthless to me, and I can, indeed, use those extra pixels. I'm letting you have your cup of tea, so let me have my cup of tea without calling me "rich or stupid" for choosing a different kind of tea than you. Child...

What you say is: "1920x1080 is better, because the added 120 pixels aren't worth it."

What you SHOULD say is: "1920x1080 is better FOR ME, because the added 120 pixels aren't worth it, TO ME."

Do you understand the message I'm trying to communicate? Because all your other posts indicate that you don't. I don't care if you think people are either "rich or stupid" if they buy a 16:10 monitor - you can think that all you want - but stop saying it on the forums, because it's childish and insulting.

And no, I refuse to "get back on topic" before you stop this ridiculous "wanting to get the last word". If your opinion is that "1920x1200 is not worth it to me", then that's fine. If your opinion is that "1920x1200 is not worth it at all, and anyone who thinks otherwise is either rich or stupid", then gtfo. That's not the spirit of this community.

Edit: I suppose persistently trying to teach people objectivity isn't really the spirit of the community either. There should be an objectivity test to sign up :<

Calm down, mate.

There is no reason to get personal and insulting just because you don't like some peoples questions. If you don't like a subject of a thread simply post in the threads you are intrested in. I cant see the problem.

Please let's discuss the subject.

 

[Neb]

I believe the irritation stems from the repeated use of "stupid" and/or "rich" to refer to people that prefer 1920x1200, 16:10, or any monitor that isn't of their preference. That's a ridiculous stereotype and can definitely be seen as insulting.

I personally laugh it off, but it really does need to stop.

just because someone's needs and/or preferences do not align with yours does not mean it's okay to belittle or insult their choice. Just because I own monitors that are above the OP's price range, does that make me stupid or rich? I saved up for them and I did my research, so I don't see why those terms need to be thrown around.

Calm down, mate.

There is no reason to get personal and insulting just because you don't like some peoples questions. If you don't like a subject of a thread simply post in the threads you are intrested in. I cant see the problem.

Please let's discuss the subject.

The problem is the fact that the namecalling is happening during the discussion.

 

[suiken_2mieu]

Hmm I always heard Dell's monitors weren't fast enough and that you would see ghosting/blur during hardcore gaming...
are you saying you didn't notice this? If so this is indeed a monitor to consider.

I don't notice ghosting at all. I really enjoy these monitors and I know a lot of people still have there's because it is excellent. The only reason I would think to upgrade would be to get more inputs, but for pure PC usage I love it.

I mainly play competitive shooters (BFBC2 and UT2k4) and any sort of ghosting would piss me off.

 

[desh]

There's no point to keep debating what has allready been discussed and there's no point of you not to agree on the fact that 27" 1920x1200 is a lot more expensive then 27" 1920x1080 but the diffirence in performance barely differs so lets drop this ok.

Here is a 27" 1920x1200 monitor for $420:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM1493578801P

Edit: Nevermind. I decided to verify that it was 1920x1200, and it looks like it is actually 1920x1080 (per the manufacture website: http://www.viewsonic.com/products/desktop-monitors/lcd/graphic-series/vg2728wm.htm).

 

[Jonte]

...


I did not misunderstand you at all Jonte, I just mentioned this as an example because I notice most people always reflect upon the resolution to point out the size diffirence of the screen (16:9 Vs 16:10).
Maybe I should have been more specific to avoid confusion. Sorry about that.
.....

I'm not so sure about that.

Hmm I always heard Dell's monitors weren't fast enough and that you would see ghosting/blur during hardcore gaming...
are you saying you didn't notice this? If so this is indeed a monitor to consider.

Of course there are some people who are über-sensitive. They see ghosting/blurring on all LCDs and find it irritating. However, they are a tiny, tiny minority.


We've already established that you certainly aren't one of those.
In fact, you wrote that you were content with your four year old TN screen that didn't seem fast at all, even for it's time.
Page 2
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1600251&page=2

 

[GuyClinch]

Of course there are some people who are über-sensitive. They see ghosting/blurring on all LCDs and find it irritating. However, they are a tiny, tiny minority.

As a rule of thumb the RTC compensated IPS are about as fast as a few year old "5MS" TN. This is acceptable for most gamers. I have a 2ms TN - and I can see a slight improvment over the old 5ms TNs but its not huge. There is still some ghosting on both monitors but you get used to it..

Ghosting won't go away to OLED hits (if it ever does)..

This fact with the new lower priced IPS panels as well as the better viewing angles and colors makes IPS the new go to panel I think. This has changed from just a few years ago IMHO where TN was still dominating. The change is big enough so that Samsung has taken notice and started production of its own IPS knock off..

If I was buying a new panel today - IPS/PLS all the way..probably 16:9 too because the newer panels (that are often a bit faster with better contrast) are now 16:9. I think even the HP 30 inch is one cycle behind panel wise.

 

[SXTC]

Again, don't talk shit. Seriously, you're calling everyone stupid for not sharing your preferences. That's childish. Stop twisting my words. If "what you believe in" is that everyone else is stupid if they don't have the same needs as you do, then no, I don't respect your opinion, because it's insulting, immature, and naive. If that kind of twaddle is what you're defending, then you are a disgrace to this community.

From how you approach me after the last post I made, it is very obvious that you should be talking to the mirror.

What you SHOULD say is: "1920x1080 is better FOR ME, because the added 120 pixels aren't worth it, TO ME."

Do you understand the message I'm trying to communicate? Because all your other posts indicate that you don't.

I understand that somehow you feel I should be submissive and bow down to your will. If you were a dictator admin I would do so but since you are not I ask you to respect my opinion, and I would enjoy it if you did not try to take away my freedom of speech wich is what democrasy is all about. If you don't like me.. though luck, the world is full with people that you will not agree with but that doesn't mean you have to make them enemies.

I would just like to say, garbagemule has been AMAZINGLY respectful towards you SXTC, has been gracious, kind, and patient beyond belief.

I have no clue where you see respect since I was raised with respect and know that respect means not talking down upon one another, but instead treat eachother like ladies & gentlemen just as adults should.
If a person is almost unable to controll his feelings and insult slightly instead of heavily, it's still disrespect no matter how you see it. And I will forgive that in an instant if everyone stops behaving like this.
He makes it sound as if I have been very offensive towards him but I do not see why he keeps it up since when reading his posts towards me, I cannot possibly have sent him more disrespect then he just sent me.
If he was out for revenge then he should drop it once the same amount of blood has been spilled (figure of speech). You have to know your limits.
I do not want to fight him but every reply he makes towards me seem to be to call me immature, childish, etc.. and I don't even know what gives him the right to do so, and if sharing an alternate opinion is reason enough then I guess all of us are *ssh*les in his eyes.
But since this keeps up I will do as an adult should do, simply ignore it and stay on topic.
AND YES PEOPLE THERE "IS" A TOPIC!
Wich is about the unlikelyness that a good monitor excists and that is what we talk about, to find out wether this statement is true or not by sharing monitors and talking about what they can or cannot do.

Just because I own monitors that are above the OP's price range, does that make me stupid or rich? I saved up for them and I did my research, so I don't see why those terms need to be thrown around.

I'm sorry that you descided only to read a part of my reply in wich I stated that you'd have to be either rich, or someone who worked for it.
But in my situation where you are saving to get a house you aint in the situation to spend too much, I doubt I'd want to since I never put my wife behind and buying 2 Uber monitors would crash my bank XD
If that insults you then I am sorry, but in your case I'd be honored that someone is jaleous of you owning a good monitor while people like me still have a little one (not talking about my sausage!).

I don't notice ghosting at all. I really enjoy these monitors and I know a lot of people still have there's because it is excellent. The only reason I would think to upgrade would be to get more inputs, but for pure PC usage I love it.

I mainly play competitive shooters (BFBC2 and UT2k4) and any sort of ghosting would piss me off.

Then you and me are alike, who doesn't hate ghosting ^^
Thanks for your input, I will put this monitor between my top 5 of wich I'm about to choose within the next 3 months.

Of course there are some people who are über-sensitive. They see ghosting/blurring on all LCDs and find it irritating. However, they are a tiny, tiny minority.


We've already established that you certainly aren't one of those.
In fact, you wrote that you were content with your four year old TN screen that didn't seem fast at all, even for it's time.
Page 2
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1600251&page=2

I've always been a part of that tiny minority for some reason :/ Maybe that is why I'm good at sniper classes (even without a scope)
Yes I'm statisfied with my current monitor because the colors are well calibrated and lag minimal but that doesn't mean the lag doesn't annoy me at times ^^

So what, through all of these threads, have you learned? Have you narrowed down your search to the final 3?.

There are some monitors that are almost released and I want to see them first before making choices, because these monitors might combine the best for a good price.
Because right now there seems to be a big border of where "Crappy cheap fast (since you pay for crap.. I guess its expensive too) monitors" & "Expensive quality but slow monitors" but it seems as if some things have been changing since of late, as if the borders are comming a little closer... so I want to see wether this is true or not before making my choice.

 

[desh]

I understand that somehow you feel I should be submissive and bow down to your will. If you were a dictator admin I would do so but since you are not I ask you to respect my opinion, and I would enjoy it if you did not try to take away my freedom of speech wich is what democrasy is all about. If you don't like me.. though luck, the world is full with people that you will not agree with but that doesn't mean you have to make them enemies.

You seem to have a real issue with reading comprehension. No where does it say he doesn't understand your opinion. It's the fact that you seem to dismiss other people's opinion. When you say someone must either be "rich or stupid" to pay for a particular monitor, this is dismissing their opinion and it is insulting to boot. Additionally, when you say that there is "little or no benefit" to using a particular monitor, you are also dismissing people's opinions.

Is this really that hard of a concept to grasp?

 

[Oled]

You seem to have a real issue with reading comprehension. No where does it say he doesn't understand your opinion. It's the fact that you seem to dismiss other people's opinion. When you say someone must either be "rich or stupid" to pay for a particular monitor, this is dismissing their opinion and it is insulting to boot. Additionally, when you say that there is "little or no benefit" to using a particular monitor, you are also dismissing people's opinions.

garbageemule doesnt need to say that he doesnt respect other peoples opinion. It is obvious that he does not simply by reading his replies. It was when he entered the topic it went nasty.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1600251&page=6

 

[desh]

garbageemule doesnt need to say that he doesnt respect other peoples opinion. It is obvious that he does not simply by reading his replies. It was when he entered the topic it went nasty.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1600251&page=6

It seems to me that he was asking you to backup a statement you made as a fact with evidence. Is this something that is not done often on message boards?

 

[luluthemonk]

I have no clue where you see respect since I was raised with respect and know that respect means not talking down upon one another, but instead treat eachother like ladies & gentlemen just as adults should.

Because he tried to engage you in a reasonable discourse over and over again. Granted, he did use some amount of hyperbole, but who doesn't? While he has gotten frustrated over time and his hyperbole has increased, he is still attempting to give you a logical, rationale debate in which many other people would have simply quit, flamed you, and left (this is not called the [H]ard forum for nothing).

Anyways, back to the discussion and to go back to my personal monitor recommendation that I personally would still pick in your situation, is the HP ZR24W. 5ms response time, H2-IPS panel, DVI-D (HDCP), D-sub, DisplayPort, rotate to portrait, etc. Even if my workload was to switch to 60% gaming, 30% movies/tv, 10% web browsing/photo's/etc, I think I would still lean toward the ZR24W simply for the great panel, reasonable price, relatively low response time, various features, and of course, greater desktop real estate

 

[Oled]

Because he tried to engage you in a reasonable discourse over and over again. Granted, he did use some amount of hyperbole, but who doesn't? While he has gotten frustrated over time and his hyperbole has increased, he is still attempting to give you a logical, rationale debate in which many other people would have simply quit, flamed you, and left (this is not called the [H]ard forum for nothing).

Anyways, back to the discussion and to go back to my personal monitor recommendation that I personally would still pick in your situation, is the HP ZR24W. 5ms response time, H2-IPS panel, DVI-D (HDCP), D-sub, DisplayPort, rotate to portrait, etc. Even if my workload was to switch to 60% gaming, 30% movies/tv, 10% web browsing/photo's/etc, I think I would still lean toward the ZR24W simply for the great panel, reasonable price, relatively low response time, various features, and of course, greater desktop real estate

HP ZR24 is not good for gaming. It is a monitor for work only. It has the wrong aspect ratio for gaming, has bad contrast and blacks and is also to small. I would prefer a 27 inch TN over ZR24W every day of the week.

 

[garbagemule]

I understand that somehow you feel I should be submissive and bow down to your will. If you were a dictator admin I would do so but since you are not I ask you to respect my opinion, and I would enjoy it if you did not try to take away my freedom of speech wich is what democrasy is all about. If you don't like me.. though luck, the world is full with people that you will not agree with but that doesn't mean you have to make them enemies.

Listen, and listen well. Freedom of speech is a political human rights law and in no way does it mean "insult people who don't agree with you." It is a law that guarantees minorities a voice in political situations. Don't talk shit. Many people died for this human rights law; how dare you use it so mockingly? Shame on you.

My points are clear to everyone but you and Oled. As Neb said, my objection is solely to your stereotyping of people who don't share your preferences, and this ridiculous, pathetic drivel about "taking away your freedom of speech". I don't know how I could possibly explain myself any clearer than I did in my previous post, but as it turns out, everyone else seems to get it.

No one is out to get you, no one is trying to "silence" you. Stop acting like a victim, and stop talking shit. Read my posts again, and if you don't understand them, speak up instead of assuming all this ridiculous boulderdash.

garbageemule doesnt need to say that he doesnt respect other peoples opinion. It is obvious that he does not simply by reading his replies. It was when he entered the topic it went nasty.

Like desh says, I'm asking you to back up your preposterous statement with scientific fact. You did no such thing, which destroyed your credibility.

Please, people, would you stop acting like victims? It's not mine, albovin's or anyone else's fault that your precious aspect ratio isn't the perfect all-round solution for every single computer user in the world. Jesus Christ, guys, just respect other people's cup of tea. That's all we're asking. Your immature fanboyism and offensive stereotyping are in no way constructive :/

 

[Megalomaniac]

I understand that somehow you feel I should be submissive and bow down to your will. If you were a dictator admin I would do so but since you are not I ask you to respect my opinion, and I would enjoy it if you did not try to take away my freedom of speech wich is what democrasy is all about. If you don't like me.. though luck, the world is full with people that you will not agree with but that doesn't mean you have to make them enemies.

And yet you still did not grasp a simple concept. what works for you and your budget, will not necessarily work for others. Same for screen diameters or ratios. Admit to that please and maybe this animosity will go away. He said it, I said it, Ned said it and others have said it. Please take a hint, but it is as if you can not do so, again, I have to refer to Nebs post #291, take a hint from it. You might want to also consider albovin's post #292 for a hint or two. And see how elegantly luluthemonk explains to you the difference in his post #299?

I have no clue where you see respect since I was raised with respect and know that respect means not talking down upon one another, but instead treat eachother like ladies & gentlemen just as adults should.

We call this, condescending talk. While garbageemule did go a bit over, it is not without reason. You know those polite people who just refuse to listen. Yes, it's polite and civil, but it is still frustrating and you are belittling him and us, if you do not see that, then maybe you missed some of the courses in manners on when not be condescending. Again, see my explanation above on how you are being condescending and Nebs post #291

He makes it sound as if I have been very offensive towards him but I do not see why he keeps it up since when reading his posts towards me, I cannot possibly have sent him more disrespect then he just sent me.

Maybe apologies? Just a thought, im not saying you are wrong, i am most definitely NOT saying you are right, but if you are so properly educated in manners, then maybe you should be the first to apologies? (see, now i'm the one being condescending, but I am right )

I'm sorry that you descided only to read a part of my reply in wich I stated that you'd have to be either rich, or someone who worked for it.

Now again, you are insulting Ned, by suggesting that he did not read your entire post. We don't care about your financial situation also. Neb clearly has a budget bigger then pretty much all of us here, but most of all don't care about it and don't explain our financial woahs like you do, which is also insulting. We do, however, politely thank him for being a good source of info on these.

But in my situation where you are saving to get a house you aint in the situation to spend too much, I doubt I'd want to since I never put my wife behind and buying 2 Uber monitors would crash my bank XD
If that insults you then I am sorry,

Yes this is insulting, this is not cry about your finances situation. Just simply say:"I can not afford that" and be done with it. That would be the polite and proper thing to do. Again, do you want to explain to us how you were raised with proper manners?

There are some monitors that are almost released and I want to see them first before making choices, because these monitors might combine the best for a good price.

This is like planing for a car in 2012, your budget might change or you preference might change. Monitors don't change that much, but if you will wait three months, then I would suggest to simply read up and ask simple small questions on the users (like Neb) personal experience with a particular monitor.

 

[Walker]

HP ZR24 is not good for gaming. It is a monitor for work only.

Strange how I play games on it just fine, must be something wrong with me

I wouldn't recommend it to the OP either, but for different reasons than those.

 

[Megalomaniac]

Strange how I play games on it just fine, must be something wrong with me

Must be.......
I bet you saw black lines too you might be experiencing post black lines shock, maybe go see a doctor about it.

 

[Megalomaniac]

Please, people, would you stop acting like victims? It's not mine, albovin's or anyone else's fault that your precious aspect ratio isn't the perfect all-round solution for every single computer user in the world. Jesus Christ, guys, just respect other people's cup of tea. That's all we're asking. Your immature fanboyism and offensive stereotyping are in no way constructive :/

I think that he thinks that a 16:9 is a cure for cancer or something.... maybe Aids, i don't know.

 

[garbagemule]

I guess I'm just hoping the fanboyism (which doesn't belong in constructive and objective [H]ard|Forum) can be sort exorcised. I can go to any other hardware forum if I want to read fanboy twaddle, and I can upload a video to YouTube if I want to get insulted. I come here for the facts, scientific data, objectivity, mutual respect and friendly tone of voice. If someone buys 6 monitors just to play EVE with a 180° FOV, that's amazing. I wouldn't spend my own money like that, but I have great respect for people who save up the money to realize an incredible project like that.

Likewise do I respect my fellow cheapskates for finding the cheapest "best bang for the buck", but the snide remarks and insulting stereotyping have no place here.

 

[luluthemonk]

HP ZR24 is not good for gaming. It is a monitor for work only. It has the wrong aspect ratio for gaming, has bad contrast and blacks and is also to small. I would prefer a 27 inch TN over ZR24W every day of the week.

Poor contrast and black's compared to other IPS panel's, or compared to TN panel's? As far as I am aware, IPS panel's contrast > TN panels as noted here. (See what I did there?)

While I will agree that that the ZR24 is probably not for the hardcore gamer, I think the other attributes give it enough in the positive column then to outweigh the negatives. Such is my opinion, and is what I will probably buy.

ZR24W
Better colors
Better Viewing angle
Better contrast
Panel Uniformity

TN:
Responsiveness and input lag
120hz options
Less ghosting
Cheaper/Larger
Better blacks (although some would say they suffer from black crush more than an IPS panel)

and just because
Personal Preference:
1920x1200 vs 1920x1080
Inputs
Stand/bezel

For my current viewing distance, I don't think I would value a 27" 1920x1080 monitor over a 24" 1929x1200, however, that is certainly my own very subjective opinion of what I think is more important. Maybe of relevance, my wife has a 27" 2560x1600 which may be a large reason why I am so dismissive of the 27" 1920x1080 at our viewing distances. If the monitor was an arm and a half or more length away (3-4 feet?), I think I would start to consider a 27" 1920x1080 more seriously.

**edit**
In hopes of being more clear, going to break this down point by point.

HP ZR24 is not good for gaming. It is a monitor for work only

I think it is good enough for gaming, given the other advantages the monitor has. (colors, viewing angles, resolution). I think for movies and TV, it again has the advantage with better color and viewing angles. Black bars become a factor, but my personal opinion again says the benefits outweigh having the black bars. Your mileage may vary. TN panel will have the advantage with lower response times, and therefore less ghosting artifacts and potentially lower input lag as well.

It has the wrong aspect ratio for gaming,

For the majority of games that I play, that is a moot point. Again, I believe that the advantages of the IPS panel outweigh FOV/black bar advantages that the TN panel may have. My personal opinion and what I value, although I am sharing so that the OP may know what other people think on this issue.

has bad contrast

Provided a link above that I believe refutes this claim

and blacks

Pro's and Con's both here from what I have read. TN panels have the better blacks, but also suffer from black crush more readily.

and is also to small.

I think here, viewing distance becomes a very important factor. Would be interested to know how far away the monitor will be for the OPs setup. Personally, in the 2-3 feet range, I would say the 24" 16:10 has a distinct advantage, at 3 feet I would say coin toss, and 3+ the 27" becomes a more viable option. This is all dependent on each individual viewers preferences. I just happen to have a setup where my monitor sits about 2 1/2 feet (I am approximating from memory), although I would be interested in actually measuring the distance later.

 

[NCX]

All the non e-IPS IPS panels have medicore contrast/blacks except the high end (1000$+ 24") models.

IPS does not mean better unifmormity, this is a myth. Tell that to all the people who bought U2410/ZR24W'/LP2475/U2311Hs who got units with half the screen tinted yellow and the other half pink and backlight bleeding.

The only gaurenteed + of an IPS panel are the viewing angles and image stability. Color presets, quality control and default color accuracy are not gaurenteed to better except on high end panels.

In games/movies TN gamma shift is not visible. TN's don't have black crush unless they are purposefully set to have a high gamma value (2.4 vs calibration standard of 2.2), but this can happen with any panel type and generally doesn't seem to happen any more.

If anything (look at reivews) most monitors come with the gamma value set to low, resulting in a washed out picture.

 

[garbagemule]

I love how 16:10 has now been demoted from being "not as good as 16:9" to being "the wrong aspect ratio for gaming". I seriously can't tell if Oled is a troll