Now that is comedy
And for the record; Godofdestrcution (btw what is destrcution) anyways your argument has nothing to do with anything. Nobody made up any rules or contracts or things on the fly....what are you even talking about??
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Not using official Sony components? Your warrantee is void
- Thread starter jebo_4jc
- Start date
Now that is comedy
And for the record; Godofdestrcution (btw what is destrcution) anyways your argument has nothing to do with anything. Nobody made up any rules or contracts or things on the fly....what are you even talking about??
solideliquid
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2005
- Messages
- 449
Xbox 360: The power supply light is red
View products that this article applies to.
Article ID : 906101
Last Review : December 7, 2006
Revision : 3.3
SYMPTOMS
The Xbox 360 power supply light is red.
Back to the top
CAUSE
A fault has been detected in the external power supply.
Back to the top
THINGS TO TRY
1. Check to make sure that the power cord is plugged directly into a known good wall outlet, and not plugged into an extension cord, surge protector, or power strip.
2. Try the power supply in a different wall outlet, ideally in another part of the house. To do this, follow these steps:a. Turn off the console.
b. Disconnect the cord that connects the power supply to the console.
c. Unplug the power cord from the wall socket.
d. Disconnect the power cord from the power supply.
3. Allow the power supply to cool for several hours. The red light may indicate that the power supply has overheated. The power supply should turn back on after it cools. Make sure that the power supply has sufficient ventilation during cooling. Do not try to turn on the console while the power supply is cooling.
4. If the light on the power supply remains red after you follow these troubleshooting steps, the power supply needs service.
Back to the top
MORE INFORMATION
The power supply has several built-in safeguards to help prevent damage to either the console or to the power supply itself. The power supply can turn itself off in conditions of too much current, too-high voltage, or too-high temperature. Under these conditions, the light on the power supply will turn from green to orange or to red, or the light will turn off. When the power supply light is green, the power supply is functioning correctly. Follow these safeguards to help the power supply work: Do not block any ventilation openings in the power supply.
Do not put the power supply on a bed, on a sofa, or on any other soft surface that may block ventilation openings.
Do not put the power supply in a confined space, such as a bookcase, a rack, or a stereo cabinet, unless the space is well ventilated.
Do not put the power supply on a stereo speaker, an amplifier, or a heat source such as a radiator or a heat register.
Plug the power supply directly into a known good wall outlet. Do not use extension cords or power strips.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/906101/
View products that this article applies to.
Article ID : 906101
Last Review : December 7, 2006
Revision : 3.3
SYMPTOMS
The Xbox 360 power supply light is red.
Back to the top
CAUSE
A fault has been detected in the external power supply.
Back to the top
THINGS TO TRY
1. Check to make sure that the power cord is plugged directly into a known good wall outlet, and not plugged into an extension cord, surge protector, or power strip.
2. Try the power supply in a different wall outlet, ideally in another part of the house. To do this, follow these steps:a. Turn off the console.
b. Disconnect the cord that connects the power supply to the console.
c. Unplug the power cord from the wall socket.
d. Disconnect the power cord from the power supply.
3. Allow the power supply to cool for several hours. The red light may indicate that the power supply has overheated. The power supply should turn back on after it cools. Make sure that the power supply has sufficient ventilation during cooling. Do not try to turn on the console while the power supply is cooling.
4. If the light on the power supply remains red after you follow these troubleshooting steps, the power supply needs service.
Back to the top
MORE INFORMATION
The power supply has several built-in safeguards to help prevent damage to either the console or to the power supply itself. The power supply can turn itself off in conditions of too much current, too-high voltage, or too-high temperature. Under these conditions, the light on the power supply will turn from green to orange or to red, or the light will turn off. When the power supply light is green, the power supply is functioning correctly. Follow these safeguards to help the power supply work: Do not block any ventilation openings in the power supply.
Do not put the power supply on a bed, on a sofa, or on any other soft surface that may block ventilation openings.
Do not put the power supply in a confined space, such as a bookcase, a rack, or a stereo cabinet, unless the space is well ventilated.
Do not put the power supply on a stereo speaker, an amplifier, or a heat source such as a radiator or a heat register.
Plug the power supply directly into a known good wall outlet. Do not use extension cords or power strips.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/906101/
It seems that everyone is on a tangent about the legality of the warrenty clauses, when this particular topic could easily be solved if the person in question (quoted by OP) could verify if he did or did not have a LICENSED 3rd party cable.
If he did, then he would have a lot of sway with Sony or the 3rd party manufacturer in getting them to own up. I.E. "your product is licensed by sony but killed the system" OR "This product is licensed by you to meet the specifications but it killed the system"
If it was a not-licensed-by-sony product then he's out of luck.
If he did, then he would have a lot of sway with Sony or the 3rd party manufacturer in getting them to own up. I.E. "your product is licensed by sony but killed the system" OR "This product is licensed by you to meet the specifications but it killed the system"
If it was a not-licensed-by-sony product then he's out of luck.
Reading legal theories on the internet makes my brain hurt. One could possibly pursue an antitrust suit if the big 3 refuse to allow any other companies to make peripherals for their systems. I doubt that would be successful since there are third party peripherals that are licensed. Antitrust is not really my area of expertise though, so I won't pretend to know whether there is any chance of a real suit.
Deez is spot on regarding article 2 of the UCC as well. There have been many cases about terms of use and the general consensus is that if you don't like the terms once you have had a chance to read them, you can return the item. You can't simply choose not to follow them.
My advice: Lie through your teeth and tell them that you use nothing but the best Sony/MS/Nintendo first-party products.
One could possibly pursue an antitrust suit if the big 3 refuse to allow any other companies to make peripherals for their systems. I doubt that would be successful since there are third party peripherals that are licensed. Antitrust is not really my area of expertise though, so I won't pretend to know whether there is any chance of a real suit.Deez is spot on regarding article 2 of the UCC as well. There have been many cases about terms of use and the general consensus is that if you don't like the terms once you have had a chance to read them, you can return the item. You can't simply choose not to follow them.
My advice: Lie through your teeth and tell them that you use nothing but the best Sony/MS/Nintendo first-party products.
Who says my name is deeznuts in real life?
I've had this online name since 1994 in high school when I first used the internet, was signing up with a buddy and I asked what should I sign up as, he said "deeznuts" so I did. Heh, stuck with it ever since. You have heard of the Chronic, I assume. Anyways ...I said I was a lawyer, not a Sales lawyer. I'm a securities lawyer. Why the hell would I care or know about a warranty act? Ask a sales/goods lawyer if he knows about the IA act of 1940 ('40 act), the IC act of 1940, the '33 act, or the '34 act. In fact, ask any non-securities lawyer if they are familiar with those acts. I doubt it. Tell me what the next lawyer you meet thinks about his/her preference of Rule 482 or Rule 24b-2 for mutual fund advertising? See my point?
Please explain what "too much add" means? My point for not reading the whole damn thing was because I assumed you were going to point out the fact that the act doesn't allow for "on the fly" changes. Duh, I know that, you know that, we all know that. But what exactly does that have to do with anything here? Nothing, so I wasn't going to bother reading it. I spared my time while you wasted yours. Thanks!
I think the only person pretending here is you. Companies can't make up shit on the fly. whoopty doo. Has anyone argued that they could? No? Then why do you keep bringing it up? I could have told you that without looking up. Nobody has made up anything on the fly. Did you not see the link and quote to the warranty language?
What, doesn't everyone use the composite cable that Sony includes with the PS3? I know I do
True that they would have it in writing to save their behinds if something does come up and they get sued, but did MS not replace their red rings of deaths? Or did Nintendo not send customers new consoles with a box for the defects? And how about the free straps that you can get 4 of even if you don't have them?
This is plain suck ass customer service in Sony's part and I can't see it being good for their already blemished image. They should just man up and replace the defective units.
What, doesn't everyone use the composite cable that Sony includes with the PS3? I know I do
I bet the morons at the customer service center wouldn't even get the irony of such a statement.
P.S. My comment is not directed at Sony in particular, but rather people at call centers in general. As someone who worked as an AT&T Customer Service rep when in college, I can tell you first hand that call center reps are morons across the board...and I do not exclude myself from this statement.
Well first of all, this is one isolated occasion. There are no reports of Sony widely not replacing their units. When in fact their aren't really wide reports of peoples PS3's dying period.
And those 2 other occasions were directly the fault of Microsoft and Nintendo. Not that I am defending Sony for turning him away....but he gave them that option. In Microsoft and Nintendos case they had to replace those items because in those occasions the warranty actually covered the people. Not so much the Wii, that was mostly dumb people. But Nintendo man'd up, and that was awesome!!
Now, do I think Sony should replace the guys system? Fuck ya...that sucks. I was just saying that you can't cry when they warned you about it.
Spaceman_Spiff
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2003
- Messages
- 1,636
It would be very easy for a company to manufacture a cable or controller that fries the part of the system it connects to, either deliberatly or by mistake. This is increasingly true as the market itself gets bigger and components are more standardized. If you put aftermarket parts in your car and they completely wreck it is it the car manufacturer's fault, or the one that made the product?
Its a safety clause in the warranty, and in no way implies that sony thinks its console will immediately die if you plug in a perfectly normal controller to it.
Its a safety clause in the warranty, and in no way implies that sony thinks its console will immediately die if you plug in a perfectly normal controller to it.
I bet the morons at the customer service center wouldn't even get the irony of such a statement.
What I don't get is why doesn't everyone just go ahead and say that, there's nothing they can do to you at that point. They can't prove you didn't use their composite cable. And they can't say they didn't supply it. And of course they can't say the supplied CC is not Sony licensed. Problem solved.
and kksteve, regarding your last statement, I think Sony is going a bit far, but they are justified. Think about the original person's complaint, there is no output from the port he plugged in a "non-licensed" product. Ok, ring of death I have heard about it, has nothing to do with the display output, right? If my unit is determined to be overheating, what the hell does the cable I plug into an output have to do with it. If it won't turn on, what does the cable have to do with it, etc. With Nintendo, the defect was their own product, no?
In this case, the guy is having problems with the output from his PS3, which could be caused directly from using a bad plug. How does Sony know he didn't use a poorly made cable using Sony's proprietary plug which caused a short or something (I'm no electrical expert)? My buddy had the worst luck with PS3's, he bought a japanese one from someone who imported it and it didn't work. Gave it back, grabbed a PS3 from one of my other friends who got in on a batch that I got one with (he was going to give it as a present) it didn't work as well. It turned on, no video. They asked him what did he use as output, an HDMI wire. They sent him a new one no questions asked.
The Magnuson-Moss Act specifically prohibits companies from tie-in sales provisions.
In other words, the action described in the title of this thread (that your warranty is invalidated because you used a non-Sony part) is, as I stated on the first page of this thread, specifically illegal.
Again, the manufacturer cannot invalidate the warranty on the basis of other brands of peripherals being used.
http://www.edgetechcorp.com/company/magnuson-moss-act.asp
"Manufacturers cannot require consumers to purchase items or services in order to keep their warranty valid. In other words, you cannot be required to add the system manufacturer's memory to maintain the warranty on the system. Also, the system manufacturer cannot state that the system warranty is void if other "brands" of peripherals are used."
http://reviews.hspn.com/articles/92/1/Will-Installing-It-Void-My-Warranty/Page1.html
"Legally, a vehicle manufacturer cannot void the warranty on a vehicle due to an aftermarket part unless they can prove that the aftermarket part caused or contributed to the failure in the vehicle (per the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))."
Here's the relevant text of the law itself:
"(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name"
In other words, the manufacturer can require certain parts or services, but cannot require that they be performed or manufactured by anyone in particular.
Imagine if Ford told you that your new car's warranty was invalid because you used Duralast brake pads. "No, sir, sorry you blew a rod at 4,500 miles on your brand new car. Warranty? No, you screwed that up. We saw some TripleEdge wipers there. We'll be glad to replace the engine for $7500."
In other words, the action described in the title of this thread (that your warranty is invalidated because you used a non-Sony part) is, as I stated on the first page of this thread, specifically illegal.
Again, the manufacturer cannot invalidate the warranty on the basis of other brands of peripherals being used.
http://www.edgetechcorp.com/company/magnuson-moss-act.asp
"Manufacturers cannot require consumers to purchase items or services in order to keep their warranty valid. In other words, you cannot be required to add the system manufacturer's memory to maintain the warranty on the system. Also, the system manufacturer cannot state that the system warranty is void if other "brands" of peripherals are used."
http://reviews.hspn.com/articles/92/1/Will-Installing-It-Void-My-Warranty/Page1.html
"Legally, a vehicle manufacturer cannot void the warranty on a vehicle due to an aftermarket part unless they can prove that the aftermarket part caused or contributed to the failure in the vehicle (per the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))."
Here's the relevant text of the law itself:
"(c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name"
In other words, the manufacturer can require certain parts or services, but cannot require that they be performed or manufactured by anyone in particular.
Imagine if Ford told you that your new car's warranty was invalid because you used Duralast brake pads. "No, sir, sorry you blew a rod at 4,500 miles on your brand new car. Warranty? No, you screwed that up. We saw some TripleEdge wipers there. We'll be glad to replace the engine for $7500."
That's not what Sony is saying though, bad analogy. If you want to stay with a car analogy, it's like someone buying a 3rd party wiper, used the wiper and the wiper scratched the shit out of the car windshield. Would you go to Ford and say, "Replace my windshield?" No. That's what's happening here.
Or if you buy 3rd party taiwan brakes and your brakes didn't stop in time. If the proximate cause of the damage/injury were 3rd party brakes, why should the car manufacturer be at fault?
And looking at those links, what Sony does apparently is not wrong. To more fully quote your first link:
Notice they say you cannot require a certain brand. Sony/Nintendo/MS doesn't do that. They say you can't use unlicensed stuff, but they can be any of the licensed 3rd parties. It's a loophole it appears.
No, they're not saying that at all. The third party cables did not fail to perform and their use did not cause the PS3 not to boot up.
You cannot require licensed products any more than you can require a specific brand. The license is covered by "brand, trade, or corporate name." Putting the Sony PS3 logo on a Mad Catz cable is branding it.
Here's more of the text of the law:
"The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance)."
The law clearly states (and is universally understood to state) that a manufacturer cannot void a warranty based on the brand of the parts or accessories with which it is used unless those parts clearly cause the malfunction.
To quote the original guy, "So now my system boots up and sits there with a blank screen."
Have any proof, case law, etc. to back this statement up? I'm not saying you are wrong, you may well be right, but I have to see this for myself.
Spaceman_Spiff
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2003
- Messages
- 1,636
You don't definitively know for sure that the cables didn't break the system. Its very possible that a faulty or poorly designed cable, used properly or improperly, could fry the port on the system.
As far as tie-in products go, the box for the system contains all that a person would need to use the system. A person could plug everything in and use it without ever attaching a third party product, so in no way are you forced into buying something. Furthermore, the box clearly states what it contains, and there's plenty of viable first and third party devices available that do not invalidate warranty.
I'm not arguing that third party devices commonly destroy systems, or that you shouldn't ever use them- but you clearly overestimate the intelligence of society if you think people won't misuse, misunderstand, and abuse products. Furthermore, third party manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to release shoddy, possibly dangerous (if we're talking power cables and such) products just because they're protected by another manufacturer's warranty.