SixtyWattMan
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You'll probably see some performance gains but I wouldn't expect anything significant since it's just a hardware refresh.
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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 580 Video Card Review @ [H]
- Thread starter FrgMstr
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You'll probably see some performance gains but I wouldn't expect anything significant since it's just a hardware refresh.
SixFootDuo
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Brent, yes, if you could please, some tests with the 580 vs. the 460 SLI setup many of us have.
We are all curious. In fact. this review would appeal to a very wide range of people both on and off Hardocp.
Thanks, /signed HardOCP community
We are all curious. In fact. this review would appeal to a very wide range of people both on and off Hardocp.
Thanks, /signed HardOCP community
I think fiasco overstates the 480 situation. They did what they wanted to do, which was put out the fastest single card - yes it was hotter and louder than they would have desired, but it wasn't a replay of the FX5900 by any stretch.
no that is NOT what they wanted to do...it is what they felt they had to do to compete with the 5870...if it was really up to Nvidia they would not have released the 480 in its present form...they would have waited to release it as it is today (GTX 580)...but because of the delays and perception Nvidia rushed out an unfinished, un-polished product
harlock328
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I was tempted to upgrade to it but doesn't have displayport/mini-displayport.. Won't work for me...Why didn't nVidia include it?
It was all stated right in my post, if you read thoroughly.
- Someone expressed a concern about the card down-clocking/throttling down during gaming if pushed, due to the hardware "limiter"/monitoring built-in when the card is under high stress.
So, that's the issue.
- It was pretty much proven to not be a concern, by the torture test that Brent put it through. Brent pushed the card to "limits that were even unplayable", as he states, and still the card did not down-clock.
Simple. If there's concern about the card throttling down due to the built-it monitoring for "stress", such as with running benchmark tests (as quoted on that other site), I think it's been proven that it's not something we're going to have to worry about in a normal gaming scenario, if Brent pushed it to insane limits and it still didn't throttle down.
That's good news to hear, to say the least, as I could see how people might be concerned about that happening, myself included.
So, as long as no one reports noticing a drop in performance due to that built-in monitoring, then all is good, and I don't think we're likely to ever see that being a problem if it's simply to protect against hitting above 97C/thermal and/or power reasons.
If that other site wants to complain about something that's not even going to be a real world/every day issue, simply because they feel they're "being limited" in their options by a safety measure that's there, but unlikely will ever kick-in/be needed, well... that's just ridiculous.
They're making a huge issue out of the card possibly clocking-down under ridiculous stress tests that have no bearing on normal high-end gaming scenarios. Brent already pushed it to insane levels, and it did not clock-down. So why they're taking such issue with nVidia regarding this is just ridiculous. No one is being "limited" in stress-testing this GPU in any way, as was proven in [H]'s review.
It's just human nature to complain, even about something "just being there", whether it's legitimate/has even effected them or not, and has no bearing on normal gaming scenarios. That could then cause consumers unnecessary concern, especially with something that already was a concern and/or not fully understood.
We're never likely do anything with the 580 that ever pushes it to throttle down, unless you're running it with the fan on low while doing heavy gaming and/or benchmarking, in which case the card would simply burst into flames anyway, heh.
P.S.
I know that site was referring to OC'ing, but still... for most people, that's not going to be a concern. I think most people would just want to make sure there would be no issues with normal high-end gaming scenarios, which was proven through Brent's testing.
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eviltypeguy
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Great review as usual. Thanks!
Has NVIDIA stated how well the supply is? Basically when the 6970 launches and it ends up being slower will we be screwed if you decide to purchase a 580 GTX then? I'm just hoping that this isn't a one day deal and then you're screwed unless you want to get jacked on eBay....
CounTDookU23
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I got this for $499.00 + 5% VA Tax at Nutley Street Microcenter in VA.
Will install this puppy when I get home tonight. Bday Xmas present for myself. Woot.
Will install this puppy when I get home tonight. Bday Xmas present for myself. Woot.
SixFootDuo
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Yeah, the 6970 will not be slower. That would make zero sense.
We are talking a true next gen card vs what the 480 was supposed to be ... A YEAR AGO ...
Ain't happenin
People are just totally forgetting that Nvidia is a generation behind. Not my words. Those words came directly from all the reviewers / tech web sites after the 480 launched crippled. And maybe not even a generation behind but something like that.
Don't get me wrong, I love my SLI'd 460's @ 850 / 2200, 2 gigs
We are talking a true next gen card vs what the 480 was supposed to be ... A YEAR AGO ...
Ain't happenin
People are just totally forgetting that Nvidia is a generation behind. Not my words. Those words came directly from all the reviewers / tech web sites after the 480 launched crippled. And maybe not even a generation behind but something like that.
Don't get me wrong, I love my SLI'd 460's @ 850 / 2200, 2 gigs
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Zarathustra[H]
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Because this is a demo board sent to reviewers. Nvidias reference boartds are never sold to the end user (except for the over-priced one time experiment GTX460's at Best Buy)
Just as with the other Nvidia boards its up to each board partner to integrate the connectors they see fit.
This one does have a mini HDMI port:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125349
Lord_Exodia
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Answers to some questions
The 580 will not clock down in gameplay even if overclocked and over volted. It only happens in 3d Mark, OCCT and applications that really make the +12v rails on the card overstress itself. This will not affect my plans to watercool my next cards, this may be 3 of these or 3 Cayman 6970s time will tell
For those quoting the Guru 3d review regarding cooling, i believe it was meeho or another poster. The guru 3d review is not the review to reference as they admit their GTX 580 was an early sample and does not have the new bios. They suggest you anticipate better cooling than their numbers show.
"Now we really need to mention that the board used for this article (engineering sample) had an older BIOS and that power consumption on this board might be a tad higher as a result of it. "
I'll add that the noise and temps may also be affected because of it.
Throughout the several reviews I read beginning to end I have seen that;
the GTX 580 has the same sound in db as a 6870 at full load but with smoother transitions between the different speed cycles.
the GTX 580 performs within 5-7% from the 5970 which is a dual gpu card. In some instances it actually beats the 5970 even when crossfire is working. There are other instances where crossfire isn't working and it rips it a new asshole.
GTX 580 is anywhere from 15-24% faster than GTX 480 in real world gaming. However shockingly only 10-18% faster than GTX 480 in synthetic benchmarks. Not sure what is going on there.
The other thing I wanted to say is that I dont believe a single GPU card even a high end release should be compared with a dual GPU extreme high end card, even if it's a last gen card. Nvidia does not intend to beat a 5970 with a GTX 580, although it does come close. Even cayman 6970 will be just below 5970 and AMD themselves have confirmed it in their own charts where it shows a 6970 just below 5970 and Antilles just above it.
This is never something sites should start doing IMO because it never puts the new hardware in perspective as to how the GPU technology has advanced. How fair would it have been if HardOCP would have put the 5870 against the GTX 295 at its launch. They didn't, they actually compared it to the 285 and 4890.
Granted AMD lowered its price of the 5970 to $499 msrp and it can be found a little cheaper with rebate etc.. It's still a dual gpu card. Should we compare Cayman to the Zotac Dual GTX 460 if it's available at that time. Why not go for all scenarios around $600 then and compare 5970, GTX 470 SLi, 6870 Crossfire X and GTX 580 together.
The newest single GPU should only have to beat the other most powerful single GPU, this is the way things are. IMO I think it's great Brent is adding a 5970 to a comparison but I dont see what that will prove, other than how well the GTX 580 is doing as the new top dog single GPU if it will trade blows with a dual GPU single card.
The 580 will not clock down in gameplay even if overclocked and over volted. It only happens in 3d Mark, OCCT and applications that really make the +12v rails on the card overstress itself. This will not affect my plans to watercool my next cards, this may be 3 of these or 3 Cayman 6970s time will tell
For those quoting the Guru 3d review regarding cooling, i believe it was meeho or another poster. The guru 3d review is not the review to reference as they admit their GTX 580 was an early sample and does not have the new bios. They suggest you anticipate better cooling than their numbers show.
"Now we really need to mention that the board used for this article (engineering sample) had an older BIOS and that power consumption on this board might be a tad higher as a result of it. "
I'll add that the noise and temps may also be affected because of it.
Throughout the several reviews I read beginning to end I have seen that;
the GTX 580 has the same sound in db as a 6870 at full load but with smoother transitions between the different speed cycles.
the GTX 580 performs within 5-7% from the 5970 which is a dual gpu card. In some instances it actually beats the 5970 even when crossfire is working. There are other instances where crossfire isn't working and it rips it a new asshole.
GTX 580 is anywhere from 15-24% faster than GTX 480 in real world gaming. However shockingly only 10-18% faster than GTX 480 in synthetic benchmarks. Not sure what is going on there.
The other thing I wanted to say is that I dont believe a single GPU card even a high end release should be compared with a dual GPU extreme high end card, even if it's a last gen card. Nvidia does not intend to beat a 5970 with a GTX 580, although it does come close. Even cayman 6970 will be just below 5970 and AMD themselves have confirmed it in their own charts where it shows a 6970 just below 5970 and Antilles just above it.
This is never something sites should start doing IMO because it never puts the new hardware in perspective as to how the GPU technology has advanced. How fair would it have been if HardOCP would have put the 5870 against the GTX 295 at its launch. They didn't, they actually compared it to the 285 and 4890.
Granted AMD lowered its price of the 5970 to $499 msrp and it can be found a little cheaper with rebate etc.. It's still a dual gpu card. Should we compare Cayman to the Zotac Dual GTX 460 if it's available at that time. Why not go for all scenarios around $600 then and compare 5970, GTX 470 SLi, 6870 Crossfire X and GTX 580 together.
The newest single GPU should only have to beat the other most powerful single GPU, this is the way things are. IMO I think it's great Brent is adding a 5970 to a comparison but I dont see what that will prove, other than how well the GTX 580 is doing as the new top dog single GPU if it will trade blows with a dual GPU single card.
heatlesssun
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Lord_Exodia
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I like what i see so far from Cayman. Morphological Antialiasing looks like it could be big especially on Cayman or Cayman Crossfire X especially in surround. That stuff looks juicy. However I want to be clear on something. AMD's own charts put the 6970 just below 5970, the GTX 580 is just under 5970 in real world testing based on several of the reviews I read today. Expect them to trade blows and be real close in performance. I expect 6970 to be slightly faster because it's coming out after so they have an advantage and know what to beat. I think feature set will be critical moving forward not just GPU muscle.
Lord_Exodia
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That's Furmark not a game.Furmark, occt, and 3d Mark Vantage. Just so everyone is clear I have read 11 reviews, yes 11!!
Not 1 of those reviews showed any performance lost in a actual game from this technology.
I think the 6970 might be equal and cheaper (maybe $400-450). That's all AMD needs to do.
I thought you meant it that way, but your quote shows you correcting what Guru3D had written.
Have you actually read the quote from Guru3D? Maybe you're referring to some other site, but your previous post quotes Guru3D.
That has nothing to do with throttling, which is a driver "issue".
You compare cards in the same price segment. If you personally don't like CF/SLI, that's ok (I don't), but it doesn't change the fact that those cards are competing.
Yes, we should.
It is being done because it shows you how much value you get for money. Single and dual card CF/SLI are different things though.
No, it should beat the other card in its price range. AMD's strategy has not been to develop a huge high end chip for top performance. That very fact, in fact (
), is what made 4xxx and 5xxx so successful and what made Fermi fail big time. Your preference, on the other hand, can be single GPU cars only (as is mine), but then you choose whose card's numbers you'll be looking at.
Zarathustra[H]
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Any word on how many amps this thing needs on the 12V rail yet?
MrLonghair
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About time we got the Fermi we were promised a year ago.
lostinseganet
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I love that benchmark...
Yakk
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Yup, I think so too.
From their financial statements, AMD should probably aim for slightly better, or equal performance. This would mean no price war for anybody because neither company wants one for different reasons. Nvidia must have sky high manufacturing costs, and AMD probably have much lower production costs, but just need to make money, and this would be a great way to do it.
Y.
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Flyinfinni
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Zarathustra[H];1036407483 said:
probably still the same as a 480.
Lord_Exodia
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Throttling is not happening in any Games, link one GAME
GTX 295 was in the same price segment as 5870 when it launched, if not very close, they weren't compared back then. People would have said hey not fair it's a dual GPU card.
I'll answer both by saying, no we shouldn't as it doesn't prove anything bad against 580 or 6970, but I guess it'll be good to know for informational purposes.
No, it should beat the other card in its price range. AMD's strategy has not been to develop a huge high end chip for top performance. That very fact, in fact (
I disagree completely, the new high end Single GPU card, being a refresh in these cases GTX 580/6970 should only have to beat the highest end single gpu card before it. Only on completely new generations should the new Single GPU beat all older cards. E.G. Kepler should beat even Antilles.
It's nice to see how the card compares to others in its price range, but I agree that people shouldn't be knocking the 580 because it can't beat the 5970 - although AMD dropping the price to be the same does open up those comparisons.
Please.....Don't start acting like Prime 1. LOL.
I know that, have known from the beginning and have never said otherwise.
Weren't compared here or anywhere?
That is your arbitrary order of things. 5870 was never made to compete with Fermi. They knew it wouldn't from the beginning. It was Nvidia's failure to deliver that put it in the position to actually compete with 480 and successfully at that. If AMD wanted to compete for the fastest single GPU card, they wouldn't have the strategy they have now and would've made a huge monolith chip like Nvidia. They chose not to, concluded it is the (upper) mainstream that's importat and designed their Evergreen chip for that and dual GPU for the high end single card market.
GoldenTiger
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The same could be said for yours... logically, a single GPU should compete with a single GPU. Refreshes never have historically beat out dual-GPU of the last generation nor are they generally expected to.
Yossarian22
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I liked this article, especially the confession and the experiences with dual 480s.
580 Summary:
Good performance
Too expensive to be competitive
That sound about right?
580 Summary:
Good performance
Too expensive to be competitive
That sound about right?
Lord_Exodia
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^^^ my point exactly. Although it would be amazing and unprecedented in the world of GPU's!!! I think they should go for this but I doubt it'll ever happen.
Bottom line 580 and 6970 will fall slightly shy of 5970(Hemlock) as far as real world performance, does that mean they suck or are bad GPU's, no.not at all.
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Lord_Exodia
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In this, and mostly every other real world test article it's actually usually 20%, however if those are your expectations for this refresh generation of Nvidia 500 series and AMD 6000 series. The GPU/s for you will be antilles or a dual GF110 590 series, now that it looks info on those slipped someones mouth
"KitGuru says: There are lots of reasons why a company would spend $2m sponsoring a game so close to launch. Whatever the reason, it’s hard to ignore the possibility that it is being re-styled for the GTX580 and GTX590 cards with an absolute ton of additional tessellation IQ. For those that can afford a GTX580 going into Xmas, we believe that your Crysis 2 experience when it launches (several months after March) will be as good as it gets."
Source
http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...2-being-re-designed-for-gtx580-expect-delays/
necrophile
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4870x2 is a dual gpu card but I can assure you the 5870 and everything else, rightfully was tested against it. It is price, nothing else that determines what should be compared. The end user, the comsumer must be given the information they need to make a decision. If 2 single cards cost more than one card but a dual gpu card cost the same and performed better, what service would these review sites be doing in not including it?
The Radeon 5870 was directly compared to the GTX 295 in a number of previously published reviews. This is because it was the fastest Nvidia card available at the time. As you recall, due to Nvidia being late to market the GTX 480 had not been introduced yet and therefore could not be directly compared.
The same case holds true here. The GTX 580, the new kid on the block is being compared to the 5970, the fastested of AMD's cards, since the 6970 has not been released to market yet. The situations are exactly the same. You can cry 'foul' but it's been done to AMD's card, why would the same not hold true for Nvidia's card?
The other compelling argument to compare the 5970 (other than it has been price slashed to $499) is that Nvidia has skipped generations in producing dual GPU video cards. Would you rather have the 5970 directly compared to the GTX 295 and beating it like a redheaded stepchild instead? ^_^ Then you would really cry 'foul'!
When the 6970 finally releases, I agree it would be fairest to compare the 580 to the 6970, but until then are people just expected to wait around twiddling their thumbs when there are two $499 cards that are directly in competition in the same price segment? The performance difference between these two is worth investigating to determine best bang for the buck.
+1
I was actually shocked to see some would dance around this whopping 10% improvment.
Don't lose sight of the fact that this is a refresh, not a real new product launch (new generation). It's basically 15% of free performance, with better thermals and noise to boot, at the same price point.
heatlesssun
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The problem in comparing a single GPU to a multi-GPU setup is simply that the multi-GPU setup is without fail going to have game support issues and there's no objective way to benchmark those types of things.
While of course it's interesting to compare there's simply to many "it depends" situations to make the comparison valuable, unless one is trying to get equal or superior performance from two cheaper cards relative one expensive one which is something I avoid.
Lord_Exodia
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No actually you got it wrong, I think the 5970 should only be compared to dual cards so yes it should be compared to GTX 295 just to show how frickin awesome the 5970(hemlock) is. Nvidia/amd and no gpu manufacturer plans to release a single gpu in a refresh that'll ouperform a dual GPU uber high end last gen card. Even 6970 is supposed to be slower than Hemlock by just a bit.
The only reason they should be compared is to put the information in front of consumers, it should be in no way used to judge how far nvidia has improved their GPU architecture or even AMD, will Cayman suck when it loses to hemlock by less than 10%. Same here with the 580. I'm not Nvidia loyal, i'm wallet loyal so it's not about fairness but dual GPU cards are a novelty at best. When scaling works it's great, when it doesn't it sux, rolling back drivers and all that stuff is required on a hemlock with every driver revision depending on what game your playing. That alone should excuse the small delta difference in real world vs 580.
I think people fail to realize what a dual gpu card is there for. They may buy it based on a review like this and regret it for every day they own it. I'd be equally disgusted if when 6970 came out, if Hardocp used the Zotac dual GTX 460 card to benchmark against it, even if the price was the same. If the dual 460 outperforms it, I still wouldn't buy it.
It's about how the enginuity of the engineers and how they improve the architecture, vs another.