Nvidia platform disapointing. problems with a new rig.

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jon391

n00b
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
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My new rig's specs:

A64 s754 3000 running @ stock
Patriot PC4000 512MB
Apollo Geforce 6600GT 128MB
Chaintech VNF3-250 nforce3
500watt PS
WinXP SP2

I have done quite a bit of research throughout the web, and I have come to the conclusion that nvidia is lacking in the quality department. When running Doom3 there is a great deal of what some may call texture thrashing. This is regardless of quality setting, video driver selection and agp controls in the bios. The best example of the visual disturbance I see is when you strafe along any texture (complex and even simple) there will be a segment of smooth video, but every 3/4s of a second there will be stuttering or skipping of frames.

I have read some older posts on the forum here and people have used the word texture thrashing, in which texutres are dumped out of video memory and taken off of the hard drive, because of the slower media, there is a delay. Though this explains my problem slightly (my hard drive light does blink a lot during gameplay) I have experiemented with strafing the simplest of textures and I still had stuttering. I would imagine there wouldnt be memory swap out if you looking at the same simple texture.

This brings me to nvidia. I have contrasted what I experienced on my new rig with my notebook (AXP2600, radeon9000, sis chipset). Although the frames per second are much less. The quality and consistancy of motion (from doom3 intro for example) is far greater than that of a newer system. I bought all nvidia, nforce and geforce, because I had an unrational feeling that the components would work in concert, giving me the best pc experience. This is simply wrong. I am figuring I will have to deal with my problem, unless some of you out there would be kind enough to shoot me a few suggestions.

If you could help, let me rule out a few things that I know/checked out. I am aware of Vsync and this is not my problem. I have formated and put a fresh copy of windows on. I am using the latest nforce drivers. I am using the latest detanator drivers. I have adjusted aperature size is the bios. Video card has a seperate power rail. I have an updated bios. My hard drive is in DMA mode. Definetly more things I have tried but that is all I can remember at the moment.

Thank you for taking the time to read, I am sorry it was sooo long. If you have any suggestions that would be greatly appreciated. If you have any thoughts on the quality difference between ati and nvidia, I would also be interested in reading.
 
Doom3 is hard on hardware, and your 6600GT has only 128mb RAM and that is only 128-bit, plus your system only has 512mb RAM. Only a game like Doom3, that's just asking for trouble.

Get yourself a 256-bit vid card and another 512mb RAM - the problem will go away.
 
GregP24 said:
Doom3 is hard on hardware, and your 6600GT has only 128mb RAM and that is only 128-bit, plus your system only has 512mb RAM. Only a game like Doom3, that's just asking for trouble.

Get yourself a 256-bit vid card and another 512mb RAM - the problem will go away.
Click to expand...

OR you can get a 6600GT SLI, then make sure u have at least 1 gb of ram but no more than 2 gb and make sure you turn on those special effects during game play.
Yes, just turn it on, it is weird but that's how SLI works. Higher resolution game play gives much better performance boost. It won't make sense but that's how it goes.
 
Not to be a dick, but your system blows for a game like doom3......try playing a game like UT2004 or something that requirers even less on the overall system like wolfienstien 3d, if you play RTCW and you still get that "thrashing", than something is wrong. I will say this....i play games big time and i have big time hardware, now, i too hate stutering and choppyness big time, what i do is i vsync all my games and what it does is it syncs it to my monitors refresh rate(in this case 85) and the games are MUCH smoother than without it, plus you dont get any tearing or jerkyness. The downside is that you need a powerful machine to run vsync and have it look good all the time, if the frames drop below(in my case) 85 it will stutter and slowdown, thats why i bought my dream system.

AMD FX-55 @ 3.0 w/ XP-120
2X512 OCZ Platinum Rev2 @ 550 1T
BBA X850 XT @ PE speeds
DFI Ultra-D Nforce 4 @ 280 fsb
500 watt X-connect psu
Audigy 2 Platinum
21'' Trinitron monitor

And i can safely say that with all the settings maxed out, AA at 4X(w/ temp AA on) and 8X AF and all my games vsynced, i get no stuter or slowdown.....just silky smooth game play that makes people drool when they see it in action. Exspecially the people who only have like a PS2 or X-Box, they are the ones that get the most amazed. They say they never thought games could look that smooth or play that good. Rewarding when you think my entire system cost me alittle over 1100.00 bucks after i sold my old stuff. MWha ha ha ha ha ha ....................
 
The VNF3-250 was responsibe for making me go back to an Intel desktop. :D
 
Thanks for the feedback thusfar.

Agreed, my system isnt at the top of the list performance wise. My
indication that it is not my specs, is that my radeon 9000 (in my laptop)
can produce more consistant video motion. Spec for spec a 6600GT
completely blows away a 9000.

As for the motherboard, I am actually very happy with it (unless it is causing my video stutter, but im guessing not) I temporarily brought my a64 from 2GHz to 2.5 without
any voltage increase, memory running at 500MHz. I have heard that raid is difficult to setup with this board, but im not confornted with that problem yet. What kind of problems did you chaintech board cause?
 
Tripp17 said:
Not to be a dick, but your system blows for a game like doom3......try playing a game like UT2004 or something that requirers even less on the overall system like wolfienstien 3d, if you play RTCW and you still get that "thrashing", than something is wrong. I will say this....i play games big time and i have big time hardware, now, i too hate stutering and choppyness big time, what i do is i vsync all my games and what it does is it syncs it to my monitors refresh rate(in this case 85) and the games are MUCH smoother than without it, plus you dont get any tearing or jerkyness. The downside is that you need a powerful machine to run vsync and have it look good all the time, if the frames drop below(in my case) 85 it will stutter and slowdown, thats why i bought my dream system.

AMD FX-55 @ 3.0 w/ XP-120
2X512 OCZ Platinum Rev2 @ 550 1T
BBA X850 XT @ PE speeds
DFI Ultra-D Nforce 4 @ 280 fsb
500 watt X-connect psu
Audigy 2 Platinum
21'' Trinitron monitor

And i can safely say that with all the settings maxed out, AA at 4X(w/ temp AA on) and 8X AF and all my games vsynced, i get no stuter or slowdown.....just silky smooth game play that makes people drool when they see it in action. Exspecially the people who only have like a PS2 or X-Box, they are the ones that get the most amazed. They say they never thought games could look that smooth or play that good. Rewarding when you think my entire system cost me alittle over 1100.00 bucks after i sold my old stuff. MWha ha ha ha ha ha ....................
Click to expand...

Its easier to have your specs in a sig instead of bragging about it in a post.....which by the way is of no help to the poster about his problem....

As for the stuttering problem, I would play with different resolutions and quality settings if nothing helps the stuttering, even at 800x600, then you know its a problem with your setup. You never did post what drivers you are using. I had a number of stuttering issues with older forceware 66 drivers, but the 71.84's seem to be working out pretty well so far.
 
gsboriqua said:
Its easier to have your specs in a sig instead of bragging about it in a post.....which by the way is of no help to the poster about his problem....

As for the stuttering problem, I would play with different resolutions and quality settings if nothing helps the stuttering, even at 800x600, then you know its a problem with your setup. You never did post what drivers you are using. I had a number of stuttering issues with older forceware 66 drivers, but the 71.84's seem to be working out pretty well so far.
Click to expand...


trudat, and a dual ultra system would be a "DREAM" system haha
 
Thanks for the words gsboriqua. The drivers I am currently running are 76.50. These are beta drivers I thought I would give a shot. I will try to hunt down your version 71.84, maybe that will be the lucky numbers. Unfortunetly I have tried different quality options, no success.

I will try the drivers you mentioned an report back in a few moments.
Thanks
 
I have loaded the 71.84 drivers. Those did not seem to help.
Say if my specs were at fault, what would be the next thing
to upgrade? system memory purhaps. I cant afford a new
video card at the moment - plus i just got the thing :rolleyes:
 
jon391 said:
I have loaded the 71.84 drivers. Those did not seem to help.
Say if my specs were at fault, what would be the next thing
to upgrade? system memory purhaps. I cant afford a new
video card at the moment - plus i just got the thing :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

OC ur cpu, OC ur video card, get 1gb ram. now, thats the most economic way to boost performance.
 
I would tend to agree with some of the other posters. Very little you can do with that 128 bit memory interface on that video card. Its really dragging you down. I don't believe system memory will clear you. Unsure what you paid for it (guessing around 180), but it would probably be best to try to get a refund and purchase a 256 bit 6800 (around 230ish). Someone else suggested trying different games to see how they perform (try HL2, FC etc any D3D game to see how they run). If they cannot keep the frames to an acceptable level then you need to get a different card. Upgrading to 1 gb might help you out but I would rather spend that extra cash on getting a better vid card than buying memory.

Wish I could have been of more help

:(
 
Another thing is XPSP2

SP2 seems to have a small issue with A64's

thats why i will not install it. But that could just be me and i donno is SP2 is alot better with A64's

but when i did load up SP2 on my box everything went to shit with my A64's
I did 2 loads of SP2 and same problems came up everytime....

also the Vid card you need a better one. At least a 6800 of some sort...GT, Ultra doesn't matter just get a 6800.... :D
 
Tripp17 said:
Not to be a dick, but your system blows for a game like doom3......try playing a game like UT2004 or something that requirers even less on the overall system like wolfienstien 3d, if you play RTCW and you still get that "thrashing", than something is wrong. I will say this....i play games big time and i have big time hardware, now, i too hate stutering and choppyness big time, what i do is i vsync all my games and what it does is it syncs it to my monitors refresh rate(in this case 85) and the games are MUCH smoother than without it, plus you dont get any tearing or jerkyness. The downside is that you need a powerful machine to run vsync and have it look good all the time, if the frames drop below(in my case) 85 it will stutter and slowdown, thats why i bought my dream system.

AMD FX-55 @ 3.0 w/ XP-120
2X512 OCZ Platinum Rev2 @ 550 1T
BBA X850 XT @ PE speeds
DFI Ultra-D Nforce 4 @ 280 fsb
500 watt X-connect psu
Audigy 2 Platinum
21'' Trinitron monitor

And i can safely say that with all the settings maxed out, AA at 4X(w/ temp AA on) and 8X AF and all my games vsynced, i get no stuter or slowdown.....just silky smooth game play that makes people drool when they see it in action. Exspecially the people who only have like a PS2 or X-Box, they are the ones that get the most amazed. They say they never thought games could look that smooth or play that good. Rewarding when you think my entire system cost me alittle over 1100.00 bucks after i sold my old stuff. MWha ha ha ha ha ha ....................
Click to expand...

Not to be a dick... but his system DOESN'T blow for Doom 3. It kicks mine's ass royally, and I have a very smooth preformance with no 'swapping and stuttering issue'. Not to be a dick, but you don't have to have over $2000 dollars of equipment to run a 50$ game.

This sounds like there is a problem with your hardware itself, or software conflicting with said hardware, as most people don't experience this problem with a 6600GT, it's considered a VERY good option for Doom 3.

Don't know what to perscribe for this other a format and reinstall. Sorry...
 
[RIP]Zeus said:
Another thing is XPSP2

SP2 seems to have a small issue with A64's

thats why i will not install it. But that could just be me and i donno is SP2 is alot better with A64's

but when i did load up SP2 on my box everything went to shit with my A64's
I did 2 loads of SP2 and same problems came up everytime....

also the Vid card you need a better one. At least a 6800 of some sort...GT, Ultra doesn't matter just get a 6800.... :D
Click to expand...

The only problem I had with SP2 (I too have an A64), is the blue screen problem with unreal based games and DEP enabled. That issue has been corrected in the latest forceware drivers.

I am also assuming that since this is a new system that he just did a fresh install, so I'm pretty sure reinstalling is pointless. Maybe a bios update and the latest nforce drivers for his MB.

Maybe its an in game setting, waiting to hear if his other games play ok. I think there is an option in the cfg (d3) file to increase cache size that might help the stuttering....
 
[RIP]Zeus said:
Another thing is XPSP2

SP2 seems to have a small issue with A64's

thats why i will not install it. But that could just be me and i donno is SP2 is alot better with A64's

but when i did load up SP2 on my box everything went to shit with my A64's
I did 2 loads of SP2 and same problems came up everytime....

also the Vid card you need a better one. At least a 6800 of some sort...GT, Ultra doesn't matter just get a 6800.... :D
Click to expand...
well as you said maybe its just you, but i seems to have issues when my comp doesn't have SP2 :D
anyway like someone has said try to have ur VSYNC ON not off..
i used to thought that vsync always stuff things up but infact it does help my game smoother .. it was in the game World of warcraft that i noticed it........ without it on the frame rate would seems to be smooth for a second or 2 but every 3/4 second the video would start chopping.. having the VSYNC on solved the problem.. well it was on a laptop with the geforce4 go 440 that i tried. ^^
 
Tripp17 said:
Bragging....................
Click to expand...

Thanks for contributing, I'm sure you helped him out ALOT by telling him that his sytems is bad :D

:rolleyes:


Get another 512mb of ram. If that doesnt fix it. Start saving up for a big upgrade to an R520 in 3 or 4 months. If you dun wanna upgrade. Just keep the card, and get some more ram, oh, and a CPU upgrade would be good to, something like a 3500+ minimum
 
Well I have tried Battlefield Vietnam and I still get video stuttering. It is not as bad as in Doom3 however. I was looking under AGP setting in video properties (with coolbits) and noticed that the bios and the card all say it is running at 8X but the OS says 2X. I did some research and found out that it is a bug and that it really is running at 8x. It just makes me very uneasy to see that.

I usualy have Vsync on. The visual artifact that I get when it is off is a horizonal refresh line moving/tearing verticaly upwards. This is unlike my problem, in which entire frames drop every 3/4s of a second. In between these distracting frame losses i seem to get very smooth frame rates, im guessing well over 60. So the GPU is processing quickly, just not accurately.

I will try adding more memory in a bit. The memory I would be testing with it is pc2100, so I dont know if that will counteract the benefit of having more. but i will give it a shot. thanks everyone for the suggestions. Ill keep you posted
 
image26wx.jpg


I honestly would have to say that although my 6800 does score immensly higher than my 9600xt, it does often have points where its minimum is lower, even at the same setting, and that makes me "GAH" sometimes as it shouldn't happen.
 
I was looking under AGP setting in video properties (with coolbits) and noticed that the bios and the card all say it is running at 8X but the OS says 2X. I did some research and found out that it is a bug and that it really is running at 8x. It just makes me very uneasy to see that.
Click to expand...
Ten Characters
 
aZn_plyR said:
trudat, and a dual ultra system would be a "DREAM" system haha
Click to expand...


Actually, i had a SLI setup. I had 2 6800GTs that i had flashed to ultras and yes...while doom3 was greatly benifited by it, all most every other game was a major dissapointment to say the least. I was able to salvage the situation by selling off the A8N-SLI board along with both 6800GTs and buy my current rig. Bragging......no, to the point....you bet. Your not gonna play a game that in my opinion blows in the first place with outragous system specs to play with a system like the guy has, sorry just not gonna happen. Can it played will his system, sure if you wanna call it that. It was my opinion that he should stick to games that requirer less overall system power than doom3 wants. I simply stated my computer specs to show that even with the best of rigs the game is tough to play. I have better things to do than come to computer forums and "brag".......i simply was giving him an idea of what to expect with his hardware. Take it or reject it. Simple no?
 
Cadaver said:
We choose to reject it. Thanks anyway.
Click to expand...

"You" choose to reject it and thats fine, but it is the truth and i hope you realize it. Im sorry for coming off as arrogant before as i usually help people and im nicer about it. Good luck with everything and remember that vsync will help alot but only in some games. If i were you, id overclock the hell out of everything and hope for the best performance improvement, then id go out and buy the new 3200 90mm core that overclocks to 2.8 with stock cooling and no extra voltage, then youll be getting somewhere. The cores will be available soon and be not much more than the regular 3200+ processors.....a real gem.
 
I'm all for insane power and overclocking to hell and back , but you don't need a chilled athlonfx and dual ultras to play doom3.
In fact I've playtested a system almost identical to that (albeit with 1GB ram) and it ran through doom3 like a champ.

One thing you could try is turning off fastwrites (in the bios) , it seems to cause a lot of problems to a lot of people.
Also make sure you aren't using ultra quality , you really need 256MB Vram for that.

If I upgraded anything in your rig , it would be system ram , you really need 1gig.
Some games will stutter and some will be plain unplayable (farcry) with only 512MB.
 
Its alright tripp, I see what your saying now. I have tried putting in an extra 512 of ram (be it at pc2100) to equal a GB, however I have not seen a change. Vsync is also turned on and fast writes are off. I guess what I am reading from others with nvidia cards is that they are not experiencing what I am. I still am baffled by how my radeon 9000 with 64megs of ram can produce more consistant graphics. Does it sound like a driver problem at first glance? If I was trying to help someone with my problem, that is what I would say. I have been building pc for a long time now, so I dont think I am missing anything, but I could be wrong.

I have heard that cheap power supplies can be a cause of stuttering and freezing (when using media player last night the graphic froze for like 5 seconds then resumed) and my 500watt came with my $55 case. Does that sound too cheap? I can get my hands on 350watt that was bought for $40 (and thats without a case), is it worth a try or shouldnt I bother?
 
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