NVIDIA's SLI Mainstream?

[Advil]

As a custom computer builder and retailer, we took an opposite stance. Up to this point there has almost always been a single video card that can do what SLI is capable of, so we never recommended SLI to anyone except the high-end buyer who was going to start out with it. The reasons were simple. Most 6600s can't SLI, Two 6800GTs may not even beat one 7800GT and the only reason to have that much power is to run very high resolutions like 1600 or higher and all cards before the 7800 series don't maintain good frame rates at that res or higher. So, it has been mainly for the elite who want two 7800s.

Now that brands can be mixed, and with the rumors of Nvidia offering a full lineup of 7000 series cards, perhaps there will actually be a point to getting one mid range card and another later. Then again, at the pace technology changes, maybe not.


EDIT - Oh, and my two XFX 7800GT cards for SLI just arrived this morning. I'm in the exact same situation as the article. I have to add another waterblock, and I just got a 2405fpw and gaming without at least 4xAA in 1920 just doesn't do it for me. So, it's finally SLI time. The big rebates and free COD2s with each card didn't hurt either.

 

[FrgMstr]

As a custom computer builder and retailer, we took an opposite stance. Up to this point there has almost always been a single video card that can do what SLI is capable of, so we never recommended SLI to anyone except the high-end buyer who was going to start out with it. The reasons were simple. Most 6600s can't SLI, Two 6800GTs may not even beat one 7800GT and the only reason to have that much power is to run very high resolutions like 1600 or higher and all cards before the 7800 series don't maintain good frame rates at that res or higher. So, it has been mainly for the elite who want two 7800s.

Now that brands can be mixed, and with the rumors of Nvidia offering a full lineup of 7000 series cards, perhaps there will actually be a point to getting one mid range card and another later. Then again, at the pace technology changes, maybe not.


EDIT - Oh, and my two XFX 7800GT cards for SLI just arrived this morning. I'm in the exact same situation as the article. I have to add another waterblock, and I just got a 2405fpw and gaming without at least 4xAA in 1920 just doesn't do it for me. So, it's finally SLI time. The big rebates and free COD2s with each card didn't hurt either.

You make a lot of sense here too. SLI is not for everyone by a long shot.

 

[Deleted member 109755]

So I'm building another computer and I already have one XFX 7800GTX (450/1250), but by reading the article you're saying I could spend less money on say, an evga 7800GTX at stock speeds and it would work?

 

[Andross182]

in all honesty i thought i would get more performance outa my BFG 7800GT sli setup with my 23" apple display, unless its my monitor holding me back...i just dont know what to think...i really wanna try crossfire

 

[Deleted member 109755]

Piss on crossfire! Nvidia all the way!

 

[darkjedi]

I have been running the "new" SLI since it was made available.

I started with the ASUS board, an FX53 and a pair of 6600GT's to replace my old AGP 6800GT. Generally it worked well. Then I got a Dell 20" LCD and those 6600GT's just did not cut it for 1600x1200 gaming. So I sold those off and got a pair of 6800GT's, and a PCP&C 510 SLI Power Supply. Again, all was good! Then, I sold off the 20" LCD and found a sweet ebay deal on the Dell 2405 24" widescreen LCD. Sadly, those 6800 GT's just didn't cut it for me at 1920x1200 (for games that support widescreen) with all the spiffy options turned on. So I sold off the 6800GT's and the FX53 and and got a pair of 7800GTX's and an Athlon X2 4400+. I got the X2 because I read that the soon-to-be released 80 series drivers would use the dual core chips. So far - especially with the 81.85 driver... Damn nice!

Admittedly, there have been many days over the past year or so where I had to download a new BIOS for the ASUS MoBo or grab the latest drivers to get a game to play correctly with SLI, but it has been relateively positive and always a learning experience

These latest 81.85 drivers have been really nice and have allowed for my best stable overclocks so far (490core, 1350mem). Although, at this very moment I am downloading the new 81.87 drivers... always gotta try the new drivers!

New tech is fun to play with... and I will say that it does finally seem to be much more main stream. If the opportunity arises, I will certainly recommend it to my clients. (Although, most all my clients are business types that just do Internet, e-mail & Office Apps type stuff... no real need for SLI there)

As always, great article Kyle.

 

[sbuckler]

It's noticable after 3 pages of thread of peoples experience that no one has actually bought one card and added another later. Everyone started with 2 cards and either went to a faster single card, or a faster SLi setup.

 

[mohammedtaha]

It's noticable after 3 pages of thread of peoples experience that no one has actually bought one card and added another later. Everyone started with 2 cards and either went to a faster single card, or a faster SLi setup.

Well, what probably goes through their mind is if they're gonna buy the card later, might as well buy it now. Or If they want to make sure they get excellent performance, they'll buy 2 cards instead of one. I doubt someone is gonna buy 1 now and then when the new generation of cards come out he'll purchase a second card for SLi because it's cheaper. Why not sell off the first one and use the extra money and buy 1 good card ?

Dual card setups are for those of us who LOVE @ gaming the best resolutions or bragging rights.

Another thing you'll notice is that people who have SLi would almost always have the best system too.

 

[tphillips63]

I too was avoiding SLI since I had an ATI x850PE, but when Dell announced the XPS 600 and the first few weeks had 35% off on them I bought one.
At first I was pissed about the reboots going into SLI to play a game. That was fixed within the month by nVidia driver updates. I did get the 24" wide screen LCD and the P4 840 EE so I could run it at 3.6GHz. Like Kyle said SLI is not without some glitches still but with all the things they have done and are working on to improve it further it's mainstream enough for me.

 

[Cannydog]

Kyle, as allways, I appreciate your insights on this matter. But I wonder if any of the [H]ard|Forum members here can even relate to what "mainstream" actually is....? Face it! We are definately "Enthusiasts", not mainstream computer users.

Let me give you one example: Last I heard 68% of computers still have AGP graphics cards in them; so of the 32% that have PCI-E, how many do you think have 7800GTXs or X1800s? Short Answer: Not that many! But let's just say that 12% can afford a top of the line video card. Now how many can afford a 24" Dell LCD, SLI motherboard with X2 processor, and 2 7800GTXs? Let's be really generous and say 4%. That means that only 4 out of every 100 computer users, or less than 1 in 20, can afford this kind of setup. That's just not going to ever be "mainstream". Just on Economic factors alone.

Now I hear what Kyle is saying. He feels that SLI has reached the point where the positive factors outweigh the negative ones. Drivers work better with monitor layouts that are different from "normal". Fewer reboots are required. Game support is good. All this is well and good. But the fact remains that the "mainstream" user doesn't seem to use the computer for gaming. They don't even want, or need, SLI, even if they might be able to afford it.

If you want to get a sense for what's "mainstream" visit your local Electonics Boutique and compare the PC section with the rest of the store. It's completely different from what it was just just a few years ago. And considering the capabilities of the Xbox 360 and PS3 I'd say this trend isn't going to change. The part that bothers me is that this means that fewer and fewer game titles are being developed for the PC. And when they do the Devs have to try and make it as playable for a whole bunch of systems out there that are far inferior to even a "cheap SLI" setup.

No Offense.... but you guys just can't relate to how "mainstream" users think. You are Elite PC Gamers who generally aren't satisfied with anything less than the best. Or, at least, the best you can afford.

I think I'm pretty safe in making the following generalizations. LCDs aren't quite mainstream, though they are getting there. 64bit CPUs are not mainstream. 7000 series and X1000 series Graphics cards aren't mainstream. Overclocking certainly isn't mainstream. So while SLI might be "ready for mainstream", whether it ever gets there is something we can't determine at this time.

P.S. I seriously doubt Kyle Bennett has ever been "mainstream" in his entire life. Though that's beside the point.

 

[Yoshiyuki Blade]

Kyle, as allways, I appreciate your insights on this matter. But I wonder if any of the [H]ard|Forum members here can even relate to what "mainstream" actually is....? Face it! We are definately "Enthusiasts", not mainstream computer users.

Let me give you one example: Last I heard 68% of computers still have AGP graphics cards in them; so of the 32% that have PCI-E, how many do you think have 7800GTXs or X1800s? Short Answer: Not that many! But let's just say that 12% can afford a top of the line video card. Now how many can afford a 24" Dell LCD, SLI motherboard with X2 processor, and 2 7800GTXs? Let's be really generous and say 4%. That means that only 4 out of every 100 computer users, or less than 1 in 20, can afford this kind of setup. That's just not going to ever be "mainstream". Just on Economic factors alone.

Now I hear what Kyle is saying. He feels that SLI has reached the point where the positive factors outweigh the negative ones. Drivers work better with monitor layouts that are different from "normal". Fewer reboots are required. Game support is good. All this is well and good. But the fact remains that the "mainstream" user doesn't seem to use the computer for gaming. They don't even want, or need, SLI, even if they might be able to afford it.

If you want to get a sense for what's "mainstream" visit your local Electonics Boutique and compare the PC section with the rest of the store. It's completely different from what it was just just a few years ago. And considering the capabilities of the Xbox 360 and PS3 I'd say this trend isn't going to change. The part that bothers me is that this means that fewer and fewer game titles are being developed for the PC. And when they do the Devs have to try and make it as playable for a whole bunch of systems out there that are far inferior to even a "cheap SLI" setup.

No Offense.... but you guys just can't relate to how "mainstream" users think. You are Elite PC Gamers who generally aren't satisfied with anything less than the best. Or, at least, the best you can afford.

I think I'm pretty safe in making the following generalizations. LCDs aren't quite mainstream, though they are getting there. 64bit CPUs are not mainstream. 7000 series and X1000 series Graphics cards aren't mainstream. Overclocking certainly isn't mainstream. So while SLI might be "ready for mainstream", whether it ever gets there is something we can't determine at this time.

P.S. I seriously doubt Kyle Bennett has ever been "mainstream" in his entire life. Though that's beside the point.

SLi doesn't always relate to the most expensive video card available. In Kyles article, he mentions that SLi-capable cards' prices range from $100 to $500, which is true. It's also becoming more mainstream because of the fact that the OEM market is including them in their setups (although its still more in the high-end market). With improved flexibility and stability, its something more qualified for the "everyday user" to have without the headaches that existed at introduction.

 

[magoo]

Im not sure Id agree that "mainstream" means everybody in the world that needs a computer. I think that, to me at least, it applies to a guy like myself that knows some stuff but not everything and can , almost effortlessly, implement SLI. I like to build computers, dont get me wrong, and I guess that takes me out of the "mainstream". I read alot about whats coming. I enjoy having the latest tech to make my games look sweet and run as fast as the developer intended. But I aint no brilliant programmer. But I could put together a real nice SLI system, throw the switch and BANG.....there it was. Thats effortless and reasonably "mainstream" (indicating how easy it is to do). I agree that the average guy doesnt even know what SLI is, nor do they care.(especially at the tune of $1000 for cards). However when you look at what two 6600 GTs can give you or 7800 GTs for that matter I think more and more interested persons will buy them. Id not want to be the support guys at Dell for awhile tho".....

 

[Sharkzf6]

You're correct. SLI is something to consider if you're on the upgrade path and is within your grasp financially. Let's face it; purchasing 2 video cards at $200 to $300 each or more is not something even your average "enthusiast" is ready to do, let alone the "mainstream" end user. IMHO, even today you'd have to spend that much just to get something close to top-level performance. If that's the case, why not just spend $500 on an nv7800 or ati1800? I believe you'd get as good or better performance as with an SLI rig without the potential problems of dealing with SLI. My bet is we’re more likely to see single card with dual GPU solutions that have upwards of 1 gig of local RAM as the “mainstream” config in the future. It’s more practical and energy saving than dual cards and, ultimately, will be a no-brainer to set up.

 

[MaxGhz]

Once I read about the requirements for FEAR, I put my SLI together and very happy I did. Although my 6800 Ultra system still plays it relatively fast at desktop resos and max settings, but it does not look as good or run as fast as the SLI. Just saw the quad SLI mobo boards. Its getting more insane. Have to mortgage the house for the next build.
http://www.hkepc.com/hwdb/nf4slix16-3.htm

 

[Deleted member 109755]

Heh, the overall scores for the quad card systems are actually lower than the dual card systems........wwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeaaaaaaakkkkkkkkk

 

[LyCoS]

i don't see the point of SLI for mainstream, i really din't. i see a point for high end, maybe mid-range, but mainstream

 

[slackerjack]

I've got two 7800GT's in SLI. As far as benchmarks go, they rule. But i don't give an RFA about benchmarks. I care about "real world" performance in games. I play on a comp team in CAL and TWL, and its all about FPS when it comes to competition. With CoD2, my frame rates are about the same as ppl running the same settings, with only a single card.

I'm not going to say i'm disappointed, but i really and truly thought that SLI was going to push my FPS way up there, which it has, but not where i thought it would be. I've got a backup box with an AGP 6800GT and i'm going to do some comparision between that box and my SLI box, to see if I'm off in my assessment. And yes, i know you can force DX7 in CoD2 for better FPS, but i just dropped a wad of cash for SLI, i'd like to be able to run the games at a high FPS in DX9.

So while i agree its a great idea, i'm just not quite sold on it being the be all end all. And Kyle, i enjoy your monthly article in Computer Power User, as well as your articles and reviews here. Your one of the few ppl that "tells it like it is." I respect that.


sj

www.stealthygreentoupees.com

 

[HighTest]

i don't see the point of SLI for mainstream, i really din't. i see a point for high end, maybe mid-range, but mainstream

I do, and let me explain. At the beginning of this year, I finally had the resources available to allow me to upgrade from a 2100+ XP to an Athlon 64 setup. Researching showed that I could just afford a new nForce4 SLI motherboard, 3000+ and a "single" graphics card. I wanted to ensure that I was slightly "future" proofed, so that my system would stretch out over my needs as long as the 2100+ had.

While not stellar, the 6600GT from MSI met my needs at great frame rates at resolutions my monitor could currently reach. So I picked up the MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum/SLI motherboard and the MSI NX6600GT-TD128E.

When I explained that latter in the fall I could afford to purchase a "used" MSI 6600GT to go SLI at the time of my purchase, everyone mostly said "fool, how can you even guarantee that you can get the same board/bios rev? Buy a more expensive GPU fool!" Missing my point that I only had about $30.00 surpluss, not enough to upgrade the GPU significantly at the time and wouldn't have had an SLI capable mobo.

Now that I can esentially use "any" PCI-E 6600GT, my point is even more valid. I'll be able to easily pickup a used 6600GT from ebay at less than $70.00 this winter I'm sure. I still wouldn't have the funds to go up a whole new generation. So I'll get a bump in performance from what I currently have, and again while not stellar, it's still a very good bump up. Eventually when two cards are not sufficient, I'll again be able to financially swing a single 7800GT (provided the pricing continues to drop) and start the same process all over again (getting another 7800GT used on ebay whenever the 9800 GTX "or whatever they'll call it to not confuse it with ATI's 9800 series" is released).

So it's deffinetly "mainstream" for me, and of great value too! What one needs to realize in order to understand my point, is that you don't have to think of SLI used to be the fastest dog on the block but to also allow acceptable performance from the lowend SLI capable cards for those on a budget, yet want to hold onto their hardware as long as is possible for that price point.

 

[c1001]

I've got two 7800GT's in SLI. As far as benchmarks go, they rule. But i don't give an RFA about benchmarks. I care about "real world" performance in games. I play on a comp team in CAL and TWL, and its all about FPS when it comes to competition. With CoD2, my frame rates are about the same as ppl running the same settings, with only a single card.

I'm not going to say i'm disappointed, but i really and truly thought that SLI was going to push my FPS way up there, which it has, but not where i thought it would be. I've got a backup box with an AGP 6800GT and i'm going to do some comparision between that box and my SLI box, to see if I'm off in my assessment. And yes, i know you can force DX7 in CoD2 for better FPS, but i just dropped a wad of cash for SLI, i'd like to be able to run the games at a high FPS in DX9.

So while i agree its a great idea, i'm just not quite sold on it being the be all end all. And Kyle, i enjoy your monthly article in Computer Power User, as well as your articles and reviews here. Your one of the few ppl that "tell it like it is." I respect that.

sj
QUOTE]

I have to agree with your assessment of SLI. My 3DMark05 benches went up from the 4k range to almost 11k with SLI'd eVGA 7800GTX KO cards and a 4800+ CPU, but real world gaming has not had an equivalent jump in performance.

In some ways SLI is still a hack job with drivers and settings. Oh, and if you want to realize the full potential of SLI, you need a big expensive monitor that runs 1920x1200. But then you have to go thru another hack job with many games (even brand new ones like F.E.A.R.) because they do not readily support those high resolutions.

SLI is definitely not mainstream material YET. Getting SLI to perform is still enthusiast territory: expensive, and requires dedicated interest to work thru glitches, stuttering, settings, crashes, and compatibility issues. I think that a mainstream user just wants to play a game without tweaking and fiddling under the hood. Not deal with chipset drivers, display drivers, X2 stuttering drivers (oh and don't forget to uninstall the old drivers first), and BIOS settings. Until SLI gets to that point, I don't think it can be mainstream.

 

[LyCoS]

I do, and let me explain. At the beginning of this year, I finally had the resources available to allow me to upgrade from a 2100+ XP to an Athlon 64 setup. Researching showed that I could just afford a new nForce4 SLI motherboard, 3000+ and a "single" graphics card. I wanted to ensure that I was slightly "future" proofed, so that my system would stretch out over my needs as long as the 2100+ had.

While not stellar, the 6600GT from MSI met my needs at great frame rates at resolutions my monitor could currently reach. So I picked up the MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum/SLI motherboard and the MSI NX6600GT-TD128E.

When I explained that latter in the fall I could afford to purchase a "used" MSI 6600GT to go SLI at the time of my purchase, everyone mostly said "fool, how can you even guarantee that you can get the same board/bios rev? Buy a more expensive GPU fool!" Missing my point that I only had about $30.00 surpluss, not enough to upgrade the GPU significantly at the time and wouldn't have had an SLI capable mobo.

Now that I can esentially use "any" PCI-E 6600GT, my point is even more valid. I'll be able to easily pickup a used 6600GT from ebay at less than $70.00 this winter I'm sure. I still wouldn't have the funds to go up a whole new generation. So I'll get a bump in performance from what I currently have, and again while not stellar, it's still a very good bump up. Eventually when two cards are not sufficient, I'll again be able to financially swing a single 7800GT (provided the pricing continues to drop) and start the same process all over again (getting another 7800GT used on ebay whenever the 9800 GTX "or whatever they'll call it to not confuse it with ATI's 9800 series" is released).

So it's deffinetly "mainstream" for me, and of great value too! What one needs to realize in order to understand my point, is that you don't have to think of SLI used to be the fastest dog on the block but to also allow acceptable performance from the lowend SLI capable cards for those on a budget, yet want to hold onto their hardware as long as is possible for that price point.

6600GT isn't mainstream, 6200 is. from there on, i'm very happy for you, but 2 6200 in SLI...

but then it seems like there's a confusion in market vocabulary :
6600GT -> midrange
6200/x300/intel intergrated -> "budget" -> mainstream.

if you're of a midrange budget (150-250), and you optimise your choices correctly in time, SLI becomes unnecessary, it only really makes sense when you put 2 7800GT/GTX together... and then comes in the inconveniences of getting 2 cards :
- you sacrifice expansion
- more heat
- more noise
so if you want a silent pc, watercooling is your only choice, imposes more hidden costs, you need a bigger PSU, which will have another 80w pulling thrue it, itself will therefor produce more noise... a less-then-linear scaling, so you're actually paying 100% more money on a card, for in the best of all cases, get +2 in FSAA (check hardocp "gaming evaluation").

oh and it doesnt fit in a shuttle, the only shuttle it fits in, you cant watercool the cards (not enough room for a waterblock), so you're stuck with the heat and the noise...

i have nothing against nvidia SLI, i think the same of crossfire...

 

[Cannydog]

...Getting SLI to perform is still enthusiast territory: expensive, and requires dedicated interest to work thru glitches, stuttering, settings, crashes, and compatibility issues. I think that a mainstream user just wants to play a game without tweaking and fiddling under the hood. Not deal with chipset drivers, display drivers, X2 stuttering drivers (oh and don't forget to uninstall the old drivers first), and BIOS settings. Until SLI gets to that point, I don't think it can be mainstream....

Agreed! That's precisely what the consoles have that the PC is lacking. People want to buy a game put it in and have it work. Now SLI might be getting closer to that kind of functionality. But more than the "die-hard" gamers have to adopt it before it becomes mainstream.

 

[mi1stormilst]

for some intelligent comments (-;

I would like to see how performance is effected if at all by using matched cards vs unmatched cards. I am betting there is a performance hit?

 

[WarHammer]

Does SLI get you any advantages in Windows or Bus. Apps?

 

[S[H]ady]

6600GT isn't mainstream, 6200 is. from there on, i'm very happy for you, but 2 6200 in SLI...

but then it seems like there's a confusion in market vocabulary :
6600GT -> midrange
6200/x300/intel intergrated -> "budget" -> mainstream.

if you're of a midrange budget (150-250), and you optimise your choices correctly in time, SLI becomes unnecessary, it only really makes sense when you put 2 7800GT/GTX together... and then comes in the inconveniences of getting 2 cards :
- you sacrifice expansion
- more heat
- more noise
so if you want a silent pc, watercooling is your only choice, imposes more hidden costs, you need a bigger PSU, which will have another 80w pulling thrue it, itself will therefor produce more noise... a less-then-linear scaling, so you're actually paying 100% more money on a card, for in the best of all cases, get +2 in FSAA (check hardocp "gaming evaluation").

oh and it doesnt fit in a shuttle, the only shuttle it fits in, you cant watercool the cards (not enough room for a waterblock), so you're stuck with the heat and the noise...

i have nothing against nvidia SLI, i think the same of crossfire...

I have to disagree with you there. Most of the things that you mentioned, i would consider enthusiast.
Such as:
-Silent PC. Most people just want a computer to run, they aren't concerned with silence.
-Watercooling. Definately an enthusiast product. no one in the mainstream is getting into H2O cooling, hell most enthusiasts can't afford that.
-Bigger PSU. Only needed if you are running with 2 enthusiast level cards (6800gt and up) running 2 6600gts does not require anymore than a good name 450w psu (antec, enermax. No need for a PCPC PSU.)

you also mention that 6600gts are not mainstream.... I disagree with that as well.
Anyone looking to get into a gaiming rig would be stupid to look at anything less than a 6600gt. Obviously, an SLI setup is for gaming.
I think most people are thinking of mainstream as Dell and Compaq. I think SLI fits well with the mainstream enthusiast (such as myself). What i mean by that is, I am an enthusiast, with the budget of a mainstream user. I always have been. i just can't afford anymore. HighTest fits the bill too.
i generaly buy my PC compenents when they are at the best bang for your buck. I don't have the money to drop $600 on the newest card. I generaly spend $200CDN. When i upgraded, I wanted an easy upgrade path, so i opted for the SLI board. If I can afford to get into SLI, then I would consider it to be mainstream.

SLI is not a mainstream option if you consider the budget box computer to be mainstream. But i think of it as mainstream for what it is intended. SLI will never be in an off the shelf system you can buy at bestbuy, but for a gamer, it is within reach, and easy to install, making that mainstream within its niche market, Gamers.

You don't need to drop $1000 to have an SLI system and even though 2 6600gts will cost about the same as a 6800gt, the better card is not always within reach. 2 cards can be purchased at seperate times. 6600gts have excellent performance for the price, and picking up a second one a few months down the line is a better option in my opinion, over haveing to wait an extra month or 2 just so I could get a 6800gt/ultra, or a 7800gt. Just not in the cards for me right now. I'm sure there are alot of people in my shoes.

 

[S[H]ady]

Does SLI get you any advantages in Windows or Bus. Apps?

what advantages would you get????
high end graphics setups are for just that. graphics. Windows and Bus. Apps would have zero benifit from an SLI setup.

 

[slackerjack]

It appears that i get about 20 more FPS with SLI on my 7800GT's then i do on my 6800GT.....

 

[mi1stormilst]

I have to disagree with you there. Most of the things that you mentioned, i would consider enthusiast.
Such as:
-Silent PC. Most people just want a computer to run, they aren't concerned with silence.
-Watercooling. Definately an enthusiast product. no one in the mainstream is getting into H2O cooling, hell most enthusiasts can't afford that.
-Bigger PSU. Only needed if you are running with 2 enthusiast level cards (6800gt and up) running 2 6600gts does not require anymore than a good name 450w psu (antec, enermax. No need for a PCPC PSU.)

you also mention that 6600gts are not mainstream.... I disagree with that as well.
Anyone looking to get into a gaiming rig would be stupid to look at anything less than a 6600gt. Obviously, an SLI setup is for gaming.
I think most people are thinking of mainstream as Dell and Compaq. I think SLI fits well with the mainstream enthusiast (such as myself). What i mean by that is, I am an enthusiast, with the budget of a mainstream user. I always have been. i just can't afford anymore. HighTest fits the bill too.
i generaly buy my PC compenents when they are at the best bang for your buck. I don't have the money to drop $600 on the newest card. I generaly spend $200CDN. When i upgraded, I wanted an easy upgrade path, so i opted for the SLI board. If I can afford to get into SLI, then I would consider it to be mainstream.

SLI is not a mainstream option if you consider the budget box computer to be mainstream. But i think of it as mainstream for what it is intended. SLI will never be in an off the shelf system you can buy at bestbuy, but for a gamer, it is within reach, and easy to install, making that mainstream within its niche market, Gamers.

You don't need to drop $1000 to have an SLI system and even though 2 6600gts will cost about the same as a 6800gt, the better card is not always within reach. 2 cards can be purchased at seperate times. 6600gts have excellent performance for the price, and picking up a second one a few months down the line is a better option in my opinion, over haveing to wait an extra month or 2 just so I could get a 6800gt/ultra, or a 7800gt. Just not in the cards for me right now. I'm sure there are alot of people in my shoes.

SLI is not mainstream at any level. I think the industry is moving backwards (ATI for ATI CROSSFIRE and NVIDIA for NVIDIA SLI) IMHO "Enthusiast" is just a glorified term for a person who likes being taken to the cleaners (more clearly likes blunt objects stuffed in their corn hole). I have a family (4 kids) so my needs or wants don't always comes first. Just because I am not running SLI does not mean I am not a computer hobbiest. I edit videos, images, run a family website, have raid 0 raptors and raid 1 for storage. I love tweaking and modding. SLI to me is not a good bang for the buck and anyone that calls themself an enthusiast just because they run SLI, play DOOM III and surf for porn is a MORON...again IMHO (-;

 

[Advil]

Interesting reading how a few of you clam that SLI hasn't increased your real world gaming performance. I'm doubly anxious to put it to the test on my 2405 next week and see what happens between one 7800gt and two. I'm intentionally waiting to try this out until I can get my hands on a A8N32 mobo since my primary interest in sli is running high AA while at 1920.

There have been a truckload of review sites that have shown SLI performance at 1600 and above to be 30% faster or more, even with aggressive AA settings.

 

[slackerjack]

I've tried running 1600x1200 on CoD2 with my SLI setup, and i end up getting raped by my FPS. Even with no AA and no AF, i end up running on average, 13 FPS outdoors and abotu 25 FPS indoors. I'm playing 1024x768 right now just to try and keep FPS above 60 with 2AA enabled. I'm seriously considering sending back one of my cards since i have 30 days to return it. It just hasn't given me the real world performance that I keep reading about....

 

[MaxGhz]

slackerjack-- Not having that problem in COD2 at 1600x1200 with settings maxed. What CPU/vid cards are you running?.

 

[slackerjack]

slackerjack-- Not having that problem in COD2 at 1600x1200 with settings maxed. What CPU/vid cards are you running?.

BFG's at 445/1125. I think i figured it out a bit. Everytime you open the game, you have to check the "optimize for sli" box under "options" (least i have to). At 4AF and 8AA at 1280x900 i'm getting between 90 & 125. When i try 1600x1200 (which looks awesome i might add), i drop down between 40 and 60.

But with out the box checked, my frames are cut in half. So i will rescind some of my earlier statements about SLI. I think one needs to play with it a bit to get it to where you can take advantage of it.

 

[LyCoS]

I have to disagree with you there. Most of the things that you mentioned, i would consider enthusiast.
Such as:
-Silent PC. Most people just want a computer to run, they aren't concerned with silence.
-Watercooling. Definately an enthusiast product. no one in the mainstream is getting into H2O cooling, hell most enthusiasts can't afford that.
-Bigger PSU. Only needed if you are running with 2 enthusiast level cards (6800gt and up) running 2 6600gts does not require anymore than a good name 450w psu (antec, enermax. No need for a PCPC PSU.)

yeah my point too... by the way, silent PCs are mainstream, just not as dead silent as a silent oriented enthusiast's, but definatly more silent then a typical gaiming rig

you also mention that 6600gts are not mainstream.... I disagree with that as well.
Anyone looking to get into a gaiming rig would be stupid to look at anything less than a 6600gt. Obviously, an SLI setup is for gaming.

if you think that way, anything between intergrated and 6600GT is just useless...

I think most people are thinking of mainstream as Dell and Compaq. I think SLI fits well with the mainstream enthusiast (such as myself). What i mean by that is, I am an enthusiast, with the budget of a mainstream user. I always have been. i just can't afford anymore. HighTest fits the bill too.
i generaly buy my PC compenents when they are at the best bang for your buck. I don't have the money to drop $600 on the newest card. I generaly spend $200CDN. When i upgraded, I wanted an easy upgrade path, so i opted for the SLI board. If I can afford to get into SLI, then I would consider it to be mainstream.

mainstream enthusiast... interesting concept really...

SLI is not a mainstream option if you consider the budget box computer to be mainstream. But i think of it as mainstream for what it is intended. SLI will never be in an off the shelf system you can buy at bestbuy, but for a gamer, it is within reach, and easy to install, making that mainstream within its niche market, Gamers.

gamers who can't afford to buy... who fall for the easy upgrade path joke... your narrowing down quite a bit...

You don't need to drop $1000 to have an SLI system and even though 2 6600gts will cost about the same as a 6800gt, the better card is not always within reach. 2 cards can be purchased at seperate times. 6600gts have excellent performance for the price, and picking up a second one a few months down the line is a better option in my opinion, over haveing to wait an extra month or 2 just so I could get a 6800gt/ultra, or a 7800gt. Just not in the cards for me right now. I'm sure there are alot of people in my shoes.

what nvidia fails to precise is that by the time you can upgrade to a second card, the cards features will probably be outdated... you probably won't really want to buy into old technology as much... i could go on but i'm too tired

 

[RedRaven]

Cool down-to-earth article

Somehow I can't see Kyle qualifying as being part of the mass market though

But yeah, I'd look at SLI seriously now, especially now boards are coming with full speed PCI-e...

Be interesting to see how mobos like the Asus A8N32-SLI turn out in the long run... and if the extra PCI-e bandwidth makes any difference.

 

[S[H]ady]

SLI is not mainstream at any level. I think the industry is moving backwards (ATI for ATI CROSSFIRE and NVIDIA for NVIDIA SLI) IMHO "Enthusiast" is just a glorified term for a person who likes being taken to the cleaners (more clearly likes blunt objects stuffed in their corn hole). I have a family (4 kids) so my needs or wants don't always comes first. Just because I am not running SLI does not mean I am not a computer hobbiest. I edit videos, images, run a family website, have raid 0 raptors and raid 1 for storage. I love tweaking and modding. SLI to me is not a good bang for the buck and anyone that calls themself an enthusiast just because they run SLI, play DOOM III and surf for porn is a MORON...again IMHO (-;

I don't call my self an enthusiast because I run SLI, I don't even have an SLI rig, I'm preparing for one. I call my self an enthusiast because I am. I love tweaking my computer. I'm into overclocking. I have a modded case. I upgrade at least once every 1.5 year (money reasons, not because i dont want it sooner).

I didn't say you have to have SLI to be an enthusiast. That would be moronic. I was mearly saying that SLI has gotten to a point where the enthusiast with a lower budget can look at it now. For less than $400CDN you can get into a dual 6600GT setup. Whereas, a 6800GT (a relative equivelant) would still run you at least that much. Pick up the 6600GTs spread over a couple months (such as myself), and it makes it way more affordable then 1 6800GT now, while still giving excellent gaming performance for the time being.
As long as you can live with no AA or AF in the newest games (q4, FEAR, etc) for a little while, this is something that should be considered.
Additionaly, 2 6600GTs should depriciate slower, leaving more cash for your next upgrade.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

the 6600GTs spread over a couple months (such as myself), and it makes it way more affordable then 1 6800GT now, while still giving excellent gaming performance for the time being.

Why? One 6800GT is faster, dual 6600s is worthless.
And now even a 6800GT or Ultra is worthless as the 7800GT is only what 50 to 100 dollars more?

 

[S[H]ady]

yeah my point too... by the way, silent PCs are mainstream, just not as dead silent as a silent oriented enthusiast's, but definatly more silent then a typical gaiming rig

Yes, and you typical user is not looking for a gaming rig. Personnaly, when i build a purpose built system, I always expect to have to sacrifice something. Maybe its just me, but when talking about a gaming rig, I'm not thinking of a silent PC. I expect all my hardware to be running hot, needing more fans, making more noise.
In a media center, sure silent would be nice, but i wouldn't be doing sli in a media center either.
Water cooling is on a whole other level, that is definately not attainable to the average person. Wether that person be an enthusiast or not, the sheer cost to get into it is staggering.

if you think that way, anything between intergrated and 6600GT is just useless...

No thats not true. For a casual gamer (someone that would never consider SLI), a 6600 NonGT or less would be fine. as for integrated. Great for buisness applications. or a word processer/web browser, but i would never recomment integrated to anyone else.
But for a GAMER, anything less than a 6600GT is foolish.

mainstream enthusiast... interesting concept really...

thats what i think of myself as...

gamers who can't afford to buy... who fall for the easy upgrade path joke... your narrowing down quite a bit...

I'm a gamer that can't afford a 7800Gts, hell i can't afford a 6800gt. what i can afford is a 6600gt. And after xmas I'll be able to afford an other one. I still wouldn't be able to afford the 7800gt. And if i had waited, i still wouldn't have my new computer.

what nvidia fails to precise is that by the time you can upgrade to a second card, the cards features will probably be outdated... you probably won't really want to buy into old technology as much... i could go on but i'm too tired

Not everyone demands the newest tech right away. I just upgraded from a 9600XT in september. Untill then, the card did everything I needed it to do. My 6600GT does everything I want now, except run with AA and AF in new games. I'll pick up a second 6600GT soon enough, and begin my AA and AF experience.
A 7800GT/GTS would be nice I admit, but the price will make me think twice. I can wait another year to get the newest shader model and such. Besides, how many games can use this tech right now? 5? maybe 8?

 

[jwallenfang]

Greetings all, I am seriously thinking about trading in my two 20" Samsung LCDs for a 26" Samsung LCD TV (LN-S2651D)... it is wide screen and, I think, a 4th generation LCD with a res of 1366 x 768 (something close to that anyways). I will connect the TV to my SLi (dual 7900GTs) rig via a HDMI to DVI connector. The TV has an advertised 8ms response time, although I cannot find any reviews that would give me the real deal on that or even the experience for that matter.

My question is really, do anyone have any real experience with SLi gaming on an LCD TV and more generally with computing on an LCD TV as your primary monitor? Any interpolation issues to worry about? I mean out of the normal expected issues.

 

[jwallenfang]

Oh, I forgot to ask about multi-monitor gaming and SLi configurations... I must have missed some information somewhere about why multi-monitor gaming is not possible while in SLi mode. Do others just game on a single monitor then and re-enable multi-monitor mode when back in desktop land?

 

[beanman101283]

I don't know the answer to your question, but you'd be better off starting a new thread than reviving this one that's 6 months old and has nothing to do with what you're asking.