Oblivion Revisited

[Blackstone]

Warning: opinions below.

I realized something last night and I just had to post on it.

It seems to me that Oblivion has some serious shortcomings that have kept me from enjoying both the original and the Shivering Isles expansion pack. My thesis is that this was almost a great game but it is borked in few ways. I am talking about the PC version of the game but this probably pertains to consoles as well.

What I would like to know is why this game is so highly regarded.

It seems to me that Oblivion is a game that is all dressed up with noplace to go. The world is enormous, yet each town and city looks pretty much the same. The voice acting is great, yet the same voices appear over and over again. I can't name a single character from Shivering isles--they are simply unmemorable.

The gameplay is open ended, perhaps to a fault. Last night I realized something. Everytime I get a new quest, I pretty much have no idea what I am supposed to do or where I am supposed to go next to complete it. In one quest for example I am supposed to interrogate townspeople to learn about a conspiracy. But after I find the person I am supposed to find, it is not clear what the next step is. I have to go into the quest screen to figure out what to do next (it tells me), or use the directional finder on the compas to lead me to the next objective. But there is really no way to proceed without the use of these two aids, despite the fact that the world is populated with people with actual voices and dialogue. But it seems like almost everything people have to say to me is some kind of useless red herring. Even the people who are supposed to be actually involved in a certain chain of events simply do not divulge enough information to be helpful. Am I playing the game wrong or something, or am I really supposed to just follow my map from one place to the next?

To figure out where to go next I have to go to the quest screen and it will say something like "So and so mentioned that person X knows something. I should speak to person X." Then person X appears on my map and my directional finder. But I could never figure out where to go just by talking to people. Everything people say is some sort of mumbo jumbo that leads me off on some kind of side quest or tangent. In other words, even the people that are supposed to have first hand knowledge that will help me are usually utterly unhelpful--except for the fact that after talking to them my map is updated. This really irks me.

Zelda on the other hand, does a great job of making the game feel open ended while at the same time sort of channeling you to the next objective, so you are constantly engaged in something. You aren't wandering around aimlessly looking for the next dungeon because you know the general direction and usually that is enough.

In Zelda, the first time I played it, one character said, more or less "it is north of the bridge of eden" and I knew exactly what she was talking about because the bridge is such a notable location. It is a giant stone bridge you can't miss it and you can't forget it. In Oblivion, if they said "it is north of the statue outside city x" I would have no frickin' idea where to go I'd have to use the map. The locations are simply not memorable and that makes the game harder. See what I am getting at? In Zelda every location is memorable--the desert, the forest, the lake, the bridge, the castle, the town, snowpeak, ect. In Oblivion you have a dozen cities, they are all the same, but they have different names.

Is Zelda a "dumbed down" RPG compared to Oblivion, or is Oblivion just more frusterating? I simply do not see the appeal of Oblivion. Is this game not maddeningly open ended and frusterating? Further, does anyone else think the characters and places in the game are simply unmemorable? Anyone want to defend Oblivion because I think it might be one of the most overrated videogames in history.

 

[Mr. Stryker]

For Oblivion fans and heavy Oblivion players, memorizing the locations are not an issue because I'll admit that I can memorize almost all of the locations of the shrines, cities, some dungeons, and where the guilds are. For you, you're probably more of a Zelda fan which is a good thing, that game was wonderful, but of course both of those games are almost completely different. When I first played Oblivion, I know what you meant- I didn't know squat of where to go, just mindlessly following the red arrow on the compass while encountering enemies on the way like Final Fantasy 7. Oblivion can be very frustrating, but it entirely depends on your preferences.

 

[dark_reign]

Your character writes stuff in his/her journal and the map gets updated to reflect what they are to do next. The game would be very difficult and extremely long if you had to find the locations on your own. But you can choose to just wander around in the game and loot every dungeon and cave. But that would be kind of boring and take the fun out of questing.

After doing a quest, I occasionally go into unexplored territory just for fun. Rather than fast travel back to a city, I'll walk back and discover new ruins, shrines, forts, etc.

Oblivion is whatever you want it to be. Questing and building up your character are essential to getting the most out of it. But there are other things you can do on the side to make it more fun or challenging. Try some of the many mods if you want more out of it.

 

[TheNuker]

To the OP, I totally agree. I felt and still feel the same way with Oblivion. It lacks immersion of the player with the game world. It's like whatever you do doesn't reflect on game, it's all about being a good citizen or a criminal in terms of relationship. The guilds are pretty much useless after you gain the highest rank on them since they have nothing else to offer other than trainers and some trade services. I once completed the mages guild quest... just to receive that chest that could multiply ingredients once a week. Of course I had access to all mages guild stuff, but later with the KOTN expansion there was that place on the mountains which I forgot the name that would offer you the same benefits without having to do all those annoying missions to even be able to enter the arcane university. I also agree that the regions are not memorable

Your character writes stuff in his/her journal and the map gets updated to reflect what they are to do next. The game would be very difficult and extremely long if you had to find the locations on your own. But you can choose to just wander around in the game and loot every dungeon and cave. But that would be kind of boring and take the fun out of questing.
.

What the OP means is that without those entries on your journal you wouldn't even remember where such places would be because they look all the same. Unless you memorize each place on Tamriel there's really isn't any place is memorable for what it means in the game world nor for being extremely different from other places that would ring a bell whenever you heard it's name. I tend to memorize every place on games (I kinda have a San Andreas map into my brain). I remember stuff on Oblivion just because I had to memorize it, not because It was somewhat distinct from other places or because important events took place there.

The only exception would be Kavatch because a battle took place there and it looked different from other cities (it was in ruins). It's like asking someone that lives in another country: "What do you know about New York", and someone would probably say: "Oh the Twin Towers that were attacked, the Empire States, the central park, etc etc....". Oblivion doesn't have such distinctions between places. Just look at the dungeons, they all look the same, some even have the same layout.

 

[dark_reign]

What the OP means is that without those entries on your journal you wouldn't even remember where such places would be because they look all the same. Unless you memorize each place on Tamriel there's really isn't any place is memorable for what it means in the game world nor for being extremely different from other places that would ring a bell whenever you heard it's name.

This is because the game is so massive that there isn't a reason to remember where everything is and what you did there. The sheer size of the game might just be too much for some people. But that's why the Journal exists if you care to go back there.

As for the cities, they all have a unique look to them and are memorable to me. Bruma is memorable because it's cold and snowy. Bravil is swampy. Chorrol has a huge forest area surrounding it. Imperial City is mostly stone.

Some of the bigger dungeons are also memorable as they pertain to certain quests that I found interesting. I don't see why one needs to remember some small cave where they had to kill someone to complete an easy quest.

 

[Silus]

Warning: opinions below.

I realized something last night and I just had to post on it.

It seems to me that Oblivion has some serious shortcomings that have kept me from enjoying both the original and the Shivering Isles expansion pack. My thesis is that this was almost a great game but it is borked in few ways. I am talking about the PC version of the game but this probably pertains to consoles as well.

What I would like to know is why this game is so highly regarded.

It seems to me that Oblivion is a game that is all dressed up with noplace to go. The world is enormous, yet each town and city looks pretty much the same. The voice acting is great, yet the same voices appear over and over again. I can't name a single character from Shivering isles--they are simply unmemorable.

The gameplay is open ended, perhaps to a fault. Last night I realized something. Everytime I get a new quest, I pretty much have no idea what I am supposed to do or where I am supposed to go next to complete it. In one quest for example I am supposed to interrogate townspeople to learn about a conspiracy. But after I find the person I am supposed to find, it is not clear what the next step is. I have to go into the quest screen to figure out what to do next (it tells me), or use the directional finder on the compas to lead me to the next objective. But there is really no way to proceed without the use of these two aids, despite the fact that the world is populated with people with actual voices and dialogue. But it seems like almost everything people have to say to me is some kind of useless red herring. Even the people who are supposed to be actually involved in a certain chain of events simply do not divulge enough information to be helpful. Am I playing the game wrong or something, or am I really supposed to just follow my map from one place to the next?

To figure out where to go next I have to go to the quest screen and it will say something like "So and so mentioned that person X knows something. I should speak to person X." Then person X appears on my map and my directional finder. But I could never figure out where to go just by talking to people. Everything people say is some sort of mumbo jumbo that leads me off on some kind of side quest or tangent. In other words, even the people that are supposed to have first hand knowledge that will help me are usually utterly unhelpful--except for the fact that after talking to them my map is updated. This really irks me.

Zelda on the other hand, does a great job of making the game feel open ended while at the same time sort of channeling you to the next objective, so you are constantly engaged in something. You aren't wandering around aimlessly looking for the next dungeon because you know the general direction and usually that is enough.

In Zelda, the first time I played it, one character said, more or less "it is north of the bridge of eden" and I knew exactly what she was talking about because the bridge is such a notable location. It is a giant stone bridge you can't miss it and you can't forget it. In Oblivion, if they said "it is north of the statue outside city x" I would have no frickin' idea where to go I'd have to use the map. The locations are simply not memorable and that makes the game harder. See what I am getting at? In Zelda every location is memorable--the desert, the forest, the lake, the bridge, the castle, the town, snowpeak, ect. In Oblivion you have a dozen cities, they are all the same, but they have different names.

Is Zelda a "dumbed down" RPG compared to Oblivion, or is Oblivion just more frusterating? I simply do not see the appeal of Oblivion. Is this game not maddeningly open ended and frusterating? Further, does anyone else think the characters and places in the game are simply unmemorable? Anyone want to defend Oblivion because I think it might be one of the most overrated videogames in history.

There are ways to proceed without the aid of those elements (journal and compass). Sometimes, along with the name of the NPC you have to look for, some information about that NPC's habits, are given. You can use that to track the NPC down, but it would take much, much longer. Remember that unlike Morrowind, NPCs have a "life", a routine, so at the time you're looking for them, they might not be in the same place. With a compass, your life is easier, but you don't need to use it.

About the people involved that are not really helpful, you're definitely not playing the game very well. You're not using your abilities to persuade people to give you information. This can be achieved by using your speechcraft ability or simply by bribing people to tell you what you want.

The fact that some voices are the same, well, remember that more than half the size of Oblivion's DVD, contains digitalized voices. Considering the amount of NPCs in the game, if you had a different voice and dialogue, for each of them, Oblivion would probably only fit in about 5 or 6 DVDs. Not to mention this would increase the cost of the game, since the production would also need to increase the amount of money reserved to pay all the voice actors.

Memorable characters. In Shivering isles, definitely Sheogorath. In Oblivion, besides Martin and Tiber Septim (of course), I would also pick the Gray Fox. I won't say why, because you need to finish the Thieves Guild quest line. There are other characters, which I remember because their story was interesting or simply tragic.

There's also the question of unmemorable places, which I really don't understand, since even though some places are very similar to others, namely dungeons, everything else is very unique. From the coast line, to the big forests, to the swamps, to the snowy peaks...I could go on a on. And cities, even though similar in the sense that they have churches and houses, etc etc, they are also very unique. Each has a different characteristic in the form of a popular store, architecture, drunken strangers in the street or simply a magic school that predominates.

In Oblivion you do what you want as you want. Even though you have a few things that can help you speed things up, you don't have to use them. The Compass and Fast Travel are definitely among those things.

 

[beanman101283]

I'm surprised that you don't know where to go when the game holds your hand so often during most quests. Most of the time all you need to do is follow the compass arrow and it'll take you right to your destination. I guess in this game you're supposed to use the compass and journal. Contrast this with the previous game, Morrowind. In that game, there was no compass marker. You just had to go off of the directions you were given and hope you didn't get lost. Sometimes a marker would be added to your map, but the majority of the time that didn't happen.

I've never thought of Zelda as an RPG. More of an action adventure game than anything else.

 

[so_cal_forever]

Personally, I like Oblivion because it's very fulfilling to play.

So I'm having a very ADD day and I can't stick to one story... Thats fine, I'll just go do some dungeon looting or random questing, Then, if I'm in the mood for something long, I can stick with some longer, more rewarding quests like upping my status in the guilds. Really, there's something for every mood I'm in.

To be completely honest, Shivering Isles is very much superior to the original in a few ways, the main story being the biggie. The main quest of Oblivion is scattered and unenjoyable at times, whereas the main quest for SI is coherent, direct, and rewarding (not to mention hilarious - Sheogorath is worth the price of admission alone!).

Really it appeals to more of the Diablo and Neverwinter Nights crowd who desire the kind of variety and non-linear questing that games like this have to offer. There's a main quest, but is that all you can do? Oh heck no. There's a lot of variety and fun to be had.

 

[Wally]

It's true. That's why there's half a million mods out there to make it acceptable.

 

[CodeX]

It seems to me that Oblivion is a game that is all dressed up with noplace to go. The world is enormous, yet each town and city looks pretty much the same.

I disagree, the world isn't that large compared to its predecessor, and the cities certainly do not all look the same. Each city has very unique architecture, look at burma and cheydenhall for example.

The voice acting is great, yet the same voices appear over and over again. I can't name a single character from Shivering isles--they are simply unmemorable.

okay, but, this has to be expected. There are thousands of NPC's in that game, they can't all have a unique voice, that would be an immense undertaking by the developers.

The gameplay is open ended, perhaps to a fault. Last night I realized something. Everytime I get a new quest, I pretty much have no idea what I am supposed to do or where I am supposed to go next to complete it

I feel the opposite. I think the game makes it far too easy by telling you exactly where you have to go for each quest by putting markers on your map. I wish they stuck with the style of morrowind where you actually had to think and explore.

Zelda on the other hand, does a great job of making the game feel open ended while at the same time sort of channeling you to the next objective, so you are constantly engaged in something. You aren't wandering around aimlessly looking for the next dungeon because you know the general direction and usually that is enough.

Zelda doesn't feel open ended at all to me, it feels like being led down a specific and very narrow path the entire time. Nothing can be down out of order, everything must be done in its given time... not that it was a bad game, just simply not open ended at all.

if they said "it is north of the statue outside city x" I would have no frickin' idea where to go I'd have to use the map. The locations are simply not memorable and that makes the game harder. See what I am getting at?

Not really, if it said north of city X I would explore north of city X until I found it... thats part of the fun of the game (if you don't use the quest markers anyways)

In Zelda every location is memorable--the desert, the forest, the lake, the bridge, the castle, the town, snowpeak, ect. In Oblivion you have a dozen cities, they are all the same, but they have different names.

Again, I don't agree with you about the cities being the same or the landscapes being the same...

Is Zelda a "dumbed down" RPG compared to Oblivion, or is Oblivion just more frusterating? I simply do not see the appeal of Oblivion. Is this game not maddeningly open ended and frusterating? Further, does anyone else think the characters and places in the game are simply unmemorable? Anyone want to defend Oblivion because I think it might be one of the most overrated videogames in history.

Zelda is not an RPG at all, it is an adventure game... It doesn't sound like RPG's are the types of games for you...

 

[Rabid Badger]

The cities all look the same? You're either blind or playing the wrong game. Each city has a distinct architectural style that makes it easy to distinguish from the others.

If you can't tell the difference between the wooden shacks in Bravil and the stone mansions in Skingrad then I imagine the game could get pretty confusing.

 

[dderidex]

It's odd, but I think a LOT of these complaints are due to things the developers specifically put IN the game to make it easier for n00bs to get into.

Specifically:

- All cities look the same. Well, if you use the 'fast travel' to ALWAYS get from one location to another...yeah, I can see that. If you never see any of the surrounding countryside, or haven't walked across a given city literally a hundred times to get from one building to another rather than always fast traveling...well, sure, all cities will look largely the same. Solution? Don't ever use fast travel! I mean, you compare to 'Zelda', which didn't have it, so...don't use it, here!

- Quest markers lead you by-the-nose through the story. Indeed, and this kinda sucks. I disabled the quest markers, and have to figure it out, myself. Some quests do take longer this way, but I guess I don't get the issue of not being able to figure out what to do next. Of course I *do* look at the map to get bearings and direction, but with no markers on it, it's only for an idea. I have sometimes found reading the journal entry is needed to 'figure out' the next step, but it's not a bad way to find it out, and without the quest marker to just lead me there, you still feel like you are figuring out the quest. And so finding some person's specific house in the Imperial City can take a while, as you go door to door to find out who lives where. So what? This is part of what makes the cities easily memorable, and once you've done it, the map is updated so you can just look up the addresses next time. And after always walking to each place (see point 1), you pretty rapidly find you don't even need the map any more.

 

[TheNuker]

I disagree, the world isn't that large compared to its predecessor, and the cities certainly do not all look the same. Each city has very unique architecture, look at burma and cheydenhall for example.

If architecture is the only difference on the cities they why not simply have the city with blue roofs and the city with orange roofs, because honestly besides that everything looks the same.

okay, but, this has to be expected. There are thousands of NPC's in that game, they can't all have a unique voice, that would be an immense undertaking by the developers.

Doesn't mean that every guard in every city must have the exact same voices and same dialogs with the exception of pointing different locations according to the city you are in.

I feel the opposite. I think the game makes it far too easy by telling you exactly where you have to go for each quest by putting markers on your map. I wish they stuck with the style of morrowind where you actually had to think and explore.

What he meant is that without the map it would be next to impossible to find anything because everything on the game looks the same and character dialogs are vague and meaningless. It's like "get that on location X and bring it back to me".

Zelda doesn't feel open ended at all to me, it feels like being led down a specific and very narrow path the entire time. Nothing can be down out of order, everything must be done in its given time... not that it was a bad game, just simply not open ended at all.

Haven't tried Zelda to argue about that but a linear game can have more choices than open ended games if done right. You can have an open ended game with freedom to do whatever you want but nothing of it actually matters since it doesn't change anything. Yet on some linear games at least you can change the course of the entire game based on choices you made.

Again, I don't agree with you about the cities being the same or the landscapes being the same...

Sorry I don't agree with you. The cities do look the same and terrain is basically equal everywhere without distinct geographical characteristics besides a bit different trees here and there and some cities in a bit more/less elevated terrains.

Zelda is not an RPG at all, it is an adventure game... It doesn't sound like RPG's are the types of games for you...

Or perhaps you got the idea wrong about what an RPG is. Oblivion is more of a sandbox type of game where you do whatever you want but 90% of it relies on combat. It doesn't affect anything in the game world whether you roleplay or powerplay. You cannot join any factions that have significant impact (or any) in the game. You cannot join the baddies and spread fear among the cities. You either play as a thug that slain guards and citizens or as the Paladin Pure of Heart that kill beasts and close Oblivion gates, which btw are all the same. Oblivion is actually classified as an "action rpg" and even purely an action game by many of it's avid players and some reviewers since, well, it's what this game is mostly about.

I would rather play a linear RPG with predefined events and limited but actual freedom, with an actual plot and atmosphere behind it. Oblivion is like a medieval San Andreas with weaker plot, no sence of humor and more complex yet inefficient character development since levels don't matter much because of level scaling. Yes mods fix this, but it's something so obvious that it shouldn't be in the game in the first place. Having mods to change negative aspects of the game (many btw) is a different thing than having mods to enhance gameplay to your liking.

 

[Blackstone]

I'm not sure I'm doing a good job of making my point. My point is that, there are thousands of NPCs, but none of them really advance the story or aid in your quest. They are more like waypoints than actual characters.

What I'm trying to say is that, I understand why there is a compass and a journal, but I don't understand why I should have to consult the journal to find out what the next step is. I complete one task and then I have no clue what to do next. Interrogating the NPCs almost never helps, it is only when I go no the journal or look at the compass that I can figure out what to do next because the journal will say "I should return to X" or "I should speak to Y". But the narrative that plays out through the dialogue that you have with the NPCs almost never by itself is enough to give me a clear idea of what the next step is. Too often I am asking myself, am I done with this guy? Am I done here? Do I keep talking to this guy?

There is just too much going on and none of it is very interesting, in my opinion.

I think it has to do with poor writing. There are so many cities and so many taverns and so many unnotable characters that they have to lead you around with a compass from one place to next.

By the way: I really like the combat system and that is part of the problem. I always want get into some thick battle but it seems like I can never find the action. Does the expansion get better? Right now I am on the quest the Dutchess of Dementia gave me--the conspiracy one.

 

[dderidex]

I'm not sure the alternative would be better, though. AI with realistic dialog?

I mean, look out your window at a major metro area. Thousands of people walking by on the street. How many of them are relevant to your daily tasks? Sure, you could pick any one of them and strike up a conversation - with varying degrees of success - but the randomness....

Would you REALLY want the game like that? Not only would there be millions of times more dialog to record, but if you were confused now, wow...what then?

As to the 'quest' characters not giving you clear direction...I dunno. It happens now and then, but I can't think (off the top of my head) of any examples where I couldn't tell what to do from what the character told me. As I'd mentioned, I know I *have* looked at the journal before to figure out what to do, but only rarely. Usually conversation does it.

Do you have any specific examples of dialog that caused you trouble?

 

[Mr. Stryker]

There is no right or wrong.

 

[Nytegard]

Oblivion is not everyone's cup of tea. What you hated about Oblivion and liked about Zelda, other people such as myself liked in Oblivion and hated in Zelda. (Not that I liked Oblivion to be honest. Redguard is the only Elderscrolls game I've played and liked, having played Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Battlespire, and Oblivion).

Now, forget which genre each game falls into. There's usually an overall difference between PC style RPGs and console style RPGs. PC RPGs usually leave the choices up to the player and are openended, and focus more upon gameplay than story, whereas consoles are reverse.

In the Elder Scrolls, Wizardries, Ultimas, Might and Magics, etc, you can go anywhere any time you feel like it pretty much. Sometimes that includes the last dungeon at the very beginning of the game (if you trully felt like committing suicide.) Everything is open right from the beginning.

Console RPGs tend to be more linear. You can't go to town B until you've completed town A. Same with the dungeons. You're always conveniently missing an item which prevents progression for the explorers amongst us.

You're right though in the fact that PC RPGs tend to be a little less forgiving in where to go next. Many PC RPGs literally start you off with absolutely no objective. It's your task to figure out what you're suppose to do. Exploration is part of the experience. They don't tell you exactly where the person is, because part of the challenge of the game is finding the person. At most, usually you'll have a subtle hint about what to do next, but due to the non linear explorative nature of the game, you're not going to be forced to go north to the Temple of Doom or whatever your next objective should be.

The PC RPG the player leads the game, whereas in the Console RPG, the game leads the player. It comes down to a matter of taste in the end. If you don't like Oblivion, most likely you won't like other PC RPGs, including the rest of the Elder Scrolls games (particularly Daggerfall. My gawd, Daggerfall makes Oblivion and Morrowind play like you're following a rigid line).

 

[Blackstone]

I'm not sure the alternative would be better, though. AI with realistic dialog?

I mean, look out your window at a major metro area. Thousands of people walking by on the street. How many of them are relevant to your daily tasks? Sure, you could pick any one of them and strike up a conversation - with varying degrees of success - but the randomness....

Would you REALLY want the game like that? Not only would there be millions of times more dialog to record, but if you were confused now, wow...what then?

As to the 'quest' characters not giving you clear direction...I dunno. It happens now and then, but I can't think (off the top of my head) of any examples where I couldn't tell what to do from what the character told me. As I'd mentioned, I know I *have* looked at the journal before to figure out what to do, but only rarely. Usually conversation does it.

Do you have any specific examples of dialog that caused you trouble?

I dunno it just seems like there is never any payoff for running these quests. I talk to people and talk to people and talk to people and then at best I wind up in some cookie cutter dungeon with some critters that I can mow down with ease. It is just one waypoint to the next to next to the next. I dunno I wish someone would do something interesting with the engine.

I guess it is a matter of preference. I can see why people like the game--I keep trying to like it but I just find the whole thing to be just a little bland. After the variety of gameplay included in Zelda, the insane characters and locations, and the dungeons and items I just don't get how so many review sites pegged Oblivion as game of the year.

 

[dderidex]

*shrugs*

I think you may just be judging the 'fluff quests' too harshly. There are probably 10 times as many of these 'fluff quests' in the game as there are 'story arc' quests - just to fill in the gaps, give you other things to do, give a feeling of 'life' to the world, etc.

If you stick to the 'story arc' quests - Dark Brotherhood, Fighter's Guild, Thieves Guild, etc - you tend to find a lot more....interesting things going on. Especially with the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, there are definitely some quests VERY different from the bog-standard "clean out 'x' dungeon". If you get the 'Knights of the Nine' expansion, too, it really adds a fantastic new story arc.

Again, I'd have to recommend, though:
- It's an RPG, make an effort to 'role play' the character. A noble knight should act...noble, and stuff. Playing through the game never stealing a single item, attacking a single innocent person, never striking first, etc....can be quite a refreshing challenge.
- Never fast travel. Seriously. It's a concession to the A.D.D. crowd in a game that even with it will never appeal to that crowd. It utterly ruins the game, it really does. Just say 'NO'!

 

[CodeX]

If architecture is the only difference on the cities they why not simply have the city with blue roofs and the city with orange roofs, because honestly besides that everything looks the same.

Because its not a freaking cartoon... why would buildings have flamboyant colors?



Are you blind or did you just forget...

Or perhaps you got the idea wrong about what an RPG is... blah blah blah

Zelda is not an RPG, Oblivion is... I don't see the point of the rest of that rant. If you want me to define what an RPG is I will in a future reply using sources...

 

[Blackstone]

Because its not a freaking cartoon... why would buildings have flamboyant colors?



Are you blind or did you just forget...



Zelda is not an RPG, Oblivion is... I don't see the point of the rest of that rant. If you want me to define what an RPG is I will in a future reply using sources...

What genre it is has nothing to do with my critique. The entire game is filled with totally mindless babble and boring, stupid gimmicks. The "torture chamber" in Shivering Isles, it is the same crappy sequence as the resonator of judgmenet sequence--boring robotic NPC pushes a switch and cheesy lightening effect zaps another character I just met and don't really care about.

 

[J Macker]

When I first played Oblivion, I know what you meant- I didn't know squat of where to go, just mindlessly following the red arrow on the compass while encountering enemies on the way like Final Fantasy 7. Oblivion can be very frustrating, but it entirely depends on your preferences.

Ditto. I still haven't touched it since I got stuck. Didn't even close the first gate. I need to install it again once school's over.

 

[TheNuker]

Zelda is not an RPG, Oblivion also isn't... I don't see the point of the rest of that rant. If you want me to define what an RPG is I will in a future reply using sources...

Fixed.

 

[CodeX]

This game sucks.

Oblivion record sales numbers...

ranked in the 9.5 range of every major review site...

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, or Oblivion, is an award winning[2] fantasy-themed action oriented [size=+2]role playing game[/size] developed by Bethesda Softworks LLC

Critical reaction to the English version of Oblivion was almost entirely positive. Oblivion holds an [size=+2]average review score of 94%[/size] for the Xbox 360, making it the [size=+2]2nd highest rated game of 2006[/size] and the [size=+2]highest rated Xbox 360 game released to date[/size],[70] 93% for the PC, making it the 5th highest rated game of 2006, and 93% for the PS3 version, making it [size=+2]the highest rated game overall for the PS3[/size];

Everyone has an opinion... but when you disagree with the vast majority of the population...

 

[Mr. Stryker]

Oblivion record sales numbers...

ranked in the 9.5 range of every major review site...\



Everyone has an opinion... but when you disagree with the vast majority of the population...

CodeX could go on and on all day if you wanted him to.

This game sucks.

Ok, you've made your own point. Close the thread then

 

[Blackstone]

Well like I said it is just my opinion. I was just wondering if anyone else had the same take on it. I guess I just don't "get it" or something. Oh well.

 

[Endurancevm]

Oblivion sucks, end of conversation.

The game is so repetetive and so mind-numbingly dull and idiotic, that I almost feel as though I have misplaced brain cells, time and dignitiy while playing it.

The game has no point, no story, no epic-feel, no replay value and most of all...no charecter or uniqueness. The game is just standard, run-of-the-mill medeival sword slashy and magic thrashy garbage.

I felt guilty and ashamed playing this game. I sit there, I look at a photo of a female and think to myself "hmm, sitting here and playing this pointless junk wont get me very far". Then i decide to get up off my ass and play some basketball with friends, in real life.

To end my rant, I am sick of RPGs. I am sick of people playing RPGs. I am sick of stupid swords and armor bullshit. I hope the developers of this game burn in hell, where Oblivion is the game of choice.

 

[CodeX]

Oblivion sucks, end of conversation.

The game is so repetetive and so mind-numbingly dull and idiotic, that I almost feel as though I have misplaced brain cells, time and dignitiy while playing it.

The game has no point, no story, no epic-feel, no replay value and most of all...no charecter or uniqueness. The game is just standard, run-of-the-mill medeival sword slashy and magic thrashy garbage.

I felt guilty and ashamed playing this game. I sit there, I look at a photo of a female and think to myself "hmm, sitting here and playing this pointless junk wont get me very far". Then i decide to get up off my ass and play some basketball with friends, in real life.

To end my rant, I am sick of RPGs. I am sick of people playing RPGs. I am sick of stupid swords and armor bullshit. I hope the developers of this game burn in hell, where Oblivion is the game of choice.

Are you 12 years old? So because you go and play basketball with friends you are better than people who play games? First, most of us have lifes, I have a girlfriend I have been with for 4 years now and we do all kinds of stuff together. I go to bars and clubs and hang out with friends like everyone else, this is the gaming forum, if you aren't here to talk about games then get out.

 

[Endurancevm]

Are you 12 years old?

No, are you? Because it seems that only children live in fantasy worlds...like Oblivion.

 

[dderidex]

Are you 12 years old?

Ah, give him a little credit. He's discovered girls exist. He's at least 16. But clearly less than 30. At that point, all your choices in life are made, so it's pretty much only RPGs that let you experiment again.

 

[Endurancevm]

Ah, give him a little credit. He's discovered girls exist. He's at least 16. But clearly less than 30. At that point, all your choices in life are made, so it's pretty much only RPGs that let you experiment again.

You know, people that defend RPGs usually have no real life. If you think about this logically, once one is married they have obligations. They have whiney, stupid children, whiney, stupid, bitchy wives and a job. The man has no time left and may only redeem his entertainment minutes playing a fantasy world without caring about anything or anybody.

I honestly don't care if you make fun of me, call me a little boy or assume that I have not hit puberty for some reason. The fact of the matter is, Oblivion and all RPGs like it suck big, fat, hairy, Sasha Baron Cohen balls.

And just for clarification, I attend University of Michigan and am studying finance. I am obviously older than 16 and precisely 18. I enjoy cars, sports and computers.

 

[CodeX]

You know, people that defend RPGs usually have no real life. If you think about this logically, once one is married they have obligations. They have whiney, stupid children, whiney, stupid, bitchy wives and a job. The man has no time left and may only redeem his entertainment minutes playing a fantasy world without caring about anything or anybody.

I honestly don't care if you make fun of me, call me a little boy or assume that I have not hit puberty for some reason. The fact of the matter is, Oblivion and all RPGs like it suck big, fat, hairy, Sasha Baron Cohen balls.

And just for clarification, I attend University of Michigan and am studying finance. I am obviously older than 16 and precisely 18.

You are the essence of maturity as well... if this was my forum I would ban you for acting like a 5 year old

And for clarification, I am a 24 year old masters student in computer science.

 

[dderidex]

You know, people that defend RPGs usually have no real life. If you think about this logically, once one is married they have obligations. They have whiney, stupid children, whiney, stupid, bitchy wives and a job. The man has no time left and may only redeem his entertainment minutes playing a fantasy world without caring about anything or anybody.

I honestly don't care if you make fun of me, call me a little boy or assume that I have not hit puberty for some reason. The fact of the matter is, Oblivion and all RPGs like it suck big, fat, hairy, Sasha Baron Cohen balls.

And just for clarification, I attend University of Michigan and am studying finance. I am obviously older than 16 and precisely 18.

Hey, all I'm sayin is...less than 30. RE: "obligations", I have no kids (personal choice), but the wife and job is largely a valid observation. You'd be surprised how little time that actually consumes, though, which leaves you with hours each afternoon....you can do precisely nothing with. Unless you are the type who plans on cheating on your wife or something, odds are very good you will find yourself with many tens of thousands of hours in your adult life that the ability to escape into an RPG will seem very attractive to you.

Bit of advice, though, as I'm at it. Mostly because I wish someone had mentioned this to me. From 0-18, you really have few choices in life. Reality doesn't give much to children, and your parents dictate a lot of this period. More than you realize, but you will eventually. Big gotcha, though, is that you have to start making decisions on your own at 18. Many of them. Rapidly. And by 30...you've pretty much made all of them. It's like you are level 50 in a level 60-capped RPG. Sure, you've got some minor tweaking you can do here and there, but, at 30, basically, all the major decisions that will effect the rest of your life are already made. So...for the next 12 years...do choose carefully.

(And, FWIW RE: your edit, I'm about 30, in good shape, with a quite clear complexion, have a great job and decent wife, and...can do exactly nothing really new or exciting from this point on that varies in any substantial way from the plan I've laid out for the future over the past few years. I should add that this is not necessarily a BAD thing...just limiting. RPGs are thus an amusing escape from reality and an otherwise locked-down plan.)

 

[Endurancevm]

You are the essence of maturity as well... if this was my forum I would ban you for acting like a 5 year old

And for clarification, I am a 24 year old masters student in computer science.

I am acting like a 5 year old? I merely stated my opinion about a game and you had to get all pissy and call me a 12 year old. I did not personally offend you, but offended the game and it's developers. Next time, take criticism a little lighter, you might live longer with less stress.

Hey, all I'm sayin is...less than 30. RE: "obligations", I have no kids (personal choice), but the wife and job is largely a valid observation. You'd be surprised how little time that actually consumes, though, which leaves you with hours each afternoon....you can do precisely nothing with. Unless you are the type who plans on cheating on your wife or something, odds are very good you will find yourself with many tens of thousands of hours in your adult life that the ability to escape into an RPG will seem very attractive to you.

Bit of advice, though, as I'm at it. Mostly because I wish someone had mentioned this to me. From 0-18, you really have few choices in life. Reality doesn't give much to children, and your parents dictate a lot of this period. More than you realize, but you will eventually. Big gotcha, though, is that you have to start making decisions on your own at 18. Many of them. Rapidly. And by 30...you've pretty much made all of them. It's like you are level 50 in a level 60-capped RPG. Sure, you've got some minor tweaking you can do here and there, but, at 30, basically, all the major decisions that will effect the rest of your life are already made. So...for the next 12 years...do choose carefully.

(And, FWIW RE: your edit, I'm about 30, in good shape, with a quite clear complexion, have a great job and decent wife, and...can do exactly nothing really new or exciting from this point on that varies in any substantial way from the plan I've laid out for the future over the past few years.)

Personally as I see it, I have no reason to get married anytime within the next...oh, say, 20 years? I have a decent job(no burger flipping), I attend a good college and find life pretty nice. To me RPGs are not appealing as I find them pointless. I would much rather sit down and play a nice co-op game of GOW, or some Forza2.

I understand that some people find ways to stay fit, but if you look at the stereotypical RPG player(not entirely general games, Megan Fox plays on her xbox360 would be one of many exceptions) they are all portrayed as usually fat, living alone and dedicating 3/4 of their lives to levelling up. If you keep in shape thats a good thing. My dad, hes 47 and goes to the gym every chance he gets to keep in shape.

Seeing any girls and being happy with a fat self is impossible. Therefore the sexual drive is what keeps men in shape and RPGs is what holds them back. That is just how i see it.

 

[CodeX]

I am acting like a 5 year old? I merely stated my opinion about a game and you had to get all pissy and call me a 12 year old. I did not personally offend you, but offended the game and it's developers. Next time, take criticism a little lighter, you might live longer with less stress.

The real problem was, you didn't back up anything you where saying. Your post was full of opinion with no substance, it was flame bait. When I debate things on this forum, it is just that, a debate. I back up everything I say with fact and evidence and try not to rely solely on opinion. I do not say things like "suck big, fat, hairy, Sasha Baron Cohen balls" because that weakens my argument and makes me sound like a child... Take notes... If you want people to take you seriously then present yourself in a respectable manner.

To be honest, I had you pretty well read in my mind after reading your post, I figured you where in the 16-18 range (sure I said 12 but thas meant to be an insult). I will not take you seriously because of the way you have already presented yourself. To me you are a whiney, immature, adolescent little kid who is not worth paying attention to

 

[Endurancevm]

The real problem was, you didn't back up anything you where saying. Your post was full of opinion with no substance, it was flame bait. When I debate things on this forum, it is just that, a debate. I back up everything I say with fact and evidence and try not to rely solely on opinion. I do not say things like "suck big, fat, hairy, Sasha Baron Cohen balls" because that weakens my argument and makes me sound like a child... Take notes... If you want people to take you seriously then present yourself in a respectable manner.

To be honest, I had you pretty well read in my mind after reading your post, I figured you where in the 16-18 range (sure I said 12 but thas meant to be an insult). I will not take you seriously because of the way you have already presented yourself. To me you are a whiney, immature, adolescent little kid who is not worth paying attention to

Right, and you are a 24 year old grumpy, angry, unhappy and Dustin Diamond person. I peg you as being identical to the way Dustin Diamond is on that show, Celeberty Fit Club. He is arrogant, self-absorbed and very mean spirited.

I guess saying the game is repetitive(as in you do the same thing over and over again), magic slinging and sword fighting(thats where you put your pinky out, yell "abra kadabra" and pray for some sort of magic poof) wasnt enough to prove an argument.

It doesn't matter how you spin it, i did present an argument. You just didnt want to pay attention to it because you were too busy contemplating a response(notice how i did not use the word, rebuttal) to why the game is 1337.

 

[CodeX]

Right, and you are a 24 year old grumpy, angry, unhappy and Dustin Diamond person. I peg you as being identical to the way Dustin Diamond is on that show, Celeberty Fit Club. He is arrogant, self-absorbed and very mean spirited.

I live with my girlfriend of 4 years in my own apartment. I have my own company that does subcontracting for computer repair shops in the area. I go to school (not during the summer of course) and do very well. I work at Target part time during the summer for some extra cash. This is me and the girlfriend:

I have a fair number of friends from both school and work and hang out with them like "normal" people. I am certaintly not the "stereotypical" RPG player that you described, and disagree with that very assertion. Anything else you would like to know about me?

I guess saying the game is repetitive(as in you do the same thing over and over again), magic slinging and sword fighting(thats where you put your pinky out, yell "abra kadabra" and pray for some sort of magic poof) wasnt enough to prove an argument.

Best selling game to date on both the 360 and PS3, 5th best selling game on PC... that speaks for itself no matter what you say.

 

[Endurancevm]

I live with my girlfriend of 4 years in my own apartment. I have my own company that does subcontracting for computer repair shops in the area. I go to school (not during the summer of course) and do very well. I work at Target part time during the summer for some extra cash. This is me and the girlfriend:

I have a fair number of friends from both school and work and hang out with them like "normal" people. I am certaintly not the "stereotypical" RPG player that you described, and disagree with that very assertion. Anything else you would like to know about me?



Best selling game to date on both the 360 and PS3, 5th best selling game on PC... that speaks for itself no matter what you say.

I need your social security #, date of birth, traffic violations and blood type. I may also need your finger prints, your dog's stool sample(if you have one) and your female next of kin's bra size.

I don't need to see a picture of your girlfriend, if you are happy with what you have, what reason to parade it? I noticed that you are very deffensive as well. I don't care that you work at Target(I work at Plasma Laser Technologies programming robots and welding cell R&D). I don't care what your personality is like as there is no way to verify that. You enjoy what you have and quit parading it.

Aslo, me and my friends all agree(and this is unanimous) that all RPGs suck. I am not ignorant, I played the stupid, steaming pile of cow manure. And I can safely say that if majority of the population was carving out their necks with a knife, I wouldnt join them. Just because everyone does it/like it does not make it good.

 

[CodeX]

I don't need to see a picture of your girlfriend, if you are happy with what you have, what reason to parade it? I don't care what your personality is like as there is no way to verify that. You enjoy what you have and quit parading it.

Like you said it is hard to prove personality online, it is a merely a means to do so as best as possible.

I noticed that you are very deffensive as well. I don't care that you work at Target(I work at Plasma Laser Technologies programming robots and welding cell R&D).

I work primarily for Hollman Computer Services LLC. Which I own...

Aslo, me and my friends all agree(and this is unanimous) that all RPGs suck. I am not ignorant, I played the stupid, steaming pile of cow manure. And I can safely say that if majority of the population was carving out their necks with a knife, I wouldnt join them. Just because everyone does it/like it does not make it good.

Tell me what you think of the Wii... People your age are mindless drones trying to fit in and be cool. If something isn't considered "cool" by your peers you will shun it regardless of your own opinion. I have seen it a thousand times.

 

[Blackstone]

Oh no is this really happening? Did my thread turn into a discussion of marriage, jobs, and relationships.

Well, I happen to be a 26 year old professional student at another big-10 school and I'll never give up my videogames, EVER! Muahaha.

I personally reject the notion that video games are a waste of time simply because they do not involve socializing and mating. By that standard, listening to classical music, studying art or music, writing, and other non social persuits are also a waste of time. Videogames are part of our culture. Further gamers are a subculture, almost a counterculture in someways. If you play videogames you might have less time for other things, you might miss out on other things, but I feel sorry for people who are incapable of appreciating a good videogame or computer game. I feel even worse for people that miss out solely because they want to conform to the mainstream culture.

When you give up games because they don't get you girls, that is the first stage of living a life where your girlfriend/wife is telling you what you can do is when. Kudos.

I have a lot more respect for someone who says to hell with it all and does exactly what they want to do, when they want to do it, and lets the rest of the world chew on it. That is called being secure.

This thread is about the merits of a particular game. Whether videogames in general or the RPG/Fantasy genre are worth spending time on is implied. YES.

Update: I posted this before seeing that pictures of girlfriends are being posted. Oh my god make it stop kill this thread please before I kill myself. lol