Oblivion's shadows have been castrated...

[sabrewolf732]

come back to me when you achieve 22GBps in siftsoft sandra memory bandwith test, just because its slow for a GPU which otherwise already has highbandwith usuage processes under control anyway its still way faster then your average DDR system ram, xbox360 CPU is not bad for gameing, its raw power no little bells and whistles to make it easyier to harness on devs who all want a A64 in the consoles so they can port without loseing money and console owners can have POS titles

ps2 has proven ram on pc does not equal consoles....next time your running 4mb of video ram and playing GTA on your pc as well as a ps2 does with that little bit of memory come back to me a again and i will surender to your greatness

GTA also looks like shit. And, the xbox 360 cpu is horrible for gaming, it's not OOO which is extremely important for good gaming performance, devs have already stated they'd rather have an a64 or p4 as they're more powerful. Look at it from a technological standpoint, the 360 is inferior to x86 processors for gaming. I can actually get proof of this if you want

 

[lethial]

I for one will be happy if the game just come out soon... (by soon I don't mean the Soon (tm) of Blizzard Entertainment... I mean early march 2006)
There has been a lack of good RPGs lately...

 

[K600]

GTA also looks like shit. And, the xbox 360 cpu is horrible for gaming, it's not OOO which is extremely important for good gaming performance, devs have already stated they'd rather have an a64 or p4 as they're more powerful. Look at it from a technological standpoint, the 360 is inferior to x86 processors for gaming. I can actually get proof of this if you want

Yet you completely failed to address the superb performance that some titles are getting out of that "horrible" CPU

 

[sabrewolf732]

Yet you completely failed to address the superb performance that some titles are getting out of that "horrible" CPU

I'm talking from a technological standpoint. Those games HAVE NOT been released on the pc, so you can't use them as referance. If they were, it's rather obvious that a
x2 and x1900xt will play the game better than the x360. The x2 is simply more powerful than the 360's cpu. Do you know what OOO is?

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=5

 

[Tetrahedron]

I'm talking from a technological standpoint. Those games HAVE NOT been released on the pc, so you can't use them as referance. If they were, it's rather obvious that a
x2 and x1900xt will play the game better than the x360. The x2 is simply more powerful than the 360's cpu. Do you know what OOO is?

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=5

its the price versus performance ratio

how much is the x360?
how much is an X2? plus how much more do you need to spend to get it up and running considering you dont have an other computer parts?

im pretty certain with enough money, I could get a computer system that will blow away any X2 consumer PC you can buy. Like some sort of supercomputer or something. Yeah it might not play games... but it seems to me you are talking about pure performance power... that doesnt always translate into better.


so yes the x360 price versus performance ratio is unsurpassed at the moment. deal with it.

 

[sabrewolf732]

its the price versus performance ratio

how much is the x360?
how much is an X2? plus how much more do you need to spend to get it up and running considering you dont have an other computer parts?

im pretty certain with enough money, I could get a computer system that will blow away any X2 consumer PC you can buy. Like some sort of supercomputer or something. Yeah it might not play games... but it seems to me you are talking about pure performance power... that doesnt always translate into better.


so yes the x360 price versus performance ratio is unsurpassed at the moment. deal with it.

When did I say it wasn't? All I said was from a hardware stanpoint pc's are several times more powerful than the xbox360. In fact, I can build a more powerful system for around $1000-$1100. Also, add into the fact that you can do SEVERAL more things with a pc vs a xbox360. But read my posts, I never said anything about price ratio I was arguing with the people saying 360 > pc.

 

[paranoia4422]

When did I say it wasn't? All I said was from a hardware stanpoint pc's are several times more powerful than the xbox360. In fact, I can build a more powerful system for around $1000-$1100. Also, add into the fact that you can do SEVERAL more things with a pc vs a xbox360. But read my posts, I never said anything about price ratio I was arguing with the people saying 360 > pc.

OOO is only important when a dev wants a straight shitty port...well good i say fuck them there not gonna make a lackluster port, and in-order instruction doesnt mean bad, wow devs need to run code through a compiler in the XNA boohoo, and even matter less since both the cell and xbox360 cpu are highly parallel processors, 360 being able to handle 6 threads and the cell 7, and the xbox was the first out of order console anyway so quite your bitching devolopers its not like you havent done in order with the ps2 and gc


from a technical standpoint if a game was coded from the ground up for the xbox360 cpu it would mow down any pc cpu preformence that has to be generalized for all processors, if the xbox360 can handle things like RAI before its even 6months out of its infancy does that really mean the cpu is a pos? guess not since its handleing havok at the same time

 

[sabrewolf732]

OOO is only important when a dev wants a straight shitty port...well good i say fuck them there not gonna make a lackluster port, and in-order instruction doesnt mean bad, wow devs need to run code through a compiler in the XNA boohoo, and even matter less since both the cell and xbox360 cpu are highly parallel processors, 360 being able to handle 6 threads and the cell 7, and the xbox was the first out of order console anyway so quite your bitching devolopers its not like you havent done in order with the ps2 and gc


from a technical standpoint if a game was coded from the ground up for the xbox360 cpu it would mow down any pc cpu preformence that has to be generalized for all processors, if the xbox360 can handle things like RAI before its even 6months out of its infancy does that really mean the cpu is a pos? guess not since its handleing havok at the same time

dude read the link, the x360 is inferior compared to x86 processors Out of order is superior to in order. And I didn't say ANYTHING about any other console. You're just pulling things out of thin air now.

 

[paranoia4422]

Both will perform absolutely much slower than even mainstream desktop processors in single threaded game code

with a bit of optimization and running multi-threaded game engines, these collections of simple in-order cores should be able to put out some fairly good performance.

However, with a properly designed ISA and a good compiler, having an in-order core to work on is not the end of the world. The performance you lose by not being able to extract the last bit of instruction level parallelism is made up by the fact that you can execute far more threads per clock thanks to the simplicity of the in-order cores allowing more to be packed on a die. Unfortunately, as we’ve already discussed, on day one that’s not going to be much of an advantage.

day one no its not gonna preform good, but id much rather devs programming 3 3.2ghz PPC cores in 2008 instead of a lowly ~3000+a64 which is about what youd get for the cost of the PPC

Remember that consoles must have a lifespan of around 5 years, so even if the multithreaded transition isn’t going to happen with games for another 2 years, it is necessary for these consoles to be built around multi-core processors to support the ecosystem when that transition occurs.

Xbox 360’s Xenon CPU or the single general purpose PPE in Cell are extremely weak cores, far slower than a Pentium 4 or Athlon 64, even running at much lower clock speeds.

these arent processors that your going to be doing general purpose computing on, and they will be able to run things much better designed for them in 4 years then a same priced amd64 ever could

The majority of developers are doing things no differently than they have been on the PC. A single thread is used for all game code, physics and AI and in some cases, developers have split out physics into a separate thread, but for the most part you can expect all first generation and even some second generation titles to debut as basically single threaded games. The move to two hardware execution threads may in fact only be an attempt to bring performance up to par with what can be done on mid-range or high-end PCs today, since a single thread running on Xenon isn’t going to be very competitive performance wise, especially executing code that is particularly well suited to OoO desktop processors.

to me that says again its not gonna be blazing fast at first but consoles are about optimizeation, again GTA may look like shit on ps2 but ill be damned if your fucking 4mb vram computer could ever process it....even with 1 processor at that


and again....how importan are cpus in gaming anyway? not very, we see the celeron in xbox running half life 2 and halo2's havok phyics just fine

 

[Tetrahedron]

i guess people who own high-end PCs to play games... know more than a multi-billion dollar company like MS.

all i know is i have a AMD64 3700, 2GB of Ram and a 6800... which I plan to upgrade soon here, but i also have a x360 and i like em both, each have there pros and cons and right now for straight gamin purposes i would choose a x360, but I still would consider myself a PC gamer since I play more games on my PC than on a console, but consoles do have a superioity over PCs... that I paid 400 dollars and this small investment will last several years and i have to upgrade my PC yearly to keep up.

sabrewolf -

could you please give me spec sheet of a PC costing 1000-1100 dollars that will blow to doors off an x360.. im sorta curious on how on does that with that price figure... thanks

 

[K600]

I'm talking from a technological standpoint. Those games HAVE NOT been released on the pc, so you can't use them as referance.

And yet, Call of Duty 2 has, and it runs just as smoothly (If not moreso) on the X360 as it does on PCs.

Everyone here is tired of seeing this argument over and over again across the internet. Give it a rest.

 

[sabrewolf732]

And yet, Call of Duty 2 has, and it runs just as smoothly (If not moreso) on the X360 as it does on PCs.

Everyone here is tired of seeing this argument over and over again across the internet. Give it a rest.

call of duty 2 runs better on the 360 than a pc?
http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/radeon-x1900xtx-gameperformance/cod_pure.gif

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/radeon-x1900xtx-gameperformance/cod_candy.gif

Not to mention xfire will skew the results even more. Also, for $1100 I specced out a x2 3800+ and x1900xt system the other day. Ill email you the config if you want from newegg.

 

[K600]

Averages don't interest me in the least. I said it ran just as smoothly. Random hitching and stuttering during gameplay aren't reflected accurately in charts like that. One instance of hitching during intense action is enough to make me not want to play. I'd rather have a steady, but lower framerate than have it jump from 100 to 20 to 50 to 30, depending on the action on screen. On top of that, would you care to inform us of the amount of people who actually own 7800GT cards and higher in comparison to those who don't?

Again; you're baiting and re-starting an argument that has been done a million times. Give it a fucking rest. Nobody cares whether or not a high-end PC is more powerful than the Xbox 360.

X2 3800: $300

X1900XT: $500

Realization that you're spending your day arguing about something that doesn't matter: Priceless.

 

[BoxDude]

Why doesn't this thread just get locked? Hardly even on topic now.

 

[M4rk]

Why doesn't this thread just get locked? Hardly even on topic now.

Because all the mods are out fixing OCP...

 

[sabrewolf732]

you're the person that stated a pc is slower than the 360, all I said is that you're wrong and you're the one that created this argument. Now that I have shown you proof you state that the argument is pointless. Way to go? And nice job criticizing an argument you're participating in

 

[K600]

Sorry, but I never said such a thing.

And yet, Call of Duty 2 has, and it runs just as smoothly (If not moreso) on the X360 as it does on PCs.

Smoother =! Faster

I'm tired of arguing this with you, though; you're obviously one of the tens of millions of people who, for some reason or another, feels the need to "prove" ( ) that your chosen platform is the bestest, super-duper ULTRAMAGNIFISPECIAL gaming option on the market.

 

[Stereophile]

Please stay on topic which is Oblivion and its graphics.

 

[FrgMstr]

Because all the mods are out fixing OCP...

FYI, no mods here with the exception of the news guys, who are off this weekend, have nothing to do with HardOCP.com operations.