Odds for ever seeing 3D TVs with true 120 hertz technology?

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oqvist

[H]F Junkie
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I am in a bit of dilemma. I am gaming, web browsing doing it all on a LCD-TV. It make it really hard to go back and downgrade and game on PC monitors. However I want back to the good old CRT days and 100hz plus gaming and 3D.

Currently there seem to be no LCD-TVs that support 120 hertz fully? I know some works but inot in true 120 hertz and pretty unusable for gaming on the PC. So the question is will we ever see one in the near future?.
 
What you are looking for is not necessary if I understand correctly.

120hz main benefit is that it allows it to reproduce 24P footage natively, and thus look smoother.

A computer is not limited in this fashion, and so 60hz still provides a smooth image.

So buy a 120hz capable TV, and switch to "game mode" for low lag computer use. I do this and have had great results.
 
There are only about 7 or 8 LCD monitors that support 120Hz input. There are no LCD TVs that do (120Hz LCD TVs only accept 60Hz input). Since Blu-Ray 3D only requires 48Hz to operate, even the new 3D LCD TVs do not support 120Hz input.

The odds for any 3D TV supporting 120Hz input are very close to zero because the TV manufacturers would have to see some reason for doing that. The only reason for 120Hz input is PC gaming, which the TV industry is absolutely not aware of. They sell TVs for people to watch movies on, end of story. Ask them about using their TVs on PCs and you'll just baffle them.
 
A HDTV at 60hz will reproduce a 60FPS image with no missed frames on a PC AFAIK, why would you need 120hz? Even my new $1000 computer monitor isn't 120hz (Dell U3011).

60FPS looks perfectly smooth to the human eye.

Input lag is what most complain about, but thats from image processing features that most HDTVs let you turn off for computer and console use.
 
Yes, but they are talking about 18fps vs 24fps etc.

A TRUE 60fps, which a PC and 60hz LCD can reproduce, is pretty much universally agreed upon to be smooth, even without motion blurring. Many game titles now also include motion blurring regardless.

Luckily Crysis does for example, which makes it look smooth at 30fps, otherwise, few machines would be able to play it decently.
 
Well it matters for some people with true 120Hz input, I had still been on a CRT monitor if there hadn't been 120Hz LCD monitors released. For me gaming on 120Hz is a night and day difference opposed to 60Hz, I tried settling with 60Hz in the past and just couldn't accept it, had rather put gaming on the shelve until something better had come out.
 
To see the full benefit, you'd have to be running at a minimum game framerate of 120FPS (which translates into an average framerate in the 150s), versus 60FPS minimum.

On most computers, that means turning settings down, and thus reducing the image quality.

While it certainly can't hurt, I just don't see the market until the point when its so cheap you're not paying extra for it. Personally, I think there is some placebo effect going on with 120hz displays as well; wasn't it Shakespeare who said "I think its smoother, there for it is". :p
 
I'm sorry, it's no placebo effect. The difference in smoothness between 60hz and 120hz is night and day. Unfortunately I can't stand TN screens so all current 120hz LCDs are out of the question for me. Maybe 120hz OLED...
 
60hz is shit compared to real 120hz
but my guess is we won't be seeing it in hdtvs until around 2015
that's the only reason i am not buying one btw
 
alamone said:
I'm sorry, it's no placebo effect. The difference in smoothness between 60hz and 120hz is night and day.
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On a PC? I call BS. I heard the same thing from audiophiles about monster cables, but I couldn't hear a difference, and when blind tested, neither could they.

And if any of my games that I am playing have a minimum frame rate of 120fps, that tells me I need a bigger higher resolution monitor or more detail put into the game by developers, not that I should invest in a 120hz display first and foremost. ;)
 
Not this again :rolleyes:

Yes, 120Hz/fps is significantly smoother than 60Hz/fps and I (and probably most people here) can easily tell the difference when blind-tested.

However, there seem to be a number of people who can't tell the difference. They are the ones who keep saying things like "the human eye can't see more than 24/30/60/etc fps". Well, it's their loss.
 
There is a 27" Asus monitor coming out that is 120hz, and it has 1.4 HDMI... Not sure if this is what your looking for..
 
What I want is a monitor with the image quality of the better LCD-TVS and offering true 120 hz support for superior smothness. I can buy that it´s hard to avoid input lag on a TV with lots of processing going on but would settle for less then 30 ms. Less then 20 ms is where I stop being bothered by input lag.

Step one is a new HDMI interface if the current lack the bandwidth. If we get a HDMI interface that allow for 120 hertz that would be a good insentive for TV manufacturers to also try to steal sales from the PC Gaming market and also improve the 3D for bluray and PS 3. Samsung maybe doesn´t want that since they produce both tv and computer monitors but there is a lot of TV manufacturers that doesn´t currently have any interest in the PC monitor market.
 
oqvist said:
What I want is a monitor with the image quality of the better LCD-TVS and offering true 120 hz support for superior smothness. I can buy that it´s hard to avoid input lag on a TV with lots of processing going on but would settle for less then 30 ms. Less then 20 ms is where I stop being bothered by input lag.

Step one is a new HDMI interface if the current lack the bandwidth. If we get a HDMI interface that allow for 120 hertz that would be a good insentive for TV manufacturers to also try to steal sales from the PC Gaming market and also improve the 3D for bluray and PS 3. Samsung maybe doesn´t want that since they produce both tv and computer monitors but there is a lot of TV manufacturers that doesn´t currently have any interest in the PC monitor market.
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hdmi has enough bandwidth
the tv manufacturers are just building the cheapest electronics in their tvs to save money
result is the tvs not able to handle decent video signals
 
Ducman69 said:
On a PC? I call BS. I heard the same thing from audiophiles about monster cables, but I couldn't hear a difference, and when blind tested, neither could they.

And if any of my games that I am playing have a minimum frame rate of 120fps, that tells me I need a bigger higher resolution monitor or more detail put into the game by developers, not that I should invest in a 120hz display first and foremost. ;)
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its night and day.

im sitting here with an asus 120hz and 2 asus 60hz and from the very moment i turned on my 120hz monitor and set it to 120hz its amazingly smooth 60hz is a jitter fest on the desktop and in games. im sure not everyone can tell the difference but for the people that can its amazing once you experience a first person shooter in 120hz its really hard to go back.

infact that has been my whole issue with my gaming experience for the past few years. moving from my 19" CRT which could do 100hz to a 60hz lcd was probably one of the biggest experience let downs ive had from a hardware "upgrade" nothing ever felt smooth until now.
 
Wildace said:
its night and day.

im sitting here with an asus 120hz and 2 asus 60hz and from the very moment i turned on my 120hz monitor and set it to 120hz its amazingly smooth 60hz is a jitter fest on the desktop and in games. im sure not everyone can tell the difference but for the people that can its amazing once you experience a first person shooter in 120hz its really hard to go back.

infact that has been my whole issue with my gaming experience for the past few years. moving from my 19" CRT which could do 100hz to a 60hz lcd was probably one of the biggest experience let downs ive had from a hardware "upgrade" nothing ever felt smooth until now.
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You speak the truth. For an FPS gamer, once you try 120hz there is no going back. Once ASUS releases a 27 with 120hz I'm switching it up.
 
Pastuch said:
You speak the truth. For an FPS gamer, once you try 120hz there is no going back. Once ASUS releases a 27 with 120hz I'm switching it up.
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If you or anyone else doesn't mind, what FPS games are y'all playing, at what resolution, and what hardware? The reason I ask is that I hope people realize that if they are playing at 60FPS gamerates, there is zero difference on a 120hz display, you're still getting 60FPS, its an even ratio as I understand it.
Wildace said:
its night and day.

im sitting here with an asus 120hz and 2 asus 60hz and from the very moment i turned on my 120hz monitor and set it to 120hz its amazingly smooth 60hz is a jitter fest on the desktop and in games.
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Jitterfest at 60FPS on a desktop? Something else is going on. Do you have fluorescent lighting? Try switching to 59hz.
 
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Ducman69 said:
If you or anyone else doesn't mind, what FPS games are y'all playing, at what resolution, and what hardware?
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UT2004 and UT3, 1920x1080. Core i5 750 @ 3.7 GHz, 4 GB RAM, HD5850. My framerate is a constant 120+.

Ducman69 said:
Jitterfest at 60FPS on a desktop? Something else is going on. Do you have fluorescent lighting? Try switching to 59hz.
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Mouse cursor movement is significantly smoother at 120 Hz. I wouldn't say 60 Hz is a jitterfest, but the difference is noticeable.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3/60hzvs120hzsmoothmousec.jpg
 
UT2004? Nostalgic!
tQz1 said:
Mouse cursor movement is significantly smoother at 120 Hz. I wouldn't say 60 Hz is a jitterfest, but the difference is noticeable.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3/60hzvs120hzsmoothmousec.jpg
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I have always noticed the mouse trail when moved rapidly, thats a good point, I didn't consider that. I never notice it in games or video footage though, so thought it was some windows thing rather than a display limitation.
 
~120hz should be possible on the large 3D hdTVs at 1280x720, but drivers don't seem to support this. The implication seems to be that the market interest is insufficient.
 
Well they have PC monitors that support the real 120Hz, there are about a dozen of them or so. I don't see why HDTVs would also not be able to support this. 1080P is 1080P shouldn't matter what the size of the screen is. It just seems like for a living room setting there is not much need for 120Hz since people are using PS3s, cable boxes and other source material that is not 1080P@120Hz capable. Not sure how big of a market there is for PC gamers that use an HDTV as a monitor.
 
Yes PS 3 is to weak performance wise. So a PS 4 may be able to bump the industry in the right direction.

I have used my LCD TV as my primary monitor for three years. It blow the hell out of any PC monitor I have ever been able to leave my eyes on. Of course when I bought it it was 2000K so it´s to be expected. Today I suppose an equal LCD TV is what 3-5K though.

Honestly I don´t see what the problem is. Mine has way to much input lag but there is TVs that is at the 20-30 mark which is while not optimum something I can live with easilly. There is some more ghosting but it´s not much on my 8 ms LCD-TV. Otherwise there is no other cons for LCD TVs as computer monitors just Pros. I have a BenQ G2400W but I quickly realized that despite it´s higher resolution there was not many situations where I wanted to use it. I used it for some racing games since input lag is nothing you want to deal with for those genres. FPS games I generally decided to live with the input lag rather then be frustrated by the awful image quality.

Also as for 120 hz being useless if you don´t run more then 60 fps? I don´t have any experience yet with 120 hz on LCDs but on CRT it´s a big difference between 85 and 100 and even more to 150 hz when running at 50 fps. Tried with a F1 title. The speed sensation and smoothness is exceptional at higher hz.
 
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