One Shot, One Kill, No Skill: Diary of a Cheater

I really don't understand the point of these hacks..... it becomes blatantly clear before long that you're cheating and then you get kicked. Whats the point?
 
sfsuphysics said:
I know everyone is raging over what this guy did, but when I read the title of the article the first thing that came to my mind was "How is this difference than the real money auction house in Diablo 3??" Ok so it's a bit different, as you can't just make everyone die, but still... people pay money to enjoy a game the way THEY want to, end of story. Shit happened with my playing Portal 2, people used cheats to get to the exit instantly without solving puzzles, I simply left the game, and started again trying to find someone who didn't cheat.. I found someone... who was nice enough to ask if it was ok to cheat.
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While I think it's very douchey to cheat in order to ruin the game for others and have fun when they rage, I can at least see what their motivation is...

What on earth is the point of cheating on a puzzle solving game? That is just sad.
 
Silicon_Chef said:
I really don't understand the point of these hacks..... it becomes blatantly clear before long that you're cheating and then you get kicked. Whats the point?
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I don't think anyone even gets banned/kicked anymore. At least from what I've seen in MW3 (never really played online before it). I've seen the same cheaters now for as long as I've owned the game. When will they get banned? When I stop playing the game!

It's crazy, some of the cheaters know it and are totally asking for it and still nothing. One guy had his name as "5th warning" and was aimbotting the whole damn game for ten minutes straight (I stayed to insult him:() . Next day, still around. Remember....his name was 5th warning....lol

After they get your money, fuck off, or at least it's what it feels like.
 
Zepher said:
Most of these games record your stats; amount of bullets shot, hit/miss ratio, distance from enemy, etc, so the system knows what is going on during the game.
If you are killing 20+ people in less than a minute with only 20 or so bullets, then it should instantly flag that player.
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Doesn't work for PB, they don't have access to game code like that, they only intercept packets that are suspicious and correlate with a known database.
 
AnonymousUser said:
I don't think anyone even gets banned/kicked anymore. At least from what I've seen in MW3 (never really played online before it). I've seen the same cheaters now for as long as I've owned the game. When will they get banned? When I stop playing the game!

It's crazy, some of the cheaters know it and are totally asking for it and still nothing. One guy had his name as "5th warning" and was aimbotting the whole damn game for ten minutes straight (I stayed to insult him:() . Next day, still around. Remember....his name was 5th warning....lol

After they get your money, fuck off, or at least it's what it feels like.
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You have to play games with dedicated servers and an active admin staff.

These people can get away with anything on unmonitored servers.
 
Flip side of the coin.

Back when I was good at counter-strike I used to get accused of hacking all the time (I have never once had any kind of hack on any machine I've used).

It got to the point where I just took it as a badge of honor.

In some cases its blatantly obvious, that there is a hack, but I wonder how many of the cases where people think someone is actually hacking, it's just someone who is really good at playing the game...

I've gotten to the point in RO2, where I am consistently towards the top of the leaderboard, and because of the recruiting policies of my clan, I am restricted to only using non-scoped bolt action rifles at that.

if other people are hacking on our servers, they're doing it wrong :p
 
I can understand his only way to vent is buy playing a game, but cheating isn't satisfying at all, that's just boring where is the challenge, where is the satisfaction of beating an opponent using your own skill?
 
I think the most interesting part of the article is this:

Magnus would rather not ban someone, if possible. The first time they think they've found a cheater? "We usually start by stats-wiping them. If we see a repeat felony or whatever you want to call it, we ban them.., if we want to be really mean, we can ban them not just from Battlefield but from all EA games, but, I mean, that's very harsh. We try to keep it within the franchise."
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Yes, because you wouldn't want to be too harsh on the people ruining your game for the millions of legitimate players. And yeah, a stats-wipe is really going to make them realize the error of their ways and stop cheating, right....

I guess it's really all about the money for DICE/EA.
 
Guess I'll repost my reaction to this when it was posted in the BF3 thread on Monday:

MavericK96 said:
That asshole might as well just go out and punch people in the face. "A way to release anger from my job"...give me a break. Either way it is still an anger release at the expense of others. Too bad you can't get arrested for hacking, though...
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Raxxath said:
I think the most interesting part of the article is this:



Yes, because you wouldn't want to be too harsh on the people ruining your game for the millions of legitimate players. And yeah, a stats-wipe is really going to make them realize the error of their ways and stop cheating, right....

I guess it's really all about the money for DICE/EA.
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Well, I hate cheaters as much as the next guy, but banning someone from all games on a service (Origin) for cheating in one game does seem extreme and unnecessary to me. That said, if it's proven they were using hacks, though, it should be an instant permaban from the game. No stat wipe or bullshit like that.
 
MavericK96 said:
Well, I hate cheaters as much as the next guy, but banning someone from all games on a service (Origin) for cheating in one game does seem extreme and unnecessary to me. That said, if it's proven they were using hacks, though, it should be an instant permaban from the game. No stat wipe or bullshit like that.
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How is that extreme? If he cheats in one game, he's going to cheat in others. He broke the terms of his agreement with EA by using hacks, and they have every right to ban him from all their games.
 
Raxxath said:
How is that extreme? If he cheats in one game, he's going to cheat in others. He broke the terms of his agreement with EA by using hacks, and they have every right to ban him from all their games.
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So you think they should lose access to SP-only games (like Dead Space)? I just don't see it making a lot of sense overall.
 
MavericK96 said:
Well, I hate cheaters as much as the next guy, but banning someone from all games on a service (Origin) for cheating in one game does seem extreme and unnecessary to me. That said, if it's proven they were using hacks, though, it should be an instant permaban from the game. No stat wipe or bullshit like that.
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If they'll cheat in one game, they'll cheat in all games. They'll also cheat in other things in life.

Cheating, the sense that rules don't apply to you, is a character flaw, and it affects everything you do. If someone has been caught cheating in one thing, they can not be trusted ever in anything they do.

I say, ban them from not just all games, but all of the internet on the first verified offense :p
 
Zarathustra[H];1038858565 said:
How have these organizations selling subscriptions to hacks not been sued out of existence by the game publishers already?
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Because a EULA/ToS is not a binding contract and thus not enforceable by legal action.

From what I hear, they've tried to sue them but it never goes anywhere.
 
MavericK96 said:
So you think they should lose access to SP-only games (like Dead Space)? I just don't see it making a lot of sense overall.
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Yes. Partly because they're scum, and they deserve the punishment, and partly because that would be a pretty significant deterrent from cheating.

Just imagine what would happen if people had their entire accounts banned the first time they were caught using hacks. I'm sure plenty of people wouldn't even be willing to risk that, and those that do get caught would probably be furious at the hacking websites like AA.
 
MavericK96 said:
Because a EULA/ToS is not a binding contract and thus not enforceable by legal action.

From what I hear, they've tried to sue them but it never goes anywhere.
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Yeah, but big game publishers ought to be able to "deepest pockets" them out of existence, whether their case has legal merits or not...
 
Silicon_Chef said:
I really don't understand the point of these hacks..... it becomes blatantly clear before long that you're cheating and then you get kicked. Whats the point?
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Because the feeling of power and skill the aimbot gives is incredible. Potentially you could use hax in co-op games (like l4d, where I saw a lot of hackers, or KF) and they would feel still rewarding. :D
 
Raxxath said:
Yes. Partly because they're scum, and they deserve the punishment, and partly because that would be a pretty significant deterrent from cheating.

Just imagine what would happen if people had their entire accounts banned the first time they were caught using hacks. I'm sure plenty of people wouldn't even be willing to risk that, and those that do get caught would probably be furious at the hacking websites like AA.
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But then you get into the question of, well, how accurate is the cheat detection, etc...

I dunno. I agree that harsh punishment is deserved but if someone has like $500 worth of games (not all MP ones) on their account and gets accused of cheating in one game, then loses their entire library, that's not really a justifiable punishment.

What if they did the same thing on Steam? You get accused of cheating in one game and they delete your entire library?

All this would do is cause cheaters to make individual Origin accounts with the one cheating game on it.
 
Raxxath said:
Yes. Partly because they're scum, and they deserve the punishment, and partly because that would be a pretty significant deterrent from cheating.

Just imagine what would happen if people had their entire accounts banned the first time they were caught using hacks. I'm sure plenty of people wouldn't even be willing to risk that, and those that do get caught would probably be furious at the hacking websites like AA.
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Or do the opposite. I have a friend whose legit steam account with over 200 games was banned because he forgot the hack on from the hacking account.
After that he got pissed off and said that from there on he would ALWAYS play any game he'd ever play with hax.
And he did.
I have yet to see him play anything legit since then.
 
MavericK96 said:
But then you get into the question of, well, how accurate is the cheat detection, etc...

I dunno. I agree that harsh punishment is deserved but if someone has like $500 worth of games (not all MP ones) on their account and gets accused of cheating in one game, then loses their entire library, that's not really a justifiable punishment.

What if they did the same thing on Steam? You get accused of cheating in one game and they delete your entire library?

All this would do is cause cheaters to make individual Origin accounts with the one cheating game on it.
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I'm only talking about doing this from DICE's end. They said that they find cheaters through stats. When they find these cheaters, they should monitor them through a game or two. If it's inconclusive, put them on a list and don't do anything. If it is conclusive, ban them from everything.

I've been falsely accused of cheating hundreds of times, and have been banned from many servers because of it, so I'm well aware of how awful false accusations can be. But I'm talking about the extremely obvious cheaters first and foremost. Back when I was still playing BF3, the leaderboards were always dominated by the most unbelievably obvious hackers, and they would stay there for weeks or months at a time. When they finally disappeared, you could look up their names, and more often than not they simply would have gotten a stat-wipe, not a ban. That's just inexcusable.
 
kache said:
Or do the opposite. I have a friend whose legit steam account with over 200 games was banned because he forgot the hack on from the hacking account.
After that he got pissed off and said that from there on he would ALWAYS play any game he'd ever play with hax.
And he did.
I have yet to see him play anything legit since then.
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He used hacks, he had it coming.

Too bad there is no way to ban him from ever playing any online game ever again.

Like an industry wide blacklist.
 
I'm not a big fan of TPM, but this seems to me to be one area where it could be put to use well.
 
kache said:
Or do the opposite. I have a friend whose legit steam account with over 200 games was banned because he forgot the hack on from the hacking account.
After that he got pissed off and said that from there on he would ALWAYS play any game he'd ever play with hax.
And he did.
I have yet to see him play anything legit since then.
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I call shens on this.

Valve does not ban your entire steam account for hacking (unless you are "hacking the credit card system").

He would have been VAC banned and prevented from playing any other multi player games that use the same engine.
 
Zarathustra[H];1038858921 said:
He used hacks, he had it coming.

Too bad there is no way to ban him from ever playing any online game ever again.

Like an industry wide blacklist.
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Considering how many keys he keeps buying, the probability of companies killing their own profit like that would be quite ... limited, to say the least... :D
 
DoubleTap said:
I call shens on this.

Valve does not ban your entire steam account for hacking (unless you are "hacking the credit card system").

He would have been VAC banned and prevented from playing any other multi player games that use the same engine.
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Precisely.
But he was banned on tf2, so he couldn't play any source game (basically all he was playing) online anymore.
 
Also, I hope you realize how utterly bankrupt it is to argue that people who break the rules should not receive consequences because it might "make them REALLY break the rules and do it even more often".

Please.
 
kache said:
Precisely.
But he was banned on tf2, so he couldn't play any source game (basically all he was playing) online anymore.
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Cry me a river.

You said his steam account was banned which is a pretty massive distortion.

He deserved what he got.


I constantly harp on the cheating thing with my kids - my 10yr old is pretty sharp and could find and install cheats if he wanted to (hasn't and no reason to think he will).

So while I trust him not to, I'm very strict about my steam account (350+) staying on my PC only.
 
DoubleTap said:
Also, I hope you realize how utterly bankrupt it is to argue that people who break the rules should not receive consequences because it might "make them REALLY break the rules and do it even more often".

Please.
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Don't misunderstand me. I am not saying they shouldn't receive punishment.
What I'm saying is that the punishment shouldn't be excessive, more than the bad thing the person did.
Excessive punishment most of the time leads to the punished person feeling that a huge wrong was done to them, thus creating hatred and desire of vengeance, which exacerbates things even further.
 
kache said:
Don't misunderstand me. I am not saying they shouldn't receive punishment.
What I'm saying is that the punishment shouldn't be excessive, more than the bad thing the person did.
Excessive punishment most of the time leads to the punished person feeling that a huge wrong was done to them, thus creating hatred and desire of vengeance, which exacerbates things even further.
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Nothing yet described is what I would consider "excessive".

Excessive is what will happen when I am King and cheating becomes a capital offense.

Because my death squads will seek out the cheaters and the people who develop the cheats and arrest them.

Now I only call them death squads because that sounds really intimidating.

The cheater mongers will not be executed until they have a fair trial.

Maybe with some UN intervention we could commute their sentences to just removing their digits.

I would never harm one in real life, but if I had the power, I would bring the full weight of my office down upon them in furious vengeful, judgement.

Yes, I really do hate cheaters that badly.

Of course this will never happen - but not because I'm kidding - it won't happen because I will never be elected King.
 
I don't see any problem with:

Cheat in Game A -> Get banned from Game A

Cheat in Game B -> Get banned from Game B

Still have access to Game C (SP only)

I know cheaters piss you guys off to apparently some sort of ungodly level, but banning them from all games for cheating in one is a case of the punishment not fitting the crime, regardless of how much you hate cheaters or how much you think they're "never going to change".
 
kache said:
Don't misunderstand me. I am not saying they shouldn't receive punishment.
What I'm saying is that the punishment shouldn't be excessive, more than the bad thing the person did.
Excessive punishment most of the time leads to the punished person feeling that a huge wrong was done to them, thus creating hatred and desire of vengeance, which exacerbates things even further.
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I kind of see where you are going however I think that the fact they are cheating to begin with shows us that the person committing the initial infraction will see themselves as entitled no matter what action is taken.

Expand your scope outside of video games -- petty crime, major crime, fraud, assault, murder. Most people who do these things will always have an excuse that is in their mind 100% legitimate. "I had to rob and kill that kwickie mart clerk so I could get 100 dollars to feed my kids/crack habit".

My personal belief is that even with the rules we put in place, be it online games or real life consequences are few and far between. Nobody will stop cheating online because there isn't any real consequences. Sure, it might cost you 30 dollars for a new game key, but I mean't consequences that stick with you and are a mark on your life of how terrible a person you are. The people that habitually cheat online are the same type of people who will rob a gas station, spend a few months in jail and when they get out, do it all over again. Same thing goes with the person who has 12 DUI's but will get caught in a 13th. Why? because society is too weak to stand up and say "no - we will not tolerate this and you will not be allowed to continue in life"

Do you think we would have as much theft if proven thieves had their hand cut off?
The reason capital punishment doesn't work in it's present form is due to the fact even if I blow away an entire building of people I'll get to sit on death row for 20+ years getting free medical care, free food, and all the free prison sex I could want (joke).

I've long fantasized about the ability to instantly materialize with a baseball bat in the room of a person cheating in online video games. Give them a choice either I smash up all their equipment or I smash them up. As much as it sucks to say, pain is the one universal thing all people understand.

People can make excuses all they want - the fact is anyone who cheats in a game, in life, on a test, or anytime is a sad pathetic sack of crap. They are the people who think the rules should not apply to them. And one of the reasons our society is increasingly circling the toilet is because our rules and our punishment system are not universal or properly enforced.

At the end of the day people are generally creatures of habit - once a cheater, always a cheater. Once a murderer always a murderer. It' a video game so I'm not suggesting we start putting online cheaters on death row. The best you can hope for that's fair is a swift and permanent ban on anyone who's breaking the rules. There will be as many cheaters, liars, and scammers in the world as we allow. And right now from what I see in day to day life, we are quite generous with "letting it slide". So very sad

I play on a select few BF3 servers and 95% of the time enjoy myself. Unless someone wants to give me some supreme authority, the ability to teleport, and a baseball bat... not much is going to change.
 
You guys are comparing real life crimes to cheating in video games.

If you get robbed, raped, etc. in real life then yeah you're screwed. But if someone's hacking in a server, then either join a different server, buy your own damn server, complain to the game company for having crap security, or maybe just not take video games so seriously.

The more you rage against hackers, the more hackers there will be.
 
this is why games like starcraft fastest is great. there are still tons of cheaters but starcraft you can still beat the cheaters by being skilled enough.
 
MavericK96 said:
But then you get into the question of, well, how accurate is the cheat detection, etc...

I dunno. I agree that harsh punishment is deserved but if someone has like $500 worth of games (not all MP ones) on their account and gets accused of cheating in one game, then loses their entire library, that's not really a justifiable punishment.

What if they did the same thing on Steam? You get accused of cheating in one game and they delete your entire library?

All this would do is cause cheaters to make individual Origin accounts with the one cheating game on it.
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But that's what is needed almost. There needs to be a strong enough deterrent from cheating, and the process to cheat needs to be made more difficult than the average joe is willing to invest time into.

Once that happens cheating with take a nose dive, right now any idiot can go get his credit card and cheat. Stat wiping isn't enough, there needs to be something to make people think twice. If to cheat in a game, you're forced to jump through a bunch of hoops then yes please lets make it as hard and as much of a pain in the ass process as possible.

We need a deterrent
We need accurate detections
We need an appropriate punishment

This is why third party anticheat organizations exist. PBBans (not releated to PB) takes standard 2 minute PB violation kicks and turns them into permanent bans, among other detections. They then allow server admins to stream banlists to help protect their servers.

MetaBans just started up again, and allows groups to stream their Banlists. other admins can follow as many or as few other groups as they want and stream their banlists from any and all.

If you run a server, you need to be streaming to PBBans!

These third party Anticheat groups are often and frequency subject to DDoS attacks, because they make it hell for cheaters more than the Anticheat software companies do.
 
MingoDynasty said:
You guys are comparing real life crimes to cheating in video games.

If you get robbed, raped, etc. in real life then yeah you're screwed. But if someone's hacking in a server, then either join a different server, buy your own damn server, complain to the game company for having crap security, or maybe just not take video games so seriously.

The more you rage against hackers, the more hackers there will be.
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I think it should be a crime.

It impacts the seller and the buyer.

I doubt I could get it legislated as a federal capital offense, but I think there are some legislative avenues that could be explored.

At the core, it's fraud.
 
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