One Way To Fight Back Over 2142 Spyware

Martyr said:
this one

i dont care for the implications of that at all
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Holy crap! Kind of scary to think of what they could possibly be doing that would cause an error in the game with that patch installed.
 
EA has a 30 day return policy. When BF2 first came out I thought it was going to be like BF1942, which it was not. Anyway, open box, Fry's won't take it back. Emailed EA customer support, they had me send them the game and then they sent me an unopend version which I took back to Fry's for the refund. You loose the cost of shipping the game to EA but that is better than having some crapola spyware installed on your system.
 
Martyr said:
thing is, almost every college campus i know about (which contain alot of gamers) require that machines connected have all windows security updates. not having one is grounds for blocking access of that machine.
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I was wondering how long it would take for someone to mention this.

Unfortunately, it also isn't unheard of for a MS uninstall of anything to leave you with a computer that won't boot!

And to think I raise an eyebrow when software installers recommend I disable _ALL_ anti-virus software before continuing... Why... is this a virus?

(actually, do any spyware-sniffers detect BF?)
 
I won't be buying anything from EA from now on.....they still haven't fixed BF2 as far as I am concerned. I don't necessarily have a problem with adverts, hell, you have to watch 15 minutes of adverts at the theater now before the coming attractions. I have a problem with what most of you guys do: no warning on the outside of the box and the security patch issue. Does seem fishy.......I'll just wait for Quake wars........
 
At first I started writing a long paragraph stating how pissed I was at something like this happening... but then I got bored, deleted everything and decided to just express myself in as few words as possible.

This sucks!

I know its not clever but it clear and concise.
 
Well I "was" going to purchase this game. I liked the demo alot, but this is reason enough for me to do something more productive, maybe even exercise :eek:
 
I pretty much scanned the whole thread here but here's my take.

If you don't like the in-game advertising, why not just load up the server (many of them) with players, and sit there and stare at the adds for extended periods of time?

This would be similar to the whole "click-fraud" stuff that Google has (is) gone (going) through right now. It would skew their "eyes on adds" numbers so badly that the advertisers would stop offering up the money to pay for them, because they'd be completely irrelevant to them. Eventually, these in-game-add companies would dry up, because no advertisers would be willing to pay for "empty eyes" on their adds.

Of course, this is based on the same principal as the Google click, where the advertisers pay based on how many views it gets. Which, makes sense since they're tracking the times viewed.

What gets me too is that they (IGA - Spyware company) says that there is nothing personally identifiable in there, but then in that interview on Gamasutra they say this: 'Townsend mentioned, as an example, that "if the brief says 'Males 18 to 34'", the ads may only be served between 6pm and 9pm on a weekday evening or similar, to replicate 'primetime' viewing.' Nothing personally identifiable, but they KNOW I'm in an age range, what is more personal than that?

Anyway, that's my 2-bits.

As an aside, I sent this information to a buddy who is a department manager of a Wal-Mart, and told him to open a box, and post this little included note on the register for anyone thinking of buying the game, and informing his associates of the "problem" so they can inform customers what that slip of paper means to them.
 
I won't buy BF2142 or any other game with in-game ads. Just bullshit. If I wanted to see ads, I'd sit down and watch TV or open a magazine. I've already paid for the game. If they aren't making enough money, RAISE the price of the game and be done with it.

I'll pass the word around about this issue and encourage folk I know not to buy EA's games. But you know how most people are; lazy and uninformed. All I can do is help with the uninformed part...

This crap has to be stopped now, or in a few years gaming will just be ruined. Off to contact EA I go.

EDIT*** Anyone have an email address for EA? They make it damn difficult to find.
 
i posted this in another thread but reread it.


is this really spyware, what i heard is it gets your IP and puts ads according to region.

that is not spyware.

in game ads, yes, adware, not really because its not external software that is running or bogging your computer, its replacing graphics in game with ads, so instead of seeng a wall with a window, you see a billboard or sign-ad.

quite being crybabies
 
Please dont do this to Need For Speed : Carbon . . . P L E A S E
 
It is spyware.
More importantly, if you have to ask the question, shouldn't it be a red flag to stay away?

These advertising companies aren't dumb. They make more money if they are able to aim advertisements at particular groups. IGA says themselves in that interview that they are able to determine the age. A company will do whatever it takes to make more money.

I hope nobody purchases this game. But since it seems that a lot of you are going to buy it anyway because you don't think this is a big deal, think about the precedent you're setting.
 
Ludic said:
It is spyware.
.
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so if you surf to a website with Firefox and the server logs your ip are you saying firefox is spyware?

howmany times have you gone to websites and seen ads for stuff based on you local area?

is you browser spyware?

its the same thing.
 
I too "was" going to buy this game but now Im not. I like many others don't like people recording what sites Ive been to, or dispalying ads for what I look at. EA sooner or later will realize what a mistake this was and either release a pre-patch or offer a replacement disk. Until then, and the price for the game reaches $25-30 I wont purchase. And then to have to uninstall a security patch..tsk tsk tsk.
 
hity645 said:
I too "was" going to buy this game but now Im not. I like many others don't like people recording what sites Ive been to, or dispalying ads for what I look at. EA sooner or later will realize what a mistake this was and either release a pre-patch or offer a replacement disk. Until then, and the price for the game reaches $25-30 I wont purchase. And then to have to uninstall a security patch..tsk tsk tsk.
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it doesnt track your sites. some of you are really misinformed.

edit. the uninstall of the security patch is a negative.
 
Everyone who plays the game must agree to the terms and conditions. But how many have read through it?

Pay particular attention to the 4th paragraph.



" Information collected will vary depending on the activity and may include your name, e-mail address, phone number, mobile number, home address, birth date, and credit card information. In addition, we may collect demographic information such as gender, zip code, information about your computer, hardware, software, platform, media, Internet IP address and connection, information about online activity such as feature usage, game play statistics, and scores, user rankings and click paths and other data that you may provide in suryeys or online profiles. for instance. We may combine demographic information with personal information. Prize winners may also be required to provide Social Security or Social Identification Number for tax purposes. "
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Note : The above is from the demo not full version of the game.
 
I got the game last night, and I played it for about three hours. I didn't notice any ads really (probably because I was concetrated on killing/driving/flying). It didn't appear to affect performance.
 
Susquehannock said:
Everyone who plays the game must agree to the terms and conditions. But how many have read through it?

Pay particular attention to the 4th paragraph.

[IG]http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9269/bf2142termszp8.th.jpg[/IMG]



Note : The above is from the demo not full version of the game.
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ok dont mislead the sheeple

this is if you register online for an EA account, the form requirs fields for this information. its not because some spyware program loaded on you computer stole the information and sent it to EA,

registration fields, not a new concept.
 
Ludic said:
It is spyware.
More importantly, if you have to ask the question, shouldn't it be a red flag to stay away?

These advertising companies aren't dumb. They make more money if they are able to aim advertisements at particular groups. IGA says themselves in that interview that they are able to determine the age. A company will do whatever it takes to make more money.

I hope nobody purchases this game. But since it seems that a lot of you are going to buy it anyway because you don't think this is a big deal, think about the precedent you're setting.
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No they didn't say they can determine the age (if they did they lied). From polling and several other forms of VOLUNTARY information they collect they can guess that the majority of game players between a given time are of a certain age. There is no way they can go into my machine and say "hey windows, how old is your user?" Unless M$ has a way of discerning my age (and if they do I'm shutting off my computer for good right now), they have absolutely no idea who I am. NONE of my personal information is on it, anywhere.

As much as I hate what they're doing with this, this IS NOT spyware. Is it adware? You bet it is. Any software that is designed to bring advertisements to your screen constitutes advertising-software in my book.

But no, I won't be buying this game, nor anything from EA from now on. I hate advertising, and I'll vote against it with my wallet. (which likely won't do much good, but it will save me some money)
 
I was about to go out and buy this game but no way in hell am I going to pay for a product that installs this kind of crap on my machine. Sorry EA you just lost my sale.
 
Steelgrave said:
No they didn't say they can determine the age (if they did they lied). From polling and several other forms of VOLUNTARY information they collect they can guess that the majority of game players between a given time are of a certain age. There is no way they can go into my machine and say "hey windows, how old is your user?" Unless M$ has a way of discerning my age (and if they do I'm shutting off my computer for good right now), they have absolutely no idea who I am. NONE of my personal information is on it, anywhere.

As much as I hate what they're doing with this, this IS NOT spyware. Is it adware? You bet it is. Any software that is designed to bring advertisements to your screen constitutes advertising-software in my book.

But no, I won't be buying this game, nor anything from EA from now on. I hate advertising, and I'll vote against it with my wallet. (which likely won't do much good, but it will save me some money)
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The unique ID includes IP information, it inlcudes your account number for EA, that means they have all the information for your account including your email address, if you bought the gaem through their downloader they probably have your credit card credentials, IP address will give rough geographic location, name gives them your phone number.

Think thats bad? I'm learning most of my database skills from someone who worked on the electral roll database and they have algorithms to work out based on certain arbitary criteria how likely you are to be a home owner, be on benefits, own a car, need insurace etc

Trying to play down this as not spyware because they don't monitor your browsing or anything that other "typical" spyware monitors, is just a bad idea. You're foolish if you think EA aren't laughing this one all the way to the bank.
 
If EA wants money for in game advertising, so be it. Don't expect for me to PAY for the privelege of being marketed to, though. I would call that "double dipping", and it is totally unacceptable to me. If you're gonna make money by cramming ads in front of my face, give me the "product" for free.

The other half of the equation, though, is the whole issue of having to remove a security update for this software to run. I know that sometimes EA's code just outright sucks... but COME ON NOW. This is absolutely unacceptable from any software vendor, especially one that has the development resources of EA. If you require exploitable weaknesses to exist on my machine for your code to run, I'd rather not execute your program, thank you very much.

EA has really blundered here. I will not be buying 2142 (and to think... I almost pre-ordered!). EA will never see another dime from me unless this mistake is used as a turning point for their company. I also happen to have quite a bit of influence with my technignorant friends... they will all have a negative impression of EA in the near future.

Looks like this is the final push that I needed to give up on windows gaming. I can still play quake and counter strike with Cedega or even native. If this is what "new gaming" will be like on windows going forward, I'll stick with the software that I have. I must be getting old... :mad:

-q

*edited because in my rage, i forgot how to spell "their"*
 
Frosteh said:
The unique ID includes IP information, it inlcudes your account number for EA, that means they have all the information for your account including your email address, if you bought the gaem through their downloader they probably have your credit card credentials, IP address will give rough geographic location, name gives them your phone number.

Think thats bad? I'm learning most of my database skills from someone who worked on the electral roll database and they have algorithms to work out based on certain arbitary criteria how likely you are to be a home owner, be on benefits, own a car, need insurace etc

Trying to play down this as not spyware because they don't monitor your browsing or anything that other "typical" spyware monitors, is just a bad idea. You're foolish if you think EA aren't laughing this one all the way to the bank.
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Congratulations on your learning experience. I've been a DBA for the past 10 years, 4 of which was at a marketing company. I know all too well what goes on behind the scenes for that kind of stuff.

Now go reread my sentence with the word "VOLUNTARY" in it. Yes if you bought it online through them, they're going to have your information. Anything you buy online and/or locally with a credit card gets tracked back in some fashion. And yes, buying a car, home etc.. all gets tracked as well. Marketing firms pay big $$$ to get at this type of information, and EA/Dice will be making some money off of sales. However this whole thread is about in game advertising, not big brother.
 
qfour20 said:
If EA wants money for in game advertising, so be it. Don't expect for me to PAY for the privelege of being marketed to, though. I would call that "double dipping", and it is totally unacceptable to me. If you're gonna make money by cramming ads in front of my face, give me the "product" for free.

The other half of the equation, though, is the whole issue of having to remove a security update for this software to run. I know that sometimes EA's code just outright sucks... but COME ON NOW. This is absolutely unacceptable from any software vendor, especially one that has the development resources of EA. If you require exploitable weaknesses to exist on my machine for your code to run, I'd rather not execute your program, thank you very much.

EA has really blundered here. I will not be buying 2142 (and to think... I almost pre-ordered!). EA will never see another dime from me unless this mistake is used as a turning point for thier company. I also happen to have quite a bit of influence with my technignorant friends... they will all have a negative impression of EA in the near future.

Looks like this is the final push that I needed to give up on windows gaming. I can still play quake and counter strike with Cedega or even native. If this is what "new gaming" will be like on windows going forward, I'll stick with the software that I have. I must be getting old... :mad:

-q
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Amen. You're not alone...
 
Wow.

qfour20 said:
If EA wants money for in game advertising, so be it. Don't expect for me to PAY for the privelege of being marketed to, though. I would call that "double dipping", and it is totally unacceptable to me. If you're gonna make money by cramming ads in front of my face, give me the "product" for free.
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Who gives a damn? It's called free enterprise and a free market. If I can get money in multiple ways for one product, I will do it. I fail to see how it is unethical. It's called making money. I call it a smart business decision whether I like it or not.

qfour20 said:
The other half of the equation, though, is the whole issue of having to remove a security update for this software to run. I know that sometimes EA's code just outright sucks... but COME ON NOW. This is absolutely unacceptable from any software vendor, especially one that has the development resources of EA. If you require exploitable weaknesses to exist on my machine for your code to run, I'd rather not execute your program, thank you very much.
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Removing the security update to make it run is BS. If a security fix that patches a security hole kills your product, your product needs to be re-worked, fixed or flat out redesigned. I completely agree with you when you say this is unacceptable.

qfour20 said:
EA has really blundered here. I will not be buying 2142 (and to think... I almost pre-ordered!). EA will never see another dime from me unless this mistake is used as a turning point for thier company. I also happen to have quite a bit of influence with my technignorant friends... they will all have a negative impression of EA in the near future.
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EA is a business and for some reason has attracted an unreasonable amount of forum hate. EA puts out some shaky products, but nothing I've purchased has been overly problematic or has upset me. I've been pleased with most of my purchases. Including BF2 and BF2142. Most of these games work fine for most people. Those with problems are probably in the minority. That's not to say these problems aren't real or don't exist, or aren't as bad as people say they are, but there are probably alot more people enjoying these games than not.

qfour20 said:
Looks like this is the final push that I needed to give up on windows gaming. I can still play quake and counter strike with Cedega or even native. If this is what "new gaming" will be like on windows going forward, I'll stick with the software that I have. I must be getting old... :mad:
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This has nothing to do with Microsoft or Windows. This is EA doing this. Blame the right people for the right reasons.

I think a lot of people here need to get off their high horses. Companies are out there to make money. They will do it anyway they can. It's not evil, it is just business. If you don't like a product don't buy it. It is as simple as that. Boycotting companies and games is very much like the useless tree hugging hippie crap of the sixties. It didn't stop hardly any company or anyone back then and it won't now.

I for one have no problems with BF2142 and I have seen no ill performance affects from their advertising. The advertising I haven't even noticed. I am too busy killing, flying and driving to care what the billboards say.

Another thing is that I have nothing to hide on my PC, I don't care what information they are gathering. I have no horse, tranny, goat, gay, or strange fetish videos I am worried about hiding.

Additionally, the EULA for the game tells you what information they are gathering. If you don't like that, some states have laws now allowing you to return opened games if you don't agree to the EULA. California is one such state.

If I found out that EA was gathering information not declared in the EULA, then that would be different. If they gathered information not in the EULA, then I would be morally offended, and they'd be in violation of the EULA, and I'd make a legal case out of something like that. As long as it doesn't affect performance, I don't care if they are gathering the things they say they are gathering.

Flame on if you want to, but I think people are overreacting here.
 
Dan_D said:
Another thing is that I have nothing to hide on my PC, I don't care what information they are gathering. I have no horse, tranny, goat, gay, or strange fetish videos I am worried about hiding.
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Where does it end though do we just give up all of our privacy on the PC, its best to stop these things when they start, and vote with our wallet. While right now they only "collect" information while in game, they have already done some shaky tactics to do this. Why must it run as a service and have access to kernel mode, which allow it access to any information on your system. This is why Windows fixed this hole, because user software is not suppose have kernel privileges. Just because they say it isn't spyware, does not keep it from being spyware. Hell Gator never said it was spyware, but that was one of the original and most troubling forms of data mining crap out there

You may not have porn, on your computer, but a lot of us have Credit Card numbers and online banking information, stuff much more important, which can be readily available to someone who wants to take advantage of IGA's program.

If you want to advertise in games, keep it in the game itself, there is no reason for it to be handled this way, it just adds more security concerns. This is why this type of viral advertising should be avoided. If it becomes the model, what do we do when every company has some sort of service running in the background for every single game. Its only a matter of time before someone figures out the priveleges and begans to take all the information off your PC.
 
computadorka said:
ok dont mislead the sheeple

>>>>
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Not trying to mislead anyone. Only passing along information that others might have missed when installing the demo. Where did I say anything about a spyware program anywhere in this thread? ~ Please don't put words in my mouth ~

>> "this is if you register online for an EA account, the form requirs fields for this information. " <<

Yes, one must register online for an EA account in order to install the demo. Likely the same for the full game.
 
UltimaParadox said:
Where does it end though do we just give up all of our privacy on the PC, its best to stop these things when they start, and vote with our wallet. While right now they only "collect" information while in game, they have already done some shaky tactics to do this. Why must it run as a service and have access to kernel mode, which allow it access to any information on your system. This is why Windows fixed this hole, because user software is not suppose have kernel privileges. Just because they say it isn't spyware, does not keep it from being spyware. Hell Gator never said it was spyware, but that was one of the original and most troubling forms of data mining crap out there

You may not have porn, on your computer, but a lot of us have Credit Card numbers and online banking information, stuff much more important, which can be readily available to someone who wants to take advantage of IGA's program.

If you want to advertise in games, keep it in the game itself, there is no reason for it to be handled this way, it just adds more security concerns. This is why this type of viral advertising should be avoided. If it becomes the model, what do we do when every company has some sort of service running in the background for every single game. Its only a matter of time before someone figures out the priveleges and begans to take all the information off your PC.
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You make some good points. I agree with many of them.

I just don't store anything of value on my PC.I believe if people do, they need to take extra care with that.
 
You want to know why the strong dislike for EA on a PC forum:

1. They concentrate heavily on consoles rather than PC games. That used to be reversed. PC users are second rate to EA and frankly, they are treated that way. Games on consoles that don't make it to PC are far more common in EA that PC games not making it to consoles.

2. Origin Studios: This probably pisses me off the most about EA. Probably the premier gaming development studio bought by EA and turned into utter sh*t.

3. Westwood Studios: See above.

4. Follow it up with generic ports that are lacking in quality and ambitiousness for PC capabilites.

5. Stupid stuff like this little spyware fiasco.

6. Madden 2007 for PC is a COMPLETELY different engine than the 360. Hello???? It's this type of patch-work production that irritates me.

7. Hogging licenses and exclusivity: NBA, NFL, FIFA, etc. They have bought all rights for these brands. For the PC there are NO OTHER players in the game except for Pro Evolution Soccer. This is just market bullying technique that acts as barrier of entry for competitors.

'Nuff said...
 
Steelgrave said:
Congratulations on your learning experience. I've been a DBA for the past 10 years, 4 of which was at a marketing company. I know all too well what goes on behind the scenes for that kind of stuff.

Now go reread my sentence with the word "VOLUNTARY" in it. Yes if you bought it online through them, they're going to have your information. Anything you buy online and/or locally with a credit card gets tracked back in some fashion. And yes, buying a car, home etc.. all gets tracked as well. Marketing firms pay big $$$ to get at this type of information, and EA/Dice will be making some money off of sales. However this whole thread is about in game advertising, not big brother.
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This was to address the issue of "spyware" which some people were playing down as being harmless because they don't track web habbits, I'm simply pointing out that you don't need to track someones browsing habbits to get information on them, you can actually take relativly little data and extrapolate from that.

The thread is about spyware, I'm sorry if what I have to say is waaay off topic for you, I'm just trying to help people get a good perspective on what exactly is going on here, and Dice/EA claiming they only track X/Y/Z doesn't mean we should accept the fact that they're doing it.

Their spyware is no different from what we might consider "normal" spyware, it essentially does the same thing and while the rumour originaters who started the rumour about it tracking web habbits are wrong, but it doesn't really make the situation any better.
 
slacker6 said:
You want to know why the strong dislike for EA on a PC forum:

1. They concentrate heavily on consoles rather than PC games. That used to be reversed. PC users are second rate to EA and frankly, they are treated that way. Games on consoles that don't make it to PC are far more common in EA that PC games not making it to consoles.

2. Origin Studios: This probably pisses me off the most about EA. Probably the premier gaming development studio bought by EA and turned into utter sh*t.

3. Westwood Studios: See above.

4. Follow it up with generic ports that are lacking in quality and ambitiousness for PC capabilites.

5. Stupid stuff like this little spyware fiasco.

6. Madden 2007 for PC is a COMPLETELY different engine than the 360. Hello???? It's this type of patch-work production that irritates me.

7. Hogging licenses and exclusivity: NBA, NFL, FIFA, etc. They have bought all rights for these brands. For the PC there are NO OTHER players in the game except for Pro Evolution Soccer. This is just market bullying technique that acts as barrier of entry for competitors.

'Nuff said...
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I largely agree with you. However a couple points:

1) Console games outsell PC games by wide margin, so it should be pretty obvious why their loyalties are where they are.

6) EA doesn't create Madden, Tiburon Entertainment does. They publish and distribute it. (They do own Tiburon though, so it's hard to tell where any decision like that gets made)

7) I'm still shocked that this even happened. :mad:
 
Dan_D said:
Wow.



Who gives a damn? It's called free enterprise and a free market. If I can get money in multiple ways for one product, I will do it. I fail to see how it is unethical. It's called making money. I call it a smart business decision whether I like it or not.
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I don't think I claimed that it was unethical or disallowed in any way. I just don't like it, and therefore will not be giving them my money. I will also inform others of my (highly biased) opinion. That is all. You are very right that it is a free market, and EA can do whatever they please. They have, however, alienated at least one customer who has paid a lot of money for many of their products in the past. It is generally accepted that pissing off your customers can be a bad business move. It all depends on the company and the market. I fear that EA will, in the end, be no worse for having made this move and will have increased their profits.

Dan_D said:
EA is a business and for some reason has attracted an unreasonable amount of forum hate. EA puts out some shaky products, but nothing I've purchased has been overly problematic or has upset me. I've been pleased with most of my purchases. Including BF2 and BF2142. Most of these games work fine for most people. Those with problems are probably in the minority. That's not to say these problems aren't real or don't exist, or aren't as bad as people say they are, but there are probably alot more people enjoying these games than not.
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I don't *hate* EA, per se. I have had "issues" with some of the code they've written in the past, but none of my problems have been very severe, and all were eventually fixed by patches. Your point is very valid and I agree.
Dan_D said:
This has nothing to do with Microsoft or Windows. This is EA doing this. Blame the right people for the right reasons.
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I don't put any of the blame on Microsoft for EA's current blunder here. Please don't misunderstand what I was trying to (very poorly) state: *IF* this is how gaming will be going forward, then I'm not interested. The *ONLY* reason that I run windows on *ONE* machine in my house is to play games. Now that every game that I currently play is supported via other methods (and has been for some time), I no longer need MS software in my home. I'm trying to signify that subverting my operating system to collect marketing data about me JUST SO I CAN PLAY A GAME is not ok with me. If there's no longer any valid reason for me to run windows, I'd prefer not to. Maybe I'm just being a unix snob, but whatever... Point taken, though. I do not hold Microsoft as a party to this debacle, but in my circumstance, they may be impacted by it.
Dan_D said:
Another thing is that I have nothing to hide on my PC, I don't care what information they are gathering. I have no horse, tranny, goat, gay, or strange fetish videos I am worried about hiding.
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*sigh* Privacy is not just about those with something to hide. It's a sad state that the world is coming to, and people who share your opinions are just hurling us ever faster towards that end. Please, put down the mouse, power off the computer, and go sit under a tree and read "1984" again.

Sorry if I flamed anyone, but this situation repulses me. You can claim that "hippy crap" like not spending your money with a company that is doing things you disagree with accomplishes nothing, but I'd rather try and accomplish nothing than not try. I'm glad you're enjoying the game, though. Frag on, I guess.

-q
 
WHy hasent M$ stepped in and said something? Theres gotta be something where they say you cant force people to unregister an update or so to install some software.

This would be a good oppertunity for MS to step in and say they dont like adware (make themselves look a hella lot better than goooogle too). I hate ads.

Or atleast make the software free. thats the only reason I like googles stuff
 
enjoy :)

Resize_of_BF2142adds_1_.jpg
 
I heard a rumor EA wants to expand the in game advertising into MMOs (Sims, Warhammer Online, etc.).
 
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