Opera: IE 'Kill' Switch Not Enough

I run Linux primarily, but on my Windows partition I have Firefox, IE, Opera, Chrome, and formerly Safari installed. I am a browser junkie. I used Opera as my primary browser back around 2000. That was almost ten years ago. Now I use Firefox because I like its customization options - I never have to see those double-underlined inline text ads - and its tab behavior.

I like going to a site like the [H] and clicking on links for all the stories that interest me. They appear in background tabs and then I work my way back to where I started, closing each tab to shift one tab over.

Opera cannot do this - and people on their forums have reacted quite negatively whenever I mention it.

It's not going to be my primary browser again for a very long time, if ever.
 
I am still confused why Opera has failed to pick up market share on windows ... plenty of people are using them on cell phones, you think they would have migrated by now, just to share bookmarks.
 
Lemurion said:
I run Linux primarily, but on my Windows partition I have Firefox, IE, Opera, Chrome, and formerly Safari installed. I am a browser junkie. I used Opera as my primary browser back around 2000. That was almost ten years ago. Now I use Firefox because I like its customization options - I never have to see those double-underlined inline text ads - and its tab behavior.

I like going to a site like the [H] and clicking on links for all the stories that interest me. They appear in background tabs and then I work my way back to where I started, closing each tab to shift one tab over.

Opera cannot do this - and people on their forums have reacted quite negatively whenever I mention it.

It's not going to be my primary browser again for a very long time, if ever.
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Uhh, yes it can.

Middle mouse button opens links in background.
 
darkpaw said:
I agree. I was actually considering buying their mobile browser since it is way better then IE mobile, but after they starting whining I said screw it and just stuck with IE till mobile FF is released.
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Almost anything is better than Pocket IE, but the version of Opera that came on my Nokia is possibly the most unstable and featureless browser I've ever used. And Opera won't let Nokia update it either. I'm still waiting for a decent FF release for Nokia.

You might not be missing much.
 
Wow, wtf, I totally forgot about the Opera browser who the hell still uses it. So yeah I can see them thinking the Killswitch wouldn't be enough.
 
pxc said:
Almost anything is better than Pocket IE, but the version of Opera that came on my Nokia is possibly the most unstable and featureless browser I've ever used. And Opera won't let Nokia update it either. I'm still waiting for a decent FF release for Nokia.

You might not be missing much.
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On my blackberry, Opera is significantly better than the built in browser. It is much faster for browsing the web.
 
Spac3d said:
On my blackberry, Opera is significantly better than the built in browser. It is much faster for browsing the web.
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Great for you, but it doesn't help me one bit. :p Minimo (mini mozilla) is practically an abandonded pre-beta on my Nokia and yet it's far more stable. I'm looking forward to the ARM port of Ubuntu in order to finally dump the unsupported Maemo (OS2006) platform and a useless version of Opera that Nokia can't update.

Anyways, Opera is a bunch of whiners, clinging to a browser that very, very few want. There's already a multi-platform "alternative" browser (FF), and an alternative to that (Chrome) and an alternative to that (Safari). Even the new kids have lapped Opera several times in terms of install share.
 
pxc said:
Great for you, but it doesn't help me one bit. :p Minimo (mini mozilla) is practically an abandonded pre-beta on my Nokia and yet it's far more stable. I'm looking forward to the ARM port of Ubuntu in order to finally dump the unsupported Maemo (OS2006) platform and a useless version of Opera that Nokia can't update.

Anyways, Opera is a bunch of whiners, clinging to a browser that very, very few want. There's already a multi-platform "alternative" browser (FF), and an alternative to that (Chrome) and an alternative to that (Safari). Even the new kids have lapped Opera several times in terms of install share.
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Which Nokia are you using?
 
I think if Opera wants their product bundled with the OS, break open the checkbook and pay microsoft to incorporate it as an install. I have no issues w/ IE. I know it will update w/ the rest of the OS on patch Tuesday.

People are putting too much stock in a browser. Actually I think it is like buying a new house.

I buy a house from a National Builder - say DR Horton. They go out to china and get their own branded OEM 46" tv. A customer asks DR Horton if they can get credit for not taking that tv and putting a Samsung in the house. DR Horton says no. Why? Because they have a vested interest of putting their branded Dr.TV brand in the house, since they purchased based on volume of new home construction. BUT once the house is purchased, DR Horton does not restrict the home owner from putting in a 2nd, 3rd, 4th TV. Nor does it restrict the user from taking out the 1st TV throwing it on craigslist,and putting the samsung in its place (windows 7). Before (Vista/XP) would be built into a wall, where you could not remove it, but you could buy a larger TV and cover it up, and just not use it and ignore it.

I don't see what the fuss is about, they just gave you the special key to essentially remove the 1st TV.
 
They're just pissy; because the people that did choose to use something besides IE chose firefox or chrome. Seriously just STFU and admit no one likes your browser and that's why it's user base is small and stagnant.
 
Spac3d said:
I am still confused why Opera has failed to pick up market share on windows ... plenty of people are using them on cell phones, you think they would have migrated by now, just to share bookmarks.
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How are you confused? Anyone who has used pretty much any browser except opera in the past 10 years are pretty well aware why they don't use it unless forced. :D Opera Rates only slightly above Juno, People PC and AoL's custom browsers. :p
 
I personally love Opera and use it as my main browser. It's more responsive than IE when I have lots of tabs open, it has better features like Undo and saving my open tabs until the next time I open it...but I don't see why MS would have to help Opera. It's not in their best interest, obviousely.

All Opera needs is more advertising. FF has a lot more, that's why more people know about it. It's not because it's better that it's more popular. Opera makers can't just sit around and wait for MS to do something about it.
 
I need IE with my fresh Windows install. How else am I to easily navigate to www.mozilla.com and download Firefox? I don't want to carry around my thumb drive with the latest install of FF on it. After FF is installed then I can "killswitch" IE. So IE does serve some small purpose.
 
Lemurion said:
I like going to a site like the [H] and clicking on links for all the stories that interest me. They appear in background tabs and then I work my way back to where I started, closing each tab to shift one tab over.

Opera cannot do this - and people on their forums have reacted quite negatively whenever I mention it.
Click to expand...

Opera (10 at least) does this now. It's under "tools -> preferences -> advanced -> tabs -> when closing a tab", set it to "Activate first tab opened from current tab". This option was specifically added to do what Firefox does and may even become the default option in Opera in the future.
 
Meh, Opera are just butt hurt because they have such a tiny market share.

You don't need to be the default browser for windows in order to get a good market share, firefox is in the same position as Opera and is doing really well.

At the end of the day most people don't care what browser they use, given a list to pick from when installing windows will result in most people either picking the "default" or "recommended" which MS will make sure is IE anyway, even if they dont and people are left to pick the chances are they will go with what they know and chose internet explorer.

Opera aren't going to magically boost their market share this way, I hope they understand that.
 
Lebowski said:
I'd like to ask Opera who it is they think people will get their browser if MS doesn't include one wit the windows install? Hmm, no web browser means I can't go online to get another browser.
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You don't need a web browser to to download a web browser. There could be a browser fetch utility that you're presented with that fetches setup files at predefined, agreed-upon locations. This could even be just simple web page with direct links. The user would choose which one(s) to install. Of course, MS would probably put IE in the top of the list so that users that don't know anything tend to pick it. But, the list could be randomized on load everytime if MS was forced to do that.

But, having IE bundled isn't exactly the problem. It's bundling any browser that's so far behind the times in standards support. IE8 has CSS mostly up to par, but it's DOM support is still from the middle ages. Who the hell releases a full-fledged browser without addEventListener support for example?

IE being so sucky affects Opera more than Safari and Firefox because sites tend to send Opera IE branches of code and markup. MS basically has Opera by the balls saying, "Implement all our IEisms, or convince sites to add you to the Firefox/Safari branch or fail".

Maybe Opera needs to get rid of window.opera, add "like Gecko" to its UA string and copy all Firefox's bugs and behavior whether they're standards compliant or not. Then, Opera can add support for extensions. Then, Opera can advertise in the U.S. That ought to do it.

GORANKAR said:
I can see perhaps putting shortcuts to Opera, Chrome, FF, and other alternative browsers on the desktop at install. Or maybe have a tab come up on IE's first run that led to alternative browsers.
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Yes, something like that would be good enough.
 
Shadow2531 said:
This could even be just simple web page with direct links
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Ignore that in that context. What I meant to say is that there's usually a way to get a direct links to each browser's setup file and a fetch utility could make use of them.
 
"Vista's still a retail flop" lol? ya ima ROTFLOL with this stunning quote


YOU need to brush up on your definitions or turn down the MS hate button a tad :D
 
Methadras said:
This is getting ridiculous. Look you browser fools, this is Microsoft's product and they can do with it whatever they want. The fact that you aren't "happy" that Microsoft allows the ability to 'kill' IE8 should make you do backflips, but oh no, you have to whine like a little bitch. Seriously, people like this need a fist up their ass to remind them of the feeling that they need to sit down, shut up, can get down to unloading their bullshit once and for all.
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This is the funniest (and truest...most true...what the fuck ever) post I have read in ages. :D
 
On my main desktop, I use FF. On my netbook, I use Opera. Opera actually runs much faster on my netbook than FF does. I haven't actually figured that one out yet but oh well. I do like Opera and its features and actually have it installed alongside FF on my desktop. I just never use it that much. Opera just needs to stop whining and realize that in order to make money, you have to spend money i.e advertising. Most casual users (the majority of the market nowadays) probably have never heard of Opera and if Opera wants that to change, they better start getting their name out there more.
 
Europeans whining again about Americans in anti-trust suits? This isn't news. This is a daily occurrence isn't it?
 
"Vista's still a retail flop" lol? ya ima ROTFLOL with this stunning quote
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It is a retail flop. Don't confuse new system pre-installed OS sales for retail sales. There is no option for XP anymore or it would still be going strong. I use Vista (well Win7 Beta now) and until I went 64bit to use the 6GB of ram on my i7 there was no compelling reason to use Vista in the x86 arena.
 
"It doesn't really change much, does it?" Opera CEO Jon von Tetzchner asks rhetorically. "We want to make sure everybody follows the rules and ensure there's competition in the market."
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Why doesn't Opera go out and amke an operating system that runs on most any machine and become the standard for the world? But then by thier line of logic, Microsoft could companion and whine too...

"If a man can write a better book, preach a better sermon, or make a better mousetrap, than his neighbor, though he build his house in the woods, the world will make a beaten path to his door." - Ralph Waldo Emerson,
 
pxc said:
IE8 comes out on Friday, right?
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Is this news to most people? I'm seriously not sure. Take a look (what I use for WinUpdates & RSS Feeds only): IE8 RC1.

IE8RC1.png
 
Slyr7.62 said:
Is this news to most people? I'm seriously not sure. Take a look (what I use for WinUpdates & RSS Feeds only): IE8 RC1.

IE8RC1.png
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The only news I have seen was that IE8 was supposed to launch in Taiwan on Friday....do you have a better source?

I have been using Windows 7 Build 7057 for a little while and have not had any issues with IE8 at all, although FF is my main browser.
 
Dekoth said:
How are you confused? Anyone who has used pretty much any browser except opera in the past 10 years are pretty well aware why they don't use it unless forced. :D Opera Rates only slightly above Juno, People PC and AoL's custom browsers. :p
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Really...it runs a lot faster then latest Mozilla FF or IE w/e on my machine. Plus the ability to customize my speeddial links and mouse gestures just annihlates ff.
 
They're whining. They should stop. It's annoying. I paid for Opera twice back when they charged (one full release, then an upgrade). I'd use them again if they had extensions like Firefox.
 
Slyr7.62 said:
Is this news to most people? I'm seriously not sure. Take a look (what I use for WinUpdates & RSS Feeds only): IE8 RC1.
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A little off topic

He meant the final version, not the RC or beta versions.

It was said that the final verison will be out in Taiwan on Friday which had people speculationg that it would be out everywhere friday or sooner.

I did some looking and found this. I'm not sure how good this source is (http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=621&pgno=1) but they say first wave is going to be released March 19 (tomorrow) at which point it will be on the Microsoft download page. Next week all users that have the beta or rc 1 installed will have their installs upgradable by windows update, everyone else will get it via windows update the week of april 13th. Automatic updates will push it out april 27th.

So if any of that is actually true, we should be able to download the final version tomorrow or friday.

Back to topic.

I have to agree with Renegade_Azzy, some of these companies need to just make their own OS and get it over with. The average person doesn't give a damn about what they use to get online. They just want to get online. They aren't going to want to have to deal with all the head aches of having to install a program when they first setup the machine. Although people talking about not needing a browser are over looking the idea that not everyone will be online but might need a broswer anyway. Either that or they might need a browser to get online to begin with. How do you configure your new wireless access point to get online if you don't have a browswer to configure it? What about dsl / cable modems, or other equipment that requires configuration to be used? What about those with dialup?

There are a few different cases where needing to be online to get a browser isn't always going to work.

And truth be told, is a pain in the ass for the average user. Most people dont' know there is anything other than IE and don't care, some try to use firefox and notice it is different than IE and don't like that. I've had a few people bring me computers asking me to remove firefox that somebody put on there for them. Those that truely care about what browser they use are smart enough to get their own browser. If Opera wants better market share then they need to get their name out there more. Microsoft shouldn't have to help others get noticed.
 
kirbyrj said:
Google will come out with an OS before Opera ever does.
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goobuntu.jpg


it already exists, just not for anyone outside their offices. anyway, it has already been said...

this is just Opera looking for media exposure to coincide with the new IE release.
 
burnin8r said:
goobuntu.jpg


it already exists, just not for anyone outside their offices. anyway, it has already been said...

this is just Opera looking for media exposure to coincide with the new IE release.
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eh, I wouldn't call making yet another Linux distro a "Google operating system".
 
Opera's argument makes about as much sense as if GM were to whine that Ford was using it's own engines in a Ford car/truck/SUV/etc.

Hey, why don't we whine that Steve Jobs uses an iPhone...I mean, really, Opera, get over it.
 
Methadras said:
This is getting ridiculous. Look you browser fools, this is Microsoft's product and they can do with it whatever they want. The fact that you aren't "happy" that Microsoft allows the ability to 'kill' IE8 should make you do backflips, but oh no, you have to whine like a little bitch. Seriously, people like this need a fist up their ass to remind them of the feeling that they need to sit down, shut up, can get down to unloading their bullshit once and for all.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no one is bitching (this goes double for Opera) at Apple for only supplying Safari on their OS so why is Microsoft being focused on? Because of their popularity in the market so they are a much easier target. Simply the Microsoft created the OS and they can put on it what they chose, its not like they are blocking 3rd Parties from writing their own to run on the OS.

So I guess Opera only sees it two ways: A. No Browser Preloaded (makes it hard to get to the internet though...) B. Every browser is preloaded (who wants all that shit on their PC?)
 
E7130 said:
Yeah, no one is bitching (this goes double for Opera) at Apple for only supplying Safari on their OS so why is Microsoft being focused on?
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Because MS, by way of Windows, is a monopoly and it purposely uses that advantage to make competition unfair.

It's not important yet whether Apple or Ubuntu for example are bundled with a certain browser. If that changes, one of them could be target for action.

Of course, laws aside, if you don't believe there's anything wrong with a monopoly, then this all seems ridiculous.

But, I doubt Opera will get anywhere with this and I think it'd be much cooler if they crushed IE on their own.
 
DeadSkull said:
Really...it runs a lot faster then latest Mozilla FF or IE w/e on my machine. Plus the ability to customize my speeddial links and mouse gestures just annihlates ff.
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Then you did something wrong, opera is slower on pretty much everything I have used it on.

Also, lack of a decent download manager, lack of a decent ad blocker, lack of a decent script blocker, lack of decent media integration...the list goes on and on and on. Nevermind the fact that Opera's bookmark handling and organization is just plain atrocious. :p
 
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