Overdrive PC Core2.X-Fire @ [H] Consumer

[rinaldo00]

Oohh I just wet my pants

Although, since your getting a hyperclocked system, drop it down to a E6600 and save a little bit of money because in the end, they are all the same chips with different multipliers and since you aren't doing the work, it doesn't matter!

Thanks for the comment! Dropping down to the E6600 would save me $800. But how much of a performace hit would there be from a X6800 overclocked to 3600MHz?

 

[Dark Prodigy]

Jason..

You'll see an evaluation on Wednesday that's all about style, sophistication, and great overall integration

This is what you told me in another thread, but unfortunately I'm disappointed. Let me tell you why: First I think that the Overdrive PC Core2.X-Fire is a very capable machine for what its built for...speed. The CoolerMaster Stacker 830 is a nice case as most would agree, but I saw no more integration with this than any other run-of-the-mill builder.

"Overdrive has modified the PC slightly by affixing its logo to both sides and to the front of the case. It is available in both silver and black."

That's not even close to integration in my opinion. Whatever happened to building a system that has an unmistakingly proprietary design and theme. Even the box it was shipped in wasn't 'Overdrive PC'. I didn't know CoolerMaster was a builder.. If I'm paying a professional builder more than $3,000 for a PC, I don't want what any other guy could build in his garage.

The wiring job on the Core2.X-Fire was nice and clean, well managed, and routed, but I have a problem with your comparison.

The interior of the chassis is easily one of the cleanest and most well-conceived we’ve ever seen. <snip> Although Voodoo is known in the “review” world as the king of clean wiring, the Voodoo Hexx we had in the office had a rather unremarkable wiring job. With the possible exception of Maingear, no one puts this much effort into wire routing at the consumer level as Overdrive has shown here.

Lets go back to Oct 11, 06 review Voodoo Hexx;

The system builders at Voodoo are legendary in making wires disappear, and appropriately, we were very pleased with the wiring job. Everything was kept out of the way, and it’s a very fine example of what the right amount of pride in one’s work can accomplish. Given the size of the case, the presentation quality is even more impressive.

Anyone reading this would see that this is blatantly contradictory. Why even bring a Voodoo comparison into the review of this Overdrive PC? Voodoo and Overdrive maybe in the same 'sport' per se, but Overdrive isn't even in the same league with Voodoo when it comes to class, integration, or sophistication. Or maybe it was to try and take a very cheap shot at Voodoo:

Although Overdrive can’t quite rival what Voodoo has been known to do in the “wire hiding” department, it has done a fabulous job of keeping the interior clean and tidy. Also keep in mind that this system was meant for a consumer, not a review magazine

That seemed like a cheap shot to me, and probably a few others too. My question is why... The Core2.X-Fire is a fine machine, but seriously lacks polish and identity, and Overdrive PC is a good company for what it does but finds itself outclassed by certain companies that facilitate true integration.

 

[fxrron]

I think [Hard] is getting off track with their system reviews. Do you really think I want to waste my time reading comments like "the Windows sticker was on the back of the case and would be difficult to get to"? Gemmie a break. The same thing with two video cards would have been faster. I ordered a $4300 system from them three weeks ago. I could care less about a binder and other cute stuff. I'm glad they are using all of their resources to build the fastest system that I can purchase. You seem to be
putting to much emphasis on things that really don't matter or are easily corrected. Falcon and Voodoo get nowhere near the CPU and GPU overclocks that OPC does, [even on water], nor do they guarantee or even estimate their overclocks. For now my view is [HARD]=Limp System Reviews.

Ron

 

[elguerro55]

A significant concern of ours was that a certain slice of consumers aren't going to be comfortable in solving their own problems, and they may run into some issues with the advanced hardware and software configuration. I also think they'd want a bit more in the way of accessory organization. In the long run, I think OPC will do whatever it takes to help out their customer, though, and that goes a long way with us.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

I have to go with Jason here. I also have been following OPC for a long while and I have a great deal of respect for what they have achieved and for their product. Still, my concerns that an OPC PC would be a lot of trouble to own have kept me from purchasing one of their machines. This review seems to validate my concerns on this point.

But, even if the machine had run perfectly the fact that almost any upgrade, like upgrading your video card, necessitates shipping the PC back to the shop would still make me think twice about owning an OPC. Those shipping costs add significantly to the cost of owning the PC, not to mention the inconvenience of being without my PC for a week or two. To his credit, Mario has always been very upfront making this know to potential customers.

 

[Josh_Norem]

I disagree we're getting off track. Our goal has always been to provide the most comprehensive PC reviews ever, and you would have to agree that no other site or magazine delves to the depths that we do. We cover EVERYTHING, and no stone is left unturned in our evaluation process.

If you just want the numbers, go read other sites or magazines who just take it out of the box, benchmark it and give it a "gold" award. A lot of integrators make fast systems. Heck, it's not difficult to do that at all. What truly separates the wheat from the chaff is those who go the extra mile in all the other areas of the "total customer experience" we've been preaching about all this time: documentation, presentation, packaging, build quality, custom wiring, tech support, RMA and warranty support, and so on.

No other venue covers each of those aspects in its evaluations, and according to reader and vendor feedback our attention to detail is much appreciated.

 

[rinaldo00]

I can only speak for myself, but I could not care less about how a system looks, it is all about performance. The PC could be in a cardboard box if it posted scores like the OPC did. Some guy in a garage isn't going to set a Worldbench record. If my money is going toward that and not "system integration" then it is money well spent.

 

[Josh_Norem]

I have to go with Jason here. I also have been following OPC for a long while and I have a great deal of respect for what they have achieved and for their product. Still, my concerns that an OPC PC would be a lot of trouble to own have kept me from purchasing one of their machines. This review seems to validate my concerns on this point.

But, even if the machine had run perfectly the fact that almost any upgrade, like upgrading your video card, necessitates shipping the PC back to the shop would still make me think twice about owning an OPC. Those shipping costs add significantly to the cost of owning the PC, not to mention the inconvenience of being without my PC for a week or two. To his credit, Mario has always been very upfront making this know to potential customers.

Upgrades do not require you to ship the PC back to the manufacturer. The video card can be removed in this case if you pull the motheboard tray out about two inches. Or you can just use a philips head drill bit and loosen the screws that way (it worked for us with the new card).

 

[kwaichangkang]

That seemed like a cheap shot to me, and probably a few others too. My question is why... The Core2.X-Fire is a fine machine, but seriously lacks polish and identity, and Overdrive PC is a good company for what it does but finds itself outclassed by certain companies that facilitate true integration.

Outclassed? OPC is in a class by themselves with their product and what they offer their customers. While I am not a customer of theirs, I see the value in their product and understand the premium that they charge.

OCP has to be the ultimate integrator. What is overclocking but a entire integration of CPU, Motherboard, RAM, computer case, fans and Operating System to work in combination to increase the speed of the entire system? What the hell more do you want?

Smells like you got a agenda Dark Prodigy.

 

[onetwenty8k]

Question for Chris and Mario. As an owner of a computer company and as a developer, do you ever have the feeling that you're being evaluated by [H]? Say a shipment to Texas (I'm assuming that's where they go to some random house ) and then problems arise, they ask for a replacement. If I owned a boutique computer place, I would be scared of the [H]. Just wondering if you share the same fright.

 

[ChrisMorley]

Question for Chris and Mario. As an owner of a computer company and as a developer, do you ever have the feeling that you're being evaluated by [H]? Say a shipment to Texas (I'm assuming that's where they go to some random house ) and then problems arise, they ask for a replacement. If I owned a boutique computer place, I would be scared of the [H]. Just wondering if you share the same fright.

We're a huge company (70+ employees) in the context of this market. For the most part, the only systems that come through my labs that are actual client work orders are Raptor Signature Editions, where we overclock them like mad-men. It's also where Randy comes in and does a "laying of hands" and blesses the configuration and performance. That's what the Signature Edition is all about. Our other systems get all the personalized touches and thorough burn-in/testing, but once we get into full-system overclocking, we have to take even more time, so they come back to us as to not get in the way of the craftsmanship of our clients who may have purchased a "quick ship" system.

So the answer is "no" - [H] didn't buy a Sig Edition so it wouldn't have come through the labs. My R&D team doesn't get involved in the day-to-day production of systems all that much. There are some very wicked technicians out on the floor that know their stuff.

Our job is to supply them with the latest tested and qualified BIOSs, images, drivers, integration information, etc...

As to being "afraid," of course not. And I'm positive Mario isn't either. There's something comforting about knowing you're not in the business to screw people over, so you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.

 

[OPC|Mario]

Question for Chris and Mario. As an owner of a computer company and as a developer, do you ever have the feeling that you're being evaluated by [H]? Say a shipment to Texas (I'm assuming that's where they go to some random house ) and then problems arise, they ask for a replacement. If I owned a boutique computer place, I would be scared of the [H]. Just wondering if you share the same fright.

Actually, I would say 1-in-8 machines is a Texan. This is a very popular state for us as well as New York. All of the folks who have been reviewed consented to being reviewed and have the option of backing-out at any time. As far as we are concerned, we have a sterling reputation in the industry and amongst our community. No one is perfect even though this is not a valid excuse for a business, we still expect to be tripped-up from time to time. We are making quick-efforts to improve on our presentation, packaging and appearance and I make no excuses for our state up until now. But again, we have always been most concerned about the product itself and its function. Aside from an unexplained “DOA” VGA adapter, the machine itself was very functional once resolved.

Let’s see how well we fare next go-around with [H] and if Overdrive PC has delivered on its promise to respond.

 

[Stoney]

I disagree we're getting off track. Our goal has always been to provide the most comprehensive PC reviews ever, and you would have to agree that no other site or magazine delves to the depths that we do. We cover EVERYTHING, and no stone is left unturned in our evaluation process.

If you just want the numbers, go read other sites or magazines who just take it out of the box, benchmark it and give it a "gold" award. A lot of integrators make fast systems. Heck, it's not difficult to do that at all. What truly separates the wheat from the chaff is those who go the extra mile in all the other areas of the "total customer experience" we've been preaching about all this time: documentation, presentation, packaging, build quality, custom wiring, tech support, RMA and warranty support, and so on.

No other venue covers each of those aspects in its evaluations, and according to reader and vendor feedback our attention to detail is much appreciated.

I agree Josh, i was simply blown away with this and every Hardocp evaluation i've read so far.
I haven't seen another forum or mag do as thorough job at reviewing or evaluating a system as you guys do. Awesome job.

Even though i build my own systems it's nice to know there are still top notch vendors out there like OCP and the others. kudos

 

[Riddlinkidstoner]

Question for Mario of OPC.

You do guarantee overclocks but I'm sure you encounter the dud chip every once in awhile. When that happens, you just swap it out for the next chip right? Do you take into account what week/stepping every chip is to ensure it will give a good OC? I'm curious about this process and how to reflects your inventory and financials because you can't just put the dud chips into other peoples machines because, lets face it, people go to you for overclocking.

 

[littledoc]

That seemed like a cheap shot to me, and probably a few others too. My question is why... The Core2.X-Fire is a fine machine, but seriously lacks polish and identity, and Overdrive PC is a good company for what it does but finds itself outclassed by certain companies that facilitate true integration.

I think this complain seems a bit nebulous. There isn't a single boutique out there that does totally custom components. Take the case for example, which seems to be your biggest complaint. Voodoo uses Lian-Li cases (Zalman on the Epic), as do Maingear and Hypersonic. Alienware uses run of the mill Chieftech cases with their signature plastic shell over them. Falcon Northwest uses a plain old Silverstone TJ03 case with their logo laser-cut on the front. There's nothing particularly custom or remarkable about any of these cases aside from a little company paint.

If you have the time, knowledge, and inclination, there's not anything in terms of design that any builder does that "some guy in a garage" can't do. The thing to ask is, could you really do what OPC does? A 1.1ghz overclock using a rather humble aftermarket cooler, totally quiet and totally stable is not something an amateur can easily do (and something no one can do without voiding their warranty and perhaps risking hardware failure), and something that no other boutique will do. One of the editors remarked that "anyone can build a fast PC", and there is some truth to that, but not everyone can take a PC to the limits of its capabilities.

I'm not a customer of OPC, at least not yet. I'm a DIY-er, and I've built my own nicely overclocked and tweaked-out system. I've tried very hard to build a boutique-quality PC, and through many months of hard work and refinement I can confidently say that in most respects I've succeeded. But I'm continually impressed at the finer touches OPC puts on their systems, from the wiring on the case fans to the resistor on the CPU fan, and frankly there are only a handful of boutiques left that will go to the lengths OPC will to help out their customers.

No company is perfect, and a $3,000-$4,000 PC is not for everyone, but I for one would rather spend that money on performance and customer service than an elaborate company logo.

 

[r00k]

Even though i build my own systems it's nice to know there are still top notch vendors out there like OPC and the others. kudos

Quoted FOR TRUTH. OverDrivePC does not misrepresent, and their philosophy really shows through. Yet again, I am reminded of something Mario told me in correspondence several months ago via email. I quote him: "The DIY’s are the very folks that I set out to grab the attention and support of even though 99% of them will always be a DIY." Building PC's to the highest expectation of the very crowd that he feels would likely never buy from him; never ceases to impress me.

Once again, i can't wait to see the next [H] review of OPC. No doubt, the gloves will be off, no holds will be barred (in other words, another standard {great} [H] review), and we will hopefully see the reigning champ make good on their slight shortcomings from this round.

 

[Jason_Wall]

Jason..

This is what you told me in another thread, but unfortunately I'm disappointed. Let me tell you why: First I think that the Overdrive PC Core2.X-Fire is a very capable machine for what its built for...speed. The CoolerMaster Stacker 830 is a nice case as most would agree, but I saw no more integration with this than any other run-of-the-mill builder.

That's not even close to integration in my opinion. Whatever happened to building a system that has an unmistakingly proprietary design and theme. Even the box it was shipped in wasn't 'Overdrive PC'. I didn't know CoolerMaster was a builder.. If I'm paying a professional builder more than $3,000 for a PC, I don't want what any other guy could build in his garage.

The wiring job on the Core2.X-Fire was nice and clean, well managed, and routed, but I have a problem with your comparison.

Lets go back to Oct 11, 06 review Voodoo Hexx;

Anyone reading this would see that this is blatantly contradictory. Why even bring a Voodoo comparison into the review of this Overdrive PC? Voodoo and Overdrive maybe in the same 'sport' per se, but Overdrive isn't even in the same league with Voodoo when it comes to class, integration, or sophistication. Or maybe it was to try and take a very cheap shot at Voodoo:

That seemed like a cheap shot to me, and probably a few others too. My question is why... The Core2.X-Fire is a fine machine, but seriously lacks polish and identity, and Overdrive PC is a good company for what it does but finds itself outclassed by certain companies that facilitate true integration.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I'm sorry, but you're in the weeds if you can't see how the quality of integration is different here than with other builders.

Only one other company that I know of puts as much innovation into their PC integration as OPC does, and that's BioHazard. Voodoo does nothing on the consumer level in their integration that a whole host of other integrators already do. Now, for review systems, it's very different. Our point in the article is that OPC delivers this kind of integration, personal attention, and innovation for every consumer. No one does that in the landscape. That's OPC's entire business model and that's why they've been successful. In our strong opinion, there are very few companies that can outclass OPC, and in our experience, Voodoo is not one of them.

The comparison made between Voodoo and OPC was very well founded as they're the exact same type of company (a boutique builder), catering to the exact same consumer base (well-to-do enthusiasts who want a pre-built), and were (at the time) available for the same price (around $3K). So, I suppose I don't know why it's not kosher to compare these builders. In my experience, Voodoo has a lot to show me in order to prove that they are on the same level of service and design innovation as OPC is. I could care less about what I see in a review magazine. I want to know how the consumer is treated overall.

I'm sorry that you thought I was taking a potshot at Voodoo - that wasn't my intention. However, Voodoo is a prime example (as are a few others) that what people see in review magazines is almost NEVER what a consumer receives. And that's a primary tenet of our program. We cut through the fluff and find out what John Q. Public actually receives for his hard-earned money.

I agree that the comments made in the Voodoo article contradict the comments made in the OPC article to a degree. The main rationale for that is that two different writers penned those articles and they had different takes on what makes for a clean wire-up. It was probably a bit strong to say that Voodoo had an unremarkable wiring job, because that's not completely true. A lot of what they did was quite nice. It wasn't what we see in their Omen review boxes, but it wasn't a dog, and I'm sorry if it came across like that.

 

[Jason_Wall]

I think [Hard] is getting off track with their system reviews. Do you really think I want to waste my time reading comments like "the Windows sticker was on the back of the case and would be difficult to get to"? Gemmie a break. The same thing with two video cards would have been faster. I ordered a $4300 system from them three weeks ago. I could care less about a binder and other cute stuff. I'm glad they are using all of their resources to build the fastest system that I can purchase. You seem to be
putting to much emphasis on things that really don't matter or are easily corrected. Falcon and Voodoo get nowhere near the CPU and GPU overclocks that OPC does, [even on water], nor do they guarantee or even estimate their overclocks. For now my view is [HARD]=Limp System Reviews.

Ron

Thanks for your thoughts.

Let's keep things in perspective, shall we? First of all, OPC wasn't punished for their placement of the Windows sticker. It was a comment that we made in the hopes that they will change its location to a more convenient spot for everyone.

Second, the so called "little" things are what make good companies great. Filling in the holes and going the extra mile to improve the overall ownership experience are traits that are heartily awarded in our program. We certainly recognize that OPC had some great overclocking performance, and they were so-awarded. Honestly, I'm not sure what your gripe is. They received a rather favorable evaluation and they can now go back to the drawing board with a list of things to fix to make the ownership experience better for their future customers.

If you want a numbers comparison and for all of our conclusions to be based off of those, I can give you a list of about 10 great review magazines that do just that, but offer nothing in the way of describing what owning a computer is actually like.

 

[Jason_Wall]

I can only speak for myself, but I could not care less about how a system looks, it is all about performance. The PC could be in a cardboard box if it posted scores like the OPC did. Some guy in a garage isn't going to set a Worldbench record. If my money is going toward that and not "system integration" then it is money well spent.

Thanks for your thoughts. As I told the reader above, there are a bunch of review magazines that I'm sure you'd love to read that do just that - compare raw numbers. That's not what we're about, as those numbers tell us nothing about what it's like to work with that particular company. And yes, a guy in a garage can set a WorldBench record if he knows his hardware. I don't think I'd want to buy a computer from him, though.

 

[onetwenty8k]

Thanks for your thoughts. As I told the reader above, there are a bunch of review magazines that I'm sure you'd love to read that do just that - compare raw numbers. That's not what we're about, as those numbers tell us nothing about what it's like to work with that particular company. And yes, a guy in a garage can set a WorldBench record if he knows his hardware. I don't think I'd want to buy a computer from him, though.

Good Point. I am happy that you changed the rating to Recommended, it was well deserved. I'm a big fan of [H] reviews. Always have been, always will be. Thanks.

 

[rinaldo00]

Thanks for your thoughts. As I told the reader above, there are a bunch of review magazines that I'm sure you'd love to read that do just that - compare raw numbers. That's not what we're about, as those numbers tell us nothing about what it's like to work with that particular company. And yes, a guy in a garage can set a WorldBench record if he knows his hardware. I don't think I'd want to buy a computer from him, though.

Why not? If he threw in a 1 or 2 year warantee it would be great

Seriously though, I enjoy reading the full review but performance trumps the rest for me. I would not mind some cut corners on the website, the packaging, presentation, case logos, etc if it gets me super frame rates!

 

[jon67]

...or why not add a 47 ohm resistor to the fan and throttle the noise to an inaudible level (as we do in all of our shipping systems as well as the one reviewed here.)

"Since this is a mightily overclocked machine, the biggest concerns we’d have on a day-to-day basis are noise and heat, but the Overdrive didn’t register any complaints with us in those departments."

"One might think that with its five 120mm case fans and adjustable-speed CPU fan, the Core2.X-Fire would be quite noisy, but it’s actually rather quiet."

Because a bigger heatpipe-based cooler would also give you lower CPU temps. 77C under load is a bit high.

I guess the original fan is not spinning as high as 10000 rpm, this reading is probably flawed by the added resistor. The air noise from a 92mm at 10krpm would be insane.

 

[Finkus]

What a fantastic review, as usual from [H] !

I have the same chassis, which I just adore but there are a few niggly issues I've had with it, like this chap here:

Or I could be wrong. Have problems been noticed with other cards and the 830's by anyone? It doesn't look like the other cards in the system reviewed are full width so that might explain why they didn't display problems.

My 8800GTX isn't completely seated in the PCI express slot of my eVGA 680i board either. The edge towards the back of the case is ever so slightly lifted compared to the front for the same reason you have with your PCI card. The case screw area is slightly taller than the card. It doesn't seem to cause any problems with the card's functioning though. It happened in both PCIx16 slots.

Also I found that the optional fan housing in the roof of the case impinges on ATX certified power supplies that have rear connectors or fans in a particular spot. My original Silverstone Zeus 850W had a fan at the back and the fan guard was pressed right up against the case's fan housing. The PSU wouldn't fit in the case! I've had to scour reviews for photos that show PSU's and find an appropriate replacement that I know will fit. (Eventually ordered the new Coolermaster RealPower Pro 850W)

But the reason why I wanted to post was that I was about to buy some side fans to put in the mounted rack and was going for a single 120mm fan with blue LED's. What arrangement did OPC use to get all four fans running off the same 3pin connector? It's interesting that [H] noted the GPU fan having to speed up less because of the large side fan array. I may go for four fans myself too.

 

[trick_m0nkey]

As to being "afraid," of course not. And I'm positive Mario isn't either. There's something comforting about knowing you're not in the business to screw people over, so you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.

Quoted for freaking truth. If that's not a good answer, then there are blizzards in Dallas.

 

[EasyX]

As a new OPC customer, I think the review was right on especially regarding tech support. I'm one of those consumers that is definitely not a diyer but know enough to get by and hopefully not totally *&^# it up.

But, I love my pc games and didn't mind shelling out the bucks to get one. After much research I decided on OPC. One of the deciding factors was the original [H] review.

I purchased a system in August from OPC and received it sometime in September. It has worked perfectly out of the box and the performance has been fantastic. I've spoken to Aaron several times for some how to questions here and there and he has been unbelievably patient and helpful. I never once felt that Aaron was being impatient or tired of quesetions. If he was, he hides it very well....LOL! The tech support OPC delivers is exceptional.

I cannot even begin to convey how pleased I am with my decision to purchase from OPC.

William

 

[ikjadoon]

Finally, the review I've been waiting for! Very happy the rating on it has been changed or else you would've been reading a page long rant, lol, jk. Firm supporter of OPC, have been since I saw their review on cNet a few years back...I recognize a few short comings, but I am sure OPC will be the first to recognize them and fix them, i.e. the instructions for the Ghost Image.

Impressed, nice one, [H].

~Ibrahim~

 

[elguerro55]

Upgrades do not require you to ship the PC back to the manufacturer. The video card can be removed in this case if you pull the motheboard tray out about two inches. Or you can just use a philips head drill bit and loosen the screws that way (it worked for us with the new card).

I know that, physically, it's possible for the consumer to replace the video card, but I was under the impression that the PC had to be returned to the shop for OPC to implement custom settings. Maybe I'm wrong about that and, if so, I appreciate the clarification.

I know that I've read in the OPC forums, admittedly a while ago, postings by Mario advising buyers to get the components they want on their PC now, rather than waiting to add memory, etc. later because upgrading would require the PC to be shipped back to the shop. Am I misinterpreting or have things perhaps changed?

Just FYI, the [H] is the first hardware site I go to when I want hardware news. In fact, I very seldom visit other such sites, anymore. You guys do a great job.

 

[Keetha]

I haven't read all of the comments but... I just wanted to say this was a very good read and I'm glad to have heard about a company like this. I personally build all my computers myself, but I feel proud to know there is a group like this out there for people who want top notch quality that they can't provide themselves.

 

[littledoc]

Because a bigger heatpipe-based cooler would also give you lower CPU temps. 77C under load is a bit high.

I guess the original fan is not spinning as high as 10000 rpm, this reading is probably flawed by the added resistor. The air noise from a 92mm at 10krpm would be insane.

Something a lot of people don't seem to realize is that heat is irrelevant as long as 1) it's within the safe operating parameters of the processors and 2) the system is stable.

 

[mikeczyz]

as usual, a great job evaluating a custom built pc.

 

[Josh_Norem]

I know that, physically, it's possible for the consumer to replace the video card, but I was under the impression that the PC had to be returned to the shop for OPC to implement custom settings. Maybe I'm wrong about that and, if so, I appreciate the clarification.

I know that I've read in the OPC forums, admittedly a while ago, postings by Mario advising buyers to get the components they want on their PC now, rather than waiting to add memory, etc. later because upgrading would require the PC to be shipped back to the shop. Am I misinterpreting or have things perhaps changed?

Just FYI, the [H] is the first hardware site I go to when I want hardware news. In fact, I very seldom visit other such sites, anymore. You guys do a great job.

They do a lot of custom settings in the BIOS, so the only reason I can see you'd need to send it back would be if you flashed the BIOS or accidentally set everything to defaults.

 

[ikjadoon]

And even then, they've got to be careful. A lot of people go under the ruse that they "accidentally" flashed their BIOS and now they're computer is at stock again. "Could you send me another BIOS or tell me the settings you used?" And these people didn't even buy an OPC.

"Attention All Overdrive PC Customers! Over the years (and especially as of late) we have received countless 'bogus' e-mails and phone calls attempting to acquire our methods and 'tweaks' pertaining to how we manufacture and optimize our systems. It would be very simple for someone to come to our forums and find a customer who owns one of our systems and simply contact them through a private message and attempt to acquire, photographs, BIOS settings, voltages, timings, etc.

Please help us to protect our products by not sharing such information that could allow our competitors to duplicate our hard work and research.

Thank you for your continued support!"

~Ibrahim~

 

[littledoc]

I know that, physically, it's possible for the consumer to replace the video card, but I was under the impression that the PC had to be returned to the shop for OPC to implement custom settings. Maybe I'm wrong about that and, if so, I appreciate the clarification.

I don't know first hand, but there's no reason that the OPC team couldn't write the overclocked settings to the card's BIOS. That way all the customer has to do is pop it in.

 

[aread22]

Yes, thanks. In the system BIOS, there are options for IDE, RAID, and AHCI. The system would only boot with it set to IDE.

If the board is showing those options then AHCI would be the choice with 1 hdd. On the boards I have had experience with I only had IDE and RAID; and enabling RAID in turn enabled AHCI.

Great Review by the way.

 

[OPC|Mario]

I don't know first hand, but there's no reason that the OPC team couldn't write the overclocked settings to the card's BIOS. That way all the customer has to do is pop it in.

We have been doing that for over a year now. Just by using the option "Load Factory Settings", you will pop your originally shipped BIOS numbers right back in.

 

[RedOctober]

"Attention All Overdrive PC Customers! Over the years (and especially as of late) we have received countless 'bogus' e-mails and phone calls attempting to acquire our methods and 'tweaks' pertaining to how we manufacture and optimize our systems. It would be very simple for someone to come to our forums and find a customer who owns one of our systems and simply contact them through a private message and attempt to acquire, photographs, BIOS settings, voltages, timings, etc.

Please help us to protect our products by not sharing such information that could allow our competitors to duplicate our hard work and research.

Thank you for your continued support!"

~Ibrahim~

Wow - I seriously thought you were kidding when you posted that. I've since found out that no, you weren't - that is actually the position of the company when they build a PC.

Link

Mario, et. all - you've got every right to run your company any way you see fit. But I'll give you my two cents:

If you are that concerned about competitors seeing the BIOS settings you use, OPC is in serious trouble. BIOS settings are not "markable" intellectual property.

With all due respect, OPC does not hold the monopoly on tweaking a BIOS for maximum performance. I've been in your shoes, and if the only thing that made my product worth purchasing was "proprietary and secret" BIOS "tweaks", I'd have gotten the heck out of the industry in a hurry. It is my job to make the product desirable - which is the product of many, many, things - not just BIOS settings.

If you want to be respected in the industry, recognize that no one specific set of secret information is going to make your product "the best". C'mon - we all know that OPC, like all boutique builders, uses off-the-shelf hardware and publicly available software.

I'm not here to just call you out. I'll offer my opinion. Here's what I'd do:

Whenever you get that call, tell them exactly what they want to know without hesitation.

• If it is your customer, you are providing good service without having to treat them like a liar to get help.
• If they are not your customer, your willingness to be forthright about your skill may impress them. That, combined with your friendliness, is likely to earn you customers and respect in the industry.
• If it is a competitor, they are either (a) not capable of figuring it out themselves, and are likely not real competition, or (b) likely to then believe that the best they are capable of is "innovation" through duplicating someone else's success. Good luck on that, unknown competitor.

If you do come across someone who is obviously trying to better OPC PC's performance, tell them: "Great - good luck. We've got significant capital in our R&D efforts to make ours the fastest out there. It's unlikely that you will succeed. If you really can make one faster, you need to be working for me." Then hire them if they really are that good.

Remember - if your competition really wanted your tweaks, they'd just buy one and return it. End of story. I'd put your focus into making your whole product package so desirable that knowing some BIOS settings won't allow someone to replicate the total "OPC Experience" .

 

[kwaichangkang]

Wow - I seriously thought you were kidding when you posted that. I've since found out that no, you weren't - that is actually the position of the company when they build a PC.

Link

Mario, et. all - you've got every right to run your company any way you see fit. But I'll give you my two cents:

If you are that concerned about competitors seeing the BIOS settings you use, OPC is in serious trouble. BIOS settings are not "markable" intellectual property.

With all due respect, OPC does not hold the monopoly on tweaking a BIOS for maximum performance. I've been in your shoes, and if the only thing that made my product worth purchasing was "proprietary and secret" BIOS "tweaks", I'd have gotten the heck out of the industry in a hurry. It is my job to make the product desirable - which is the product of many, many, things - not just BIOS settings.

If you want to be respected in the industry, recognize that no one specific set of secret information is going to make your product "the best". C'mon - we all know that OPC, like all botique builders, uses off-the-shelf hardware and publicly available software.

I'm not here to just call you out. I'll offer my opinion. Here's what I'd do:

Whenever you get that call, tell them exactly what they want to know without hesitation.

• If it is your customer, you are providing good service without having to treat them like a liar to get help.
• If they are not your customer, your willingness to be forthright about your skill may impress them. That, combined with your friendliness, is likely to earn you customers and respect in the industry.
• If it is a competitor, they are either (a) not capable of figuring it out themselves, and are likely not real competition, or (b) likely to then believe that the best they are capable of is "innovation" through duplicating someone else's success. Good luck on that, unknown competitor.

If you do come across someone who is obviously trying to better OPC PC's performance, tell them: "Great - good luck. We've got significant capital in our R&D efforts to make ours the fastest out there. It's unlikely that you will succeed. If you really can make one faster, you need to be working for me." Then hire them if they really are that good.

Remember - if your competition really wanted your tweaks, they'd just buy one and return it. End of story. I'd put your focus into making your whole product package so desirable that knowing some BIOS settings won't allow someone to replicate the total "OPC Experience" .

That is a great point. Getting the BIOS settings would be one thing, but that is only one step in a 20 step process (abeit a big step)

I think that the techniques that OPC have developed is the key to them reaching untold STABLE heights with their overclocks. I mean, damn, they guarantee it! BIOS settings are fine, but I can buy a guitar like Prince, but that doesn't I'll ever be even close to playing like him just because of that guitar.

If I tried OCPs BIOS settings, I'd probably end up burning my house down lol

 

[Jason_Wall]

I'd put your focus into making your whole product package so desirable that knowing some BIOS settings won't allow someone to replicate the total "OPC Experience" .

Lots of good points, but this one really stood out. In so many words, this is what we were trying to say in the article. Make the overall ownership experience match the incredible performance of the PC and even if Joe Schmo had your BIOS settings, you're head and shoulders above them already.

 

[jon67]

Something a lot of people don't seem to realize is that heat is irrelevant as long as 1) it's within the safe operating parameters of the processors and 2) the system is stable.

In other words, heat is highly relevant here, as

1. The thermal specification of a E6600 is 60.1C (temp on top of IHS).
2. The stable CPU core temp under load was 77C.
3. Even when a 10-15C gradient over the IHS is taken into account, the thermal spec is violated.

With a machine like this I'd be running 2xFAH 24/7, and some of the WUs are actually more heat-intensive than P95. It would be nice to have a little overhead on the temp side.

Replacing the heatsink yourself is no big deal, though.

 

[Zap]

The air noise from a 92mm at 10krpm would be insane.

I also thought that strange. Last time I saw specs for 10k RPM fans... were for really small ones such as 40x20mm units. I think common 60mm fans peaked at 8000 RPM.

If the fan speed sensor is reporting wrong, could the CPU temperature also be reporting wrong? Also, what defines wrong? I recall my Abit IS7 reporting high temperatures, and after many people complained that they were seeing higher temperatures with Abit boards than other boards, a BIOS was released that "addressed" the issue by magically reporting a lower temperature putting it in-line with other manufacturers. Which temperature was right? Who knows.

Regarding the system restore, wouldn't it be easier for the customer to make it more automatic? No page of directions needed, with all the tabbing and arrowing. Just say:

"Disconnect all extra drives by pulling out the tray ½ inch, boot off DVD, click Yes."

Ghost has many command line options to automate the process. Here's one example of an AUTOEXEC.BAT that I made for my own purposes (command line options may vary by version) with some comments explaining them. I have the image file and the Ghost executable in the root of the optical disc.

# I give the optical drive letter G: so that it's always the same.
# There are ways around this to "discover" the drive but it's easier this way
mscdex.exe /d:cd /l:g

# Change letter to G:
g:

# Run Ghost.exe with command line options
ghost -clone,mode=load,src=g:\restore.gho,dst=1,szef -sure

# ghost is the executable
# -clone is the switch that allows automation with switches
# mode= is enabled with -clone telling Ghost which mode to operate in
# load tells Ghost that it is going from an image to a HDD
# src= works with mode= to tell ghost where to find the image file
# c:\restore.gho is the path to the image file, which I've called restore.gho
# dst= tells Ghost where to copy the image to
# 1 means first HDD (drive C
# szef tells Ghost to use all remaining space on HDD
# -sure works with -clone to skip extra prompts such as "Partition size correct?" and "Proceed with disk load?"

There are all kinds of other command line options to deal with multiple disks (beware of BIOS ordering, though), multiple partitions, partition sizing, etc.

 

[Dark Prodigy]

. I'd put your focus into making your whole product package so desirable that knowing some BIOS settings won't allow someone to replicate the total "OPC Experience" .

This is exactly what I'm talking about. When I said " If I'm paying $3,000 to a professional builder, I don't want what some guy could do in his garage", and all the statements about design, engineering and integration, this basically sums it up for the most part.

I believe that with such a mass market of consumers that the PC has and the readily and widely available parts for businesses and DIYers alike, it is imperative that a company's business model and product stand apart from the plethera of competition. Something that is uniquely yours and only what you can offer the consumer.

High end parts that are widely available, a case that many people already use, tweaked settings that most can experiment with themselves, a neat wiring job, and a company case badge DOES NOT set a company apart in this business.

Many people give VoodooPC™ a bad rap, mostly for its astronomical prices in comparison to hardware and specs of other companies. But I tell you this, when you buy a Voodoo pc, you get a "Voodoo PC" not just a rebranded case with tweaked high end parts. From the distinctive case design to the Koeskin binder, the experience in owning one sets its self apart as its own brand. Hell, they even change the icons in Windows to their own proprietary ones link .

Some may not care for these details, but I believe its all apart of the total experience of owning a branded PC...especially boutiques.

I appreciate the reply Jason...

And by the way, I'm not a Voodoo rep even though I make no secret of the respect I have for their work. They are the best example to me...some can say maybe Alienware, but you know..I just am not a fan of their work........