Plasma vs. LCD vs. DLP?

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Molingrad

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Im curious as to which one of these technologies give the best picture, i know Plasma is the oldest and uses charge gas particles, and that DLP is the newest developed by Texas Instruments, also that LCD is the most $ per inch.

Im wondering more about each technology and which one is the best, both for your money and if money was not an issue.
 
Plasma>LCD/DLP.

LCDs suffer from screen door effects and bad blacks (where have we heard the black issue before, LOL). DLPs have problems with rainbows seen by many people and blacks better than LCDs but not as good as plasmas or CRTs (nothing beats CRTs regarding blacks). Both LCDs and DLPs have problem with motion (dithering). Samsung DLPs have problems syncing sound with picture (I mention Samsung because they are the DLP big-boy).

I spent a year looking at rear projection TVs but finally rejected both LCDs and DLPs because there were too many compromises. Not to mention DLPs gave me headaches and the screen door effect was always present with LCDs. Plasmas are still the technology with the best picture quality. I bought a Panasonic TH-50PX50U recently and the pic quality is so superior to LCD and DLP rear projectors it is not funny. You can look at the LCD panels but they are considerably more expensive than plasmas and are still a bit inferior in image quality. Go to

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/

for in depth discussion that will keep you reading for days. A really good source for help. BTW, plasmas have dropped in price drastically the past year. Click on the forum sponsor links in the AVS forum to see.
 
Molingrad said:
Im curious as to which one of these technologies give the best picture, i know Plasma is the oldest and uses charge gas particles, and that DLP is the newest developed by Texas Instruments, also that LCD is the most $ per inch.

Im wondering more about each technology and which one is the best, both for your money and if money was not an issue.
Click to expand...

Was it your intent to use this set as a TV or a Computer Monitor? Depending on your need the answer will vary.

As for the avsforum, well unfortunutly that has long deteriorated into the worlds biggest Internet fan boy club ever. Thread after thread of people simply defending their position and buying decision.
 
Another thing to consider is burn-in.

Plasma's are quite susceptible to it. Not a real problem if you just watch tv / movies, but if you want to use it for an HTPC or with gaming consoles (for yourself or kids), plasma is probably not the best choice due to the still images being displayed for long periods of time can cause them to become burned into the screen. My first choice here would be LCD.

If I wanted the absoltue best picture quality though, I'd go for plasma simply because they look so bright and sharp from any viewing angle, and the contrast ratio is incredible.

Big difference between DLP or regualar LCD is projection vs direct view. DLPs are LCD projection tvs (project an LCD image onto the screen). Personally I'm not real big on projection tvs. The off angle viewing problems and uneven lighting has always bugged me even as far back as the front-screen projecton tvs of yesteryear.

Anyhow, just thought I'd give you that info to consider.
 
For regular TV nothing beats Plasma.

For pc display or hdtv it gets much more complicated.

Plasma doesn't have (yet) high resolution displays (there is no native 1080i Plasma that I know of), HDTV lcds look amazing and many models have good contrast and black levels so I think its a better choice.

DLP displays are all projection, depending on the brand/model, the display quality ranges from nice to OMFG!!!. Screen door effect is nearly non existant in high resolution displays and recent models also got rid of the rainbow effect. DLP projectors are pricer than their LCD counterparts but Rear Projection DLP are priced competitively against LCD displays.
 
Astral Abyss said:
Another thing to consider is burn-in.

Plasma's are quite susceptible to it. Not a real problem if you just watch tv / movies, but if you want to use it for an HTPC or with gaming consoles (for yourself or kids), plasma is probably not the best choice due to the still images being displayed for long periods of time can cause them to become burned into the screen. My first choice here would be LCD.

If I wanted the absoltue best picture quality though, I'd go for plasma simply because they look so bright and sharp from any viewing angle, and the contrast ratio is incredible.

Big difference between DLP or regualar LCD is projection vs direct view. DLPs are LCD projection tvs (project an LCD image onto the screen). Personally I'm not real big on projection tvs. The off angle viewing problems and uneven lighting has always bugged me even as far back as the front-screen projecton tvs of yesteryear.

Anyhow, just thought I'd give you that info to consider.
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I think burn in is less of a problem these days with plasmas due to better phosphor technology. Panasonic has issued a white paper on the proper break-in strategies to use....and after around 1K hours, if you have filled the screen with the picture (as opposed to displaying a 4:3 image constantly) and taken the contrast off torch mode, burn-in becomes very unlikely. Owners of NEC plasmas seem to complain more than most about image retention but image retention is temporary and is not the same as burn-in. But I would agree that HTPC is something I feel more comfortable using with an LCD than plasma.
 
Molingrad said:
Im curious as to which one of these technologies give the best picture, i know Plasma is the oldest and uses charge gas particles, and that DLP is the newest developed by Texas Instruments, also that LCD is the most $ per inch.

Im wondering more about each technology and which one is the best, both for your money and if money was not an issue.
Click to expand...


I think what you are looking for is entirely subjective which would make this VERY hard to answer in a forum. All technologies have their strengths and weaknesses and as far as I am personally concerned the absolute best way for you to make up your mind is to head to a couple of stores and look at some samples that are actually showing a HD signal and think of that as a worst case situation (since they are splitting that signal twelve ways to sunday). But you will be able to see the clear short-commings of the technology, and hopefully you will know what bugs you the most. Greenwit apparently likes plasma (I take no issue with that), but I am more partial to good DLP (ohh yeah there are crappy ones). However, I make no specific recommendations for the same reason stated above...its entirely subjective. Have fun at your local brick and mortar. And dont let anyone try and sell you a TV for retail, the markup is rediculous.
 
DLP is not the same as LCD projection (as was stated earlier). DLP uses a system of micromirrors, LCD projection is a bright light shone through a semi-transparent LCD screen then reflected back towards the viewing screen. There is also no such thing as a direct view DLP set, and I can't really imagine how would would be possible. There are RP DLP sets however.

Yes, each of the technologies has its fair share of strengths and weaknesses. Of the ones listed I personally think Plasma is by far the best looking, but only if you get a good screen. I have yet to see another digital display that matched the quality of the Pioneer Elite Plasma displays, but you pay out the ass for them. As was stated above, burn in with plasmas is technically possible, but pretty damn hard to do. Plus, many plasma screens have a 'repair' mode that displays a high intensity white image over the entire screen for a while which can often times revert burn-in.

Sony has done some great stuff with LCD projection, and the current gen XBR series LCD projection sets do look very good, and have black levels worlds above the earlier ones.

Still, for the absolute best image quality, CRT is still the way to go. I personally prefer the more film-like quality of FP or RP CRT systems to direct view, and I love my 57" Hitachi CRT RPTV, the image quality blows away anything you can get in LCD, DLP, or Plasma at the moment. But then again, CRT has some drawbacks too, such as size (sets are very bulky for the screen size), limitations in sizes of direct view sets, viewing angle issues with RP sets, and you need a pretty dark room to really enjoy an FP system.
 
I bought a Panasonic plasma a few months ago but my second choice was a rear projection CRT. I love the detail and color saturation from the plasma....with some hi-def programming the imaging is incredibly life-like. But when it comes to DVDs, I'd choose a rear projection CRT in a dim room every time. I moved my Pioneer Elite 510 CRT to a secondary room but still enjoy DVDs on it.
 
Lothar98 said:
And dont let anyone try and sell you a TV for retail, the markup is rediculous.
Click to expand...

So you mean haggle like hell at any B&M? I assume there are plenty that will just give you funny looks like "errm you pay what the price tag says to pay".. What % should I expect to take off the price? Should I ask for a manager to have them take $ off ?


My problem with threads like this is, if you read everyones post, people have such widly varied opinions and even some who sound like they know what they are talking about are actually giving false information. Sometimes you just have to take posts with a grain of salt and go do your own research and use your own eyes to judge what's better and what isn't.
 
Techx said:
So you mean haggle like hell at any B&M? I assume there are plenty that will just give you funny looks like "errm you pay what the price tag says to pay".. What % should I expect to take off the price? Should I ask for a manager to have them take $ off ?
Click to expand...

Err, some sets have major markup, some have virtually none. In general TVs aren't a high margin item (at least not nearly as high margin as speakers and other audio equipment).

To get an idea of what the store might have invested in the set you can look around online first, usually the lowest prices you see online are pretty darn close to cost for the store.

Haggling won't get you anywhere in most large B&M places, at least not on a new item. At Circuit City or Best Buy you will just get a funny look if you try to talk down the price of a new set. You might have more luck haggling at a mom and pop style TV store, but then you will also have less selection. At any place (the big chains or the little one off places) you can always haggle, and get some really awesome deals, on the 'open box' TVs. They don't want them taking up floorspace that could be used for display models, so, make an offer, work with them on it, and you can get a great set a lot cheaper.
 
NulloModo said:
Haggling won't get you anywhere in most large B&M places, at least not on a new item. At Circuit City or Best Buy you will just get a funny look if you try to talk down the price of a new set.
Click to expand...

I generally dislike Best Buy but I have had luck haggling with them on TV's.


For the OP. Best advice....go plant yourself in front of a bunch of different types and models at a good high end AV place and decide for yourself. The general drawbacks of each type are well known. Since you have that information already go decide which picture you like. Not everyone will like or notice the same things in a picture.
 
NulloModo said:
DLP is not the same as LCD projection (as was stated earlier). DLP uses a system of micromirrors, LCD projection is a bright light shone through a semi-transparent LCD screen then reflected back towards the viewing screen. There is also no such thing as a direct view DLP set, and I can't really imagine how would would be possible. There are RP DLP sets however.
Click to expand...


I refered to Direct View DLP by mistake, I meant rear projection.
 
Lothar98 said:
Have fun at your local brick and mortar. And dont let anyone try and sell you a TV for retail, the markup is rediculous.
Click to expand...

Please, oh dear God please tell me which TV’s you are referring to that have such ridiculous mark up?

I need to get me some of those for sure. The Pioneer Elite has a suggested retail that is indeed pretty high, but they go out the door at around 20 points margin if you’re lucky. When you stock several of those sets along side the Sony and Panasonic (all equally low selling margin) that’s not much return on your money.

Please, like many others do try to get your facts straight.
 
while we're at it, the best buy near my house has some RPTV's on the floor and some on a ledge about 8-10 feet off the ground... uhm, and how the #@!* do they expect us to get a good idea of the picture when we are at the worst viewing angle you can be at, momos.
 
Greenwit said:
I think burn in is less of a problem these days with plasmas due to better phosphor technology. Panasonic has issued a white paper on the proper break-in strategies to use....and after around 1K hours, if you have filled the screen with the picture (as opposed to displaying a 4:3 image constantly) and taken the contrast off torch mode, burn-in becomes very unlikely. Owners of NEC plasmas seem to complain more than most about image retention but image retention is temporary and is not the same as burn-in. But I would agree that HTPC is something I feel more comfortable using with an LCD than plasma.
Click to expand...

I thought w/ burn in, plasma only last 2- 3 yr. before your eyes can tell there is a degrade of quality.
 
The new Pannys have a life of around 60K hours.....or the number of hours it is estimated for brightness to drop to 50%. Degrading of quality.....I haven't seen much written on that. I know that CRT guns willl show a noticeable drop in brightness and color anomolies after about 4 years of regular use. That was my experience with my Pioneer Elite RPTV.
 
Happy Hopping said:
I thought w/ burn in, plasma only last 2- 3 yr. before your eyes can tell there is a degrade of quality.
Click to expand...

Plasma actually has double the half life of a CRT set, meaning that it should run twice as long before you start to see any degradation.

As for burn in, the better sets are far less susceptive to the problem. I don’t suggest leaving a permanent logo or picture on the screen for hours or days at a time (or your windows desktop) but in most cases running the set in off channel mode and leaving the white raster up for a few hours will clean up the problem. Older sets were far more problematic with burn in then newer sets.
 
To me it seems a bit silly to worry about the life expectancy of a set when buying when the guns or phosphors are going to last at least 4 years anyway. Four years from now you will probably be able to buy a 61" 1080p set for $1000 bucks, and whatever you have now will be pretty outdated.
 
BillR said:
Please, oh dear God please tell me which TV’s you are referring to that have such ridiculous mark up?

I need to get me some of those for sure. The Pioneer Elite has a suggested retail that is indeed pretty high, but they go out the door at around 20 points margin if you’re lucky. When you stock several of those sets along side the Sony and Panasonic (all equally low selling margin) that’s not much return on your money.

Please, like many others do try to get your facts straight.
Click to expand...

Well before you start talking trash...maybe you should try a little harder! If you walk into a place willing to talk a bit and walk out you will do much better. 2.5 years ago I worked with a couple local stores for a 65" Sony (BB, CC, and Sears-who got the sale) ended up getting about $800 off a $3500 set, that took a week though. 3 months ago I was working on BB and CC for a 50" Samsung DLP (bedroom TV) which they were selling for $2499 after walking out Sat night and comming back to the same guy on Sunday night I had him down to about $2k almost bought! 2 weeks later I was really happy to see that Fry's while much further away had them down to $1899! Sucked for me htough because they sold their entire stock by noon and I couldnt get off of work until 4pm :( Ohh well you cant win 'em all!

so to Techx dont give up so easy and best of luck to you. The people on the floor dont always get commission, but the manager definitely have performance numbers to hit. I like to walk out feeling like I got a deal. Who knows, maybe they are laughing at me as I walk out because I went through a bunch of work and they still make a bit of money on me.

and for BillR bite your tongue, no need for a flame. I try to give as much constructive information as I see fit. I dont feel I need to write a paragraph for every statement that I make here especially on ones where your mileage will vary, but I'll do it this time for the benefit of all.
 
A number of people reported getting exceptional price cuts on the new Panny plasmas at Best Buy in the AVS forum. I was surprised because I thought they were already so low that they could not go lower. Subsequently Panasonic announced more slashes in the MSRP of their consumer plasmas. I have no reason to doubt that some have successfully got discounted deals at not only BB but Tweeter also.
 
Greenwit said:
LCDs suffer from screen door effects

I spent a year looking at rear projection TVs but finally rejected both LCDs and DLPs because there were too many compromises. Not to mention DLPs gave me headaches and the screen door effect was always present with LCDs. Plasmas are still the technology with the best picture quality. .
Click to expand...

What is Screen door effect on LCD?

I agree w/ you that plasma has the best pic. quality. But how long can it last? I don't want to spend a few thousand on a new screen every few years? The color fades away.

In fact, I was told that plasma is heading towards the end of the road and can be obsolete w/i the next few years due to color fading RAPIDLY.
 
BillR said:
Plasma actually has double the half life of a CRT set, meaning that it should run twice as long before you start to see any degradation.
.
Click to expand...

First of all, I was trying to describe two problems at the same problem, so my comments seems a bit confusing. I can live w/ burn in. I can put up with it. Although one of the dealer locally said if I pause and freeze the screen for only 30 min., the burn in are permanent and can't be undone.

I do freeze screen for a minute at the most, so no big deal.

But let's talk about half life. Say for someone who view the plasma 10 - 12 hr. on weekdays, and 8 hr. or so on weekends, how long does it take before that someone notice the color begins to fade?

Sony said it's only 2 yr. I went to Sony Store in Costa Mesa, CA. Their charges an arm & a leg for an extended warranty purchase plan. Thousands of dollars. The rep. is suggesting the color won't last after 2 to 3 years.

That's my primary concern, which is why I'm aiming towards LCD, but I don't know if 8 ms is fast enough.
 
Stoly said:
Plasma doesn't have (yet) high resolution displays (there is no native 1080i Plasma that I know of), HDTV lcds look amazing and many models have good contrast and black levels so I think its a better choice.
Click to expand...

Actually 720p is higher resolution than 1080i. At 1080i you have 540 lines of resolution per frame, at 720p you have, well, 720.

Then again, for the ultimate in resolution and quality at price is no option for a digital display, Sony Qualia is the way to go: http://store.yahoo.com/reliableav/soqu00670te.html
 
Happy Hopping said:
What is Screen door effect on LCD?

I agree w/ you that plasma has the best pic. quality. But how long can it last? I don't want to spend a few thousand on a new screen every few years? The color fades away.
Click to expand...

LOL. Where did you hear that!?! If anything, it's the LCD panels that are suspect....being subjected to a bright lamp. I've heard more discussion about the materials within LCD panels degrading than something similar with plasmas.

Screen door effect occurs in LCDs because 50% of the face of the screen is made up of filler to hide the electrical contacts to each pixel. So SDE refers to watching something as if you are watching through a screen door. I see this with any rear projection LCD. Some are bothered by it more than others.
 
Greenwit said:
LOL. Where did you hear that!?! If anything, it's the LCD panels that are suspect....being subjected to a bright lamp. I've heard more discussion about the materials within LCD panels degrading than something similar with plasmas.

Screen door effect occurs in LCDs because 50% of the face of the screen is made up of filler to hide the electrical contacts to each pixel. So SDE refers to watching something as if you are watching through a screen door. I see this with any rear projection LCD. Some are bothered by it more than others.
Click to expand...

With LCDs at 800x600 and lower, the screen door effect is clear to anyone, as resolution increases it is much less aparent. DLP projectors are less prone to the screen door effect even at low resolution, say for example an Infocus 4805 at 854x480.
 
Stoly said:
With LCDs at 800x600 and lower, the screen door effect is clear to anyone, as resolution increases it is much less aparent. DLP projectors are less prone to the screen door effect even at low resolution, say for example an Infocus 4805 at 854x480.
Click to expand...

I never notice SDE with DLPs. They use less fillers between pixels so it is much less apparent. Every LCD rear projection TV exhibits SDE that I have seen. This includes signals at 1080i, which is generally the best resolution you can currently display HD signals (though some prefer 720p). Like rainbows, some are very sensitive to SDE while others don't notice it much.
 
Greenwit said:
I never notice SDE with DLPs. They use less fillers between pixels so it is much less apparent. Every LCD rear projection TV exhibits SDE that I have seen. This includes signals at 1080i, which is generally the best resolution you can currently display HD signals (though some prefer 720p). Like rainbows, some are very sensitive to SDE while others don't notice it much.
Click to expand...
And 1080i is scaled to the set's native resolution, which for LCDs is typically 1280x720.

$1699 for Sony's 3LCD KDF-E42A10 42" RPTV has been the steal of the century for me.
 
I have a Toshiba Cinema series 65" HDTV. I am real happy with it but the up keep is more than a dlp. I just paid to have an ISF guy come by an calibrate it. It took him 4 hours. The picture is incredible though. Much much better than my friends Samsung DLP.
 
Morley said:
And 1080i is scaled to the set's native resolution, which for LCDs is typically 1280x720.
Click to expand...

Yes....and I don't think resolution has anything to do with SDE. You are still using the same pixels and filler between pixels. On the other hand, the better the signal (higher resolution), the easier it is to spot anomolies in the image (ie, SDE).
 
Greenwit said:
Yes....and I don't think resolution has anything to do with SDE. You are still using the same pixels and filler between pixels. On the other hand, the better the signal (higher resolution), the easier it is to spot anomolies in the image (ie, SDE).
Click to expand...
1080i is 1920x540 60 fields per second and it's not that much different than 1280x720 30 frames per second.

Besides, 1080i down-rez'd to 720p requires line doubling. Yuck.

I get SDE on my LCD, doesn't bother me, not as much as RBE on a DLP (seriously, drop the color wheel and give us a 3 chip, non-wobulating DLP solution, TI!), and I certainly didn't want to pay plasma prices or worry about burn in, or deal with a heavy CRT that will eventually suffer from convergence, geometry, and calibration problems...

That's why there's so many different solutions on the market...different strokes for different folks. I can certainly appreciate 480p native DVDs on my father's 480p/1080i Hitachi CRT RPTV, but it's not what I was looking for personally.
 
I've done research until the cows come home on this debate, and right now DLP has the upper hand. While true that they all have their strengths and weaknesses, DLP RPTVs seem to be the best all round choice. The latest generation models (HD4 chips) have:

1. ~2000:1 contrast (very good blacks)
2. No pixel issues or screen door effect
3. Has a replaceable light source and mirrors don't degrade/dim over time like plasma/lcd. Impossible to burn in, and no worries about life expectancy on major investment. This is a big one.
4. Beginning tech had much lower color segment/wheel speed than where it is now. Rainbows problems are rarer than they used to be.
5. HDTV is standard, even for low end (720p). No "EDTV" bullcrap or oddball 854X480 resolutions that most HTPCs cant do.
6. Colors are generally better than the LCD "over-saturated" look. More natural looking picture. Also, like plasma, no ghosting.

Of course, then you have to look at the discrepencies in brands/models after you decide what tech is best for you, and that's a whole 'nother decision. Personally, the new Samsung HLR series looks like the best right now for DLP. LCDs are getting better and cheaper every year. Supposed to be getting LEDs for backlighting soon, which give them much better color reproduction. Like anything, it'll be a while before we see that major change become affordable. SED isn't the all-killer it's hyped up to be. There's been discussion that it will have problems of it's own, and I am leery of anything based on CRT myself. I don't want flicker or that high pitched noise associated with CRT TVs. Who knows if SED will have it.

Wobbulation was a bad choice on TI's part, I think. We'll see how robust it is, but usually the more mechanical processes you add to something, the more likely it is to fail. The picture itself doesn't seem to suffer much at all (in fact, some people prefer the smoothness), but the jury is still out on wobbulation.
 
FitzRoy said:
I've done research until the cows come home on this debate, and right now DLP has the upper hand. While true that they all have their strengths and weaknesses, DLP RPTVs seem to be the best all round choice. The latest generation models (HD4 chips) have:

1. ~2000:1 contrast (very good blacks)
2. No pixel issues or screen door effect
3. Has a replaceable light source and mirrors don't degrade/dim over time like plasma/lcd. Impossible to burn in, and no worries about life expectancy on major investment. This is a big one.
4. Beginning tech had much lower color segment/wheel speed than where it is now. Rainbows problems are rarer than they used to be.
5. HDTV is standard, even for low end (720p). No "EDTV" bullcrap or oddball 854X480 resolutions that most HTPCs cant do.
6. Colors are generally better than the LCD "over-saturated" look. More natural looking picture. Also, like plasma, no ghosting.

Of course, then you have to look at the discrepencies in brands/models after you decide what tech is best for you, and that's a whole 'nother decision. Personally, the new Samsung HLR series looks like the best right now for DLP. LCDs are getting better and cheaper every year. Supposed to be getting LEDs for backlighting soon, which give them much better color reproduction. Like anything, it'll be a while before we see that major change become affordable. SED isn't the all-killer it's hyped up to be. There's been discussion that it will have problems of it's own, and I am leery of anything based on CRT myself. I don't want flicker or that high pitched noise associated with CRT TVs. Who knows if SED will have it.

Wobbulation was a bad choice on TI's part, I think. We'll see how robust it is, but usually the more mechanical processes you add to something, the more likely it is to fail. The picture itself doesn't seem to suffer much at all (in fact, some people prefer the smoothness), but the jury is still out on wobbulation.
Click to expand...

o Rainbows are a rather large problem...more than you think. About 50% see them:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=2555

o Longevity of DLPs have not been established to be longer than any technology, especially plasmas. Plasmas should last 60K hours before brightness is halved. DLP is a new technology that relies on a spinning color wheel. A mechanical device that could wear out over time or degrade. We do not know yet.

o DLPs often have complaints about handling motion...specifically, 'dithering.' A couple of many threads on the subject:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=509688&highlight=dithering
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=547843

o DLPs have a problem with the 'silk screen effect,' a persistent shimmering on the face of the screen.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=517246&page=1&pp=30&highlight=shimmering

o Samsungs that you mention have problems syncing sound with external audio:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=543331

o Picture quality is in the eye of the beholder. But, go to the high end stores and you'll be hard pressed to see a DLP in the primary/cushy chare/dimmable lights main demo room. It's always a plasma. :D
 
Lothar98 said:
Well before you start talking trash...maybe you should try a little harder! If you walk into a place willing to talk a bit and walk out you will do much better. 2.5 years ago I worked with a couple local stores for a 65" Sony (BB, CC, and Sears-who got the sale) ended up getting about $800 off a $3500 set, that took a week though. 3 months ago I was working on BB and CC for a 50" Samsung DLP (bedroom TV) which they were selling for $2499 after walking out Sat night and comming back to the same guy on Sunday night I had him down to about $2k almost bought! 2 weeks later I was really happy to see that Fry's while much further away had them down to $1899! Sucked for me htough because they sold their entire stock by noon and I couldnt get off of work until 4pm :( Ohh well you cant win 'em all!

so to Techx dont give up so easy and best of luck to you. The people on the floor dont always get commission, but the manager definitely have performance numbers to hit. I like to walk out feeling like I got a deal. Who knows, maybe they are laughing at me as I walk out because I went through a bunch of work and they still make a bit of money on me.

and for BillR bite your tongue, no need for a flame. I try to give as much constructive information as I see fit. I dont feel I need to write a paragraph for every statement that I make here especially on ones where your mileage will vary, but I'll do it this time for the benefit of all.
Click to expand...

No flame intended. A lot of what you see and will see is price drops from the manufacture. Dealers get “price protection” if they work it right.

For instance, if I already own 25 Sony sets and the price drops and I agree to buy 25 more I get paid back the price difference on what I already own. In that case you will indeed see price drops on the floor of the store you are shopping. I not only have to drop the price but I damn near have to give the set away because the last thing I want is 50 sets sitting in inventory especially when the same manufacture that just “protected me” just announce a replacement set at a much lower retail but kept the cost damn near the same.

The other scenario you have to watch is BB who was totally over stocked on many sets made a corp. decision to just plain blow out inventory and take the hit, again, on the right day you can hit a good deal. Same with Sears and a few others who like to (have to) run very high inventory turns.

The poor consumer is caught between what they see on the net VS what they see in a legit store and they don’t know which way to go. The sad part is it hasn’t leveled out yet, the worst part, it may never level out.
 
gplracer said:
I have a Toshiba Cinema series 65" HDTV. I am real happy with it but the up keep is more than a dlp. I just paid to have an ISF guy come by an calibrate it. It took him 4 hours. The picture is incredible though. Much much better than my friends Samsung DLP.
Click to expand...

I'm out of my element here, what's an ISF guy and why would calibration take that long?

While I'm at it, is there any draw back on viewing chnl. that does not have HDTV signal, viewing those satelite chnl. on a HD TV, in compares to say, viewing that same chnl.(no HDTV signal) on a same size display that does not support HD signal?
 
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