Power Supplies for Today's & Tomorrows Computers

jonnyGURU · Sep 11, 2005

It would've been nice to give it a different part number.

I love when companies do that.

Bit of a delay on the modular 550W Topower, BTW.

Fired it up on the tester and three seconds later it tripped and shut off. I tested it with a hand held tester and it stayed on. I then plugged it into the load tester with only a +5VSB load and it stayed on. Flipped on a load on the 12V and it shut down. *sigh* Email sent. Another weekend goes by w/o new content.

davidhammock200 · Sep 11, 2005

jonnyGURU said:
It would've been nice to give it a different part number. I love when companies do that.

Bit of a delay on the modular 550W Topower, BTW.

Fired it up on the tester and three seconds later it tripped and shut off. I tested it with a hand held tester and it stayed on. I then plugged it into the load tester with only a +5VSB load and it stayed on. Flipped on a load on the 12V and it shut down. *sigh* Email sent. Another weekend goes by w/o new content.

Thanks for the up-date,
Dave

davidhammock200 · Sep 20, 2005

I had a "cardiac issue" last Wednesday & I just got out of the hospitial.

I'm fine & feeling fine. I plan on being fully back on line by the end of tomorrow (Wednesday (9-20-05).

Dave

[Spectre] · Sep 20, 2005

davidhammock200 said:
I had a "cardiac issue" last Wednesday & I just got out of the hospitial.

A cardiac issue is when it happens to someone else. Cardiac OMFG is when it happens to you.

I'm fine & feeling fine. I plan on being fully back on line by the end of tomorrow (Wednesday (9-20-05).

Dave

Click to expand...

Be careful Dave! And glad you will be back.

davidhammock200 · Sep 22, 2005

Updated October 19, 2006

Oklahoma Wolf · Sep 22, 2005

davidhammock200 said:
Therefor I recommend single rail PSU's for P4 OC'ing.

I'll second that

I've been recommending this Zippy also, being closer to affordable than the 700w:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103708

jonnyGURU · Sep 22, 2005

Oklahoma Wolf said:
I'll second that

I've been recommending this Zippy also, being closer to affordable than the 700w:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817103708

I disagree.

Some Intel chipset based boards "load test" the 12V rail to make sure it does not exceed 20A to help ensure the possibility of overload. Many times when you hook a single 12V rail PSU with more than 20A on the 12V rail, the PSU just trips and you're left with a dead machine.

Of course, this "feature" varies from board to board.

Even now that we have dual 12V rail PSU's, the spec is still in the ATX12V docs that a 12V rail can not exceed 20A and PSU manufacturers put overload protection on their power supplies right, or just above, 20A. So even if you have a quad rail PSU with a rail capable of 20A and theoretically you should be able to load the PSU up to about 22A or 24A in a single, momentary shot. But the PSU won't let you. It'll trip at 20A if the motherboard doesn't.

EDIT: Change MOST to SOME since I don't know if the problem is > 50%, which would warrant the use of the word "SOME."

Oklahoma Wolf · Sep 22, 2005

jonnyGURU said:
Most Intel chipset based boards "load test" the 12V rail to make sure it does not exceed 20A to help ensure the possibility of overload. Many times when you hook a single 12V rail PSU with more than 20A on the 12V rail, the PSU just trips and you're left with a dead machine.

This is the first I'm hearing about it... over at OCF we've had a few people having trouble with dual 12 units and Pressies curing their issues with a big single 12. Which boards do this?

jonnyGURU · Sep 23, 2005

Intel boards, definitely. Newer ones will post, but usually won't shut down (they just reboot. That when Intel was counting on PSU manufacturers to put load limits on the PSU.)

Then most of what I've seen with Intel i845, i848 or 910 chipsets.

I'm not saying that all Intel based boards do it. You just have to be aware of the issue for when you start seeing the symptoms. Didn't want anyone to throw a blanket statement like "just get a PSU with a big 12V rail" out there without some caveat.

davidhammock200 · Sep 23, 2005

jonnyGURU said:
Intel boards, definitely. Newer ones will post, but usually won't shut down (they just reboot. That when Intel was counting on PSU manufacturers to put load limits on the PSU.)

Then most of what I've seen with Intel i845, i848 or 910 chipsets.

I'm not saying that all Intel based boards do it. You just have to be aware of the issue for when you start seeing the symptoms. Didn't want anyone to throw a blanket statement like "just get a PSU with a big 12V rail" out there without some caveat.

A very good point, proving once again the Intel is not the overclocker's friend.

Oklahoma Wolf · Sep 23, 2005

I'll have to keep this in mind.

Intel sure isn't making it hard for me to stick to AMD

Ozone77 · Sep 30, 2005

Ok, I started a thread about this but it is not getting too much attention and it will eventually get lost in the boards, so i'll ask here for future generations.

What kind of 1U PSU would you recomend for 'Modders' that want a small-ish computer but want to be able to play games at high resolutions?

davidhammock200 · Sep 30, 2005

Ozone77 said:
Ok, I started a thread about this but it is not getting too much attention and it will eventually get lost in the boards, so i'll ask here for future generations.

What kind of 1U PSU would you recomend for 'Modders' that want a small-ish computer but want to be able to play games at high resolutions?

Are we talking Shuttle here or maxed-out Zippy?

Ozone77 · Sep 30, 2005

Not shuttle, those PSU are smaller, if you have a Shuttle you need a Shuttle PSU.

I mean server-like 1U, I saw some zippy and the PCP&C 400 actually has 2 rails. Do you think we should look for 2 12V rails? is 350Watt enough?

Lets assume a Shuttle-like PC: one CPU, one graphics card, one DVD and one (or two) HD. Oh, and how about future-proof? lets add an optional AGEIA card (darn, can't remember where I saw the specs on that one). What would recomend?

davidhammock200 · Sep 30, 2005

Ozone77 said:
Not shuttle, those PSU are smaller, if you have a Shuttle you need a Shuttle PSU.

I mean server-like 1U, I saw some zippy and the PCP&C 400 actually has 2 rails. Do you think we should look for 2 12V rails? is 350Watt enough?

Lets assume a Shuttle-like PC: one CPU, one graphics card, one DVD and one (or two) HD. Oh, and how about future-proof? lets add an optional AGEIA card (darn, can't remember where I saw the specs on that one). What would recomend?

For servers get a ZIppy: http://www.zippy.com.tw/P_PRODUCT_LIST.asp?pcp_rfnbr=1&pcp_name=1U Single&lv_rfnbr=2

Ozone77 · Oct 16, 2005

OK, Zippy is good for servers, but OMG this thing is LOUD!!!!

How loud? I was expeting the PSU to take off and start hovering over my desk, which would have been a good thing since it was vibrating so hard (just sitting on my desk) it made even more noise. This thing is like having a hair-drirer to your ear. On top of that, you better use some rubber/silicone grommets and fasten it securely or you entire case will vibrate. Heck! if you have a small PC like mine, expet it to move around like an old washer or drier.

My veredict: Zippy PSUs are NOT meant for small/custom PCs, way too loud! (I am lookign to get some silenX fans and switch them out.)

davidhammock200 · Oct 16, 2005

Sell it & get a Seasonic S-12.

haojan · Oct 19, 2005

HighTest said:
Here's a fantastic PSU calculator that I think should be added to your listing. http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=80186.0

This allows you to select all the components you intend to purchase and determine based on the ratings of the PSU if it'll meet the requirements.

You can do both Single and Dual Rail checks with this tool. I found it to be invaluable.

Spectre said:
That one is actually better than the other claculator's people tend to link. After a quick once over my only gripe is with the "other" section being input in watts per rail as opposed to being a)included like processors adn graphics cards and b)being watts not amps for that section although it does spit out the amp's it makes you input in watts (that just seems counter productive). It would also be nice to see it hosted somewhere so it doesn't have to be downloaded.....but that is just nit picking there

Edit: Another gripe. Absolutely no built in Intel or AXP support or 5v regulated CPU support. So I will revise this to limited applicability

This calculator is great since I was looking for the amp draw for each rail, however pluggin in with my current spec shows a huge number, anyone else can verify and recommend what I should get for my current setup?

3.3V - 14A
5V - 29A
12V - 43A

A64 3200+ Venice @ 10x250, 1.55vCore, Stock Fan
2x 1GB Crucial Value
1x XFX 7800GTX 490/1300
1 DVD-ROM, 1 DVD+RW, 1 Raptor, 6 IDE HDD
4x 80mm Case Fans

jonnyGURU · Oct 19, 2005

LOL! 43A! That's crazy. More like 33A.

davidhammock200 · Oct 21, 2005

3.3V - 14A
5V - 29A
12V - 43A

A64 3200+ Venice @ 10x250, 1.55vCore, Stock Fan
2x 1GB Crucial Value
1x XFX 7800GTX 490/1300
1 DVD-ROM, 1 DVD+RW, 1 Raptor, 6 IDE HDD
4x 80mm Case Fans
__________________
DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-DR
A64 Venice 3200+ @ 253x10, 1.55v (bios), Stock Cooling, 51ºC Load
2x1GB Crucial Value .16T @ 212 (166 divider) 3-3-3-8 1T dual channel, 2.6v
XFX 7800GTX, 490/1300
72GB Raptor + 2x 120GB + 2x 200gb + 2x 250gb

Not a chance! Where do you think that +12V apmerage is going?

haojan · Oct 22, 2005

davidhammock200 said:
Not a chance! Where do you think that +12V apmerage is going?

Yeah I was wondering which city it was going to power. There are not many calculators out there that provide good information on individual rail requirements, being able to play around with settings for a gauge on future upgrades..

E4g1e · Oct 22, 2005

jonnyGURU said:
Some Intel chipset based boards "load test" the 12V rail to make sure it does not exceed 20A to help ensure the possibility of overload. Many times when you hook a single 12V rail PSU with more than 20A on the 12V rail, the PSU just trips and you're left with a dead machine.

Of course, this "feature" varies from board to board.

Even now that we have dual 12V rail PSU's, the spec is still in the ATX12V docs that a 12V rail can not exceed 20A and PSU manufacturers put overload protection on their power supplies right, or just above, 20A. So even if you have a quad rail PSU with a rail capable of 20A and theoretically you should be able to load the PSU up to about 22A or 24A in a single, momentary shot. But the PSU won't let you. It'll trip at 20A if the motherboard doesn't.

On the other hand, PSUs with much less than 20A capacity on the +12V rail will burn out even with a mid-level rig at stock speeds. And there is no warning at all whatsoever to prevent that. (Fortunately, such PSUs with extremely low +12V rail capacity are limited to low-wattage PSUs, which will also have an overly low capacity on the +3.3V and +5V rails, as well.)

And the above 20A recommended maximum on the +12V rail also applies to AMD systems, not just Intel systems. That "fully compliant" PSU will trip at 20A per +12V rail, regardless of whether you use AMD or Intel-based motherboards. (Which is why a multiple-rail PSU is strongly recommended for AMD systems, especially those using SLI or Crossfire.)

davidhammock200 · Oct 22, 2005

The specs are loose enough to allow the PSU maker to pretty much trip OverCurrent anywhere they want too.

The PS P&C 850SSI has 4X rails rated at +12V@17A each.

awdark · Nov 1, 2005

Im reading this and getting UBER paranoid now.
Current sparkle 350
[email protected]/22A, +5V@21/11.4A, +12V1@10A, +12V2@15A, [email protected], +5VSB@2A
If I go A64 with Nforce4 ultra mobo, it would push the psu to its limits wouldnt it?

(any idea of the resale value for a sparkle 350 atx 2.0 lol

)

davidhammock200 · Nov 1, 2005

awdark said:
Im reading this and getting UBER paranoid now.
Current sparkle 350
[email protected]/22A, +5V@21/11.4A, +12V1@10A, +12V2@15A, [email protected], +5VSB@2A
If I go A64 with Nforce4 ultra mobo, it would push the psu to its limits wouldnt it?

(any idea of the resale value for a sparkle 350 atx 2.0 lol )

I would go up to at least the Fortron or XCilo 450W (about $50).

The Enermax 535W SLI Certified for $80 would be a good investment, if SLI might be in your future.

awdark · Nov 1, 2005

I see. When I bought the PSU about a year ago I figured ATX 2.0 24pins! Room for upgrade.

-_- guess not. Um SLI is not in the future... just A64+6600gt or x800 or 6800 (dont need opinions on video card, just going to base it on price but its given to give a ballpark of power use planned)

davidhammock200 · Nov 1, 2005

awdark said:
I see. When I bought the PSU about a year ago I figured ATX 2.0 24pins! Room for upgrade.

-_- guess not. Um SLI is not in the future... just A64+6600gt or x800 or 6800 (dont need opinions on video card, just going to base it on price but its given to give a ballpark of power use planned)

With those video cards & without extreme OC'ing your 350W "may" be fine.

awdark · Nov 1, 2005

Cheapskate concept:
DUAL psus then? I have a small collection of PSUs... not the Antecs, Fortrons, but ones that I used for a while before going to my sparkle.
HDDs, Opticals, maybe even video card molex..
Or that might the dumbest idea you read in a while

*off to google*
So not totally stupid... but that can only save me 55watts at most for drives (assuming 15watt/hdd + 45 for opticals)
http://209.58.227.163/forums/printthread.php?t=41220&page=1&pp=25

^And a Deer power supply is like... fireworks.

davidhammock200 · Nov 1, 2005

Mobo & video must be on the same PSU.

Second PSU can be used for drives, fans & bling.

northrop · Nov 7, 2005

This will sound stupid, but does CrossFire require a specific PSU? Does it use the same PSU as SLI? Thanks.

davidhammock200 · Nov 7, 2005

northrop said:
This will sound stupid, but does CrossFire require a specific PSU? Does it use the same PSU as SLI? Thanks.

All nVidia SLI Certified PSU's & ultra high quality units like the OCZ PowerStreams will run them just fine.

davidhammock200 · Nov 8, 2005

I'll be away for most of the next 3 to 4 weeks, do to the necessity of international business travel.

How is the weather in Spain these days?

I'll miss you guys, have a great one!

Dave

Ozone77 · Nov 11, 2005

Well, it will be cold. It's winter!!

No, kinding aside, if you go to Madrid or Bilbao it will be very cold; Barcelona, Valencia or any city in Andalusia will have milder weather.

[Spectre] · Dec 11, 2005

dave: I am locking this thread as individual concerns are more easily addressed in individual threads. When you want to update change things let me know and I will reopen so you can.

davidhammock200 · Dec 28, 2005

Well, I'm now in Las Vegas, I won't be completely settled in until next month, but at least I'm here.

Dave

[Spectre] · Dec 28, 2005

davidhammock200 said:
Well, I'm now in Las Vegas, I won't be completely settled in until next month, but at least I'm here.

Dave

Hey dave get in touch with me by PM about the guide when you have some time.

DaCoOlNeSs · Jan 3, 2006

holy shit, cheers buddy. crazy guide. thanks!

Power Supplies for Today's & Tomorrows Computers

Technical Marketing Manager at Corsair Memory

2[H]4U

2[H]4U

[H] Admin

2[H]4U

PSU Warranty Voider

Technical Marketing Manager at Corsair Memory

PSU Warranty Voider

Technical Marketing Manager at Corsair Memory

2[H]4U

PSU Warranty Voider

Limp Gawd

2[H]4U

Limp Gawd

2[H]4U

Limp Gawd

2[H]4U

n00b

Technical Marketing Manager at Corsair Memory

2[H]4U

n00b

Supreme [H]ardness

2[H]4U

[H]ard|Gawd

2[H]4U

[H]ard|Gawd

2[H]4U

[H]ard|Gawd

2[H]4U

grumman

2[H]4U

2[H]4U

Limp Gawd

[H] Admin

2[H]4U

[H] Admin

[H]ard|Gawd