President Signs Order Outlining Emergency Internet Control

Ducman69 said:
Laugh all you want, but once you give the government a certain power, its almost impossible to remove it.

Even if you have no issues with Obama, and don't think he's personally abuse this, what about two presidents down the road?
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Yep. Good point. Of course he didn't address it since the only thing he is doing is trolling.
 
Just thinking. We did vote into office all of the legislators that helped to write, amend, and pass this law... :confused:
 
It's not my area of expertise so someone chime in:

What is a *realistic* outcome of the US firewalling US-based Internet nodes - Nothing in, nothing out of US borders? Not controlling the content, but just controlling the location of what comes and goes? Then what would happen to non-US Internet for others?
 
I realize that the reason we are a republic of laws is because the founders wanted to have a balance between the minority and majority in any legislation/decision in the future. I am glad that there are checks against the tyranny of the majority, because basically, "the mob" can make some truly stupendously stupid decisions.
 
Kibagami said:
GD f'in this. I have been saying this every time someone mentions the U.S govt system as a democracy. It irks me no end. Has there ever been a true democracy other than in old Athens, Greece?
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Athenian Democracy was never fully open.
 
Steve said:
Yup, they have moles here in our offices. That's how we know you don't live in the U.S. and the majority of your posts are spent mocking us. Nice. Hmmm, I wonder what other details our moles might dig up...
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The jig is up. I'm a French-national working the system to spread socialized medicine and government mandated baguette lines to America. Viva La Revolución!
 
climber07 said:
Just thinking. We did vote into office all of the legislators that helped to write, amend, and pass this law... :confused:
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Yes, but because we are a representative republic, our representatives can vote completely opposite to what the majority of their constituency wishes. There is no law, to my knowledge, that states that representatives *must* vote as their constituents vote/wish them to. The only recourse is to vote them out of office, which until recently happened far to seldom.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Athenian Democracy was never fully open.
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Right, it was mainly an "elite democracy". I wasn't saying it was a "perfect" democracy by any stretch, just that as far as government systems so far , it was close to the definition of such.
 
Kibagami said:
Right, it was mainly an "elite democracy". I wasn't saying it was a "perfect" democracy by any stretch, just that as far as government systems so far , it was close to the definition of such.
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*correcting my last post

Right, it was mainly an "elite democracy". I wasn't saying it was a "perfect" democracy by any stretch, just that as far as government systems so far *are concerned* , it was close to the definition of such.
 
Nate7311 said:
As an american, I feel the whole point is that the current US pretends to be a democracy. When the President can make sweeping proclimations like this involving utter control of an item or service, especially one the entire world is dependent upon, without consulting congress it's a problem. For the naysayers, look back through history at the sheer # of "Executive Orders" issued and what they were over the last 10 Presidents. Hopefully it opens your eyes.
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When the President can pick and choose arbitrarily to enforce or not enforce the law, when he can declare laws "Unconstitutional" without taking them to the Supreme Court, or give no defense on laws that are being argued there based on his whim.... yeah, I have a problem, too. The President is the person who is supposed to enforce the laws enacted by Congress, not be an Emperor.

There's a bad storm coming in the US in the next twenty-thirty years... right now is starting to feel surprisingly like it's 1850, all over again.
 
Isn't the US, sort of a democracy? Not an out right democracy, that much is clear. In a republic you have officials who does your thinkng for you, and you don't vote for them (or so I believe). But the US is a democratic republic, where you vote your officials.

That said, doesn't seem to help, in any case, people are voting people in just to vote, to feel important, without much or any knowledge on the candidate. And candidates can be bribed legally, which makes matters worst. So many fall, or start off corrupt, it's ridiculous.
 
Here's the executive order in detail:

http://wh.gov/OBV6

Waiting for Change.org or some major petition site to pick this up so I can sign against it.
 
TheCommander said:
Yep. Good point. Of course he didn't address it since the only thing he is doing is trolling.
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I didn't address his point because it's a non-issue. From the text of the executive order there's nothing for the president to abuse. The actual text of the order is very bland and appears fairly harmless. It's an action plan for emergency preparedness that defines roles and responsibilities, not much more.

The whole "emergency internet control" paranoia vibe in the c|net article is a blatant attempt to mislead about the order and apparently attack the president. The author even refers to the president as simply "Obama" in her title. It's pretty obvious from that she has an axe to grind. The word "Internet" doesn't even appear anywhere in the executive order at all, nor does anything remotely related to grabbing control of tcp/ip networks in an emergency.

The c|net article sites another website as having problems with section 5.2 of the order specifically. They say "it could mean" the executive branch can take control of all communications. Well by that standard it "could mean" anything you want it to mean.

Here's the text they have such a problem with:
Sec. 5.2. The Secretary of Homeland Security shall: (a) oversee the development, testing, implementation, and sustainment of NS/EP communications, including: communications that support Continuity of Government; Federal, State, local, territorial, and tribal emergency preparedness and response communications; non-military executive branch communications systems; critical infrastructure protection networks; and non-military communications networks, particularly with respect to prioritization and restoration;

(b) incorporate, integrate, and ensure interoperability and the necessary combination of hardness, redundancy, mobility, connectivity, interoperability, restorability, and security to obtain, to the maximum extent practicable, the survivability of NS/EP communications defined in section 5.2(a) of this order under all circumstances, including conditions of crisis or emergency;

(c) provide to the Executive Committee the technical support necessary to develop and maintain plans adequate to provide for the security and protection of NS/EP communications;

(d) receive, integrate, and disseminate NS/EP communications information to the Federal Government and State, local, territorial, and tribal governments, as appropriate, to establish situational awareness, priority setting recommendations, and a common operating picture for NS/EP communications information;

(e) satisfy priority communications requirements through the use of commercial, Government, and privately owned communications resources, when appropriate;

(f) maintain a joint industry-Government center that is capable of assisting in the initiation, coordination, restoration, and reconstitution of NS/EP communications services or facilities under all conditions of emerging threats, crisis, or emergency;

(g) serve as the Federal lead for the prioritized restoration of communications infrastructure and coordinate the prioritization and restoration of communications, including resolution of any conflicts in or among priorities, in coordination with the Secretary of Defense when activities referenced in section 5.1(a) of this order are impacted, consistent with the National Response Framework. If conflicts in or among priorities cannot be resolved between the Departments of Defense and Homeland Security, they shall be referred for resolution in accordance with section 2.1 of this order; and

(h) within 60 days of the date of this order, in consultation with the Executive Committee where appropriate, develop and submit to the President, through the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, a detailed plan that describes the Department of Homeland

Security's organization and management structure for its NS/EP communications functions, including the Government Emergency Telecommunications Service, Wireless Priority Service, Telecommunications Service Priority program, Next Generation Network Priority program, the Executive Committee JPO, and relevant supporting entities.
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Looks pretty innocuous to me. But I guess we should all strap on our tin-foil hats just in case anyway right? After all the big bad government boogeyman is right the corner about to snatch our guns and silence us all at any moment. :rolleyes:
 
Hamish Campbell said:
Looks pretty innocuous to me. But I guess we should all strap on our tin-foil hats just in case anyway right? After all the big bad government boogeyman is right the corner about to snatch our guns and silence us all at any moment. :rolleyes:
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Tin foil is good for wrapping the baguettes and for protecting the brains of the paranoid who get on the "hate/fear the governement" bandwagon.
 
Hamish Campbell said:
No it really is. When the first reply to the thread was a conspiracy theory about UN mandated gun control it was all downhill from there.
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Today's so called conspiracy theories are tomorrow's realities. Do you not look ahead in the slightest???? Learn to think.
 
GoldenTiger said:
Today's so called conspiracy theories are tomorrow's realities. Do you not look ahead in the slightest???? Learn to think.
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Alright dude, if one day the UN wrestles domestic law making authority away from the constitution of the the largest, most powerful sovereign democracy on earth then you can come back here to this thread and say "I told you so".
 
Hamish Campbell said:
I didn't address his point because it's a non-issue. From the text of the executive order there's nothing for the president to abuse. The actual text of the order is very bland and appears fairly harmless. It's an action plan for emergency preparedness that defines roles and responsibilities, not much more.

The whole "emergency internet control" paranoia vibe in the c|net article is a blatant attempt to mislead about the order and apparently attack the president. The author even refers to the president as simply "Obama" in her title. It's pretty obvious from that she has an axe to grind. The word "Internet" doesn't even appear anywhere in the executive order at all, nor does anything remotely related to grabbing control of tcp/ip networks in an emergency.

The c|net article sites another website as having problems with section 5.2 of the order specifically. They say "it could mean" the executive branch can take control of all communications. Well by that standard it "could mean" anything you want it to mean.

Here's the text they have such a problem with:


Looks pretty innocuous to me. But I guess we should all strap on our tin-foil hats just in case anyway right? After all the big bad government boogeyman is right the corner about to snatch our guns and silence us all at any moment. :rolleyes:
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It does look innocuous. I've read the bill from the White House web site. I'm just concerned about other administrations abusing the vague definitions in section 5.2(f).

(f) maintain a joint industry-Government center that is capable of assisting in the initiation, coordination, restoration, and reconstitution of NS/EP communications services or facilities under all conditions of emerging threats, crisis, or emergency
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The Federal Government has been doing this for sometime. With Bush we got the Patriot Act and we went to war without declaring war, but at least congress approved the action. With Obama they're not taking control of the internet and don't forget the huge data center their building in Utah which we hace a copy of every internet communication you make. Obama went even further and didn't ask Congresses permission with Libya, he just did his own thing. Seems like they dont' give a fuck about the constitution and it doesn't matter if you're a Rebpubic or a Demoncrat.

I also find it interesting that the US is experiencing record numbers of people giving up their citizenship, many wealthy individuals. So not only our jobs going oversees, but so is a lot of wealthy people. That's what happens when the Federal Government gets too big. If you're a liberal, you're getting what you asked for.
 
Hamish Campbell said:
Alright dude, if one day the UN wrestles domestic law making authority away from the constitution of the the largest, most powerful sovereign democracy on earth then you can come back here to this thread and say "I told you so".
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That's not what I was saying buddy.
 
pgwalsh said:
The Federal Government has been doing this for sometime. With Bush we got the Patriot Act and we went to war without declaring war, but at least congress approved the action. With Obama they're not taking control of the internet and don't forget the huge data center their building in Utah which we hace a copy of every internet communication you make. Obama went even further and didn't ask Congresses permission with Libya, he just did his own thing. Seems like they dont' give a fuck about the constitution and it doesn't matter if you're a Rebpubic or a Demoncrat.

I also find it interesting that the US is experiencing record numbers of people giving up their citizenship, many wealthy individuals. So not only our jobs going oversees, but so is a lot of wealthy people. That's what happens when the Federal Government gets too big. If you're a liberal, you're getting what you asked for.
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But i wanted gay marriage, pot, and birth control.
 
Ocean said:
But i wanted gay marriage, pot, and birth control.
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I don't mind those things, but I'm a libertarian and therefore I'm hated by both the right and the left. I guess libertarian's are too socially tolerant and physically conservative. :p :D
 
pgwalsh said:
I don't mind those things, but I'm a libertarian and therefore I'm hated by both the right and the left. I guess libertarian's are too socially tolerant and physically conservative. :p :D
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Shit! I need an edit button... doh. fiscally
 
When Skynet activates using the Internet pipes then you'll all stop complaining!
 
Hamish Campbell said:
This must be in preparation of a joint Chinese-Kenyan invasion force floating just over the horizon in the Atlantic...

To your Rascal Scooters brave patriots! They may take our lives, but they'll never take our FREEDOM.
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I knew I didn't like you for some reason. Now I know why. You fail to realize how vital personal liberty and privacy are. Being up in arms about power-grabs and invasions of privacy is just a huge joke to you.
 
OldPueblo said:
When Skynet activates using the Internet pipes then you'll all stop complaining!
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I'm not worried. Skynet is stupid. It'll launch nukes (which it can't do from the Internet) and then blow up or EMP all the computers and routers on the planet that make it intelligent as well as mess up the power grid it needs to run them. :p
 
Oh, I forgot that all NS/EP communications are handled with smoke signals, Morse Code and the telegraph, not TCP/IP netoworks. :rolleyes:
 
wabbitseason said:
I knew I didn't like you for some reason. Now I know why. You fail to realize how vital personal liberty and privacy are. Being up in arms about power-grabs and invasions of privacy is just a huge joke to you.
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Sooo...joking instead of being irate about governmental policies while posting in a computer hardware forum is a reason to dislike someone you've never met and don't know personally. Personally, I can't think of a reason to not joke about it, here at least. There are other more suitable venues to pursue a serious discussion with people in a better position to propose changes that'll be ignored by elected officials.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Sooo...joking instead of being irate about governmental policies while posting in a computer hardware forum is a reason to dislike someone you've never met and don't know personally. Personally, I can't think of a reason to not joke about it, here at least. There are other more suitable venues to pursue a serious discussion with people in a better position to propose changes that'll be ignored by elected officials.
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The internet is srs bsns dude. You can't play like that!!
 
Hamish Campbell said:
This must be in preparation of a joint Chinese-Kenyan invasion force floating just over the horizon in the Atlantic....
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So you missed the news about the second time, in as many weeks, Russian bombers were intercepted off the west coast during the July 4th weekend? (Google it, tons of reputable news sources, non-R and non-D) Maybe a situation like that, if not intercepted, would be classified as worthy to enact the control. Once Obama, yes, not title on purpose therefore I must have an ax to grind, puts this into law, there is no telling what kind of emergency is required to grab control.
 
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