professional video game players

I think people are underestimating the amount of hand coordination and dexterity needed to play at the highest levels of online FPS'. However, arguing over whether to call them an athlete or not is pretty meaningless, seriously.

They are however professional gamers. Personally, I play online poker for a living (well paying my way through college), and I guess I would consider myself a professional poker player. Same would be true of gamers.
 
Exactly, their physical appearance doesn't really have anything to do with it, it's whether or not they can school people in the games they play. I mean, myself, I'm 5'11", 162lbs. I'm not a huge guy, I think I have 11% body fat. I don't play pro anymore, but it's not like I was fat then, I was just good at what I played. Now work, and other things have kind of gotten me away from the gaming mainstream.
 
Attean said:
I said nothing about it being physical. I said it was an intellectual sport.
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Playing video games is about as intellectually challenging as taking a shit. See the bad man, push a button.....oh my thats really hurting my brain..... even an old monkey can do that..... yes I play video games. I enjoy them. But not as an intellectual exercise....oh brother.... :rolleyes: calculus.....thats intellectually challenging.
 
magoo said:
Playing video games is about as intellectually challenging as taking a shit. See the bad man, push a button.....oh my thats really hurting my brain..... even an old monkey can do that..... yes I play video games. I enjoy them. But not as an intellectual exercise....oh brother.... :rolleyes: calculus.....thats intellectually challenging.
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Actually monkeys, or certain monkeys rather, would pwn people in games. Experiments were down, regarding reading brainwaves, in which chimps where hooked up to very simple video games, and there brains where hardwired to a controller. At first the chimps where given a finger controller to allow them to control what was onscreen. Being chimps, those silly guys :D, they did not realize the finger controller did nothing, and as a result the finger controller was taken away, and they were able to control what was on screen with there thoughts alone.

In summary Chimp > Fatality

:D
 
magoo said:
Playing video games is about as intellectually challenging as taking a shit. See the bad man, push a button.....oh my thats really hurting my brain..... even an old monkey can do that..... yes I play video games. I enjoy them. But not as an intellectual exercise....oh brother.... :rolleyes: calculus.....thats intellectually challenging.
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Well I wouldn't say an "intellectual" challange like say calculus, but I would compare it to Chess. At least with CS anyways, it's not just about see bad guy, shoot. Theres a lot of strategy, you have to anticipate the opponets movements, where they're going to go, where they're going to plant etc.... You have also be able to recognize ambushes, and so forth. Deathmatch is all about instinct, knowing the weapons, maps, and what other players tend to do, and you develope an ability to "know" certain things with it after a while. There is definately a challange to it, but it would be foolish to compare it to calculus or philosophy. It's just a different range.
 
HurtMeP1nty007 said:
"He who practices the most, is usually the best"
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No matter how much any of us train, I doubt a single one of us could break any world records for any athletic feat. Just as with athletics, there are some people with a natural talent for gaming. Certain areas of the brain are stimulated more than others in gaming; people whose brains are more developed in those areas will always have an advantage.

The difference, in my experience, between a good player and a great player is in problem solving. Anyone can practice all day and what they learn is how to react to specific situations. They memorize everything to the point that it becomes reflex. The first analogy that comes to mind is a martial art: with enough practice, anyone can learn what move to make when and be an effective fighter. But when you do something they've never seen before, they'll hesitate, misstep, and lose the fight in both cases. A great player--the kind who goes pro--not only learns the steps and develops the reflexes, but understands the theory and systems that form the art. When you do something new, they counter intuitively because they understand why they do the things they do, rather than simply knowing to do them. They take practice and knowledge and apply it to a new problem.

Problem-solving isn't something that can be learned. It can be developed, exercised, enhanced with teaching, but ultimately it relies heavily on biology. Brain structure is influenced by so many things over so many years we are just scratching the surface of the mechanisms behind it. There are some people who are naturally faster than others, both physically and mentally. There's no way to overcome this difference, though a slow person who works out every day can easily outrun a naturally fast person who doesn't.
 
magoo said:
Playing video games is about as intellectually challenging as taking a shit. See the bad man, push a button.....oh my thats really hurting my brain..... even an old monkey can do that..... yes I play video games. I enjoy them. But not as an intellectual exercise....oh brother.... :rolleyes: calculus.....thats intellectually challenging.
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Either you don't play the games I do, or you don't put as much effort into them as some people do. The thing about calculus or any other solely intellectual exercise is that there's nothing preventing you from taking as much time as you need. An online FPS, for example, requires instant decision-making to avoid losing. Granted, most of any game is routine tedium...but, then, so is math. You do a lot of little things you've done a thousand times to set yourself up for one challenge.

Not that the two can be compared at all. Higher mathematics and gaming have nothing in common except that the areas of the brain they stimulate overlap pretty heavily (iirc).

Of course, it could be you're just being an argumentative smartass :p
 
magoo said:
Playing video games is about as intellectually challenging as taking a shit. See the bad man, push a button.....oh my thats really hurting my brain..... even an old monkey can do that..... yes I play video games. I enjoy them. But not as an intellectual exercise....oh brother.... :rolleyes: calculus.....thats intellectually challenging.
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Wow, one of the more ignorant posts I've seen in a while. Do you really think it is that easy? That these "professional gamers" just run around the map hoping to find their opponent? In 1v1 games it is quite an intellectual fight. You need to predict what your opponent is going to do and where he is going. Then you think of a way you can counter that. Then, go one level higher and start to think of what your opponent thinks you are thinking you will do and what he will do to counter that. Then you counter that. Ideally you want to get all of the powerup and not let your opponent get any. I don't care how good your aim is, you will still lose to someone with subpar aim and superior map control skills.

For multiplayer games there needs to be more coordinating and timing between teammates. Yes, each player needs to be extremely skillful in their own right but being able to come up with a good strategy and plan of attack is just as important and pulling off a clutch AWP kill.
 
Let's keep it civil please.

This thread has been going well, no need to ruin it now, right?
 
PopeKevinI said:
No matter how much any of us train, I doubt a single one of us could break any world records for any athletic feat. Just as with athletics, there are some people with a natural talent for gaming. Certain areas of the brain are stimulated more than others in gaming; people whose brains are more developed in those areas will always have an advantage.

The difference, in my experience, between a good player and a great player is in problem solving. Anyone can practice all day and what they learn is how to react to specific situations. They memorize everything to the point that it becomes reflex. The first analogy that comes to mind is a martial art: with enough practice, anyone can learn what move to make when and be an effective fighter. But when you do something they've never seen before, they'll hesitate, misstep, and lose the fight in both cases. A great player--the kind who goes pro--not only learns the steps and develops the reflexes, but understands the theory and systems that form the art. When you do something new, they counter intuitively because they understand why they do the things they do, rather than simply knowing to do them. They take practice and knowledge and apply it to a new problem.

Problem-solving isn't something that can be learned. It can be developed, exercised, enhanced with teaching, but ultimately it relies heavily on biology. Brain structure is influenced by so many things over so many years we are just scratching the surface of the mechanisms behind it. There are some people who are naturally faster than others, both physically and mentally. There's no way to overcome this difference, though a slow person who works out every day can easily outrun a naturally fast person who doesn't.
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And finally, there is someone who understands. Thank you. You're my hero. Have some cake. And all that jazz.
 
Bwhahah
Pro video game players - athletes?
No way. They are gamers and not athletes. Video gaming isn't a sport either. Now I'm a gamer and thats what I love to do but that'd be an insult to actual athletes if I called myself one for playing a video game.

Pro video game players sounds fine though. They are the best at what they do.
 
magoo said:
Playing video games is about as intellectually challenging as taking a shit. See the bad man, push a button.....oh my thats really hurting my brain..... even an old monkey can do that..... yes I play video games. I enjoy them. But not as an intellectual exercise....oh brother.... :rolleyes: calculus.....thats intellectually challenging.
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You're a huge retard. Its obvious you've never played a "pro" player or anyone remotely good. If you play games for fun like a good amount of people do, you end up wanting to get better and there's only so much your simple concept of gaming would get you. Competitive gaming is packed full of strategies.


WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL ARGUING OVER WHETHER GAMERS ARE ATHLETES. THEY'RE NOT AND NO ONE SAYS THEY ARE SO STOP ARGUING.

professional gamer != athletic professional
 
Pipo said:
Competitive gaming is packed full of strategies.
l
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ell not really

control the powerup and more than likely you will win. Aim... as long as you can outlive the other player... you win and that what power ups do.

For instance timing the armor or armor shards and health.. not that difficult as they are set to a system that is always the same (btw it is 30 seconds from pick up in Quake III and UTXXX) That system does not change. Doom 3 I have never looked into power up regen but more than likely they are set to a set system also. So strategy... horde the power up and outlive the other player (notice i didn't say kill) to win ;)
 
Pipo said:
You're a huge retard. Its obvious you've never played a "pro" player or anyone remotely good. If you play games for fun like a good amount of people do, you end up wanting to get better and there's only so much your simple concept of gaming would get you. Competitive gaming is packed full of strategies.


WHY ARE PEOPLE STILL ARGUING OVER WHETHER GAMERS ARE ATHLETES. THEY'RE NOT AND NO ONE SAYS THEY ARE SO STOP ARGUING.

professional gamer != athletic professional
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Didn't anyone ever tell you it's not nice to call people names? It is also against the forum rules which you agreed to when you signed up.

Second warning. If we can't have a civil, on topic discussion, I will lock this thread.
 
Now that i think about it compared to football or any other sport, it's the exact same thing. Everyone can play football but you're professional if you are so good that someone is willing to pay you to do it.

That would be my personal defenition of Professional: you are a professional at something you get paid to do and you know how to do it very well. Like, a pc repair guy is a professional pc repair guy, an NFL player is a professional athlete, Gamers winning 10k at a tournament are professional gamers. In time it will be just as much of a thing as any other sport, i don't know that it could ever get to be the spectator sport that say the NFL is, but i know that they televise top level starcraft matches in korea.
 
JonnyK said:
Now that i think about it compared to football or any other sport, it's the exact same thing. Everyone can play football but you're professional if you are so good that someone is willing to pay you to do it.

That would be my personal defenition of Professional: you are a professional at something you get paid to do and you know how to do it very well. Like, a pc repair guy is a professional pc repair guy, an NFL player is a professional athlete, Gamers winning 10k at a tournament are professional gamers. In time it will be just as much of a thing as any other sport, i don't know that it could ever get to be the spectator sport that say the NFL is, but i know that they televise top level starcraft matches in korea.
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Hey, they televise Golf and Bowling, I'm sure I would rather watch some people who were good at CS or Q3 battle it out, over why some dude chose a 9 iron in a snad trap (sorry I don't play golf).
 
If you consider spawn camping and weapon camping skillful then I guess Fatality is a professional at it. :D

In sports, there are two teams, or two opponents, who are evenly matched in terms of equipment, environment, etc. The thing the separates the great athletes from the rest is the ability to use there skill to overcome the opposition on an equal playing field.

When you do not start on an equal playing field, ie one guy has an uber weapon, and the other guy is running away trying to find something better then a pea shooter to equip himself with, you infact take skill out of the equation. The playing field is no longer equal, and the guy with the bigger weapon, does not need to use skill anymore then Donovan Bailey needs to use his born skills to beat a runner at the special Olympics.

So you can call the first kill skillful, or lucky, but after that its just following the pattern of weapon and player spawns.
 
Draax said:
If you consider spawn camping and weapon camping skillful then I guess Fatality is a professional at it. :D

In sports, there are two teams, or two opponents, who are evenly matched in terms of equipment, environment, etc. The thing the separates the great athletes from the rest is the ability to use there skill to overcome the opposition on an equal playing field.

When you do not start on an equal playing field, ie one guy has an uber weapon, and the other guy is running away trying to find something better then a pea shooter to equip himself with, you infact take skill out of the equation. The playing field is no longer equal, and the guy with the bigger weapon, does not need to use skill anymore then Donovan Bailey needs to use his born skills to beat a runner at the special Olympics.

So you can call the first kill skillful, or lucky, but after that its just following the pattern of weapon and player spawns.
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Yes, but if that person running away has the skill to dodge say rockets, or rail slugs, and effectively kills the other person, that would be use of skill.
 
FlatLine84 said:
Hey, they televise Golf and Bowling, I'm sure I would rather watch some people who were good at CS or Q3 battle it out, over why some dude chose a 9 iron in a snad trap (sorry I don't play golf).
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Watching professional paintball is way better than gaming (which is still better than golf, bowling, or poker)
 
Draax said:
If you consider spawn camping and weapon camping skillful then I guess Fatality is a professional at it. :D

In sports, there are two teams, or two opponents, who are evenly matched in terms of equipment, environment, etc. The thing the separates the great athletes from the rest is the ability to use there skill to overcome the opposition on an equal playing field.

When you do not start on an equal playing field, ie one guy has an uber weapon, and the other guy is running away trying to find something better then a pea shooter to equip himself with, you infact take skill out of the equation. The playing field is no longer equal, and the guy with the bigger weapon, does not need to use skill anymore then Donovan Bailey needs to use his born skills to beat a runner at the special Olympics.

So you can call the first kill skillful, or lucky, but after that its just following the pattern of weapon and player spawns.
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Then why isn't it that the person who gets the first kill always wins? Sorry, but you are very, very wrong. Part of the skill is being able to turn the tide of the fight.
 
doesn't matter if people think it's a sport or not, ESPN shows scrabble matches and calls it a sport. In fact, gaming as a sport is growing at a pace to overtake most major sports. Just go follow the CPL, 2006 is going to be a big year for them to include espn coverage, more network coverage, and a huge WT purse.

Gaming is going to be at the Olympics in Bejing as a trail sport. So if you want to bitch all day about how it isn't a sport, you are in a minority.
 
obs said:
Then why isn't it that the person who gets the first kill always wins? Sorry, but you are very, very wrong. Part of the skill is being able to turn the tide of the fight.
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In your opinion I am wrong, in my opinion you put way to much emphasis on the skill required to play video games.

Hell why don't we turn Photoshop into a sport, and have people compete professionally in it. There is much more skill required to use Photoshop, then there is, and every will be, in any video games.
 
facerip said:
doesn't matter if people think it's a sport or not, ESPN shows scrabble matches and calls it a sport. In fact, gaming as a sport is growing at a pace to overtake most major sports. Just go follow the CPL, 2006 is going to be a big year for them to include espn coverage, more network coverage, and a huge WT purse.

.
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Gaming to overtake most major sports? It never will. Firstly it has to become more popular than golf, soccer, hockey as well as all the other smaller sports in the US. I don't think it will come even close to surpassing smaller sports. Next, it will never become more popular than football, basketball, baseball, etc.. Those are billion dollar businesses and have fans from every age category that will watch and support those sports. Now who exactly would spectate gaming? The only people I can think of would be teens to young adults - I'd say up to about 21 or so with a few exceptions here and there.
 
Draax said:
In your opinion I am wrong, in my opinion you put way to much emphasis on the skill required to play video games.

Hell why don't we turn Photoshop into a sport, and have people compete professionally in it. There is much more skill required to use Photoshop, then there is, and every will be, in any video games.
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That poster is right, he's not putting too much emphasis on skill, that's how most matches go, it's almost always never one dude who manages to have all the power ups and big guns. If that were true people wouldn't own in CS:S with the TMP or glock. Or in Q3, owning with the gaunlet or shotgun. I don't know how much experience you have with FPS MP, but you need to find a much more broad group of people to play with, cause either you're way too good for them, or you get stomped.
 
Draax said:
There is much more skill required to use Photoshop, then there is, and every will be, in any video games.
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I think some people are confusing skill and talent. Not sure whether you're one of them.

Skill is learned. In Photoshop, it's knowing all the functions and filters and keystrokes that make the software do what you want it to do. In games, it's knowing maps, weapons, units, strategies, et cetera.

Talent is latent, though it can certainly be improved upon. Artistic talent can't be taught; some people can draw well with little or no schooling, others (like me) couldn't do it well to save their lives, even with years of instruction and practice. And it's artistic talent that makes a person "good" at using Photoshop. In games, the talent is a mix of hand-eye coordination, quick decision making, and good strategic thinking.

Note: I'm not just talking about FPS, though they dominate the professional circuit in the US and Europe. We need more RTS tournaments :D
 
Sorry to bring this up, but I found an article, perhaps it be interesting:

http://gotfrag.com/portal/story/30106/?spage=1

Quoted from GotFrag.com - First page

Introduction
Electronic Sports is the name given to professional gaming. The debate has broken out on forums in response to articles, and even in the homes of many for the short time the classification has existed. So can it be called a sport? Well, not so fast... It is with this piece I hope to open a few eyes on the situation, and come to an ultimate conclusion. Now, I fully realize my position at an eSports News site pretty much solidifies my intentions for many. But in the most unbiased, logical and reasonable way possible I hope to reach an irrefutable solution. I may even be able to refute the biggest argument against eSports - the definition of sport itself. So stick with me, and I promise I'll turn so many heads Linda Blair would vomit in jealousy, should she be reading.

Common Arguments Against

Gaming is a hobby!
This argument can be very true, but at the same time very wrong. For some, football and baseball are mere hobbies, and gaming is merely a hobby as well. But for those that play competitively on a professional basis, it is their career. So, just because something doubles as a hobby, it does not necessarily mean that it is not a sport, as any sport can double as a hobby. It's the level of dedication and commitment that dictates a hobby.

Games are Entertainment!
Let us get one thing straight, every sport is entertainment. Why else would we have stadiums reminescent of the arenas of old, showcasing gladiator-esque battles? Why else would many sports be shown on television during primetime? Because it is all entertainment. Now, granted the players are playing for the money and competition, not necessarily to entertain. But that is the entertaining aspect of it all; the raw, real and unforseen outcome of every game. So, pointing out that games are entertainment does nothing but give eSports one more quality of a sport.

In games, you are pretending. Sports are real. If games are sports, then acting is a sport.
Now, here is an argument that sounds very correct, and it has a good point. However, it is a bit misguided. It is when this statement is presented that I really can't help but laugh until I'm questioned about my behavior. First of all, acting has no wide-spread competitive aspect to it. It is purely for entertainment. While I mentioned earlier that entertainment is a quality within sports, at the same time that quality is negated if the outcome is pre-determined, or the purpose is not the same within the sports world. There is a difference between a show and a sport, a show being pre-written and a sporting event being unfortold.

What about pretending? Here's the part that makes me laugh. When a player is playing Counter-Strike on a professional level, I seriously doubt they truly believe that they are holding an AK-47 in hand and tactfully planting or defusing a bomb. Sure, some people in this world may think that, and to be honest that's their own business. To draw a parallel with sports, I don't think Michael Vick ever hurdles into the air thinking he's a falcon, only to fall flat on his face. Players in football don helmets with images resembling war paint on the sides. Jaguars, Falcons, Eagles, Giants - the list goes on. If players truly believed they were such things, then the Oakland Raiders would all be in jail by now. Ok, bad example. But surely you can see my point. Just because Jacksonville's football team is called the Jaguars, it doesn't mean they pretend to be such. In the same light, just because 4K.Grubby plays under the Orc name in Warcraft III, it does not mean he thinks he is one. True, when asked while playing the game who he is, he may identify himself as an Orc, but that's the same thing as asking Daunte Culpepper what position he plays - Quarterback.
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facerip said:
Gaming is going to be at the Olympics in Bejing as a trail sport. So if you want to bitch all day about how it isn't a sport, you are in a minority.
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orly.jpg
 
Do we really need to turn this into the WOW boards ? I mean that image is old enough as it is, so is the joke.
 
facerip said:
Gaming is going to be at the Olympics in Bejing as a trail sport. So if you want to bitch all day about how it isn't a sport, you are in a minority.
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looking at the Olympics commitee site.

There is no such trial for olympics on gaming for the next 8 years. Thereby making you a damn liar. so link up or don't bother replying as i will consider everything from you completly speculative and as such worthless.
 
Does anyone really call themselves a cyber athlete?

I thought that was just, you know.. marketing bullshit.

Cyberathlete Professional League

Has that kind of oooo ring to it no?



I call myself a gamer.

Not a cyberathlete

Just a Gamer!
 
The only time Ive heard anyone call themselves a cyber athlete (professional gamers included) was in complete mockery of what we in the industry refer to as "e-thugs".
 
SwanBeeCh said:
The only time Ive heard anyone call themselves a cyber athlete (professional gamers included) was in complete mockery of what we in the industry refer to as "e-thugs".
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So I think we can all agree that "cyberathlete" is nothing more than a fluff title that actual gamers don't give a rats ass about.. but love bashing on it :)
 
figgie said:
looking at the Olympics commitee site.

There is no such trial for olympics on gaming for the next 8 years. Thereby making you a damn liar. so link up or don't bother replying as i will consider everything from you completly speculative and as such worthless.
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But I wouldn't be surprised if a secondary competition featuring video games would take place the same time as the Olympics in 2008 in Beijing. Perhaps WEG or WCG.

In China, video games and competitions are bigger than actual sports themselves.
 
fromage said:
But I wouldn't be surprised if a secondary competition featuring video games would take place the same time as the Olympics in 2008 in Beijing. Perhaps WEG or WCG.

In China, video games and competitions are bigger than actual sports themselves.
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apparently you haven't heard about table tennis or badmignton which they pull kids from school to learn the aforementioned games when they are 4-6 years old. These two ARE the biggest thing in China.

I know with 100% certainty that you are mistaken on that one ;)
 
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