Protect Video Cards or Hard Drives?

T

TheSpook

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 12, 2004
Messages
379
I currently own these PSUs:
550W Antec TrueControl
400W PSU that came with my Antec case


Two weeks from now, I will have these parts in two computers:
Computer One
5x200 Seagate HDDs
2x160 WD SATA HDDs
2x160 WD HDDs
with a Radeon 7200AIW and an older processor (either a P4 or an AXP)

Computer Two
3 HDDs (2x40, 1x74g Raptor)
3 video cards (1x9800Pro, 2x9250 [PCI])
Athlon64 3200+ S754


My question is this: I trust the TrueControl more than the generic PSU. Should I put the more solid power supply in the box with more video cards, or the box with more hard drives? I've had two video cards (8500 and 9800Pro) affected by bad voltage rails, and ~six hard drives die (I assume because of bad voltage rails) in the past - which piece of hardware is more affected by faulty power?

Many thanks.
 
I will give anyone free ASCII hearts if a response is given. I'm just not looking forward to dying video cards or dying hard drives :( .
 
Buy a new PSU to replace the generic if you are concerend about it failing.


As for which is most sensitive 6 one way half a dozen the other....although i have never reserected a hard drive killed by a PSU.....have recued one videocard.....but if there is a next time I am not going to bother.
 
If the 400w PSU that came with the Antec case is Antec-branded (Chances are it's an Antec SmartPower 400w or similar), Then I wouldn't worry too much cause it's also excellent quality (not as good as the TrueControl 550w, but much better than generic PSUs).

I agree Spectre, I don't really think it'd make a difference of which PSU should go in which PC..
 
Jawadali said:
If the 400w PSU that came with the Antec case is Antec-branded (Chances are it's an Antec SmartPower 400w or similar), Then I wouldn't worry too much cause it's also excellent quality (not as good as the TrueControl 550w, but much better than generic PSUs).

I agree Spectre, I don't really think it'd make a difference of which PSU should go in which PC..
Click to expand...

Haha....I missed that it was an Antec case. Yeah if that was Antec PSU/case bundle you are correct it should be a SmartPower.
 
As promised, one <3 for Spectre, and one <3 for Jawadali.

All semi-homosexuality aside, thanks for the comments - think I'll throw the 400W in with the hard drives, and the 550W in with the video cards.
 
NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!

Seriously, there is absolutely no way I would trust hard drives, especially that many of them, to anything less than a TruePower or a PSU in a similar league from another maker. On your video card, they can simply draw more current through their power regulation circuitry to compensate for a drop in voltage. Hard drives have very precise voltage and current requirements, and fluctuation of more than 5% can kill them outright or damage them.
 
--Doug
That is what I fear . . . hard drives seem like a finicky species. I'd imagine you know a fair bit about them, though :).
However, the draw of a 3200+ (~75W), 9800Pro, and two 9250s along with 3 hard drives / 2 optical drives sounds like it might stretch my 400W just a bit.

--Jawadali
Thanks for the link, but that calculator's a bit limited in what it can do (i.e. it only recognizes one video card, up to four hard drives (pisha!)).

--Spectre
Sweet Gods, this is a hardcore wattage calculator.
 
TheSpook said:
--Spectre
Sweet Gods, this is a hardcore wattage calculator.
Click to expand...

Tis the preferred one around these parts as we get an amp draw per rail not just a total wattage which is far more useful than total wattage.
 
TheSpook said:
--Doug
That is what I fear . . . hard drives seem like a finicky species. I'd imagine you know a fair bit about them, though :).
However, the draw of a 3200+ (~75W), 9800Pro, and two 9250s along with 3 hard drives / 2 optical drives sounds like it might stretch my 400W just a bit.

--Jawadali
Thanks for the link, but that calculator's a bit limited in what it can do (i.e. it only recognizes one video card, up to four hard drives (pisha!)).

--Spectre
Sweet Gods, this is a hardcore wattage calculator.
Click to expand...
Very true & there is nothing wrong with Antec Smart Power PSU's. They offer a lot of quality for the money.
 
I have a number (and that number is four) of 80mm case fans, but I'm not sure about the RPMs. Safe to assume that they're 2600rpm? 4500rpm sounds pretty heavy duty, and I don't think these are.

From what I've come up with (using the "Sweet Gods!" calculator), the non hard drive system would draw very close to, if not more than, 400W.

However, the hard drive system would draw a bit more (maybe +50W, if I don't put any optical drives in). I had no idea HDDs could take upwards of 35W . . .

I'm guessing that the wattages used in this calculator are the maximum possible required by the item. I doubt I'd be running two optical drives and nine hard drives at full load at the same time, but . . . looks like the two best options would be:

1) Buy a second TrueControl ( :( for wallet, :) for my love of Antec)
2) Put the TrueControl in the HDD system, and the 400W in my other system.


Thanks again for help, and <3s for all . . . as promised.
 
Recent FDB motor (Do your WD-JB drives have black tops, or the older silver tops?) HDDs pull about .6-.75A on +12 each. Startup requirements are in the 1.2-1.5A neighborhood. At startup, those 9 HDDs will suck around 12-15A on +12, presuming they all spin up at the same time. However, your CPU current draw during POST will be fairly low, so most of the +12 current will be available for spinup work. During normal operation, you should only need about 8A. Your processor will probably draw 5-7A under load on +12. If the box is folding (which it should ;) or doing some other heavy CPU work, I'm kind of fearful. That 400W Antec is rated for what, about 18-20A on +12? That's probably at 25C, which means that figure is rather unrealistic. I think those drives coupled with a CPU running at full tilt, may come close to maxing out the 400W unit. Even then, I have even bigger concerns about the quality of the current than I do amount of current. There are all sorts of bad things a PSU can do to hard drives. Make sure you get a quality UPS/line conditioner for the system as well, so that dirty power from the wall won't be a problem.
 
In regards to the UPS -- would it be alright to run both boxes off the same UPS? I don't care about having 10 minutes of uptime during a power outage, just some protection from the rough supply of power that'll be coming through my dorm circuits.

Looks like I'll be buying another heavy duty PSU - are there any cheaper ones out there? I got my TrueControl550 for $65, which was a steal, but it retails for around $100 . . . less monye would be much nicer.


Edit: And fear not - this box is being put together to serve files on a private DC++ hub, so it'll be folding 24/7, along with 12/3.5 on my other rig (I game and 3d render sometimes).
 
TheSpook said:
2) Put the TrueControl in the HDD system, and the 400W in my other system.
Click to expand...

Personally, this is what I would do. The 400w antec should be enough to handle the Triple video card PC (People talk of running A64 +6800GT ona 350w PSU, so you should be fine). Some people even run 6800GTs in hihg-end shuttles, and they only have a 250w PSU.
 
Just got home -- the "shady" PSU is a 420W Turbolink Switching Power Supply - guess I'd remembered the wattage incorrectly.

+20W = good
"Turbolink Switching Power Supply" = 'eh, not so good.

If I don't shell out for another trusted PSU, it'll be TrueControl with the HDDs and überTurboLink in the gaming rig. As for the UPSs, well, my brother works at Best Buy so hopefully I'll get a discount on those, if not . . . to the internet!

Thanks all :) .


Edit: I see Anand used the Turbolink 420W in a couple of articles, as well as Maximum PC ( :rolleyes: ) and a few other sites. Looks like it's an older (2-3 years) PSU, but I suppose it'll work. The "Turbo" in "Turbolink" just took me back to the days of American Gladiators, and as much as it'd be nice to have my Radeon 9800Pro-NITRO and my 74GB LAAAZER Raptor powered by T-t-t-turbolink, I still fear for their safety.

Edit 2: Looking back at past [H] threads, looks like Turbolink is not very well liked. Guess it's time to buy another PSU.
 
TheSpook said:
From what I've come up with (using the "Sweet Gods!" calculator), the non hard drive system would draw very close to, if not more than, 400W.
Click to expand...

to workup a real world draw what you do is employ 100% of the amp values for the drives and fans and say 50% > 25% for the CPU\GPU
thats your startup draw
optical is optional sometimes it will startup with the HDDs most times not
also at startup the PSU is cold and has more capacity then when it heats up (see below)
so a single optical is kind of a wash for startup

then employ 25% of the amps for all the spinning stuff as a static draw and use 100% for the CPU & GPU as a worse case runtime draw
its unlikely you spinup an optical at the same time youd be pegging both the CPU & GPU
so again drop it

a balls to the walls worse case senerio is a very rare event
a typical draw is generally a fraction of that

(see thats the other reason we like that calculator, since you can add in values to it)

then
with those figures you go shopping for supplies
if they seriously exceed the amps per rail required your good
if they are close you need to derate the supplies for the operating temperature they where rated at (if known) or make a wild guess based on reputation

so a junk supply gets derated a full third or more
an Antec say 25% > 10%
an FSP > 15% > 0%

Seasonic and OCZ \ Topower rate at 40C
PCP&C Turbo Cools rate at 50C (and you actually raise the amps to compare to other supplies :p )

if you have a controlled environment and say a ducting solution that doesnt exhaust the mobo compartment\CPU through the PSU thats an obvious plus

also
till very recently even a NAS or SAN stuffed full of SCSI drives didnt require a massive PSU, 300W, 350W, 400W where common, for starters the CPU(s) where powered off the +5V back then but more importantly in SCSI you can stagger the spinup draw of the drives since the runtime draw is generally one quarter the spinup (and generally these where 24\7 boxes and rarely had to reboot) that worked really well.

some IDE\SATA controllers\RAID cards allow staggered spinup ;)
and unlike say Videocards the power consumption of HDDs us typically well documented somewhere, with draws for spinup, seeks (heavy access) and typical access (basically spinning) in case you really want to get a lean solution

but a nice safety margin is something I firmly beleive in
 
TheSpook said:
Just got home -- the "shady" PSU is a 420W Turbolink
Click to expand...


phffft...spit

@#@#!$%$%#@@ Deer

avoid at all costs
Deer rebranded as
Allied, Codegen, L&C, Logic, Foxconn, Mustang, Powerstar,
Eagle, Foxlink, Mercury, Duro, Austin, Turbolink, Real Power.
http://www.deer-group.com/index2.htm

actual fire damage potential, have killed more mobos than any other PSU make in history



So what normally happens when a PSU catches fire?
gee said:
It depends on what part of the power supply fails.

When the line section of the power supply has a failure - eg, input rectifier, PFC, main switching transistors, primary side drive, etc... usually the supply fails with a spectacular BANG but doesn't take any computer components with it.

If the output section of your power supply fails (secondary side rectifiers, magamp, output capacitors, control circuitry, etc)... normally you end up with a quiet but stinky failure, and dead computer hardware.

The Powmax supplies i've encountered invariably blow their primary side... the undersized transformer saturates, main transistor current goes too high, main transistors blow, and the supply drops dead without harming anything. This is the only good thing I can say about that company. :D

Deer supplies, with secondary side rectifiers stupidly-fucking-formed by soldering axial diodes to a metal heatsink... those almost always kill computers. I've seen holes blown in motherboard chipsets due to deer supplies...
Click to expand...

PS gee is an actual Electrical Engineer that designs switch mode power supplies ;)
consider yourself lucky you have the opportunity to replace it before a catastrophic loss
had it been loaded anywhere near its rated load, or had to deal with say a serious brownout that likely wouldnt be the case

Oh and congratulations

TheSpook said:
not very well liked.
Click to expand...

you are this weeks offical "Master of the Understatement" :p
 
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