PS2/console gaming on a NEC 2490?

[DarkScythe]

Hello,

I've been waiting for a while in hopes of getting a nice display soon, but it seems the trend is toward the wide-gamut monstrosity.
When I first saw the HP 2475 I thought it was going to be great - 24", affordable IPS and tons of input options. However, when it was released, we found out it was wide-gamut.

I don't want to deal with the wide gamut headache, as I do mostly web work, so sRGB makes my life less complicated. It seems my only options is a NEC 2490, and has been for a while. When I heard the NEC2490v2 was announced, I hoped they would update the inputs too, but unfortunately it retains the same meager set of inputs.

Since then of course, many places have started listing the 2490 as discontinued, and as it has the A-TW, I might have to jump on it soon before they disappear altogether. Granted, I'm still using my Samsung 172x 17" TN which doesn't have an A-TW polarizer, so I'm not sure how bad I'd feel about not having one if I were to go with the 2490v2 instead.

In any case, this is going to be my all-around general-purpose monitor for everything I throw at it/my pc. This includes FPS/RPG/RTS gaming, web work, movie/anime watching, photo work, video work, and general office work. Along the lines of gaming, I also want to plug in my PS2 (or eventually any other console) using component to play without hogging up the TV, but the NEC does not have component.

Is console gaming on the NECs even possible? If so, how do I go about it? I do want good image quality, considering the price of the monitor, but I'm not going to go nuts and spend $500 on gear to hook up my PS2 either. I'm not sure what I need though. Is a simple component > RGB adapter enough, or is there some converter box that's required? If so, which ones are good?

Also, I recall something about games displaying different modes (progressive and interlaced) but I'm not sure how this will impact the gear that I need. I heard some boxes do not do very well with one or the other. I'm not sure what modes my games have, but I have a bunch of North American PS2 games, as well as a bunch of Japanese imports that I play semi-often.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[nomu]

The 2490 (v1 at least) does not support interlaced modes. Apparently it does support sync-on-green, if that is true a component to VGA cable should work with playstation consoles (set to RGB), as long as they output progressive scan. However it is reported that the 2490 also tears badly on 480p, so a PS2 is an iffy proposition overall.

I use a 360 and a PS3, and I haven't noticed any issues with PS2 games, but that's with upscaling and both consoles are now hooked up through a receiver over HDMI. PS3s also can't play PS2 imports. You could try a VGA box for your PS2 (I used the XCM box for my GC/Wii) but you'll probably run into the tearing issue.\

A receiver would probably work (if it upscales over HDMI) but that would be spending $500 on gear to hook up your PS2.

 

[King of Heroes]

I was in your situation not too long ago, about wanting to use my PS2 with my monitor. I wound up finding a great external solution with this:

http://www.comprousa.com/en/product/v300/v300-1.html -- (scroll down for Key Features)
http://www.comprousa.com/en/product/v300/v300-3.html -- Specifications

Its specifically advertised for people looking to attach their gaming consoles to their monitor. Features component input (along with composite and S-Video) that accepts a 480i signal (along with 480p) and outputs via VGA. It also comes with an VGA input so you don't lose that port. It worked beautifully with my monitor and my PS2. It's not expensive either, I had to email Comrpo's sales department to set up the buy though. They sold it to me for $74.99 ($59.99 + $15 shipping from China).

I don't use it anymore because I eventually got an HDTV with component inputs, so I had no more use for it. It was still quite useful though.

 

[DarkScythe]

Yikes, this sounds a bit more complicated than I thought.

nomu, I'm not sure what you mean by setting the console to RGB.
Is there a way for me to figure out whether my games run progressive or interlaced? It's a bit confusing considering I have games from both NA dn Japan, and I'm not sure if there are any differences with it.

Also, I suppose I'll try to find a youtube video or something, but is the 'tearing' that noticeable? I assume the effect is similar to playing games with vsync off? (I'm thinking TF2 here, since that's what I currently play on my pc.) If so, I'm not sure I'm all that bothered by it, considering I've dealt with it for the past 5-6 years.

I do recall seeing a lot of people talking about those VGA/converter boxes to hook up their consoles, but I'm not sure of any good ones.

King of Heroes, those specs are a bit confusing, isn't 1080i = 1920x1080 resolution? Yet that is beyond its maximum supported resolution.. What's going on there?

Anyway, I suppose if a straight cable adapter will not work, what are some good, recommended converter boxes that can handle both progressive and interlaced games? It doesn't need to pass any audio, as I'm going to be hooking the audio directly to my speakers via the RCA from the ps2 cable.

 

[King of Heroes]

King of Heroes, those specs are a bit confusing, isn't 1080i = 1920x1080 resolution? Yet that is beyond its maximum supported resolution.. What's going on there?

Anyway, I suppose if a straight cable adapter will not work, what are some good, recommended converter boxes that can handle both progressive and interlaced games? It doesn't need to pass any audio, as I'm going to be hooking the audio directly to my speakers via the RCA from the ps2 cable.

1080i is an interlaced 1920x1080 signal. Because it is interlaced (meaning is signal is split in half, basically), it has the bandwidth to accept a 1080i input. It cannot accept a 1080p (progressive) signal due to bandwidth limitations over component, however. The V300 is probably the best converter box I've found that handles BOTH interlaced and progressive. Believe me, I've looked.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1336742&highlight=PS2

 

[nomu]

Yikes, this sounds a bit more complicated than I thought.

nomu, I'm not sure what you mean by setting the console to RGB.
Is there a way for me to figure out whether my games run progressive or interlaced? It's a bit confusing considering I have games from both NA dn Japan, and I'm not sure if there are any differences with it.

You should be able to select whether to output RGB or YPbPr over component. I don't own a PS2 so I'm not sure what menu you'd find that setting in.

You might try wikipedia to find out what scanning mode each game supports. Failing that just google it, you're sure to find the info somewhere.

Also, I suppose I'll try to find a youtube video or something, but is the 'tearing' that noticeable? I assume the effect is similar to playing games with vsync off? (I'm thinking TF2 here, since that's what I currently play on my pc.) If so, I'm not sure I'm all that bothered by it, considering I've dealt with it for the past 5-6 years.

No idea..I've never used 480p on this monitor. There are some users on this forum that have.

 

[DarkScythe]

I'm actually getting a bit confused with all these resolutions now.

All of these boxes seem to have a bunch of "supported" resolutions, but then the game has its own resolution. What's going on here? Does it take the 480i/p resolution of the game and output that, or does it upsample it into a higher resolution? If it upsamples, then couldn't they all just "upsample" the 480i into a 480p or higher resolution to get around the 480i limitation? (Forgive me if this is all incorrect, I have trouble understanding all these different resolutions and their relation to each other.)
I just see some boxes that are able to "output" 1920x1080 resolution from a supposed 480i/p source.

That V300 aside, it seems they have a newer (?) W800F (http://www.comprousa.com/en/product/w800f/w800f.html) that does support the 1920x1080/1200 resolution, but then it seems like the "component" cable is simple a component > S-video adapter.
I had considered the X2VGA2, but its 480i mode is supposedly only half the screen, so that didn't work.

Looking around, there seem to be a few others that might fit the bill, but there are hardly any good reviews (video or otherwise) that are done with a ps2 and/or any games.
One appears to be the "High Box" which some say is a ripoff of some "HD Box Pro."
Then there's the XCM "Mega Cool" box which I actually saw a video of someone hooking up a PS2 to it, but he didn't load any games; just the menu. That and everything I find when I look up information is what appears to be the same guy registering at like 600 forums to post the same advertisement about it; quite annoying.

Still, having actually seen a video of it in action, I'm leaning towards it, but I'm not sure if any of them would work if a game is only set to output 480i.

With the ease of hooking everything else up to a PC, this is surprisingly difficult.. Maybe we've gotten spoiled or something. :/

 

[King of Heroes]

That V300 aside, it seems they have a newer (?) W800F (http://www.comprousa.com/en/product/w800f/w800f.html) that does support the 1920x1080/1200 resolution, but then it seems like the "component" cable is simple a component > S-video adapter.

It isn't. Its a component + S-Video input cable. Which it says right under Package Contents:

# MINI-DIN to S-video/component video cable

 

[DarkScythe]

Oh, my mistake.

The connector looked awfully like an S-video connector from the picture.
I'm not entirely sure what a mini-din is though. Is there any quality loss going from component to mini-din?

I'm not sure where to buy these either.. I found the XCM box available from someone off Amazon, but I can't find anything for the W800F.

Does anyone have any other suggestions, or is this pretty much all there is?

I wasn't aware it was this difficult to hook up a PS2.. How do thsee boxes display 480i? They're incredibly vague on it. I don't know if they upconvert, or if they do some trickery to get the LCD to display 480i.

 

[vjcsmoke]

You could get a Samsung 240HD for your tv/console use.
And then get another monitor for your professional/photowork use.
Then go with a dual 24" monitor display.
Another alternative is to get the Dell 2408WFP and just live with the slight input lag issue. It has a ton of connections and excellent rated image quality.

 

[King of Heroes]

Oh, my mistake.

The connector looked awfully like an S-video connector from the picture.
I'm not entirely sure what a mini-din is though. Is there any quality loss going from component to mini-din?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DIN

No, there is no quality loss. All it does is pass through the analog signal to the box. The fact that its just a cable kind of implies that.

I'm not sure where to buy these either.. I found the XCM box available from someone off Amazon, but I can't find anything for the W800F.

You'd need to email Compro's sales department, as I mentioned in a previous post, in order to get pricing and potentially a buy.

I wasn't aware it was this difficult to hook up a PS2.. How do thsee boxes display 480i? They're incredibly vague on it. I don't know if they upconvert, or if they do some trickery to get the LCD to display 480i.

It takes the interlaced 480 signal, deinterlaces it, then outputs it as a progressive signal at the same resolution. The box is CAPABLE of upscaling to practically any resolution you choose, as outlined on the specifications page:

http://www.comprousa.com/en/product/w800f/spec.html

However, if your monitor lacks 1:1 pixel mapping or doesn't have the appropriate aspect mode, then the monitor will upscale it to whatever it works with. That has nothing to do with the box though.

 

[nomu]

Oh, my mistake.

The connector looked awfully like an S-video connector from the picture.
I'm not entirely sure what a mini-din is though. Is there any quality loss going from component to mini-din?

I'm not sure where to buy these either.. I found the XCM box available from someone off Amazon, but I can't find anything for the W800F.

Does anyone have any other suggestions, or is this pretty much all there is?

I wasn't aware it was this difficult to hook up a PS2.. How do thsee boxes display 480i? They're incredibly vague on it. I don't know if they upconvert, or if they do some trickery to get the LCD to display 480i.

I wouldn't recommend the XCM box for a PS2 specifically, it's only intended for current-gen consoles (plus the PSP).

Most VGA boxes just output 640x480, which is bad with a 2490. Some will upscale to a PC resolution like 1024x768 or 800x600.

It takes the interlaced 480 signal, deinterlaces it, then outputs it as a progressive signal at the same resolution. The box is CAPABLE of upscaling to practically any resolution you choose, as outlined on the specifications page:

http://www.comprousa.com/en/product/w800f/spec.html

However, if your monitor lacks 1:1 pixel mapping or doesn't have the appropriate aspect mode, then the monitor will upscale it to whatever it works with. That has nothing to do with the box though.

That sounds like it would be perfect for a 2490, which offers fully customizable scaling settings.

 

[DarkScythe]

Sorry for the late response, been swamped with work.

You could get a Samsung 240HD for your tv/console use.
And then get another monitor for your professional/photowork use.
Then go with a dual 24" monitor display.
Another alternative is to get the Dell 2408WFP and just live with the slight input lag issue. It has a ton of connections and excellent rated image quality.

That indeed is an alternative, but it's one I can't afford to pursue. Getting another LCD, for one thing, would be pretty expensive (I didn't want to spend several hundred dollars to get this going.) Not only that, I don't have the room for a second LCD. The 2490 would be the biggest I can accommodate in my room.

You'd need to email Compro's sales department, as I mentioned in a previous post, in order to get pricing and potentially a buy.
It takes the interlaced 480 signal, deinterlaces it, then outputs it as a progressive signal at the same resolution. The box is CAPABLE of upscaling to practically any resolution you choose, as outlined on the specifications page:

Thanks for the clarification.
I'll see about that then, but the issue I have with emailing them to arrange a buy is that it's probably without a return policy. Part of the reason I leaned toward the XCM box is because I can get it off Amazon, and I believe their return policy is quite good.
If nothing else though, at least it's comforting to know the box will deinterlace and turn it into a progressive signal. Anyone have any idea if the XCM box does the same?

I wouldn't recommend the XCM box for a PS2 specifically, it's only intended for current-gen consoles (plus the PSP).
Most VGA boxes just output 640x480, which is bad with a 2490. Some will upscale to a PC resolution like 1024x768 or 800x600.

Right, the XCM is probably overkill for the PS2 specifically, but I do plan a bit ahead, and would like to re-use whatever box I get for if/when I get another console, like a PS3 or Wii or xbox360.. or even the next-gen consoles assuming they still use component.
Anyway, is it specifically the 640x480 resolution that's "bad" with the 2490? If I set the box to output at 1920x1200 (and I assume it will do upconversion here) then it will be fine?

Thanks again guys, I appreciate the help.

Edit:
Also, quick question regarding the cables to use with these things.
I'll probably pick up a monster ps2/3 component cable off ebay for around 15 bucks to hopefully increase the quality a bit. The next connection is from the VGA out to LCD. Is there any difference using a VGA>VGA cable or a VGA>DVI-I cable? I see the 2490 has DVI-I slots, so I could technically use those for this purpose, I think.

 

[nomu]

Thanks for the clarification.
I'll see about that then, but the issue I have with emailing them to arrange a buy is that it's probably without a return policy. Part of the reason I leaned toward the XCM box is because I can get it off Amazon, and I believe their return policy is quite good.
If nothing else though, at least it's comforting to know the box will deinterlace and turn it into a progressive signal. Anyone have any idea if the XCM box does the same?

The XCM will deinterlace at all resolutions.

Right, the XCM is probably overkill for the PS2 specifically, but I do plan a bit ahead, and would like to re-use whatever box I get for if/when I get another console, like a PS3 or Wii or xbox360.. or even the next-gen consoles assuming they still use component.
Anyway, is it specifically the 640x480 resolution that's "bad" with the 2490? If I set the box to output at 1920x1200 (and I assume it will do upconversion here) then it will be fine?

I haven't noticed any issues with any resolutions on my 2490, and I haven't heard anyone report any except for 640x480. Embarrassingly, I'm not actually sure if the one sold on amazon upconverts 480p to 1080p, even though I owned it. I know the new version does.

Edit:
Also, quick question regarding the cables to use with these things.
I'll probably pick up a monster ps2/3 component cable off ebay for around 15 bucks to hopefully increase the quality a bit. The next connection is from the VGA out to LCD. Is there any difference using a VGA>VGA cable or a VGA>DVI-I cable? I see the 2490 has DVI-I slots, so I could technically use those for this purpose, I think.

Yes, that's how I had it set up on my DS-263n. I put my N64 on VGA and my Wii on DVI-I.

 

[DarkScythe]

Thanks for the information, nomu.

It seems Amazon ran out of the box though, so I'm not sure. That ExtremeMods site doesn't have any return policy either.

What did you use your box with? If you didn't experience any problems with any resolution outside of 640x480, I guess I can set it to the highest setting (1600x1200 I guess for 4:3 content) and let the 2490 handle the rest of the scaling/centering. It should theoretically work.

Anyone know of any reputable place with a decent return policy to buy any of these boxes? (XCM or compro or whatever else.)

 

[nomu]

Thanks for the information, nomu.

It seems Amazon ran out of the box though, so I'm not sure. That ExtremeMods site doesn't have any return policy either.

What did you use your box with? If you didn't experience any problems with any resolution outside of 640x480, I guess I can set it to the highest setting (1600x1200 I guess for 4:3 content) and let the 2490 handle the rest of the scaling/centering. It should theoretically work.

Anyone know of any reputable place with a decent return policy to buy any of these boxes? (XCM or compro or whatever else.)

I used the (non-Mega Cool) XCM box with my Doublesight DS-263n. I just let the monitor scale the output. It wouldn't do widescreen correctly at 480p, but the 2490 would have.

The 2490 can scale however you want it with the custom scaling setting in the advanced menu, so the output doesn't matter as long as it's not 480p. (Worth noting: I just tried to set my PS3 to 480p but it outputs 720x480 no matter what aspect ratio you set it to. At that resolution I didn't see any tearing. This may have something to do with my receiver though, or possibly the HDMI connection)

XCM lists their resellers here. GP2X and console-tuning have the best return policy, but there are few ratings for the first and none for the second that I can find. The recent reports I found for GP2X weren't bad though.

 

[DarkScythe]

Thanks for the info, nomu.
I suppose if the earlier generation worked fine, this new one should theoretically work fine too. I have a feeling its image quality might be a bit better than the other two options, so I'll try to go for them, as they at least have a couple US dealers. I'll take a look at GP2X, although their 20% restocking fee isn't all that great.

If nothing else, I'll take a look at the Compro one again, or the HD Box.

I hope it all works though...