PS3: what about playing standard (NON blue ray) DVD`s?

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Ignacio49

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This is in addition to my other post concerning differences between 80 and 40 Gb models (which I do not see posted, BTW)

I most probably will use the PS3 mainly to play standard definition (non blue ray) DVD's. Will these SD DVD`s benefit from upscaling - can you really see the difference, the better picture?

For the above mentioned use, would there be any difference in performance between the 80 and 40 Gb versions?

Thanks.
 
the 80 n 40 gig are both great at playing standard dvd. pretty much like a highend dvd player.
 
Upscaling makes sd dvds look virtually as good as br content, at least I don't see a difference. The ps3's fans will run ocassionally, as the hardware upscales, whereas it's basically silent during br playback...but the fans are low db to begin with.
 
On standard def dvd's my PS3 does just as good or better than an Oppo 970HD upconverting player I used to have. Just keep in mind that "upscaling" just means that it scales the picture to an HD resolution....but that doesn't mean it magically makes it HD. If teh dvd looked like crap before...it will still look like crap but just at the proper resolution for your tv.;)
 
Upscaling makes sd dvds look virtually as good as br content, at least I don't see a difference.
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Who comes up with this stuff? Upscaled SD DVDs look like ass compared to real HD content. And this is on a 32 inch Aquos, I suspect things would look even more like ass on a larger HD set.

I will say however that the PS3 seems to be a very good SD DVD player for overall responsiveness. Probably 50% of the time my PS3 is turned on, its playing a normal DVD movie.
 
The PS3 is in my personal experience one of the best upconverting players a person could own. If you look on the AVSforum's they absolutely love the thing as an upconverter, and have since it came out. It's definitely a strong point of the unit.

Standard DVD playback on it looks better than my high end 480p changer I used to have, and my HD-A1 HD DVD player, which I bought primarily to use as an upconverting DVD player since the majority of my collection is, of course, still regular old DVD's.

As noted, it will not make a great looking DVD look as good or better than a Blu Ray title, if that Blu Ray title was created properly (see most of the first run BR movies for examples of doing it wrong)

It's all about the quality of the source material.

Oh, and, 40GB/80GB have no difference between them for standard dvd playback.
 
ocellaris said:
Who comes up with this stuff? Upscaled SD DVDs look like ass compared to real HD content. And this is on a 32 inch Aquos, I suspect things would look even more like ass on a larger HD set.

I will say however that the PS3 seems to be a very good SD DVD player for overall responsiveness. Probably 50% of the time my PS3 is turned on, its playing a normal DVD movie.
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I see very little, if any difference on a LN-T4665 Samsung display. "Normal" dvds look outstanding as to opposed to "like ass".
 
The PS3 is an excellent DVD machine. I immediately noticed a huge difference between the upscaling of the PS3 and that of my old dedicated DVD player. PS3 blows it away.

Blu-ray, of course, is even better.

The PS3 is even known to play video games from time to time as well.
 
ocellaris said:
Who comes up with this stuff? Upscaled SD DVDs look like ass compared to real HD content. And this is on a 32 inch Aquos, I suspect things would look even more like ass on a larger HD set.

I will say however that the PS3 seems to be a very good SD DVD player for overall responsiveness. Probably 50% of the time my PS3 is turned on, its playing a normal DVD movie.
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Agreed, upscaled dvds look ok, but bluray is in another league. Its like playing a game on your pc at 850x480 with heavy antialiasing versus playing the same game at 1920x1080. I find it hard to believe that anyone who would be competent enough with technology to use the internet can't tell the difference between those two. That having been said, if you're limited by your tv then its a different story, but that obviously has nothing to do with bluray and makes the upscaling point moot anyway because your sd dvds won't look any better anyway.
 
Spaceman_Spiff said:
Agreed, upscaled dvds look ok, but bluray is in another league. Its like playing a game on your pc at 850x480 with heavy antialiasing versus playing the same game at 1920x1080. I find it hard to believe that anyone who would be competent enough with technology to use the internet can't tell the difference between those two. That having been said, if you're limited by your tv then its a different story, but that obviously has nothing to do with bluray and makes the upscaling point moot anyway because your sd dvds won't look any better anyway.
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I agree. I dont know what blu-rays the ppl who say upscaled dvds look as good as HD content are comparing to. But there is such a huge difference I can barely even watch SD dvds even upscaled anymore. Your video is only as good as its source, upscaled or not.
 
Like others have mentioned, the PS3 makes your DVD's look much better than on a non-upconverting DVD player. While some may or may not see a difference between a DVD upconverted vs. a Blu-Ray movie, there should be a difference. I have to admit though, some of the regular DVD's I've watched looked almost like it was in Blu-Ray.

On another note, one thing that really is annoying with the PS3 as a DVD/Blu-Ray player is that it does not resume playback when you stop a movie and turn it off. Hopefully Sony will figure it out and add this feature in their next update. My two minor gripes since switching from 360 to PS3:

1) no built-in IR receiver to use with Universal Remote (work-around with Nyko Blu Wave remote USB IR receiver)

2) no resume playback
 
Upscaled DVD's are as good as the original content. Pretty much none are going to be as good as a Blu-Ray, but some look really good...yet they still look nearly that good even without upscaling. For instance Sin City looks amazing, but it looks just as good when it isn't upscaled. It's not quite Blu-Ray, but it's not THAT far. Still, it looks just that good on my old-ass Sony region free DVD player that was one of the first to get progressive scan.
Upscaling really helps old DVD's look better moreso than newer ones IMO.
What it really does help are PS2 games, though. Some of those look horrible without it. With it, games like SF3 and FF10 look just like they should on an older SDTV.
 
I honestly haven't cared much for upscaled DVD's. I think standard DVD's look better on standard resolution TV's, but my last SDTV was an excellent Toshiba which is now in use as my "old" gaming screen (NES, SNES, etc). HDDVD and BD have the capability of prime PQ, but I think a lot of teh reason people don't see the difference is that few programs are using the full HD on the new discs. If it wasn't recorded well in the first place, you'll just get high-resolution shit...aka, a polished turd.
 
Thank you all for your comments and help.

I had the chance to compare a friend's PS3 with my current production DVD player (with HDMI set to "auto -480p up to 1080p), both feeding my LCD tv (1366x768).

To make a long story short: for watching SD DVD (my original question) I do not see a clear difference between PS3 and my DVD player. Therefore I am not buying the PS3.

Before some (maybe all) of you jump on me, let me say that I have seen the demos in the stores, and I AGREE THAT BLUE RAY IS IN ANOTHER LEAGUE.
 
Ignacio49 said:
Thank you all for your comments and help.

I had the chance to compare a friend's PS3 with my current production DVD player (with HDMI set to "auto -480p up to 1080p), both feeding my LCD tv (1366x768).

To make a long story short: for watching SD DVD (my original question) I do not see a clear difference between PS3 and my DVD player. Therefore I am not buying the PS3.

Before some (maybe all) of you jump on me, let me say that I have seen the demos in the stores, and I AGREE THAT BLUE RAY IS IN ANOTHER LEAGUE.
Click to expand...

Did you actually set the PS3s upscaling feature on? Its not on by default. PS3 has garnered some rave reviews on its upscaling and IQ scores on SDDVDs
 
It sounds like his normal DVD player upscales...so there likely isn't a difference. Granted the PS3 might do it better/worse but I doubt most of us could tell one upscaling DVD player from another without a lot of really careful comparisons.
 
Ignacio49 said:
Thank you all for your comments and help.

I had the chance to compare a friend's PS3 with my current production DVD player (with HDMI set to "auto -480p up to 1080p), both feeding my LCD tv (1366x768).

To make a long story short: for watching SD DVD (my original question) I do not see a clear difference between PS3 and my DVD player. Therefore I am not buying the PS3.

Before some (maybe all) of you jump on me, let me say that I have seen the demos in the stores, and I AGREE THAT BLUE RAY IS IN ANOTHER LEAGUE.
Click to expand...


auto 480p up to 1080p? how are you able to select the 1080p tickbox for a 1366x768 set? :rolleyes: as 4saken has stated the upscaling options are not enabled by default
 
Sixthsense said:
auto 480p up to 1080p? how are you able to select the 1080p tickbox for a 1366x768 set? :......
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AFAIK the output is adjusted to what the TV can take..... although I have to confess that I am not 100% sure about this, as the manual does not have much/clear information about it.
 
Ignacio49 said:
AFAIK the output is adjusted to what the TV can take..... although I have to confess that I am not 100% sure about this, as the manual does not have much/clear information about it.
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You are correct. Your LCD TV will display only in its native resolution. It will accept any signal from 480p-1080p and simply upconvert, or downconvert the signal to it's native resolution.
 
Kahnvex said:
You are correct. Your LCD TV will display only in its native resolution. It will accept any signal from 480p-1080p and simply upconvert, or downconvert the signal to it's native resolution.
Click to expand...

Therefore wouldn't you be better off outputting at 720p instead of upscaling to 1080p and then downscaling it back to 720?!

That's a lot of conversions to go through.
 
4saken said:
Did you actually set the PS3s upscaling feature on? Its not on by default. PS3 has garnered some rave reviews on its upscaling and IQ scores on SDDVDs
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This really isn't the case. The vast majority non-gaming, audio-video users and reviews don't have a lot of nice things to say about the PS3's upscaling output. It has improved with firmware updates but it cannot hold a candle to dedicated upscaling units...that sell above a certain pricepoint. As a tertiary function, the PS3's upscaling ability is very adequate.

It may also help the OP to clarify what it is the upscaling unit does and where it happens: since SD DVD output is at a native 480 lines any time you see SD content on an HD set, that content has been upconverted. If the DVD player lacks digital to digital connections (like HDMI) and you are seeing it on an HDTV, the TV is upscaling the image itself to it's default resolution. In many cases leaving the TV to do this itself is not the best choice for visual fidelity, but you -will- be able to view your library of DVDs. If you are using a dedicated piece of machinery to handle the upscaling you will nearly always get a better result due to the intended end use of the product's design, much like a PC add-in sound card offloads audio duty to dedicated hardware. Currently there are 3 widely used image processors in dedicated upscaling chipsets: Silicon Optix, Faroudja, and Realta, listed in order of the quality of their output and selling price, from low to high. Check prospective units for which they employ.

Ultimately, however, the viewing experience of SD content on an HD set is dictated by the quality of the DVD authoring. A poorly transfered film will not be doing itself any favors by being upconverted. Flaws that were invisible on 480i sets will be amplified on any HD display. On the other hand, a well-authored SD DVD can knock your socks off, even after being upscaled. I recently watched my DVD copy of The Empire Strikes Back on a 1080p TV and was floored; it looked as good/better than the film when it was released in theaters. Lilo & Stitch is similarly stunning upscaled, but make no mistake: if a good upsclaed DVD makes your mouth hang open, a well-authored HD disc will make your head explode. The difference is that great.

If you are interested, most sources agree that for the best price to performance ratio the Oppo DV981HD is the best SD DVD player / 1080p upscaler available today. At $220, it is also the best value for a high quality universal disc player. I own both a PS3 and the 981 and hands-down prefer the DVD output of the Oppo unit. As a BD player and media server, the PS3 is unmatched and an incredible machine.

I guess the moral of the story is that if you're picky, choose machines specific to their intended use for the best results.
 
Very good info, Opie...

Now, please help me understand this.

My tv is a Panasonic TC-32LX70, with a native resolution of 1366 x 768 pixels.
Via component or HDMI, it can display 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p signals. Manual says that "these signals are reformatted for optimal viewing" - I guess this means they are converted to tv's native resolution.

Questions:
1. said 1366x768 native resolution is equivalent to 720p?
2. if answer is yes, then the tv converts (reformat) the other (non 720p) signals to 720p so that they can be properly seen?
3. if so - and as aramis said - it makes sense to use a PS3 or capable SD DVD player to upscale a SD DVD signal to 720p, BUT NOT to 1080i or 1080p (cause the tv will re-convert to 720p ) .

And.. in addition to the above: if you use composite video (SD DVD or analog cable..), will the tv upscale this 480p signal to its native resolution, to be able to display it?

Thanks
 
aramis said:
Therefore wouldn't you be better off outputting at 720p instead of upscaling to 1080p and then downscaling it back to 720?!

That's a lot of conversions to go through.
Click to expand...

I agree, I'd set it to output at 720p, but in reality, I doubt we could tell the difference.

Either way though, it's two conversion, because the panel is going to convert to it's native rez which is really a 768p.

So DVD/PS3: (480p) ==>-1080p or 720p- ==> (768p) = 2 conversions. But I'd be lying if I said I thought anything but an exactly calibrated side by side same panel test would show any difference we could point out.
 
Opie's got some good points, and obviously knows his stuff, but let me add this: I had a $99 Sony upscaling dvd player. It was great and really made the most of my SD movies. When I got the PS3 I retired it and I honestly can't see any difference. I think the PS3 is a solid contender in upconverting movies.

Obviously his points as to the dvd authoring are really valid. For example I purchased the new Blade Runner Final Cut on dvd. I was REALLY impressed with the sound and quality of the transfer- they really did great work on it. After xmas I got the PS3 and I purchased this (lol double-dip) again on Blu-Ray. I was even further impressed with the transfer. It doesn't match up to all-digital films like Apocalypto, but for an almost 30 year old movie it looks great.

I think that the PS3 is more than adequate at upconversion and only those folks with the true high-end equipment will be able to tell the difference. On my 42" 1080p Philips set I can't see much difference between my upconverting standalone and my PS3 doing the upconversion. Obviously Blu-Ray is hands down a separate matter, as the visuals on it are jaw-dropping.
 
One other thing worth mentioning is that in some cases, the Blu-Ray version of a "special" edition might not be much more than the normal DVD. For instance I wanted to get the bells and whistles version of Superbad and only intended to get the normal DVD. It was retailing at $24 at Best Buy, while the Blu-Ray was $29. Yes, $29 a lot of money for a movie, but when it's only $5 more, it's EASILY worth it.
 
Domingo said:
One other thing worth mentioning is that in some cases, the Blu-Ray version of a "special" edition might not be much more than the normal DVD. For instance I wanted to get the bells and whistles version of Superbad and only intended to get the normal DVD. It was retailing at $24 at Best Buy, while the Blu-Ray was $29. Yes, $29 a lot of money for a movie, but when it's only $5 more, it's EASILY worth it.
Click to expand...

Adding to that, there are so many good deals on Blu-Ray movies right now I haven't paid more than $24 for a movie in a good while (with the 5-disc of Blade Runner being my only exception). Amazon, buy one get ones, and coupons make for some good deals if you look hard enough. AVS and blu-ray.com both have deal threads up that I check on a daily basis. Also, if you have a used place near you, you can find some great deals. I picked up Apocalypto and Road Warrior for $13.99 apiece used (and in near-mint condition).
 
Kahnvex said:
I agree, I'd set it to output at 720p, but in reality, I doubt we could tell the difference.

Either way though, it's two conversion, because the panel is going to convert to it's native rez which is really a 768p.

So DVD/PS3: (480p) ==>-1080p or 720p- ==> (768p) = 2 conversions. But I'd be lying if I said I thought anything but an exactly calibrated side by side same panel test would show any difference we could point out.
Click to expand...

its different from tv to tv. most newer HDTVs though accept 1080p/24 signals. most film is recorded at 24 frames per second. so this is a straight across signal and nets smoother video. so for many sets, that means just 1 or even zero fram conversions.

my tv, a Panasonic TC-32LX700 ( a 720p tv, 768p actual) does not downconvert 1080p to 768p and it doesn not upconvert 720p to 768p. instead it just straight scales it. so a Blu-ray inputting to my TV @ 1080p looks a bit better than a Blu-ray @ 720p. add in the 24 frames signal, and it is much more pleasing to watch. also, when inputting @ 1080p, all text and whatnot that is affected by the resolution change is still affected. again, it displays at its proper size, its just scaled through a 720p screen. if that makes sense. in the end, its better because the video is touched less so it has less resluting noise and aliasing.

I'll also re-iterate. uspcaling dvds is an attempt to keep them true to the original quality of its source. naturally, this nets different results from DVD to DVD. some of them look quite good, even suprisingly good. overall, upscaling makes it more acceptable and less jarring to watch a DVD on your HD screen.

but, I would never confuse a DVD for a Blu-ray or otherwise pure HD signal. Blu-ray looks drastically better. even on a 720p display. I try to avoid watching DVDs now if I can. even a bad Blu-ray transfer looks better than its DVD counterpart. most transfers on the recent movies are pretty damn great, if not awesome. its getting to a point where the transfer quality is a non issue because the movie studios are paying attention to what they are doing and realizing the insane benefits.

this doesn't mean everyone should go out and replace all of their DVDs. But, the point of having an HDTV is to feed it a radical HD signal. So it makes sense to make new movie purchases in an HD version. because seriously, you have not seen your HDTV until you've seen a Blu-ray on it.
 
chameleoneel said:
my tv, a Panasonic TC-32LX700 ( a 720p tv, 768p actual) does not downconvert 1080p to 768p and it doesn not upconvert 720p to 768p. instead it just straight scales it. so a Blu-ray inputting to my TV @ 1080p looks a bit better than a Blu-ray @ 720p. add in the 24 frames signal,
Click to expand...


I've never heard of a 720p native panel adapting/scaling a 1080p/24 signal. I'm not saying yours doesn't, because I'm no expert, nor do I have the ability to test the capability. But I do know that I looked through about 4-5 reviews all over the net, as well as the tech specs from Panasonic and other places, and nowhere does it mention being able to make any use of a 1080p/24 signal and adapt it any differently than any other LCD panel that will accept 480p/720p/1080i/1080p.

Your description of what your TV does basically goes against all knowledge I have of how an fixed resolution LCD adapts a non-native signal. Maybe someone else can enlighten me as to the technical difference between a 720p LCD scaling a 1080p signal down to it's native resolution, vs down converting it.

Where did you come to that conclusion?
 
Kahnvex said:
I've never heard of a 720p native panel adapting/scaling a 1080p/24 signal. I'm not saying yours doesn't, because I'm no expert, nor do I have the ability to test the capability. But I do know that I looked through about 4-5 reviews all over the net, as well as the tech specs from Panasonic and other places, and nowhere does it mention being able to make any use of a 1080p/24 signal and adapt it any differently than any other LCD panel that will accept 480p/720p/1080i/1080p.

Your description of what your TV does basically goes against all knowledge I have of how an fixed resolution LCD adapts a non-native signal. Maybe someone else can enlighten me as to the technical difference between a 720p LCD scaling a 1080p signal down to it's native resolution, vs down converting it.

Where did you come to that conclusion?
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Ditto here. Never heard of that. In fact, how is that even possible? The only solution I could come up with is that it displays a 1920 x 1080 resolution image on your XXX x 768 set, thus cropping out a good deal of the image.

I could definitely be wrong as I'm not an expert either, but it HAS to be displayed at the tv's maximum capable resolution or below. If it's above that resolution, it's either converting/downscaling the image, or it's cropping the hell out of it, which I've not heard before.
 
Ignacio49 said:
Thank you all for your comments and help.

I had the chance to compare a friend's PS3 with my current production DVD player (with HDMI set to "auto -480p up to 1080p), both feeding my LCD tv (1366x768).

To make a long story short: for watching SD DVD (my original question) I do not see a clear difference between PS3 and my DVD player. Therefore I am not buying the PS3.

Before some (maybe all) of you jump on me, let me say that I have seen the demos in the stores, and I AGREE THAT BLUE RAY IS IN ANOTHER LEAGUE.
Click to expand...

Well there's your problem! You're feeding your TV a 1080p feed, and it has to downconvert it to 720p. Just upscale to 720p instead, so no extra scaling is needed.

aramis said:
Ditto here. Never heard of that. In fact, how is that even possible? The only solution I could come up with is that it displays a 1920 x 1080 resolution image on your XXX x 768 set, thus cropping out a good deal of the image.
Click to expand...

Some newer 720p TVs accept a 1080p input and downscale it to 720p. TV scalers usually suck, so he's definitely losing some video quality because of this.

Honestly though, some people just won't see the difference. I, for example, notice a huge difference between TV movies and anything on disc based media...the bitrates for TV movies are so terrible that there's relatively no contrast in the picture, and it macroblocks to hell.

On the other hand, I can show my mom side by side stills comparing 640*480 DVD (upscaled to 1080p) and 1920*1080 High Definition, and she won't even notice the difference!
 
ex0du5 said:
Well there's your problem! You're feeding your TV a 1080p feed, and it has to downconvert it to 720p. Just upscale to 720p instead, so no extra scaling is needed.



Some newer 720p TVs accept a 1080p input and downscale it to 720p. TV scalers usually suck, so he's definitely losing some video quality because of this.
Click to expand...

Ok... but it's still converting the 1080p signal down to 720p. That was my confusion.
 
c4eater said:
Upscaling makes sd dvds look virtually as good as br content, at least I don't see a difference. The ps3's fans will run ocassionally, as the hardware upscales, whereas it's basically silent during br playback...but the fans are low db to begin with.
Click to expand...

You're very wrong, sir. There is a huge difference. Take it from a guy who has a 1080p display.
 
I again tried my friend's PS3 with my current production SD DVD player. This time I made sure both HDMI's were outputting 720p to my LCD tv (1366x768).

Please keep in mind that mi intention was to compare the image quality of SD DVD movies when played with the PS3 and with my current production SD DVD player. I insist in noting that my sd dvd is an up to date/current production unit.

By the way, I was using "Legends of the Fall", an excellent movie with outstanding SD image quality (IQ).

Bottom line: There may be differences, but these are very difficult to see. Sometimes you think you saw a difference...then you look at it again and you are not sure....
It was not so easy to compare both images, because when I adjusted the tv picture to get "the best.." IQ from the PS3, the dvd PQ was not optimal, requiring minor tv adjustments to get the same IQ.

So, this was MY CASE. With my mentioned gear, the sd dvd movie I used, and my eyes, there is no noticeable difference. With an older dvd player, or lower quality movie, or ....... the results could have been different.

And finally, I repeat what I mentined before: I have seen the BD demos in the stores, and there is no doubt: BLUE RAY IS IN ANOTHER LEAGUE.
 
Spaceman_Spiff said:
Agreed, upscaled dvds look ok, but bluray is in another league. Its like playing a game on your pc at 850x480 with heavy antialiasing versus playing the same game at 1920x1080. I find it hard to believe that anyone who would be competent enough with technology to use the internet can't tell the difference between those two. That having been said, if you're limited by your tv then its a different story, but that obviously has nothing to do with bluray and makes the upscaling point moot anyway because your sd dvds won't look any better anyway.
Click to expand...

So much of this is dependent on the two media in question. Some DVDs look pretty good as it is upconverted, and there are some REALLY trashy looking BluRays (Bruce Springsteen Live in Dublin). I would put most upscaled DVDs ahead of the Springsteen BRD in terms of picture quality.

If you're sitting a long way from the TV, it's also going to be hard to tell the difference. While there certainly IS a pronounced difference, especially if you watch a lot of BRDs then go back to DVD, it's easy to see where a person could say there is little difference when dealing with so many other variables.
 
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