R600 - 610 - 630 Question on HDMI Audio

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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Do any of you care that R600 will have a built in HD audio controller that you will be able to access across HDMI? Actually RV610 and RV630 will have built in audio controller too, which will make them more of an HTPC card than the power hungry R600. Will be sub-35w and sub-25w boards on 310 and sub-50w and sub75w boards on 630.

Anyway, back to my question. How many of you would/do actually use Audio over HDMI cable? I know that I do not run audio to any of my panels in my home. All my audio systems are not native to the panel.

(Oh also, R600 will be 100GB/sec peak memory bandwidth. Pretty impressive goal to reach. Wowsers! :eek: )
 
IMO it's an unnecessary addition to the cards. I certainly won't use the audio off the video cards.

Unfortunately this is also a cost driver. Raising the price of the card.
 
I may have totaly misunderstood your question or have taken it completely out of context, however bare with me :).

I do run audio over HDMI; just not when it comes to my PC. I'm using Audio over HDMI for my HT setup, but that's about it. However, even this doesn't go directly to my panel, but rather my receiver.

Anywho, in regards to what ATI is doing; I'm not sure if it makes much sense at all. I'm assuming what ATI is doing only affects those whom have monitors with Integrated speakers - right? Therefore, it's practically useless for us "gamers" that have an "external" speaker setup...which I would think relates to the majority of gamers..?

If this were to drive up cost or really increase power consumption; then I'd think it's a stupid move. However, if we are given the ability to "disable" the audio controller, and the implementation of the controller didn't increase the price (which I'm sure it will), then so be it. I guess there may be a few who can make use of it, but I'd think the majority of gamers have an external speaker setup, thus rendering the HDMI audio useless.
 
for the most part if I was to run an HDMI Connection it would be into my receiver then to my TV so it is kind of cool that I don't have to run seperate wires over 20feet, but how cost effective is it, at the current price of HDMI cables it would cost me less to run 1 DVI cable and 1 Coax / Optical cable 20feet
 
It would seem to me that people who have the cash for R600 will have creative x-fi and therefore not give a crap.

f
 
I will use this in a heartbeat. I love to hook my computer up to my 1080P SXRD Sony HDTV. Currently, I have to use a DVI > HDMI Adapter to get video signal to the TV, and I've never been able to get the audio to work very well with the TV. I'm looking forward to ATI's implementation not only for added convenience, but hopefully, my audio issues will be solved.
 
Arkanian said:
Question, does audio over HDMI = audio via optical cable??
Click to expand...

No. An HDMI cable is different from an Optical Cable.

Digital Viper-X- said:
for the most part if I was to run an HDMI Connection it would be into my receiver then to my TV so it is kind of cool that I don't have to run seperate wires over 20feet, but how cost effective is it, at the current price of HDMI cables it would cost me less to run 1 DVI cable and 1 Coax / Optical cable 20feet
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. It would, of course, depend on who you bought the cable from. Check out monoprice for HDMI cables :D.
 
Arkanian said:
Question, does audio over HDMI = audio via optical cable??
Click to expand...

HDMI has more bandwidth than optical, allowing you to do uncompressed audio over more than 2 channels.

I am using HDMI for audio and video with my PS3, and TiVo S3.

Very happy with the added features and the simplicity of the connection.

BTW, for everyone that thinks HDMI is too expensive, check out www.monoprice.com you can get great quality cables for very cheap prices.

If I went back to an HTPC in the future I would love to use HDMI w/ audio for it.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
for the most part if I was to run an HDMI Connection it would be into my receiver then to my TV so it is kind of cool that I don't have to run separate wires over 20feet, but how cost effective is it, at the current price of HDMI cables it would cost me less to run 1 DVI cable and 1 Coax / Optical cable 20feet
Click to expand...


So your receiver handles your audio and video signals then you split it out from there? So, what type of connection are you using between your receiver and display/speakers-amp?
 
If i was building it for an HTPC then you bet I would use it. But for a High End graphics card used for PC gaming, waste of money.
 
Colt___45 said:
I will use this in a heartbeat. I love to hook my computer up to my 1080P SXRD Sony HDTV. Currently, I have to use a DVI > HDMI Adapter to get video signal to the TV, and I've never been able to get the audio to work very well with the TV. I'm looking forward to ATI's implementation not only for added convenience, but hopefully, my audio issues will be solved.
Click to expand...

So you are using the built in speakers on the HDTV, but you have never been able to get them to work well, why?
 
I really like the idea as I use my Westy 37" as a TV and a computer monitor.
With audio coming from the R600 it would allow me to use my TV speakers if I wanted.
This will also allow me to use a receiver with higher quality speakers than the 5.1 Logitech's I have. I think for many users though it would be useless since they would have a dedicated sound card and 2.1 or 5.1 speakers connected to it.

I am sure this is a bid to create a card for all purposes. As long as it doesn't interfere with a dedicated sound card and add too much to the cost then I think it is a valuable addition. Just not to the majority of users out there.
 
I think that there is a huge market for cards with intergreted audio because now that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are available for PCs people want to have lossless audio and PCM to there recievers but these are only available through HDMI. Until sound cards offer output HDMI, the R600 would sell well to HTPC builders.
 
Arkanian said:
Question, does audio over HDMI = audio via optical cable??
Click to expand...

HDMI audio goes over HDMI, since HDMI signal is digital. Optical cable isn't even included in this equation.

As far as for my answer to the thread. I think they should actually provide the capability for those who are using their PC on HT. I know that it may sound like it's no big deal, but it makes it so much easier and nicer. For example, I have my DVD plugged into the TV via HDMI. The TV plugged into a simple 5.1 speaker system via Digital Coax. When I play DVD, I don't have to switch to different connector on the speakers, because it passes the digital signal to the TV, the TV passes it to the speakers. So I believe it will make more sense that they at least offer the capability for those that wants it.
 
Jiffylush said:
HDMI has more bandwidth than optical, allowing you to do uncompressed audio over more than 2 channels.

I am using HDMI for audio and video with my PS3, and TiVo S3.

Very happy with the added features and the simplicity of the connection.

BTW, for everyone that thinks HDMI is too expensive, check out www.monoprice.com you can get great quality cables for very cheap prices.

If I went back to an HTPC in the future I would love to use HDMI w/ audio for it.
Click to expand...

Most likely the extra Bandwidth is needed for Video. But optical cable is just as good, but currently it only offers digital audio stream (well at least that's what's on the market, don't know if it'll change).:p
 
I wouldn't use it for a HT...

I wonder if they'll be making HDMI PC speakers anytime soon. I'd get rid of my creative card anyday! Especially since I dont' use it under vista.
 
you guys do understand that most new tv's have a digital audio out jack (generally optical) so that you can feed those hdmi devices directly to your tv and then send the digital audio back to the receiver. this is good for those of us that don't have hdmi jacks on our receivers.
 
Zefram0911 said:
I wouldn't use it for a HT...

I wonder if they'll be making HDMI PC speakers anytime soon. I'd get rid of my creative card anyday! Especially since I dont' use it under vista.
Click to expand...

Interesting thought on the PC speakers. I'm not sure if it will be really useful since you really don't have HDMI interfaces on PC other than for Video. Maybe USB might be good since all you need is for is Audio Streams. Just IMHO
 
I don't have a reciever in my living room, so everything goes to my tv. it's got an HDMI input and I would love to make use of it. The simplicity of the video and audio going over one cable, rather than separate video and audio cables is the key for me. It works either way, but I've got enough cables going in and out of things as it is.
 
th3 godfather said:
you guys do understand that most new tv's have a digital audio out jack (generally optical) so that you can feed those hdmi devices directly to your tv and then send the digital audio back to the receiver. this is good for those of us that don't have hdmi jacks on our receivers.
Click to expand...

Took the words right out of my head. :) :)
 
The problem with current implementations of audio over HDMI (when applied to PCs) is that they use SPDIF input to get the audio to the video card. SPDIF doesn't have the same amount of bandwidth available to it that a "traditional" HDMI connection has but this is only an issue if you are using it with a HD/DVD or Blue-ray drive and are using the TrueHD audio stream. SPDIF just can't do it.

So having an audio controller onboard is a rather nice sidestep of the SPDIF issue but it's only going to be useful when used in an HTPC of sorts. I doubt anyone else would actually benefit at all from it.
 
I think it's fantastic because it'll allow gamers to create 60+ inch HDTV television gaming experiences without any hassle.

It's an option that I'm sure the majority of people won't use (unless it's on the lower end cards; as you say the possibilities for HTPCs sound great), but it could prove to be fucking great for a LAN or permanent home game setup.
 
Sounds like a great idea for a HTPC if this pans out. There was a topic over at avsforum discussing HDMI soundcards. Hopefully ATI can pull this one off, I think it will do a lot for expanding the role of media PC.
 
quadnad said:
I think it's fantastic because it'll allow gamers to create 60+ inch HDTV television gaming experiences without any hassle.

It's an option that I'm sure the majority of people won't use (unless it's on the lower end cards; as you say the possibilities for HTPCs sound great), but it could prove to be fucking great for a LAN or permanent home game setup.
Click to expand...
I don't see how it's any really different then what you can do now with a DVI and SPDIF out cable.

Answers like this make me think that some people seem to think that HDMI is a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. HDMI is pretty much only useful for helping to clean up cable clutter and in CE/HTPC setups.
 
CrimandEvil said:
I don't see how it's any really different then what you can do now with a DVI and SPDIF out cable.
Click to expand...

Well with HDMI you'd only have to deal with one cable (woohoo?), but more importantly isn't it the case that DVI isn't HDCP compatible? Which would mean that the new media formats wouldn't play through your machine to the TV. I'm not sure about all this DRM stuff, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
th3 godfather said:
you guys do understand that most new tv's have a digital audio out jack (generally optical) so that you can feed those hdmi devices directly to your tv and then send the digital audio back to the receiver. this is good for those of us that don't have hdmi jacks on our receivers.
Click to expand...

However, you will need a fairly decent receiver with lag compensation. I haven't read one good bit of news on this at AVS or any other major forum on reasonable priced sets. It still defeats the purpose though running a cable to your TV, then a cable from the TV to the receiver. However, if you have a receiver that can handle multiple HDMI inputs with the audio stream and then have a single HDMI/DVI cable to your TV/Monitor...then it is very much worth it IMO.

One more thing though...if your TV has an optical out...you just lost your uncompressed audio....sorry.

1280p + uncompressed audio should be the "goal"....and optical/coax can't do that.
 
quadnad said:
Well with HDMI you'd only have to deal with one cable (woohoo?), but more importantly isn't it the case that DVI isn't HDCP compatible? Which would mean that the new media formats wouldn't play through your machine to the TV. I'm not sure about all this DRM stuff, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

DVI supports HDCP

HDMI is nothing more than DVI + audio + new connector/cable in a simplified sense.

--------

However, what you may be chomping at is that not all DVI interfaces natively have HDCP unlike HDMI.
 
quadnad said:
Well with HDMI you'd only have to deal with one cable (woohoo?), but more importantly isn't it the case that DVI isn't HDCP compatible? Which would mean that the new media formats wouldn't play through your machine to the TV. I'm not sure about all this DRM stuff, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
HDMI can be boiled down to DVI + audio. My video card currently has two DVI ports on it with the first one having HDCP on it (7900GS); so yes DVI does indeed support HDCP.

Not like it matters. HDCP support has nothing to do with gaming and it would be very hard/stupid for the gaming industry to accept it simple cause it offers them pretty much nothing. That is unless you plan on recording your self playing CCS or something and selling it....?

For the movie industry HDCP support means everything; for anyone else HDCP means jack shit.

As for the one cable thing; like I said thats great and all but is one more cable going to actually make any difference in anyone setup? Now, if I had everything running HDMI to a receiver then yeah maybe but then we're back to talking about a HT setup and even then it's only useful if I'm using in with some sort of HD DVD drive.
 
My Bro just got a 52" HDTV, he is really looking forward to the new HDMI port on the R600 cards. Less wires to run from his PC to his TV for HD video gaming and 6.1 surround sound.
 
brom42 said:
I have a reciever that has 3 HDMI inputs and 1HDMI output. It also up-converts everything else to HDMI. So my receiver pulls out the audio and then sends up the video to the TV. Works wonderfully. I like only having 1 connection to my TV. The only problem is the reciever won't convert 1080p over component to HDMI, so my 360 is stuck at 1080i. :(
Click to expand...

I'm also stuck at 1080i output from my devices (360, DVDs). However my TV set de-interlaces 1080i and outputs 1080p -- So it's always outputting 1080p. In my opinion the 1080i vs 1080p is subjective to what you're doing. But from what i've read you're getting pretty much the same number of lines (resolutions), but the main differents is 1080i interlaces your images and 1080p doesn't. They say many current movies won't aren't even going to hit the 1080p of 60fps anyway. I'm not stating any facts just what i've read on the internet when I found out that the Toshiba 62HM192 doesn't take 1080p inputs, even though it says it does 1080p (Go figure).
 
Hexen525 said:
My Bro just got a 52" HDTV, he is really looking forward to the new HDMI port on the R600 cards. Less wires to run from his PC to his TV for HD video gaming and 6.1 surround sound.
Click to expand...
The problem with that is TVs don't have intergrated 6.1 surround sound; he's going to have to run an additional cable regardless if he wants that.
 
LANm0nk3y said:
I'm not stating any facts just what i've read on the internet when I found out that the Toshiba 62HM192 doesn't take 1080p inputs, even though it says it does 1080p (Go figure).
Click to expand...

There was a very large thread on this at AVS that what it can display and what it can accept may not be equal. Seems stupid......well, it is.
 
CrimandEvil said:
I don't see how it's any really different then what you can do now with a DVI and SPDIF out cable.

Answers like this make me think that some people seem to think that HDMI is a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. HDMI is pretty much only useful for helping to clean up cable clutter and in CE/HTPC setups.
Click to expand...
You cannot transfer lossless 5.1/7/1 audio over SPDIF; there is not enough bandwidth and so the audio must be compressed. 2 channel is the max for lossless transfer over SPDIF. This means that some of the newer HD audio formats, such as dolby TrueHD would not be supported. Does this affect everyone? Of course not, but if you have shelled out $ for an uber HQ sound system then it could be an actual "problem", non-life threatening as it may be.
 
CrimandEvil said:
HDMI can be boiled down to DVI + audio. My video card currently has two DVI ports on it with the first one having HDCP on it (7900GS); so yes DVI does indeed support HDCP.
Click to expand...

wow...now I feel completely ridiculous. I follow hardware religiously, and for some reason I completely forgot when they were releasing the newer 7900s with HDCP support...obviously they aren't running HDMI!

Trepidati0n said:
However, what you may be chomping at is that not all DVI interfaces natively have HDCP unlike HDMI.
Click to expand...
right, right, thats what I was getting at :D

I suppose it just gets down to simplification really. I think it'll be great to have everything done on one card, running one cable. Perhaps with AVIVO those low end R6XX parts could prove to be awesome HTPC cards. I just think that R600+Crysis on a gigantic HDTV would be breathtaking...of course, I'll only be able to afford an HDTV when I've got my first proper job! (yay for getting the fuck out of college..)
 
whrswoldo said:
You cannot transfer lossless 5.1/7/1 audio over SPDIF; there is not enough bandwidth and so the audio must be compressed. 2 channel is the max for lossless transfer over SPDIF. This means that some of the newer HD audio formats, such as dolby TrueHD would not be supported. Does this affect everyone? Of course not, but if you have shelled out $ for an uber HQ sound system then it could be an actual "problem", non-life threatening as it may be.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly what I said; why are you trying to ague with?
 
whrswoldo said:
You cannot transfer lossless 5.1/7/1 audio over SPDIF; there is not enough bandwidth and so the audio must be compressed. 2 channel is the max for lossless transfer over SPDIF. This means that some of the newer HD audio formats, such as dolby TrueHD would not be supported. Does this affect everyone? Of course not, but if you have shelled out $ for an uber HQ sound system then it could be an actual "problem", non-life threatening as it may be.
Click to expand...

Couldn't you think they could actually send sound processing internally through drivers and what not, and pass it through the HDMI? Just a question. I'm not too savy on the audio stuff. I mean, this way you're not outputting anything that isn't supported on your audiocard. In essent, it'd be like a pass-through.
 
It's all about DRM. If you want to watch a blu-ray or HDDVD movie, and you want sound, and do this all from your computer, you're going to need that content protection from disk to displays. And speakers. That probably means most onboard and PCI cards are out of the equation, seeing how "What-You-Hear" recording is built into them.
 
I think it's great.

It's my hopes that I can someday consolidate my TV and Computer areas; using only one display, set of speakers, a/v receiver, etc. to control all my devices (computer, consoles, dvr, dvd), and wire as much of this using HDMI as possible.

One cable to rule them all (and avoid clutter)! =P
 
LANm0nk3y said:
I'm also stuck at 1080i output from my devices (360, DVDs). However my TV set de-interlaces 1080i and outputs 1080p -- So it's always outputting 1080p. In my opinion the 1080i vs 1080p is subjective to what you're doing. But from what i've read you're getting pretty much the same number of lines (resolutions), but the main differents is 1080i interlaces your images and 1080p doesn't. They say many current movies won't aren't even going to hit the 1080p of 60fps anyway. I'm not stating any facts just what i've read on the internet when I found out that the Toshiba 62HM192 doesn't take 1080p inputs, even though it says it does 1080p (Go figure).
Click to expand...

I have a Westy 37" and to be honest I don't know the difference between my 360 at 1080i vs 1080p because it de-interlaces it up to 1080p. I am just anal about it and want to run it at 1080p, just because.
 
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