Rainbow Six 4: Assimilated

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Obi_Kwiet

2[H]4U
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Dec 25, 2004
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After reading a recent preview of Rainbow Six 4 for PC, I'm very dissapointed.

This section here is the trouble.

We should also note that Lockdown isn't a "one shot, one kill" game like previous Rainbow Six games, either. In early Rainbow Six games, you have the barest margin for error, since a single shot can put a commando out of commission. However, Lockdown is a lot more forgiving, since each commando has a health bar consisting of three bars. If you're wounded, you take damage. If you take enough damage, you lose a health bar. If you lose all three health bars, the commando is dead. And since you can't switch between commandos, if your main character dies, you've got to reload the mission. The version we had also featured two difficulty settings, normal and challenge. Unfortunately, from what we can tell, challenge doesn't make the game one-shot, one-kill. Instead, it appears that enemies are just tougher to take down, and you still have the three-bar health system.
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This isn't Far Cry. This is supposed to be a realistic shooter. The franchise had a style of gameplay all its own. Now they're turning it into another generic, boring shooter by ruining the damage. I don't care what the graphics are like. They totally ruined the gameplay buy doing that. Were not playing with game pads here, we're using keyboards and mice. It seems like the game industry is determined to make every shooter feel like the same thing with different skins. I will definitely not buy the crap. If you think I'm over reacting, watch the game play video. :mad:
 
Good.

Finally they are getting rid of the Super Marksmen aim that enemies seemed to have last go-around.

So look at it as flesh wounds and then you die with another hit.

Not a big deal.
 
drewb99 said:
Meh, Rainbow Six has been dead since Rogue Spear :/
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Thats not true Raven Shield was very good. That preview has pretty much sealed my disecion on not getting the game. The Rainbow Six series has lost 1 loyal player.

Good.
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Not good. The fact that the series is based on ultra realism is what set this FPS apart from the others. Now Rainbow Six is just another military based FPS among many.
 
I'll have to see the damage system for myself, but if it's not very similar to REAL Rainbow Six games then I'll be stuck with Raven Shield for a few more years.
 
Tiny said:
Good.

Finally they are getting rid of the Super Marksmen aim that enemies seemed to have last go-around.

So look at it as flesh wounds and then you die with another hit.

Not a big deal.
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Ever taken a bullet? This is supposed to be realistic, not generic shooter #23,495.
 
This was the first game I really loved to play online (long nights on multiplayer oil rig and mint :) ). Hopefully this new damage system works in a way that is beneficial, like if you get shot in the leg it slows you down like the last one, but doesn't kill you, but 1 or 2 chest shots and you're dead. Hopefully it doesn't stray too much from the classic r6 formula, I'm not gonna make a decision until I play it.


PS- Rainbow six has never been one shot one kill (usually took 2-3 w/ a machine gun;)) unless it was in the right place, like I described up above, even the original r6, so we'll see, and RS:RvS rocked! Only thing I'm worried about is this new level design...
 
I just watched the videos and didn't see anything to be nervous about. Graphics looked good and it looked to follow classic r6 gameplay. I'm just glad this is coming out, I though for shure they scrapped this game (I'm guessing it's gonna be called lockdown, right?).
 
Yes, I was shot in the thigh. I didn't die. I didn't move so well, but I didn't die. Then again I wasn't wearing full body armour either.
 
I'll reserve judgement for when it comes out but as a huge fan of the R6 series I don't like what I am hearing. Along with the damage system, not being able to switch commandos during the game would suck. My friends and I continue to play Raven Shield at our lan parties and it is never a let down. It would be a shame for R6:4 to lose the magic of the series.
 
AWWWWWWWWWWWWWW they ruined the RS style.. which makes them one of a kind.... I loved the one hit kill... VERY realistic OMGOMG
 
I'll have to wait and play it also...but if that fails, there's a HUGE modding community that's always been making new maps and such for Raven Shield...that should hold over for awhile until another decent game takes it's place. Which...from the looks of things...it will be a looong time before anything replaces good ole' Raven Shield.
 
I'm thinking that the damage system is much more forgiving in the single player than in the multiplayer... But that is just me hoping.
 
Obi_Kwiet said:
Ever taken a bullet? This is supposed to be realistic, not generic shooter #23,495.
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Have you?

Depending on where you're shot and what you're shot with, it's possible to keep going if you're motivated. Obviously you're not gonna come back from a head shot, but if you're shot in the arm or leg with smaller rounds it's concievable (though not recommended, heh). Maybe even a shot to the torso if you get lucky.

You should wait to see how it's implemented. If they assign a gutshot two bars, an arm/leg shot one bar, and chest/head shots all three bars, that won't ruin the game at all.
 
Tiny said:
Yes, I was shot in the thigh. I didn't die. I didn't move so well, but I didn't die. Then again I wasn't wearing full body armour either.
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There's another good point. Depending on the location of the shot and the size and speed of the incoming round, armor might reduce damage. Having three bars just makes official what wasn't really clear in RS quite often. Any kind of armor ought to reduce a chest shot to non-lethal unless an armor piercing round is used, though larger rounds should still be all but crippling. A slug (within optimum range of course) or a sniper should probably put you out with light or even medium armor.

edit:
There are definately situations where one shot/one kill should not be the rule. What about heavy armor vs. silenced 5.7? That should be annoying at best to the target. If you increase the round to .40 (medium hand gun round), then you should be inflicting some hurt. A 7.62 (most assault ammo) should be breaking bones. And that's being conservative. My understanding is that heavy armor consists of two steel plates at the chest and kevlar for the extremities. It could definately protect better than my estimation.

They should have a system in place to track degrees of damage because these situations.

edit2: Does suck about the removal of squad-switching, though. I never used it that much (I played the leader, and losing my most valuable member was never excusable to me), but it was nice to have it.

On the plus side, that will perhaps raise the immersion factor of the actual experience of playing. You can't get the true experience going into combat knowing that if you get shot in the face, you can just hit the space bar and become the next dude behind you.
 
I played Rainbox Six 3 on my XBox and loved it. I played it constantly online. It was tons of fun, and the only other FPS that's been so fun for me was Halo 2 (also on XBox).

My question is, does it play similarly on PC? I know FPS is faster on PC, and I don't mind that. However I haven't been sold on the "ZOOM ZOOM JUMP SHOOT ZOOM DUCKDOGESHOOTJUMP KILL" style of some of the FPS games today (you know the ones I'm talking about, where your enemy goes halfway across the screen when you blink). Anyways, I'm thinking this may be more for me, as far as online play goes. Is there a HUGE difference between the way RS3 played on XBox and PC?
 
Tiny said:
Good.

Finally they are getting rid of the Super Marksmen aim that enemies seemed to have last go-around.

So look at it as flesh wounds and then you die with another hit.

Not a big deal.
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go play halo or something

.. i love rainbow six.. and as other people said Raven shield was fucking awesome..

i think it's gay that they're turning it into anothe run of the mill FPS.. though.. i was kind of expecting... good games are disappearing fast...
 
DudeItsMe said:
My question is, does it play similarly on PC? Is there a HUGE difference between the way RS3 played on XBox and PC?
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I would guess it's actually not that much faster paced on the PC. I don't really know, but everything tends to take a little bit of time to pull off and that probably evens the playing field with consoles a bit. I mean, crouching takes half a second or so, going prone takes about a second. I think using grenades actually seems like it's slower than it would be in real life (in real life, I wouldn't have to put my gun away to use a grenade, i could just let it hang where it is). Probably one of the rare FPSs that works almost as well on the console.
 
Postal Blowfish said:
There's another good point. Depending on the location of the shot and the size and speed of the incoming round, armor might reduce damage. Having three bars just makes official what wasn't really clear in RS quite often. Any kind of armor ought to reduce a chest shot to non-lethal unless an armor piercing round is used, though larger rounds should still be all but crippling. A slug (within optimum range of course) or a sniper should probably put you out with light or even medium armor.

edit:
There are definately situations where one shot/one kill should not be the rule. What about heavy armor vs. silenced 5.7? That should be annoying at best to the target. If you increase the round to .40 (medium hand gun round), then you should be inflicting some hurt. A 7.62 (most assault ammo) should be breaking bones. And that's being conservative. My understanding is that heavy armor consists of two steel plates at the chest and kevlar for the extremities. It could definately protect better than my estimation.

They should have a system in place to track degrees of damage because these situations.

edit2: Does suck about the removal of squad-switching, though. I never used it that much (I played the leader, and losing my most valuable member was never excusable to me), but it was nice to have it.

On the plus side, that will perhaps raise the immersion factor of the actual experience of playing. You can't get the true experience going into combat knowing that if you get shot in the face, you can just hit the space bar and become the next dude behind you.
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There's been a pulse meter to gauge damage since the first game. Heavy armor is more prone to being injured but not killed, light armor isn't. The badguys occasionally used armor which is why the MP5/10 is so handy.
 
Slightly off-topic, but is there a game where damage affects movement/aiming, that actually does it well? I think it's a really cool idea, but doing it well for both AI and MP would be damn near impossible. I suppose in time someone's going to figure it out.
 
DudeItsMe said:
Slightly off-topic, but is there a game where damage affects movement/aiming, that actually does it well? I think it's a really cool idea, but doing it well for both AI and MP would be damn near impossible. I suppose in time someone's going to figure it out.
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there is always time my friend... always... well.. till 2012
 
Postal Blowfish said:
Have you?

Depending on where you're shot and what you're shot with, it's possible to keep going if you're motivated. Obviously you're not gonna come back from a head shot, but if you're shot in the arm or leg with smaller rounds it's concievable (though not recommended, heh). Maybe even a shot to the torso if you get lucky.

You should wait to see how it's implemented. If they assign a gutshot two bars, an arm/leg shot one bar, and chest/head shots all three bars, that won't ruin the game at all.
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I have experienced enough pain to know that unless you're are on some sort of super adrenaline high, you won't be able to fire back for a while. Bullets have a way of grabbing the attention. Either way, you won't really be effective.
 
DudeItsMe said:
I played Rainbox Six 3 on my XBox and loved it. I played it constantly online. It was tons of fun, and the only other FPS that's been so fun for me was Halo 2 (also on XBox).

My question is, does it play similarly on PC? I know FPS is faster on PC, and I don't mind that. However I haven't been sold on the "ZOOM ZOOM JUMP SHOOT ZOOM DUCKDOGESHOOTJUMP KILL" style of some of the FPS games today (you know the ones I'm talking about, where your enemy goes halfway across the screen when you blink). Anyways, I'm thinking this may be more for me, as far as online play goes. Is there a HUGE difference between the way RS3 played on XBox and PC?
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The Xbox versions of R6 are always a lot more arcade like. This was especially true with Lockdown. RS3 was more of a port from Raven Shield on PC to consoles.
 
Obi_Kwiet said:
I have experienced enough pain to know that unless you're are on some sort of super adrenaline high, you won't be able to fire back for a while. Bullets have a way of grabbing the attention. Either way, you won't really be effective.
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I realize the consequences are dire, but it really depends on how you were hit. No one just shakes off a gunshot.
 
Obi_Kwiet said:
I have experienced enough pain to know that unless you're are on some sort of super adrenaline high, you won't be able to fire back for a while. Bullets have a way of grabbing the attention. Either way, you won't really be effective.
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So, thats a no to being shot.

Being shot in the arms or parts of the body which do not have the layered plates protecting them will hurt a shitload more, but opposite limbs can do the work for the time being, one can limp, for instance, for a long time.

Adrenaline is already high in a gun fight. Shoot a gun sometime. Interview a soldier. Better yet, get a friend that's seen combat first hand. I've heard plenty of "I got shot in the vest, it hurt, and then i shot back at the mofo" stories. It doesn't take as long as one might think to start shooting back. May not be AS effective, but you can, in essence, begin returning fire.
 
Yeah, you can't forget that these are the highest ranking elite covert ops teams in the world (that what the game tells you). So they obviously have the best equipment in body armor and stuff. The way it's gonna work is probably the the RvS system w. the one little circle and it has 3 capacities: full, half and empty. The new one will have an extra one w/ the third bar (and you could get hit in RvS without loosing any part of the circle so that's where the extra bar may come in). I think people are getting their undies in a bundle over what some person said in a preview who probably doesn't really know what he is talking about...
 
Well regardless of what they have done to the health, I will be getting this game. Nothing beat setting your teams in the commander screen and try to make them clear the level with out being killed.

I use to spend hours going through a level and killing the bad guys and then try set it so that my team could do all the work as I watched them.
That was the fun of the game, trying different tactics to save the hostage or storm the power plant.

I have always enjoyed the R6 games, Raven Shield was my fav to date.
 
As far as I know, there is no pre mission planning system in the game so you won't really be able to do that.
 
slightly off topic, but the only other game I've REALLY enjoyed recently that compared to the fun and tactics of Raven Shield was Swat 4. I think that game was almost as fun as RS at local lans. Both games had great team play.
 
xSnowmaNx said:
As far as I know, there is no pre mission planning system in the game so you won't really be able to do that.
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WHAT!
Every R6 game has had the preplaning!
You telling me they won't have it in this one?
BS!
I will not get the game if it's not in.
Thats what made R6 different than things like SWAT and all other 3rdPS's.
 
Majin said:
WHAT!
Every R6 game has had the preplaning!
You telling me they won't have it in this one?
BS!
I will not get the game if it's not in.
Thats what made R6 different than things like SWAT and all other 3rdPS's.
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http://www.gamespot.com/pages/gamespace/updates.php?pid=925341&sid=6141888

GameSpot said:
Still, we should note that the PC version of Lockdown isn't quite Rainbow Six as you may know it. First, the trademark mission planning that the series is known for is gone. Now, after you outfit your team from the extensive array of weapons and equipment options (at least that remains untouched), you launch directly into the mission. You no longer have the ability to plan out your team's attack, and while most players generally skipped this phase, it was one of the things that made Rainbow Six different from virtually every other shooter on the market.
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drewb99 said:
Wow, why are they making this game? :confused:
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because Ubisoft is now going the way of EA and just making console ports b/c they're cheapasses.
 
The thing is, this doesn't look like a console port... I could be wrong, the graphics look 10x better, and they probably did a lot more with the online stuff. I don't know if the maps or anything will be the same. Only time will tell.
 
I really meant the style of gameplay and the interfaces, so what you see on one platform is what you see on another. They prolly threw in higher-res textures on the PC version, but if they went beyond that it would surprise me (well,...if it were EA it would anyway).
 
ScreamingBroccoli said:
The thing is, this doesn't look like a console port... I could be wrong, the graphics look 10x better, and they probably did a lot more with the online stuff. I don't know if the maps or anything will be the same. Only time will tell.
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Yeah, it's a console port that's ten times more expensive than it needs to be. Fans will still hate it.
 
Obi_Kwiet said:
Ever taken a bullet? This is supposed to be realistic, not generic shooter #23,495.
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your character is wearing BODY ARMOR. In real life, it is possible to be hit and for it only to hurt really bad. You don't always die. one shot one kill is a bad idea.
 
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