Relevance of X850XTPE Crossfire?

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tranCendenZ

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Looking at the benchmarks, availability, and price of the 7800GTX, I have to ask, does anyone think the X850XTPE Crossfire is a viable product anymore, aside just for curiousity's sake? I mean, a 7800GTX beats a single 6800U SLI in most of the new games, and would cost $175 less than buying a Crossfire card and a Crossfire mobo, not to mention the fact if you go Crossfire as an upgrade route you can't sell your other X850XTPE which you could get $375+ on eBay for. On top of that the X850XTPE doesnt support the SM3.0 or FP16 HDR like the 7800GTX. And to seal the deal, the 7800GTX can also be SLI'd to really pull away from the x850xtpe crossfire. 7800GTX even has new AA modes like TMSAA/TSSAA for best AA quality. This is ignoring the fact that ATI's own R520 will be out soon that will likely also render the X850XTPE Crossfire irrelevant. Wouldn't it be smarter to drop X850XTPE Crossfire and focus on getting R520 Crossfire out faster instead?
 
There's probably more 7800 GTX's available at launch then there ever was of the x850 xt pe... Crossfire for the x800 / x850 line to me seems kind of irrelevent. Same deal with buying two 6800 gt's / 6800 ultras at the moment... might as well get the single 7800 gtx for less. Smartest thing to do is wait for R520 / R520 crossfire.
 
You know they have GeForce 6200 SLI right... yea, pointless. All I have to say is, stop paying attention to frame rates and wait as long as you can. You will end up saving a bag of money in that time, and you can buy dual whatever-you-wants, some more ram, and a cheap hooker.
 
Actually, it's good in that Ati now has a template for later designs.

Also, if an X800XL alone can keep up with Sli'd 7800GTX's then crossfired XTPE's might have a good shot at keeping up and being worth the money if you dont want 7800's. (why? fan boy ism, is only one idea, or perhaps supporting the underdog, or supporting canada, cause God knows they need it :p )

~Adam
 
I have to agree.Seems like the 7800 didn't really blow the x850 out of the water. Wasnt amazingly impressive for the price and I promise i dont take a bias viewpoint. I have been an ATI and Nvidia buyer before
 
CleanSlate said:
Also, if an X800XL alone can keep up with Sli'd 7800GTX's then crossfired XTPE's might have a good shot at keeping up and being worth the money if you dont want 7800's. (why? fan boy ism, is only one idea, or perhaps supporting the underdog, or supporting canada, cause God knows they need it :p )
Click to expand...

The only way an X800XL is going to keep up with an SLI 7800GTX, or a single 7800GTX for that matter, is if the game is CPU limited or the person who benchmarked the game made an error.
 
tranCendenZ said:
The only way an X800XL is going to keep up with an SLI 7800GTX, or a single 7800GTX for that matter, is if the game is CPU limited or the person who benchmarked the game made an error.
Click to expand...
According to the Hardocp preview and the guru3d.com review as well as the tomshardware guide review, I thought the numbers were surprisingly close.
 
 
I only looked at the first link you posted but i still dont see the huge difference. they compare sli 7800s to a single x850 and you only see like a 20% gain. Maybe im just missing something but just doesnt seem all that revolutionary for the next gen of card and the killer price tag
 
Krycek1 said:
I only looked at the first link you posted but i still dont see the huge difference. they compare sli 7800s to a single x850 and you only see like a 20% gain. Maybe im just missing something but just doesnt seem all that revolutionary for the next gen of card and the killer price tag
Click to expand...
Actually if you scroll down the page a little you will see that in the last benchmark the 7800's in sli are a 310.1% improvement over the x850.
 
tranCendenZ said:
The only way an X800XL is going to keep up with an SLI 7800GTX, or a single 7800GTX for that matter, is if the game is CPU limited or the person who benchmarked the game made an error.
Click to expand...

I was refering to the laughable chinese article.

~Adam
 
Krycek1 said:
I only looked at the first link you posted but i still dont see the huge difference. they compare sli 7800s to a single x850 and you only see like a 20% gain. Maybe im just missing something but just doesnt seem all that revolutionary for the next gen of card and the killer price tag
Click to expand...

Err even in the first link:

2048x1536 4xAA/16xAF (only res not CPU limited)
--
7800GTX SLI - 89fps
6800U SLI - 49.6fps
7800GTX - 45.6fps
X850XTPE - 28.7fps
6800U - 25.2fps
X800XL - 23.7fps

Way, way, way, way, way more than 20%. You have to scroll down to the resolutions that aren't CPU limited.
 
tranCendenZ said:
does anyone think the X850XTPE Crossfire is a viable product anymore
Click to expand...

no, but then it was never about developing "X850XTPE Crossfire" but a technology to counter nVidia on future dual/card setups, develop the drivers etc. kinda seems a bit weired to put it that way...
 
You can ask the same thing about 6800 SLI. Who in their right mind would by it now, when the 7800 is faster, or close to faster most of the time? But I guess you forgot to mention that. :eek:
 
bobsaget said:
I would rather go 7800's in SLi, but r520s in crossfire... damn.
Click to expand...

Since R520 benches or cards have never been seen by the general public, there is no way to know if the R520 sucks or not. Fact of the matter is, ATi doesn't have a solid release date on their Crossfire Edition cards, much less R520.

ATi is definatley falling down on the job these days.
 
tranCendenZ said:
Err even in the first link:

2048x1536 4xAA/16xAF (only res not CPU limited)
--
7800GTX SLI - 89fps
6800U SLI - 49.6fps
7800GTX - 45.6fps
X850XTPE - 28.7fps
6800U - 25.2fps
X800XL - 23.7fps

Way, way, way, way, way more than 20%. You have to scroll down to the resolutions that aren't CPU limited.
Click to expand...


yeah i saw that fps and just laughed.
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
ATi is definatley falling down on the job these days.
Click to expand...

I don't get that feeling, I think it's more of a surprise attack once the forces are ready :p
 
fallguy said:
You can ask the same thing about 6800 SLI. Who in their right mind would by it now, when the 7800 is faster, or close to faster most of the time? But I guess you forgot to mention that.
Click to expand...
That's what I was wondering too. :)
 
tranCendenZ said:
2048x1536 4xAA/16xAF (only res not CPU limited)

7800GTX SLI - 89fps
Click to expand...
That's an obvious error since it only scores 72.5 fps at a *lower* resolution (1600x1200 4xAA/16xAF).
 
fallguy said:
You can ask the same thing about 6800 SLI. Who in their right mind would by it now, when the 7800 is faster, or close to faster most of the time? But I guess you forgot to mention that. :eek:
Click to expand...

Yea I noticed that as well :)

I would have to say the the 8500 PE X-fire does not have value excpet for the better AA modes which should give you AA IQ a touch better then the new g70..... that is assuming the work as promised with only a small frame rate hit...
 
The crossfire solution will be for all the ATI users who do not want to buy two new cards. Knowing the "preliminary" results, it will give the 7800GTX SLI a run for its money. Nvidia should have a bunch of pissed off recent 6800GT/Ultra SLI buys who just saw all their money go to waste.

I have a 7800GTX on order now and will receive it Friday but will buy a crossfire/R520 when it comes out, whenever that may be.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
The crossfire solution will be for all the ATI users who do not want to buy two new cards. Knowing the "preliminary" results, it will give the 7800GTX SLI a run for its money. Nvidia should have a bunch of pissed off recent 6800GT/Ultra SLI buys who just saw all their money go to waste.

I have a 7800GTX on order now and will receive it Friday but will buy a crossfire/R520 when it comes out, whenever that may be.
Click to expand...

The kind of people that drop $1000 on an SLi setup don't get pissed off when something new comes out...they just buy that too...

I would think a lot more people would be pissed off that their x800 card can't play with the highest image quality in games only a couple months after they bought the card...
 
fallguy said:
You can ask the same thing about 6800 SLI. Who in their right mind would by it now, when the 7800 is faster, or close to faster most of the time? But I guess you forgot to mention that. :eek:
Click to expand...

That is a good point. Just yesterday, the OP made this thread:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=917671

Reading the threads some posters create reminds me of politics. They spin every piece of hardware news with a slant that puts their favorite company or point of view in a positive light.

It's like the press secretary of the President of the US. Always spin every piece of news.

Explain again how the 7800 GTX makes the crossfire setup irrelevant while simultaneously showing what a wise choice SLI buyers made? :p
 
Jonsey said:
That is a good point. Just yesterday, the OP made this thread:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=917671

Reading the threads some posters create reminds me of politics. They spin every piece of hardware news with a slant that puts their favorite company or point of view in a positive light.

It's like the press secretary of the President of the US. Always spin every piece of news.

Explain again how the 7800 GTX makes the crossfire setup irrelevant while simultaneously showing what a wise choice SLI buyers made? :p
Click to expand...

The difference is, SLI has been available for 6 months...so for 6 months those people that shelled out the cash got the highest performance possible...

Crossfire on the other hand hasn't even been released yet...and when it does get released it won't be capable of rendering the highest image quality possible...

I think x800 CrossFire as an uber-high-end solution was irrelevant the day it was announced simply because it still doesn't have the featureset necessary to get the highest image quality available...R520 will no doubt make CrossFire much more sensible though...
 
nV-7800 numbers are very impressive at higher resolutions, but there a too many parts to replace in order to take advantage of it (for a new system build anyway, lets not forget that you need to add the cost of a display thats capable of supporting the higher resolution (if you don't already have one, its going to be very expensive) in addition to the 2 cards and the board). If you are building a new system the cost could easily top 5-7 grand. If you don't have a capable display, all that extra power is wasted because the performance is not that different at the resolutions you'll be able to use. The same will apply to the R520 when (or if) they ever become available. Is an X850XT Crossfire setup irrevelent, not to those who don't want to upgrade every part in thier system to get maximum performance, just as 6800's in SLI isn't irrevelent to those that want to get the most performance out of the hardware they can afford. I think there are plenty of us that fit that category.
 
ncantador said:
nV-7800 numbers are very impressive at higher resolutions, but there a too many parts to replace in order to take advantage of it (for a new system build anyway, lets not forget that you need to add the cost of a display thats capable of supporting the higher resolution (if you don't already have one, its going to be very expensive) in addition to the 2 cards and the board). If you are building a new system the cost could easily top 5-7 grand. If you don't have a capable display, all that extra power is wasted because the performance is not that different at the resolutions you'll be able to use. The same will apply to the R520 when (or if) they ever become available. Is an X850XT Crossfire setup irrevelent, not to those who don't want to upgrade every part in thier system to get maximum performance, just as 6800's in SLI isn't irrevelent to those that want to get the most performance out of the hardware they can afford. I think there are plenty of us that fit that category.
Click to expand...

huh?

CrossFire still requires a new motherboard...and likely a new power supply...and the cards aren't much cheaper than the 7800GTX...not to mention you need a master card which are sure to get price gouged...
 
People who aren't impressed by the 7800 GTX simply don't realise that the card's full potential isn't being displayed @ 1280x1024 or even 1600x1200. But what does that mean? For all practical purposes it's not a necessary upgrade especially for those who can only game at 1280x1024 or something. Personally Anything further than 1600x1200 is just *i dont care*. But it really shows that the card definitely has power and is impressive. It's for future games... at the moment just sit tight with what you got.
 
Personally, the words SLI and "sensibility" in the same sentance seems like an oxymoron.

Of course, that's a personal opinion.

I think the most positive thing the 7800 GTX launch has done for the consumer is launch day availability. Nvidia has really put the pressure on ATI to not launch with retail availability to come a few months later.

Hopefully the launch shenanigans are done with now, and we have nvidia to thank for that.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
The kind of people that drop $1000 on an SLi setup don't get pissed off when something new comes out...they just buy that too...
Click to expand...
These aren't the same people running 1280x1024 on all games ?


^eMpTy^ said:
I would think a lot more people would be pissed off that their x800 card can't play with the highest image quality in games only a couple months after they bought the card...
Click to expand...
Hense why my 7800GTX is coming this Friday! Sad part is I will buy a Crossfire/R520 the day (or year) it is available.

btw: your statement could be said for both the X800 and NV40.
 
^eMpTy^ said:
huh?

CrossFire still requires a new motherboard...and likely a new power supply...and the cards aren't much cheaper than the 7800GTX...not to mention you need a master card which are sure to get price gouged...
Click to expand...

1-When did I say it didn't?

2- I've seen x850xt's as low as 399 after rebate theres a 400.00 difference there if you compare with a pair 7800's, not much to you, but its alot to me. Especially when I add in the price of a board, cpu, and a display (mine can 'only' go 1600x1200 @ 75). If the benefit starts to show at higher resolutions, how does that help me?

3-nV raised the bar by making sure that their boards would be available, on the shelves, at retail before launch. If ATI can manage to do the same, there shouldn't be any price gouging. Mwave.com tried to gouge the 7800, offering it @649.00 a day before launch, and they had to back down. If ATI can't do the same they're gonna have some serious problems.
 
tranCendenZ said:
Err even in the first link:

2048x1536 4xAA/16xAF (only res not CPU limited)
--
7800GTX SLI - 89fps
6800U SLI - 49.6fps
7800GTX - 45.6fps
X850XTPE - 28.7fps
6800U - 25.2fps
X800XL - 23.7fps

Way, way, way, way, way more than 20%. You have to scroll down to the resolutions that aren't CPU limited.
Click to expand...


What I really don't understand is how at 1600x1200 the card is actually slower in SLI than it is at 2048x1536. Logic tells me that the higher resolution doesn't give you a 20% performance increase. Or maybe i'm on crack? 89FPS at 2048x1536 vs 72FPS at 1600x1200 doesn't seem right.

Am I missing something?

I do believe you're right tranc, there is no place in the market for the x850 crossfire edition. It would be a total waste of time and money for ATI to release it. Hopefully they'll release that R520. I like the 7800GTX a little, but for me i t's just a waste of money to upgrade from my x800.
 
R1ckCa1n said:
The crossfire solution will be for all the ATI users who do not want to buy two new cards. Knowing the "preliminary" results, it will give the 7800GTX SLI a run for its money. Nvidia should have a bunch of pissed off recent 6800GT/Ultra SLI buys who just saw all their money go to waste.

I have a 7800GTX on order now and will receive it Friday but will buy a crossfire/R520 when it comes out, whenever that may be.
Click to expand...
A run for it's money? The closest score well 3dmark wise is 15500 with Macci's phase change running the X850XT at 900+ mhz, while Sampsa on xtremesystems.org got past Macci's record with 2 7800GTX sli'd with stock cooling on them.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
People who aren't impressed by the 7800 GTX simply don't realise that the card's full potential isn't being displayed @ 1280x1024 or even 1600x1200. But what does that mean? For all practical purposes it's not a necessary upgrade especially for those who can only game at 1280x1024 or something. Personally Anything further than 1600x1200 is just *i dont care*. But it really shows that the card definitely has power and is impressive. It's for future games... at the moment just sit tight with what you got.
Click to expand...

Bingo, but some people that are blown away by it may not realize it either. I'm personally not aware of any LCD's that offer 2048x1536, and its hard to find a good CRT that supports it unless you're ready to drop an additional $700-800 for a refurb.

Personally I think nV put out killer piece of equipment, problem is most of us aren't ready for it. Its my guess that at least 80% (maybe higher) of the people buying these today, wont realize that they cant take full advantage of it. It's like having the engine of a ferrari and hooking it up to a honda exhaust.
.
 
Jonsey said:
the words SLI and "sensibility" in the same sentance seems like an oxymoron.
Click to expand...

Sigged. And QFT. SLI is for people who want to waste money for IQ's sake.

~Adam
 
ncantador said:
Bingo, but some people that are blown away by it may not realize it either. I'm personally not aware of any LCD's that offer 2048x1536, and its hard to find a good CRT that supports it unless you're ready to drop an additional $700-800 for a refurb.

Personally I think nV put out killer piece of equipment, problem is most of us aren't ready for it. Its my guess that at least 80% (maybe higher) of the people buying these today, wont realize that they cant take full advantage of it. It's like having the engine of a ferrari and hooking it up to a honda exhaust.
.
Click to expand...


I want that card just so that I can finally play NFSU2 at 1600 x 1200 on my LCD with ALL THE EYECANDY :D

ps.: then again, I have a measily 6800nu (16x6)
 
fallguy said:
You can ask the same thing about 6800 SLI. Who in their right mind would by it now, when the 7800 is faster, or close to faster most of the time? But I guess you forgot to mention that. :eek:
Click to expand...

I would agree, except Nvidia isn't concentrating more resources towards it at the moment, whereas ATI is devoting significant resources to getting crossfire up and running...
 
R1ckCa1n said:
The crossfire solution will be for all the ATI users who do not want to buy two new cards. Knowing the "preliminary" results, it will give the 7800GTX SLI a run for its money. Nvidia should have a bunch of pissed off recent 6800GT/Ultra SLI buys who just saw all their money go to waste.

I have a 7800GTX on order now and will receive it Friday but will buy a crossfire/R520 when it comes out, whenever that may be.
Click to expand...

Pissed off about SLI? More like happy. 6800GT/U SLI owners were experiencing next gen framerates 6 months ago. Now they can experience next-gen again, for $1200 :)

The x850xtpe crossfire will be killed by 7800GTX SLI. The only game it will even come close in is HL2, which is CPU limited anyway. And the tech is old. You can't play HL2: Lost Coast, Splinter Cell: CT, FarCry, or AoE3 at highest detail.
 
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