replaced heatsink, now artifacting on 9800 pro

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Gawd
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Mar 15, 2002
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Well, my Hercules Radeon 9800 Pro that I bought 15 months ago (November 2003), the fan finally was dieing on the heatsink unit. So I replaced the fan and heatsink with a new cooler from thermalright (or thermaltake). I have a SFF so I had to go with the smallest heatsink possible, and the larger 9800 Pro coolers wouldn't have fitted. This cooler is actually supposed to be a chipset cooler, however the reviews mentioned uses on GPUs, and it fits onto my GPU quite nicely. The problem is that now I artifact in all games, and get bands of red on the screen (right now I have them). I tried remounting and I'm having the same problem. I'm assuming that the artifacting is due to too much heat, but I'm pretty sure that this is the only heatsink that will fit in my case. My question is, does anyone know if my problem could be fixed some other way, perhaps a nice GPU cooler for a 9800 pro, or should I bite the bullet, drop the 200 to upgrade to a 6600 GT?

Thanks for the help again!
 
HSF not making contact with the core, u need to re-sit it all over again :p Then again, ur new HSF may not be sufficient to dissipate 9800pro's heat in SFF I dunno really :rolleyes:

I am sure u applied some thermal compound and cleaned out the old stuff each time u changed HSF (doesn't hurt to ask :D )
 
Well ur card might be dead... after all u played around with it while changing HSF and might have discharged some static electricity into it - memory chips are esp. susceptible. It's unlikely but it is possible.
 
Uhm, are you sure that thing is enough? It doesn't look so great to me... I skimmed the reviews (didn't look long I admit) and I didn't see any mention of any video card with higher requirements than the Geforce 4 Ti4200. Not a good sign IMO.

Mind you, the card may be damaged like he says. I note that you say the artifacts are currently only occuring in games? I'm wondering kind of if it could be a possibility it's not quite damaged yet. Short of getting a better hsf, I don't know how you could find out for certain though, and if you buy a new hsf for it and it's damaged, then you'll just have to find some other use for that hsf because it won't fit on a 6600GT most likely, and may not be better than what comes on one if it did.

IMO, the IceBerq 4 is the best HSF out there for that generation of video cards. Admitedly I used one on a Radeon 9600 Pro, not 9800, and the 9600 wasn't exactly known for it's heat production, but, I did get much better results once I upgraded to it, and I was simply impressed. I guess it's not pure copper, but, it's a high copper alloy. Not plated, not painted, actual copper, as in you can take it to a benchgrinder (9600 Pro users kind of almost needed to do this due to the core being so close to the AGP slot on those cards) you will not see aluminum in there. What's most impressive though is the fact that the bottom of it is so smooth and flat you can see your undistorted copper colored reflection in it...


BTW, you didn't put too much thermal compound did you? That can actually decrease effectiveness if there is too much. This may sound really basic to you, I don't know, sorry if it does.
 
Did you video card have a shim? I know that my old 9700Pro did, and when I replaced the stock fan I had the same problem. What happened to me was that I didn't have enough thermal paste; the shim was actually preventing my new fan from making contact, so I got artifacts. As counter-intuitive as it may be, if you have a shim you might want to put MORE thermal compound on it than you normally would, or just remove the shim with a razor, while being careful not to damage the chip itself.
 
Jerunk said:
I dont think that would cool it sufficiently.
Click to expand...

If he's going for a serious OC, then just using extra thermal grease won't cool it and let him reach high speeds. If he's running stock, then it'll probably be enough...the amount of thermal compound that ati sticks on the chips is ridiculous, and the standard amount of AS5 that you're supposed to apply is remarkably less. If he adds as much AS5 as ati had thermal compound, then chances are that his card will work. This, of couse, assumes that he has a shim around the GPU, and he's getting bad contact.

The other option, if you have a shim, is to make some groves on the heatsink so that it will sit properly, and rest on top of the GPU.
 
What kind of thermal transfer material are you using between the hsf and the gpu? I once used a thermal pad that just didnt cut it, had to replace with silver paste and it cleared the problem up.

-Tryqus
 
Nazo said:
Uhm, are you sure that thing is enough? It doesn't look so great to me... I skimmed the reviews (didn't look long I admit) and I didn't see any mention of any video card with higher requirements than the Geforce 4 Ti4200. Not a good sign IMO.
Click to expand...
This HSF looks just like the one I ripped off a Geforce 4 MX 440 and replaced with a Zalman passive cooler.

Even the heatsink on a Matrox G550 would probably cool better than such a pathetic HSF.
 
Elledan said:
This HSF looks just like the one I ripped off a Geforce 4 MX 440 and replaced with a Zalman passive cooler.

Even the heatsink on a Matrox G550 would probably cool better than such a pathetic HSF.
Click to expand...

I agree. The stock cooler when I had a 9800 pro would be scalding to the touch after only a 20 mhz overclock (the core that is and no artifacting either), so a cooler that looks significantly smaller, thinner and weaker would probably not be sufficient. Especially with a small shuttle-type case. :(
 
There is a shim on the 9800 pro and unless you removed it then you wont be getting good cantact with the GPU at all. I would seriously think about replacing that with a more speciallized cooler or trying to find a stock 9800pro or XT cooler in the FS/FT forums. Plenty of people have modded their cooling and some should be willing to part with their stock stuff. Hell I'd give you mine if I knew where it was.
 
Uhm, if all this is true, you may be damaging your video card as we speak... Have a backup? It may even be too late, but, if I were you, I'd be careful.
 
that is a VERY sissy heatsink for a 9800 pro :O .. like the guy above said.. get that thing outta the comp before you damage it anymore.. Get a bigg heatsink ;)
 
Ouch I didn't realize that you were using such a pathetic cooler. That thing isn't enough to keep your gpu cool, not be a mile. Personally I would suggest a VGA silencer. They are cheap, quiet, and they cool well better then your old stock hsf did. Its instalation is pretty easy and it sends the heat out the back of your sytem. Thats called lowering system temp bud, most hsf just circle the same air around.

Reviews:

http://www.ocfaq.com/reviews/ArcticCooling/VGASilencer_Rev3/

http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews/vgasilencer/

Price at Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-186-110&depa=1

As you can no doubt see its a great cooler. Many would suggest a smaller cooler but personally I love the silence that the silencer delivers. Look up a few more reviews on your own if you like, personally I never base my purchase on one opinoion alone.

-Tryqus
 
Well, I figured this would be enough since the stock heatsink was even smaller than this thing. Anyhow, no worries, since I have a shuttle I couldn't use one of those bigger options, and my dad agreed to pay for part of a new card, so I figured what the hell, might as well snag one of those new MSI 6600GTs... :D

BTW, I'm still using the card, I get streaks of things tinted red, but its tolerable till I get the new card. Think if I put one of those big ones on this thing when I go home I could give it to my bro in his reg size case?
 
You could obviously try to put a better cooler on it for your brother's comp, but there is probably a fair chance that the card is hosed. So if you dont mind spending $30 on a maybe then give it a try.
 
hey guys; I have the same problem, but I'm using an IceBerq 4... which from what I can tell is supposed to cool BETTER than the stock fan.
When I replaced the stock fan with the iceberq I got -loads- of artifacts 10-20 seconds after i started playing games. The artifacts are really wierd... almost like vertices are getting stuck to the horizon... anyways its -really wierd-.
I put thermal grease on it... It was enough, as its the same amount I used on the stock heatsink (yes i took it off once).
It baffles me how the new heatsink broke it?
Suggestions?
Thanks
 
Wow, this thread was and old one I'd forgotten.

Yes, the IceBerq 4 is a much much better heatsink. In fact, I was horribly impressed when I got one for my old 9600 Pro and took a look at it to find that the bottom has the smoothest mirror finish I have ever in my entire life seen on a heatsink. Plus it's actually made of copper to the point that you will find it's color considerably darker a few years later. ^_^ Don't know how much effect that has on it's effectiveness as I don't have a R9600 anymore.

Anyway, first and foremost I'm inclined to suspect the possibility that your core has been damaged. Make sure you smoothed the heatsink compound really well and all and that you don't have too much (yes there is such a thing.) The idea is to just get an ultra tiny little film above the chip itself and get the rest inside those little pits (normally more worried about the pits on the heatsink, but, there aren't any on that one big enough for thermal paste to get into I suspect.) One thing to try is underclocking the heck out of that chip and the memory first just to see if the artifacts go away. Maybe cut it down to 80% of stock or so, just for testing. If the artifacts are still there, something's horribly wrong, and it may be permanent damage.
 
Check for thermal paste where it shouldnt be. Had the same thing happen to me recently. Some alcohol, qtips and a very sharp knife fixed the problem.
 
Thanks for the info; I'm going to try:
- removing other components to see if the PSU is overloaded (shouldnt be, as the HSF is using the same wattage)
- underclocking
- turning off a few settings on the vidcard to remove some of the stress on the GPU
- resetting GPU, checking for evil paste in places it shouldn't be (last resort, I'm sure it was put on properly, and I hate playing with things that squash very expensive cores ;)

I'll post my results here in a few hours once I get home and try these out.
 
Ok, good luck on that. Be careful with alcohol btw. Even shut off and unplugged there's still a bit of live power sometimes thanks in part to the ungodly number of capacitors on even the cheapest cards these days. EDIT: BTW, most alcohol isn't very conductive, but, a few are, so that may not be a problem. I'd still be careful just in case though...

Don't forget the memory. I managed to screw up the memory on my own card and get similar effects. No amount of underclocking the GPU makes them go away, but, running the memory at stock gets my artifacts down to one an hour or so, which I can kind of live with.
 
Yikes, I'm just saying be careful. Lol, $5 got me a roughly 1 liter can of denatured (methylated ethanol) alcohol. I have some isopropyl which didn't even register on my cheap multireader, and the methylated ethanol I have (denatured is a general term, so actual composition can vary) undiluted was only just under 2M ohms for two probes less than a millimeter apart.

Mind you, that stuff is probably a lot easier since it's specifically designed for it, but, well, some of us are cheapskates. ^_^
 
haha yeah i figured isopropyl wasnt very conductive ;D
that's what I used last time.. didnt leave any residue or make any smoke.
... and I too am a cheapskate
I really... really dont want to ship my card for RMA, let alone buy a new one.
 
I didn't read all the posts just sort of skimmed through. But I used to have an iceberg4 and ramsinks on my 9800pro and was able to get it up to 420/370 stable and artifact free. This wasn't in a sff of course. I would reccomend an iceberg4 pretty cheap and should do the job nicely.
 
... woah

i mean... woah


(i love suspense ;D )

So I removed the capture card in the PCI slot beside the 9800... no artifacts, stability seems a-ok so far.
So maybe it -was- a voltage problem? I'll try a few other things to see, but so far that seems the most likely... Unfortunately thats my only PCI slot... seeing as I'm using an SFF :(
hmm
 
so apparently if i plug in a fan its too much for the psu -_-
what th hell?
Edit: upping the AGP voltage does nothing. argh
 
Ok so it -was- working. but now im getting glitches again... what the hell? its not like the power supply changed, or morphed into something different.
blagh!
 
beeng said:
Ok so it -was- working. but now im getting glitches again... what the hell? its not like the power supply changed, or morphed into something different.
blagh!
Click to expand...


Did you take a good hard look at the core? the fact that it started artifacting right after you replaced the heatsink would make me believe you scratched the core. Put it under a light, move it around to get some different reflections, and look for a scratch(s).
 
so I've tried underclocking... no luck there. infact it seemed to make the artifacting WORSE.. hmmm

Yes it's still under the one year warranty... but I think by placing non-stock heatsinks on the card voids it :/ ... not that ATI needs to know this though...

I havn't looked at the core yet, if you'll look at one of my previous posts: removing the heatsinks and doing a full inspection etc. is my last test. blegh
 
More results:
Reduced AGP speed to 4x : no change
Disable Fast Write: no change
Reduced D3D/OGL settings to 'performance': artifacts get worse
Reduce DVI freq/alternate DVI: no change
Reduce shadows/turn off shadows (someone on another forum said this worked for them): no change
Smashing video card with sledge hammer: blank screen.

Summary: argh.
 
beeng said:
Edit: upping the AGP voltage does nothing. argh
Click to expand...


CRAP! Turn that back down! That can cause damage to cards and/or agp slots... I don't remember the exact details of what it was supposed to help, but, it's supposed to be pretty rare indeed that you should use that.

After doing that, if the artifacts go away, all is well and good. It may have caused damage though, I'm not sure. One thing you might try is putting that card in another computer just to see what happens. Probably won't make a difference, but, if it does it may help narrow the problem.

Anyway, you mentioned the PSU having troubles with just a fan. It may be needing more power. What IS your PSU anyway?
 
hey; yeah, already way ahead of you. I put the card into the 'servinator'... my dual proc. server box... with OODLES of power to spare.
anyways, the card still had artifact problems... so i tried underclocking it by 10mhz, and there wasn't any more problem (with the ati-tool render test). So I dont think it's a power problem, because if it WAS then that would mean the card is drawing somewheres around 200watts ;)

Upping the voltage didn't seem to have any ill affects... I only upped it by .2 volts.

... on a side note: my computer just froze and rebooted itself... woohoo! argh

The PSU is a weak 105watt shuttle 'silent' PSU. silent indeed, but power it needs.
 
aaaaaaaand it crashed again.
I think it smells the scent of the other computer... the card is now tainted.
 
Sounds like it's damaged. Try underclocking further. Now your goal is no longer to get it fast, it's to get it stable. Do a lot more than 10, try more like 30. And remember, both the core and the memory.

And keep AGP voltage at the standard. 1.5 I believe it was. Raising it will not help, and just because 0.2 sounds like a small amount doesn't mean it is (for example, try raising your processor core by that and see how hot it gets if it's stable at all.) Short term it may have no effect, but, I should point out that short term neither did flashing my video card's bios with that other one that let me raise the GPU's voltage to 1.3 and overclock the living daylights out of it. Now I get rare artifacts when my memory is at stock clocks.

BTW, that PSU definitly needs to be replaced. Even if it's not your current problem, it's definitely a problem. Most recommend 350W just to get by. (Mind you, it's more a question of the quality of the supply than the raw maximum ever seen under amazingly perfect conditions number that they stamp in three or four places on the box.)
 
stupid computer.
sure, it works in the servinator...b ut nooooo, it wont work in my normal computer.
WHAT THE HELL! ... i can no longer keep a stable system. it boots, goes fine, then as soon as i open the start menu, or try to browse with explorer... it freezes and reboots.

garbage.
im getting tired of this
 
Wait, you said it did work in your so called "servinator"? I thought you said it still had artifacts?

Sorry, I wasn't past my edit cycles there. Lol, got some extra for you to read since your reply. Simply put, check that PSU, and you really need to put that AGP voltage back to standard irregardless of if it seemed harmless to raise it. You're supposed to be using more in the area of a 350W PSU these days or at least a darned good 300W.

EDIT: BTW, in the pictures I see of the reference 9800 Pro, it has what I believe is a molex connector on the end. You did remember to plug one of the power cords into that? Not that it will help much if your PSU can't keep up, but, the card probably needs it to help keep stable voltages. Don't know if you have a choice or not with the Radeons. Mine won't even let me turn on the system and makes a horrible noise if I don't plug it up.
 
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