Results of Keyboard Buying/Returning Binge

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ballpoint

Gawd
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
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Well my bluetooth Logitech diNovo keyboard started to become a bit of a pain with the constant dropping of connections, always sliding around, etc. so I started thinking about a new keyboard.

Picked up a Logitech G510 for the LCD display and because I've been really impressed with the two diNovo keyboards I used. Unfortunately I didn't stop to think that the diNovo were scissor switch keys (very small travel, resists until you push hard enough so it's almost impossible to miss a keystroke). The rubber dome keys on the G510 have a HUGE travel distance and the keypress is not registered until the very end of the press. I missed keys in my first few test sentences typed. Playing a few games with it over the weekend proved the LCD to be a fairly useless gimmick. The BFBC2 app is kind of weird, the only thing I found interesting was the progress to next unlock display, and by interesting I mean distracting as in I kept getting killed while looking at it. And my computer froze/became unresponsive twice with it plugged in, which has never happened otherwise. What's more, the whole thing is very light in construction and the feet pads provide almost no contact/friction with the desk surface so the keyboard slides around as you use it. So the G510 went back.

I picked up a Razer BlackWidow thanks to the ingenious little window on the packaging that lets you fiddle with the arrow keys. The feel of the keys was exactly what I had been missing. Starting with the cherry blue switches, I found a lot to like with this keyboard. Well made, responsive, and some great driver software. And the build quality is really nice, it's very solid, nice fit and finish overall. And it stays put on the desk, wherever you put it that's where it'll stay, an important feature to me. Unfortunately, two problems really turned me off: I like to slap down on the CTRL key, confidently of its position as the bottom left key on the board. Unfortunately the Black Widow has the M5 macro key in the bottom left position, as the 5 macro keys run vertically down the left edge of the board. I found myself constantly thinking I was hitting CTRL-Z when I was actually hitting M5-CTRL. I tried mapping M5 to CTRL to fix it but it didn't help and was seriously slowing me down while doing 3DS MAX as well as writing web code. And finally the F keys are all shifted over by one key for some stupid reason. So F1 is between 2-3 instead of between 1-2. This small deviation really threw me off in BFBC2 and the like. So the Black Widow went back.

I ordered a Das Keyboard Professional Model S. This is the keyboard for me. Bog-standard layout, no dumb features. No drivers necessary. Utterly pristine fit and finish. And it has 2 USB 2.0 ports at the front-right of the keyboard, very useful. I LOVE this keyboard!

But I had a couple conference calls where I was typing mad notes and the key noise was a bit of a problem (I was having a hard time hearing people over my typing at certain times as people on conference can be quiet through no fault of their own). I could just keep the diNovo hooked up and type with that during calls, but I do have a secondary gaming system that could use its own kick-ass mechanical board so I decided to find something with cherry blacks for typing during calls (meaning the cherry blue board will become the back-up board). I bought the Steelseries 6GV2, and have to say I'm quite pleased with it. I cannot fault it in any way. I like the heaviness of the keys. I will be returning it though, simply because I want to have two identical keyboards on my desktop. So I'll be buying another Das Keyboard, this one the Silent model. I'm still debating whether to get blank keys or not. I think I'll go with blank keys for this second Das.

So anyhow, the final result/verdict: Go with Das Keyboard if you want a really well built mechanical keyboard for all-around productivity+gaming systems and don't need any bullshit LCDs, macros, etc.
 
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Oh, and the one thing about Steelseries that really made me decide to return it and just go with two variations of the Das... the Steelseries has a giant Enter key which displaces the pipe and backslash, and the left Windows key is replaced with a function key. I have no idea what the point of a giant Enter key is... does it really need to be the size of 3 keys? I really want a consistent bog-standard layout across all keyboards. Oh and from an aesthetic standpoint the Das looks really good on the desk while the Steelseries looks (ironically?) kinda plasticky and industrial.
 
lol, some people actually prefer the giant enter key (L-shaped) :eek: I've had a strange request once to look for a KB with the L shaped enter o.0
 
Kinda funny, because I'd been doing the same thing for the last couple weeks. Just started one day when I looked down at my Saitek Eclipse II and thought, "I'm getting sick of looking at this same keyboard for the last 6 years". Nothing wrong with it. just wanted a change.

First I replaced it with a Logitech G110, but it seemed to be defective, was some odd friction typing on some keys, like the spacebar and tab keys. I returned it to NewEgg, but the changed me a restocking fee even though I told them it was defective. To add insult to injury, I paid $60 for it on sale, normally $80. But the charged me the 15% restocking fee against the full price, not the sale price I paid. So I really ended up paying a 20% restocking fee for a defective keyboard ($13 restocking for on $60 purchase). I emailed NewEgg to dispute the restocking fee, but they ignored me, so I gotta call them I guess.

Also a bit annoying about the return shipping label I purchased from them. It was a 4 pound box, yet the label said 6 pounds. I thought the $11 price seemed high, unfortunately I didn't catch that until after the purchase, so my fault. I should have gone to the UPS store, would have cost half as much. Oh well.

NewEgg rant over.

After returning the G110, I got a Razer Lycosa Mirror from Fry's Electronics (going to avoid NewEgg for a while). It seemed nice to type on in the store. But after getting home and using it a couple days, I don't think that low profile scissor keys is really what I want for a desktop keyboard.

So I exchanged it for another G110. Figured I'd give Logitech another chance, surely I won't key another defect. This second one (from Fry's this time) was good and I liked it. But at this point I'd been spending so much time on keyboard forums reading stuff, that I'd been thinking about a mechanical keyboard.

I found a mechanical Dell AT101W from work with Black Alps switches. I'd been many many years since I'd used a mechanical keyboard, kinda forgot how they felt. Liked the Dell, but it was too big, ugly, and beige for me to put on my desk.

I wanted a keyboard with Cherry brown switches, sounded like it has the traits I was most wanting. Nice to type on, tactile, not too loud, decide for gaming too. But I had to have something with a wrist rest too, so I had to compromise on a Thermaltake Meka G1 with black switches.

The Meka G1 is okay. I do like typing on this more than the Logitech G110. But these black switches are more stiff than I care for. Also the audio ports on this are absolutely worthless garbage, but I really didn't buy the keyboard for them anyway and don't really need that feature.

I'm on the fence about keeping this Meka G1. I'll give it a couple weeks. But in the meantime I'm going to buy a Filco Majestictouch 2 Tenkeyless with browns. If I decide to keep the Meka, then I may use the Filco at work (got a locked office, so it won't get stolen).
 
I went the opposite way from a Black Widow to the Logitech G510. I loved the Black Widow but kept having firmware issues like some keys not working in IE9 but would work in Chrome or the A and D keys sticking in game.

I agree the LCD screen is gimmicky and not really worth much other than "oh that looks cool" for when your relatives and friends that dont know any better come over to visit. Itll make you look more hardcore.

I use the Core Temp applet and it actually comes in handy in game so I can keep an eye on my CPU temp. It also works with the Fraps applet which is kinda cool cause its kinda nice to keep the Fraps read out off your game screen.

But yeah, its definitely not something you should buy it for.

As for the feel, I really like it. Its not as satisfying as the mechanical keys of the Black Widow but they feel snug and firm and I like typing on it. It is hard to get used to cause the keys are smaller than usual so they can fit them all on there since the 500 macro keys are taking up all the room. I do have a game or two where I do use macros for pulling up certain weapons or inventory items and such but I cant for the life of me think of an occasion when Id want 18 freaking keys!

Theres other pros and cons but overall I really like the G510 better than any keyboard Ive tried so far. I liked the feel of the Black Widow more but dont trust it with all the issues.
 
I've ordered a second Das Keyboard, this one the Ultimate (blank keys) Silent version. Much as I like these cherry blues, my thumb is starting to hurt from using this keyboard. I'm wondering if I shouldn't have stuck with scissor switches. Maybe my thumb will grow a callous or something because it's skin pain on the edge of my right thumbnail from my thumb rubbing on space bar. I bet in a week or two it strops bothering me. Something about the way I hit space. Anyways. I'm hoping the cherry browns are just a bit more comfortable. I'll be happy with the blue switches on the back-up dev/gaming system so long as I'm not constantly typing on it.

Another thing I'm going to do is build a small platform for my computing chair... raised about 3 inches so that I can sit more ergonomically. That might help as I think part of the problem is the angle my thumb is coming down at... my elbows are too low. I've wanted to do this for a while. Both my screens are lifted well off the desk surface so it will help with viewability as well.
 
I had the Saitek PZ30AU. I hated the spacebar on it, and it only lasted me a little over 2 years. It started outputting the wrong characters, so it became unusable. It was ugly, and paint started coming off the keys. I bought the LITE-ON SK-1788, and it lasted a year. I broke the spacebar cleaning it. I then bought another LITE-ON SK-1788 along with a LITE-ON SK-1688. The keys on the new LITE-ON SK-1788 felt really cheap and worse than my old one! I just couldn’t use it. I'm still using the LITE-ON SK-1688 right now at 8 months. I've wanted to try Das Keyboard for a while.
 
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^ Maybe give LITE-ON a rest, given the track record so far?

I'm now eyeballing the Logitech Wireless Illuminated Keyboard as a wireless back-up... although the bluetooth diNovo still works perfectly so I might be into the overkill zone on keyboards. I love me a scissor switch flatboard though.
 
I like this post because I would like to try a mechanical keyboard, I really like the very specific picky nature of the OP. Getting down to the details you might miss in a picture of the product.

Right now my favorite keyboard is the logitech K300 and I would love a quiet mechanical with the same layout but the only one I seem to have found is the raptor K1 which I can only find in england (USA here). And it has a stupid enter key.
 
Today I got a little better at not bottoming out when I type on the Das. You just have to get your hands into proper typing position.

After a week using the Steelseries on the back-up system, and finally deciding it will indeed go back in favour of another Das, these are my complaints:

1. It's hard to touch-type because the little bumps on J and F are really hard to feel. I find myself having to look down if I really want to confirm my fingers are on the home row. Once your fingers are in position, great, but it's not like every other keyboard I've ever used where I can get my fingers on the home row without even thinking about it. Every time I go to quickly use the back-up system I have to pause now and make sure I'm on home row.
2. The black switches are just a bit too resistive for my taste... I could not imagine typing for very long on this thing at all. Though I can see how it would be sweet for games with the linear action

One good thing I'll say about the SteelSeries is the key printing is huge. Not that I look at the keyboard much... I am waiting for a blank keyboard to ship, after all. But if you're going to mark the keys you might as well make it legible. That was another problem with the blackwidow... it uses a really dumb looking and small font on the keys.
 
Wow I don't know how I missed this. I was just using the Steelseries for something... the right shift key is tiny. I guess it's because I pretty much only use the left shift key. But I was trying to do something one-handed on the right side of the board... I have average sized hands and am not friggin Liberace over here. I now officially think the Steelseries is a dumb piece of crap, instead of just quirky. Next thing I'll notice the spacebar adds the word "TWAT" into your document!
 
so the steelseries is a dumb piece of crap because it has a function key where the windows key should be (most people prefer to turn off the windows key anyway given the choice) a small right shift key, which you yourself admitted is rarely ever a problem, and a large L shaped enter key? did i get all of it? honestly i cant imagine how your family must feel trying to buy presents for you on holidays. sorry mom this new shirt is a dumb piece of crap because they put the stripe in the middle instead of at the bottom.

honestly i commend your effort to find the right product for your needs, but labeling a perfectly good working product a dumb piece of crap because it doesnt fit your idea of a "bog standard layout," which by the way doesnt exist, is a little ridiculous. hell, L shaped enter keys have been around for like 30 years and the right shift on a steelseries 6gv2 is only slightly smaller than the left shift.

the funny thing is that the das keyboard has probably more haters than the steelseries simply because of the gloss finish which attracts fingerprints like crazy.

anyway good luck with your das and maybe tone down the drama in future reviews.
 
^ Keyboard layout is a big deal. If it's got a short shift or backspace key, then GTFO with it. I have short fingers and can't take it.
 
Ya, what else is there to a keyboard besides layout, especially for mechanicals where most of them are made with cherry switches and standard key caps? Layout is probably the single largest factor. Also anyone looking for a mechanical probably wants it because they want a fast productive environment for heavy duty computer use and the right layout is really important for that.
 
Geez man, sorry are you related to a 6Gv2 or something?

I use my computers a lot. Really, a LOT. Small irritations are magnified at that level of use. You missed a couple things I said. One thing I forgot to mention is I hate function keys taking the place of any key. Just add a damn function key. The diNovo had it in the logical spot.. betwen ESC and F1 where every "bog standard" keyboard has some extra space anyhow.

Okay, there's no bog standard layout. But I need the layout I'm used to. I used that same layout for almost five years on my two diNovos and the MS Wired on the backup-backup system. The Das has the layout I'm used to. When your layouts are consistent it's much easier to touch type even when jumping between systems.
 
I'm not getting a lot of fingerprints on the Das. I only touch the keys. It's heavy with sticky feet, so I don't have to restore it to the proper position.. it just stays put. And my fingers hover when I type.

But yes, anytime your skin touches this thing, it leaves a smudge. Can't say I'd choose a gloss finish. But it's better than the finish on the Steelseries which just feels like cheap plastic. And it's far better than the wrist-wrest on the bluetooth diNovo, on which eventually the top clear layer partially rubbed/peeled off, leaving the keyboard looking like it has dried jizz all over it. And then it's impossible to get the rest of the stuff off... constantly looking at that is really what kicked me into this keyboard buying binge.

New Das is on the truck for delivery now according to Purolator. Gonna be awesome!
 
Ever try Ducky keyboards? I'm loving my 9008G2. Standard layout, NKRO over USB (although not something I really use), Cherry switch options (I'm using blacks, they're heavy, but got used to them pretty fast), standard layout, and has a few macro buttons that I find very useful in the upper right-hand corner (the calculator button being especially useful). They're slightly cheaper than the Das keyboards too.
 
ballpoint said:
Geez man, sorry are you related to a 6Gv2 or something?

I use my computers a lot. Really, a LOT. Small irritations are magnified at that level of use. You missed a couple things I said. One thing I forgot to mention is I hate function keys taking the place of any key. Just add a damn function key. The diNovo had it in the logical spot.. betwen ESC and F1 where every "bog standard" keyboard has some extra space anyhow.

Okay, there's no bog standard layout. But I need the layout I'm used to. I used that same layout for almost five years on my two diNovos and the MS Wired on the backup-backup system. The Das has the layout I'm used to. When your layouts are consistent it's much easier to touch type even when jumping between systems.
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i never said you were wrong for not liking the keyboard, i just thought it was odd that you would label it a piece of crap due to your own personal preferences. to me your post sounded incredibly nitpicky and you found many faults with other boards, but for some reason didnt label them giant pieces of crap.

i completely agree with needing to have a layout that is comfortable to you, thats part of the purpose of shopping around for a keyboard. but something that makes a product wrong for you might make it right for someone else. you basically labelled it bad, when you should have said it was just different.

for the record i dont even own a steelseries.
 
Well I'm loving the Das Ultimate Silent. Best keyboard I've used, along with the professional. The blank keys have been no problem at all. The board looks bad-ass, really bad-ass. I love having this thing sitting on my desk.

The Cherry browns are very comfortable and the board feels solid, responsive, and fast. I'm typing 85WPM with really good accuracy.. I can hit 100+WPM on typrX.

The professional is now on the secondary system but I'll probably swap it to the main when I'm feelin clicky. I do some writing and after some tests I think I will prefer long-form writing on the Cherry blues. It feels more like a typewriter, and when you get flowing the sound is sort of hypnotic, drowing out distractions and reinforcing concentration.
 
I'd also like to say F wireless keyboards! If I had to esimate how many times over five years I had to restore the connection on my diNovo, I'd say about once every two or three days on average. If you do the math 5 years is about 1800 days. Multiply by 2.5 days /7 days per week and that's 630 times I had to restore the connection in 5 years. If restoring the connection eats up 1 minute, that's ten and a half hours of my life I could have spent doing ANYTHING ELSE but restoring the connection to my damn keyboard. Maybe calling my mom or doing some deep knee-bends, or finding a moment of quiet repose.

Those estimates are probably low. There were periods when it was disconnecting so much I'd resort to the $20 MS Wired Keyboard I keep on hand. And the time estimate doesn't include changing batteries or time and money spent supplying/charging batteries or figuring out it's the batteries and not the connection this time, etc.

And that's just the time entailed. Let's not talk about the stress and the lost productivity by having my train of thought interrupted. Looking back, although I have loved those keyboards, I'm really happy to kiss them goodbye.

For the record the RF connected diNovo was much less trouble than the bluetooth one. Also, I've never had that problem with any Logitech wireless mice, RF or bluetooth which I've got a variety of.
 
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