Revolution will play Genesis and TurboGrafx16 games!!!!!!

steviep said:
All the emulators on the 'net use HLE. Microsoft is also using high level emulation (the xbox360 is not anywhere close to powerful enough to use LLE for the xbox). Nintendo will be using low level emulation for their old consoles, and Sega/Hudson will be doing the same. There is a HUGE difference between high and low level, look it up if it's necessary. They mentioned Apple's "Itunes" idea when talking about the virtual console, too... however I'm sure they are paying very close attention to Microsoft's pricing scheme on their Arcade ($6 per game?)
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I'd like to add that Nintendo have already done a good job with N64 emulation, seen in the Zelda titles on the bonus disks. It also ran Mario Kart 64 quite well if you knew what you were doing.
 
Neurofreeze said:
Probably because back when they were actually in production the system and games cost a bazillion dollars each. I'm sure you've played or seen some Turbografx arcade games though. It was the first system that played current arcade games of the time equally well at home pretty much.
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You're thinking of the Neo Geo. The TurboGrafx16 was the US version of NEC's PC Engine. It wasn't really priced all that differently from the Sega Genesis. The problem it had was lack of arcade games, when Sega was cranking 'em out. They had games like Bonk's Adventure, Legendary Axe, Ninja Spirit, etc. I recall them being the first machine to have a CD add-on, too.
It was a good system, but just didn't have the names to compete over here.

As for N64 emulation...I've got one that plays Mario Kart, Mario 64, Zelda, etc. just fine. Nemu64. I don't think it's been updated in years, but if you like those games - it does a dandy job.
 
steviep said:
All the emulators on the 'net use HLE. Microsoft is also using high level emulation (the xbox360 is not anywhere close to powerful enough to use LLE for the xbox). Nintendo will be using low level emulation for their old consoles, and Sega/Hudson will be doing the same. There is a HUGE difference between high and low level, look it up if it's necessary
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Its not so much "powerful enough to use LLE" as is it capable, they have to be fairly similar architectures to do lle. For Nintendo it should be easy because there systems have always been similar in that the CPUs have all been custom.

I would say the main reason the xbox2 uses hle is just that its a in-order non x86 as opposed to the originals ooo Intel chip..


Any way I cant wait to play some Sega games on my nintendo.
:D :D :D
 
Only the Gamecube chip is similar to the Revolution chip (G3 -> G5 PPC). The others are not similar at all, but Nintendo's got all the documentation that it needs.
 
steviep said:
Only the Gamecube chip is similar to the Revolution chip (G3 -> G5 PPC). The others are not similar at all, but Nintendo's got all the documentation that it needs.
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And that's the key here. No reverse engineering.

Also, someone mentioned emulation errors with Starfox... Which is weird, because I was playing Starfox emulated on the big big screen (115" woot) a few months ago with no complaints - And I have the SNES and cartridge, and I swear, the ZSNES emulation was right-on. Like, dead-on. It's easier to use the PC and wireless controllers rather than the SNES... I can't think of any SNES games that ZSNES doesn't handle just fine, that I've played.

OK, my flatmate tells me he tried Dirt Trax FX and that didn't go so well. But that's it.
 
Oh God, I just had this thought. When we all wait in line for our pre-orders, it's gonna look exactly like the lines for Depech Mode and The Cure concerts.
 
TheAcorn said:
And that's the key here. No reverse engineering.

Also, someone mentioned emulation errors with Starfox... Which is weird, because I was playing Starfox emulated on the big big screen (115" woot) a few months ago with no complaints - And I have the SNES and cartridge, and I swear, the ZSNES emulation was right-on. Like, dead-on. It's easier to use the PC and wireless controllers rather than the SNES... I can't think of any SNES games that ZSNES doesn't handle just fine, that I've played.

OK, my flatmate tells me he tried Dirt Trax FX and that didn't go so well. But that's it.
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Zsnes is pretty bad with the sound on square games, esp FFIII and chrono trigger
 
This is totally amazing.

I am looking forward for this... all these good old games. On my TV once again. No more computer Emulation, getting spyware trying to illegaly dl the games etc... screw all of that.

This is what we need.

NES games need to be .49 cents, SNES and Sega games need to be .99 cents, N64 games need to be 1.99$...

Works for me. Still cheap enough. OR

You need to pay like a one time fee of 50$ to download whatever you want whenever you want.
 
I doubt the games will be THAT cheap. I'd guess $2-5 might be typical, if not more for N64 games. If they can rehash those games on the DS and charge $30...I doubt they'll go quite that low.
I'm fond of your subscription service, though. They could even get away with just streaming the content in older games by using something like that. They're small enough to download them while you're playing and just save them to temporary memory.
I can't see them giving a subscription service for newer games. It seems like they could make a lot more money making you pay a-la-carte.
 
It would be really sweet if Nintendo offered a yearly or monthly flat free download all you want plan, but I don't really see it happening.

LLE isn't harder than HLE on the hardware, actually, it makes more efficient use of it, but it's a bitch to program for. Porting from GC to Rev should be fairly easy... for the rest, with nintendo's detailed knowledge of the systems, and the vast power advantage of the Rev over the N64 and past systems, I figure they will turn to HLE. There will be some bugs at first sure, nobody is perfect with such a massive undertaking, but I think overall it should be pretty smooth, probably (hopefully) smoother than the 360s emulation of the original Xbox.

Also, since Nintendo hasn't released every little detail of what will be in the Rev, there is the chance they will take the Sony route and just stick the CPUs from the original Nintendo, SNES, and N64 somewhere on the PCB for the Rev, I can't imagine they cost more than pennies to make anymore (eh, possibly a couple bucks for the N64 unit). Graphics code could get more interesting... but still possible if Nintendo has used similar systems over time.

The big issue is the Rev not including a hard drive. With paltry internal flash memory, where are we going to store all of these games we can download? Hopefully an external hard drive comes as an option.
 
My modded Xbox already does this as well as Atari, Coleco, MAME and any other ancient gaming platform there is, all at 720p,1080i, fully customizable and with a nice front end. Oh and it's free. It's good that Nintendo, Sega and NEC are getting these games out there but they're a little late to the party.
 
hey thats cool as hell, my buddy and I used to play altered beast coop whenever we could. I can't wait to fire it up again.....WELCOME TO YOUR DOOM!
 
This is extremly Good news if you havent got the following:
1. You already have the old consoles and own the old snes/megadrive/turbo gfx games and use them on your TV.
2. You own the games but they are emulated through your PS2 on your TV.
3. You own the games but they are emulated through your DreamCast on your TV.
4. You own the games but they are emulated through your Media Center PC on your TV.
5. You own the games but they are emulated through your PC on your Large Monitor.
6. You own the games but they are emulated through your PSP.
7. You own the games but they are emulated through your PDA.
8. You own the games but they are emulated through your Xbox on your TV.

The same could be said for a few of the above and the PSPs PS1 Emulator etc.
I will be buying the Revolution but i wont be buying any of the old classics as i already have them on another console, pc, psp or my PDA Staying completely legal as i own the original cartridges etc. I did however buy smash TV on the 360 as thats a classic and there has not been an arcade perfect conversion to buy until now!
 
MH Knights said:
What, no Virtual Boy emulation?? :p

Ahem, in all seriousness I too want to know how much these games will be. It had better be around $.99 for AAA games and $.49 for lesser titles or I won't be interested. I would also be more interested if they had Sega CD, Saturn, and Dreamcast games.
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that is extremly low.. i wouldn't have a problem paying more for the games.. i'm sure they will cost more...
 
RancidWAnnaRIot said:
that is extremly low.. i wouldn't have a problem paying more for the games.. i'm sure they will cost more...
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Right. These are full games here, not 3 minute songs. I expect it to be in the 5 - 10 dollar range.
 
NulloModo said:
It would be really sweet if Nintendo offered a yearly or monthly flat free download all you want plan, but I don't really see it happening.

LLE isn't harder than HLE on the hardware, actually, it makes more efficient use of it, but it's a bitch to program for. Porting from GC to Rev should be fairly easy... for the rest, with nintendo's detailed knowledge of the systems, and the vast power advantage of the Rev over the N64 and past systems, I figure they will turn to HLE. There will be some bugs at first sure, nobody is perfect with such a massive undertaking, but I think overall it should be pretty smooth, probably (hopefully) smoother than the 360s emulation of the original Xbox.

Also, since Nintendo hasn't released every little detail of what will be in the Rev, there is the chance they will take the Sony route and just stick the CPUs from the original Nintendo, SNES, and N64 somewhere on the PCB for the Rev, I can't imagine they cost more than pennies to make anymore (eh, possibly a couple bucks for the N64 unit). Graphics code could get more interesting... but still possible if Nintendo has used similar systems over time.

The big issue is the Rev not including a hard drive. With paltry internal flash memory, where are we going to store all of these games we can download? Hopefully an external hard drive comes as an option.
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512mb of internal memory is more than enough for all this stuff. I mean... most NES games are <64kb, and most SNES games are <4mb. That said, the Rev also has 2 SD card slots on the front which will likely be put to use :)

Of course the emulation will be better than the 360's, since the XBox is a far more complicated and powerful machine than even the N64. Low level emulation will still probably take place though, since Nintendo still has all the documentation for the old systems. Maybe they will compile each game on its own, too.

Regardless, the "subscription service" you're all speaking of will likely become a reality. A leaked survey a few months back revealed some "maybe" type pricing. One of those "maybe" type pricing schemes was an "unlimited download rentals" plan for $10-15/month or something along those lines. If someone wants to pull up the link, feel free.

Edit: here's the link! Take it with a grain of salt, since more is known now about the virtual console, and even the pricing seems out of date with Iwata's "ITunes" comparison.
 
seems like the revolution will be the most exciting release out of the consoles
 
So basically nintendo is putting emulators on the console and making you pay to play roms. Awesome? While emulators made by ordinary people have been avalible free for download for years and years. And the gaming library for free isn't limited to what nintendo can and wants to give you. Basically the revolutions virtual game machine is a limited and handicapped version of a modded xbox.
 
Rash said:
This is extremly Good news if you havent got the following:
1. You already have the old consoles and own the old snes/megadrive/turbo gfx games and use them on your TV.
2. You own the games but they are emulated through your PS2 on your TV.
3. You own the games but they are emulated through your DreamCast on your TV.
4. You own the games but they are emulated through your Media Center PC on your TV.
5. You own the games but they are emulated through your PC on your Large Monitor.
6. You own the games but they are emulated through your PSP.
7. You own the games but they are emulated through your PDA.
8. You own the games but they are emulated through your Xbox on your TV.
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................Which most people don't.

1 - Few people own the old consoles, much less all the games for them.

2, 8 - These would require a modded console, and most people don't know how/don't care to mod their PS2's and Xboxes.

3, 4, 5, 6, 7 - Most people don't have PDA's or HTPC's, and even though people could just download them for the others, there are benefits to downloading them from Nintendo instead of over a P2P program, such as not having to worry about viruses, fake/corrupt files, or waiting in the queue forever.
 
Luke_Skywalker said:
So basically nintendo is putting emulators on the console and making you pay to play roms. Awesome? While emulators made by ordinary people have been avalible free for download for years and years. And the gaming library for free isn't limited to what nintendo can and wants to give you. Basically the revolutions virtual game machine is a limited and handicapped version of a modded xbox.
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yeah the only thing is.. that most people with the modded xboxes are violating some laws because most do not own the original copy. This feature will be a big selling point for the 38ish people that want to buy a game console for their little Timmy.
 
Isaacav2 said:
yeah the only thing is.. that most people with the modded xboxes are violating some laws because most do not own the original copy. This feature will be a big selling point for the 38ish people that want to buy a game console for their little Timmy.
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Assuming little Timmy hasn't already gone off and downloaded the roms himself.

However, as I said, there still are benefits to being able to download them via Nintendo.

Two I forgot to mention:

-Portability
-Not having to configure emulators
 
Nintendo also mentioned that new games will be allowed to be developed for the old systems (Genesis, Turbografix, SNES, NES, and N64) for the indie developers with tiny budgets. So how much are you guys paying for Smash TV on Live Arcade?
 
I wonder if they will also make available cd-rom titles. Gate of Thunder, Lords of Thunder, the Ys series, and Dracula X for the turbografx-cd would be awesome to play on Revolution. Considering that Dracula X still sells for over $100 on ebay, this would be a big deal to some people.
 
I think these are great features but if/when the 360 is hacked to allow emulators some of the advantages of the Rev will dissapear. Think about the type of people that know about and remember TG16/Genesis games. Many of those people have been into gaming for some time and likely know about hacks for existing consoles. If/when the 360 gets a hack paying ~$100 for some mod and being able to play unlimited roms plus who knows what else sounds a lot better than paying ~$200 for hardware + $?? for every rom I want to play on the Rev.
 
steviep said:
Nintendo also mentioned that new games will be allowed to be developed for the old systems (Genesis, Turbografix, SNES, NES, and N64) for the indie developers with tiny budgets. So how much are you guys paying for Smash TV on Live Arcade?
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Nintendo must read the forums.

Cause that was my idea. Seriously.
 
So basically the only disadvantages of this are the illegal work arounds?

I remember something about being able to play some of the back catalogue games online, and some that will undergo some changes when played on the virtual console. Not sure if it turned out to be a rumor or not though. If it turns out to be true, then it will have more of an advantage over the emulators that people can get.

And I think you'd be surprised by the amount of people who still dont know about roms and emulators.
 
The bad news is, according to Matt, that there will be no Rare titles to appear on the VC unless the IP is owned by Nintendo(eg. Donkey Kong). So I guess this means no Perfect Dark, and little chance of Goldeneye. Not that I was expecting those to appear anyway.
 
Lord Nassirbannipal said:
There are benefits to downloading them from Nintendo instead of over a P2P program, such as not having to worry about viruses, fake/corrupt files, or waiting in the queue forever.
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I think the emulation scene is huge! There are places where you can donate just a few dollars and download as many virus scanned, non corrupt, high speed download roms as you want! Which is what i do, like i said as long as you own the original these sites are great. All these old games id rather have on a smaller screen and portable anyway. Each to their own though.
 
Rash said:
I think the emulation scene is huge! There are places where you can donate just a few dollars and download as many virus scanned, non corrupt, high speed download roms as you want! Which is what i do, like i said as long as you own the original these sites are great. All these old games id rather have on a smaller screen and portable anyway. Each to their own though.
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It's certainly bigger than it was back in 2000/2001, but you'd be suprised at the number of people who haven't the vaguest idea that you can play NES/SNEs/Genesis/Playstation/etc games on a PC.
 
steviep said:
Nintendo also mentioned that new games will be allowed to be developed for the old systems (Genesis, Turbografix, SNES, NES, and N64) for the indie developers with tiny budgets. So how much are you guys paying for Smash TV on Live Arcade?
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Five bucks, and it's money well spent. I'm similarly looking forward to Street Fighter II HF and the Sonic the Hedgehog games that are supposed to be showing up soon. That's Nintendo's biggest problem, IMHO: if Live Arcade takes off with the indie developer community, you'll see a ton of new, good-looking, creative games that will make Nintendo's old-but-good games just look old. And, unfortunately for Big N, it seems as if Microsoft is starting to really open up to the indie developer community with the release of XNA.

The "re-develop for old systems" is the biggest non-starter there ever was. Why the heck would I ever want to go back to hard metal programming on weak hardware when I can use modern APIs and more powerful hardware to do the same stuff?

Again, pricing is everything. If Nintendo overprices all their games, this entire scheme is more or less worthless. If they're cheap enough, it could be a fantastic feature. Time will tell.

-Erwos
 
Interesting addition:
http://www.revolutionreport.com/articles/read/360

In a recent press release, Hudson announced that the company would support Nintendo's Virtual Console service with not only TurboGrafx/PC-Engine cartridge games, but also titles from its compact disc revision, the CD-ROM^2.

While not stating specifically which titles from the CD-ROM^2 family (which encompasses the Super CD and Arcade CD upgrades) would be allocated, Hudson did cite that over 670 games - 120 published by Hudson- appeared on the format and are potential candidates for the Virtual Console.

Readers should note that merely because Hudson decided to emulate their CD-based games for the Virtual Console does not necessarily mean SEGA is able to do the same with its SEGA CD system. Only time will tell if SEGA wants to provide games beyond those on its Genesis (otherwise known as Mega Drive) console.

The Japanese press release can be found here.
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steviep said:
Interesting addition:
http://www.revolutionreport.com/articles/read/360
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...yay? Honestly, virtually nobody cares about turbo graphx. There's maybe a handful of games that even the hardcore gamers will want off of sega cd, let alone this thing. People might say they want them, but when it comes down to it lets see how many people lay down $5-10 for it, particularly if there's other n64 or snes games they want instead. The only way things like this will work is if they are a) extraordinarily cheap or b) have some sort of a rental system where the games expire after a certain time...either you are alloted x at a time or x per month total.
 
a lot of you seem to not realize that.. we as in the "serious gamer" are in the minority... this will work.. i think anyway..
 
Spaceman_Spiff said:
The thing is, honestly, there's gonna be maybe 5% of the titles that get 95% of the total downloads, and the rest will mostly just sit there.
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I agree completely. People can sit here all day talking about how great this all is, but when it comes down to spending actual money on this stuff, the majority of people are only going to download the surefire classics.
 
xenogears said:
I agree completely. People can sit here all day talking about how great this all is, but when it comes down to spending actual money on this stuff, the majority of people are only going to download the surefire classics.
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true.. i see my self Dling some games.. but definatly not loads of games...

i still think it will work out...

so those of you who think the vitual console will fail.. do you think the the PS1 emulation download service on the PSP will fail too???

I think both will be successful
 
Spaceman_Spiff said:
...yay? Honestly, virtually nobody cares about turbo graphx. There's maybe a handful of games that even the hardcore gamers will want off of sega cd, let alone this thing. People might say they want them, but when it comes down to it lets see how many people lay down $5-10 for it, particularly if there's other n64 or snes games they want instead. The only way things like this will work is if they are a) extraordinarily cheap or b) have some sort of a rental system where the games expire after a certain time...either you are alloted x at a time or x per month total.
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SegaCD would be hot, but probably take up too much room. I'd pay a couple bucks to DL sewershark just to remember how awful it was.... (worst game I have ever played.... so bad it has sentimental value). The only decent SegaCD game I played was Lunar, and the Playstation versions are a lot better... Still, maybe I missed some good SegaCD titles.
 
Going back to the indie developer thing....

If any indie developer took the original Zelda:LTtP for snes and cloned everything about it except the obvious, and just made new maps for it, it would be my ddreaaam come true. Zelda for the SNES and Secret of Mana 1 for the SNES are the bars for videogame entertainment, IMHO. I loved everything about thooose games, especially the overhead view and the sppprrriteeess bbeeyyaachh :D :D
 
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