I have the 19" version Samsung 906BW and the 360 looks GREAT! But remember 360 doesnt support its native resolution 1400x900 so letters and objects have a small shadow effect at close range but this happens on ALL PC LCDs with aspect ratio 16:10. I have mine set to 1280x768 and its the only resolution that makes it look decent. But out of all lcd pc monitors this is probably the best one for the xbox 360!
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Samsung 226BW 22": 3000:1 Contrast, 2ms response time
- Thread starter Kast
- Start date
Are there still "S" panels out there..??
I was going to buy one locally @ BestBuy tonight but wasn't sure what my chances are.
Also, I'm going to be switching from 1600x1200 to 1680x1050, am I losing a ton of screen realestate by going to a 22" and not a 24? The 24" is hard to justify when it's 2x the cost.
Thanks
I was going to buy one locally @ BestBuy tonight but wasn't sure what my chances are.
Also, I'm going to be switching from 1600x1200 to 1680x1050, am I losing a ton of screen realestate by going to a 22" and not a 24? The 24" is hard to justify when it's 2x the cost.
Thanks
The hard fact is, that the 226BW out-of-box setting are simply ridiculous, you should change them as soon as you unpack the box and you must not judge the LCD by its performance under these setting. Here is what I did to set up my S panel (this is important as the characteristics of the S and A panels are likely to be quite different) to get a picture I find satisfying and that appears to be more or less "correct" based on evaluation of several calibration test images etc. Note that the result is likely to be inferior to one obtainable with professional calibration tools but then again this LCD is not a professional panel to be used for photo retouching etc. It is a TN panel and its performance with respect to colour accuracy is inherently very limited by that. Also bear in mind that each panel is slightly different and the settings that work for one piece may not be simply copied to another.
I changed my OSD settings to the ones mentioned in JoopvtG's post http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030879665&postcount=1330 referring to an article at http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2007/test-samsung-226bw-teil11.html that is:
Brightness 89
Contrast 50 (do not ever go beyond 50 or maybe 55 here as you will start losing midtones)
Red 45
Green 52
Blue 34 (note the lower amount of Blue and higher amount of Green here, this is where your yellow should become actual yellow)
Gamma 1 (the default value)
Sharpness 16 (this is purely a matter of personal preference, I find the default value of 20 over sharpened, going below 16 on the other hand blurs the picture beyond usability, anyway this has obviously little to nothing to do with colours and gamma)
This should set the panel HW to reasonable settings that do not sacrify colour midtones for sake for insane contrast and give an acceptable brightness (even more acceptable after the next step) and most importantly compensate for strong colour shift towards blue present with the default settings.
The next thing you need to do is to set the gamma of your monitor. This may be done in different ways such as via a gamma loader or via your graphic card's settings and I must admit that I am not sure about the difference between the two methods but intuitively I tend to prefer the former. Yet it is possible that the result is the same, any information on this would be welcome. Please see the gamma calibration chart at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ for reference, you will note that the setting above result in gamma somwhere around 1.8, but you want 2.2 for correct sRGB setting (and more pleasing picture including richer coulours).
I used the calibrate option found in the Magic tune software from Samsung. I did not do any more colour shifting and only set the gamma value. The result gets loaded at each windows startup via the included loader. After this calibration the gamma calibration chart at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ shows more or less achieved gamma of 2.2 which is correct. Using QuickGamma i found out that in my case the monitor had a default HW gamma of approx. 1.75 which corresponds to the amount of approx. 1.8 mentioned above. A similar if not the same result could be obtained by setting your graphic card's gamma correction to approx. 0.8 but again this is just blindly copying my setting and therefore is not advisable, however if the gamma calibration chart at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ shows you have a gamma of 2.2 after such setting I suppose it is fine to keep it at that.
Important things to note:
The brightness/contrast/gamma of TN panels such as the 226BW WILDLY changes depending on the angle from which you wiev the LCD, you can see that easily on the gamma calibration chart. Therefore try to find the angle from which you will be viewing the LCD most of the time and stick to that, also do check the gamma calibration chart from time to time to check that the setting are OK.
Gamma loaders such as the Samsung's one or the QuickGammaLoader only apply their setting at windows startup and the settings get reset after waking the computer up from the suspend mode, so if you use hibernation you will have to re-run the gamma loader each time after the computer wakes up. This may be avoided by using your graphic card's gamma correction however other side effects may be introduced, I honestly do not know
You WILL get banding on Gradient test (banding test) at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ . The panel is TN, 6-bit, do not expect miracles.
Hope this helps
EDIT:
- What I refer to as "gamma loader" is actually called a "LUT loader", LUT being the look-up table used by graphic cards for colour correction. This may be any of Adobe Gamma Loader, QuickGammaLoader, OptiCAL Startup or whatever. See http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html for more details.
- It appears that using the gamma correction found in your graphics card control panel should work just as well, the only problem being what is to correct correction factor to use..The correction factor APPEARS to be calculated by dividing your LCD's native gamma (roughly 1.7-1.8 in case of (my) 226BW S panel set to the OSD values above) by the desired gamma of 2.2 (sRGB colour space), which makes it something around 0,8 (I repeat, this is the gamma correction factor to be used in your video card's control panel). You may check the accuracy of this by checking the the gamma calibration chart at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/
Ok, I did what you said. Indeed, it looks MUCH better now, though I still had to lower the gamma like you said and thus it's not applied in any games or overlay windows. So it's still way too bright in-game, even if I change the settings with my video card drivers, it won't change a thing for that matter.
Damn I feel bad for complaining like this, especially cause everyone else is being so positive about this monitor. I can return it till next week, so I'll mess around with it a lil bit more till then.
Thanks
Video card drivers usually have separate colour settings for 3D, in the Ati Catalyst Control Panel it's under Color - Fullscreen 3D. Setting the gamma correction here to approx. 0.8 SHOULD do the trick for 3D games (haven't tried myself yet as I've been a very casual gamer lately).
Anyway, do not be fooled by the cries of excitement over this LCD, it's still just a TN panel (albeit possible one of the best ones) with all the limitation the technology brings, so don't expect miracles. I for one am actually a little dissapointed after hearing so much praise on this panel and confronting it with the actual performance. But then again, the excitement comes mostly from hc gamers so that might be the reason.
Guys, I finally decided that, statistically, because the complaints were much more numerous about the A panel than about the S panel, I didn't want to be part of the lottery. Therefore, last Saturday I went to CC to see the HP w2207. They didn't have it on display, but there was one in the warehouse. I took it home and after much tweaking I couldn't be happier. I still feel that there's more to be obtained, but it's already awsome. Some of you have read my writings in the past when I agonized about the 226wb. No more. The HP comes with about the same level of ridiculous settings, so one must do some tweaking. The monitor is, therefore, not for the average user. But you guys could deal with it quite well.
Yesterday I installed two neon lights (18" long, 15 watts) into my computer lab closet and to my astonishment some great things happened, which may be of help for any monitor's environment.
1. Great compensation for the monitor's brighness.
2. Black looks blacker. It may sound silly, but that's the way it is.
3. Better color rendition.
4. No more eye strain.
The only gripe I have so far is the horizontal viewing angle. However this I trust will be improved by further tweaking.
Anyhow, I am far from provoking a bait and switch here. Mansize_tissue knows this. Just that I got very tired to read every Internet page that I could lay my eyes on about the 226bw and still not buying.
Sylva.
Yesterday I installed two neon lights (18" long, 15 watts) into my computer lab closet and to my astonishment some great things happened, which may be of help for any monitor's environment.
1. Great compensation for the monitor's brighness.
2. Black looks blacker. It may sound silly, but that's the way it is.
3. Better color rendition.
4. No more eye strain.
The only gripe I have so far is the horizontal viewing angle. However this I trust will be improved by further tweaking.
Anyhow, I am far from provoking a bait and switch here. Mansize_tissue knows this. Just that I got very tired to read every Internet page that I could lay my eyes on about the 226bw and still not buying.
Sylva.
amoeba1126
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dude man....this thread is for 226bw exclusive....if you want to talk about another monitor, please start its own thread.
saccorator
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Manny Calavera
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You may say, the other monitor is just really dark...maybe, but it obviously looks better..
So I'm not sure, I'm thinking about returning it..
The above looks like the stark difference between my Dell 2005FPW A03 (S-IPS) and an older LG 1751S (TN / 262k colors,not even 16.2 million
) I us for my Itunes playlists... The LG is a nice little screen,but looks like garbage compared to my Dell when playing movies.Maybe if the Sammy was properly calibrated.... ? perfekt green
n00b
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The above looks like the stark difference between my Dell 2005FPW A03 (S-IPS) and an older LG 1751S (TN / 262k colors,not even 16.2 million
I'm wondering, is this typically how TN panels compare to S-IPS? That's a pretty dramatic difference.
After seeing this, i'm leaning more towards the 2007WFP. I'm not heavy into color intensive editing (just minor photo editing on photoshop), but the difference shown here says a lot about how much better 8-bit is over 6-bit+2.
Nah, it's just a difference between two differently calibrated monitors. Differences between TN and S-IPS are substantial but you cannot judge them by photographs of two monitors neithr of which has been properly calibrated. If colour accuracy independent of viewing angle is not crucial for you, you may as well settle for a TN panel. You should see for yourself, just do not make any rash conclusions based on pictures on a web forum
Argh, I'm using the Omega Drivers, with which I can't seem to find the setting you mentioned. I'll install the Catalyst drivers and try it out.
And, there's probably a pretty big chance, all monitors in this price range won't have very good colors? I mean, the IIYAMA monitor, which you saw on the pics I posted, on the right, I paid ±1000 EUR for it. I can understand there needs to be a difference somewhere besides the TN panel. I'm not saying the iiyama is calibrated like it should be though, but in my opinion it just looks better than the samsung, which you already kind of explained why..
Grts
And, there's probably a pretty big chance, all monitors in this price range won't have very good colors? I mean, the IIYAMA monitor, which you saw on the pics I posted, on the right, I paid ±1000 EUR for it. I can understand there needs to be a difference somewhere besides the TN panel. I'm not saying the iiyama is calibrated like it should be though, but in my opinion it just looks better than the samsung, which you already kind of explained why..
Grts
Strange, I'm using Omegas as well and still have the Ati Control Panel installed and funcional (you won't find the 3D Fullscreen setting in the Ati Tray Tools though). Anyway, installing the original Catalysts should do the trick I guess. Also I checked the Fullscreen 3D settings with a Windows 3D screensaver and the gamma seem to be applied correctly.
If you are dissatisfied with the picture you get on your 226BW even after fiddling with the coulour balance and the gamma settings as described above, chances are that TN panels are simply not good enough for you. Anyway going from na S-IPS to a TN must be a very painfull if not unacceptable step and generally can hardly be recommended. I myself "upgraded" from a mediocre 19" CRT and hell it hurts sometimes
If you're unhappy with it, consider 21" Samsung 215TW. It's S-IPS, not that much smaller, not that much more expensive, definitely much better for colour intensive applications, probably worse for gaming (heard it suffers from input lag and slower response time).
EDIT: The 215TW is actually S-PVA, sorry.
ffs lol - I uninstalled the Omega drivers, rebooted, then I got a blue screen because of the gamma tool from samsung, which couldn't apply its settings, probably because there were no drivers installed... So I boot in to safe mode, Catalyst told me I had to install .NET Framework. Which wouldn't work, because in safe mode the Windows Installer Service cannot be started. Aaaaarghhh! So had to install the drivers only, so I could login to windows again without getting a blue screen, and install dotnet, and the control center.
Now you tell me, Omega has it as well *gets a rope*
Got it now though, the 0.8 made it look much better. I'll try it with a game in a few. Also the video settings, which apply to overlay as well, are great.
Uhm, well, I had the iiyama as primary monitor and some 19" Benq(TN) as seconday, which was crap. Now I moved the iiyama to secondary.. Of course I must say, the Samsung's still way better than the Benq. It's just a shame if I'd play a game now and then (not very often either) on the samsung, and I have the iiyama which colors are much better, just standing there, it's not as cool as on a 22" though..
thanks for helping me out so far..
Now you tell me, Omega has it as well *gets a rope*
Got it now though, the 0.8 made it look much better. I'll try it with a game in a few. Also the video settings, which apply to overlay as well, are great.
Uhm, well, I had the iiyama as primary monitor and some 19" Benq(TN) as seconday, which was crap. Now I moved the iiyama to secondary.. Of course I must say, the Samsung's still way better than the Benq. It's just a shame if I'd play a game now and then (not very often either) on the samsung, and I have the iiyama which colors are much better, just standing there, it's not as cool as on a 22" though..
thanks for helping me out so far..
Mansize_tissue
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Do games look... blurry at all on 22" screens? Well, not so much blurry, but not as sharp as they would on a 20"? Because i don't know if games would look any sharper on the 206BW over the 226BW, since i'm not too bothered about the extra size.
amoeba1126
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a 20" has better image quality than a 22" since they have the same resolution, meaning that the image is more spread out over the extra pixels on the 22" Thats assuming however you sit the same difference. the larger the monitor the farther you sit. sit far enuf...all small blemishes blur out
It seems to be working for some games, for example, works with Age Of Empires III, doesn't work with S.T.A.L.K.E.R, for some reason. Also, about the "people-looking-dead" part, I changed the saturation and gamma a little in the Catalyst Control Center, it's much better now.
Wow should I go for the 20" then? I only sit about 2ft from the screen.
OMG, ppl do some math: the screen of a 22 incher is 10% wider and taller that that of a 20". If the resolution is the same, each pixel must be 10% taller and wider. What do you expect to notice in terms of blurriness with a 10% difference? Purple haze?
Is the picture of a 20" LCD more detailed than that of a 22"? YES, more pixels need to squeeze into the same area.
Is the picture of a 22" blurrier than that of a 22"? NO, only the pixels are slighly bigger.
Will you notice? NO WAY
Do you care? Beats me, but you can still sit 10% further from the screen, can't you?
Hey guys. Just another post to prove that the S panel is indeed superior to the A panel. I just returned my A panel, which I tried EVERY single setting adjustment possible including my video card settings, but could not fix the dithering problems and washed out look and extreme backlight bleed from the sides. As soon as I plugged in my S panel I did the various testing and tried games, vids, movies out and this monitor now has no problems like my old A panel had. (note: I still took into consideration the limitations of a tn panel and it has the various characteristics of the usual high end tns) I at first did not believe there would be much of a difference between panels but am now totally convinced. By the way the date of my monitor on the back is march 2007.
TridenT_Boy3555
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OMFG I hear A panel is bad and I just got one!!!!! Nooo!!! What is the problems with A panels? I got it from newegg!(those bastards!!!)
What are optimal settings for everything on this monitor? I do have a big window or 2 75W lights on in a small area with green walls(kickass walls).
I hear A panel is bad and I just got one!!!!! Nooo!!! What is the problems with A panels? I got it from newegg!(those bastards!!!)What are optimal settings for everything on this monitor? I do have a big window or 2 75W lights on in a small area with green walls(kickass walls).
amoeba1126
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may just be BS but I heard Samsung is going back to S Panels now due to reports of false specs on the A Panel, mainly 800:1 cr and 2000:1 dcr. Once again, I just read this somewhere so don't take my word for it. on the other hand, it dose explain a lot, since this is the specs a lot of other brands use for screens.
TheSandman2236
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TheSandman2236
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OMFG
What are optimal settings for everything on this monitor? I do have a big window or 2 75W lights on in a small area with green walls(kickass walls).
TridenT, I wouldnt discard your A panel, check out this thread. There are alot of people with optimal settings for your display. Check it out ^_^
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030893629&postcount=1393
amoeba1126
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This link here:
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/708842.html
Specs on retailer's site:
http://www.ht.com.au/N/-204/part/U5893/in_merch/Best+Sellers+-+Displays/detail.hts
Granted that this is in Australia, but Samsung is a global corporation so geographic location should not matter. Rumor also fits the trend we have been seeing with S Panels being made in 2007.
amoeba1126
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A few people seemed confused about why so many consumers are so outraged by Samsungs sneak towards A panels. A few even come to the defense of Samsung, as unreasonable as it seems. Consumers are upset because A panels are clearly inferior to S panels. They need greater calibrations out of the box, are prone to backlight bleeding, and seem generally inferior in every possible way. Lets say Porsche uses their great engines in their new 911. Everything is great...your baby runs like silk on skin. Then, without any announcement to the general market, they hire some industry in China to make their engines to cut costs. All of a sudden, people who sat in your silky 911 go out and buy their own and WALA! gears grind, acceleration sputters, and dreams come crashing down. Granted this is on a much greater price and marginal utlity scale, to most consumers who buy this type of monitor, it IS our Porsche and if the engine is not what we thought it to be, OF COURSE we would be pissed off. On a tangent, if we could afford Porsches, we wouldn't be so desperately trying to find panels but rather buying 32-37" Sharp Aquos Gaming Ed LCD TV's.
I don't have any of the problems you mention with my Viewsonic, but if the Samsung really is superior, then the Viewsonic should go back just so I at least have HDCP and superior response time...
The Viewsonic is still under return policy, so I could easily trade it in at no loss, but I really am on the fence about it since the Viewsonic just looks perfect to my eye.
So I can't decide if it's worth taking back or not.
stanleyjohn
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That Australian Forum also talks about the sammy 226bw being sold now with C (chimei) Panels.http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=678469&p=58#bottom
amoeba1126
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which is why i said i dont know how accurate the report is. i highly doubt samsung would every go to C panels as chimei just sucks.
stanleyjohn
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I dont know how much truth there is in this c panel but the whirlpool site chats about it alot and a few claim to have got one.Its possible that if there is a C panel it may not be presently sold to the US.Found this by one of its users>>
This was told to me by a samsung rep
C PANEL: made by CMO (chimei)
S PANEL: Made by samsung
A PANEL: made by au optronics
She said they all have the same specs, pass the same quality standards and have the same warranty.
The C and A panels are built to keep up with demand.
I asked her if the samsung panel would be better then she said, "people say that but there is really no difference in the quality and at the end of the day they all have warranties'
This was told to me by a samsung rep
C PANEL: made by CMO (chimei)
S PANEL: Made by samsung
A PANEL: made by au optronics
She said they all have the same specs, pass the same quality standards and have the same warranty.
The C and A panels are built to keep up with demand.
I asked her if the samsung panel would be better then she said, "people say that but there is really no difference in the quality and at the end of the day they all have warranties'
OMFG
What are optimal settings for everything on this monitor? I do have a big window or 2 75W lights on in a small area with green walls(kickass walls).
I just got my Easter special 226bw from Newegg, and it's an A panel. It also has one dead/stuck pixel.
But, I think I'm going to keep it; the pixel is hardly noticeable. It looks as good as my 225bw. And, with return shipping and new shipping on a Samsung 24", which was my next best choice, it's not worth it (The extra $35 dollars).
One can only ponder this purchase so long; and life is too short.
I do not like the stand, however.
amoeba1126
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tell her thats a load of crap...ask her if she has ever actually COMPARED the 3 side by side. shes got to be blind to not notice the difference. shes just blowing you off with a typical generic i-dont-care-about-integrity answers that companies like to give.
stanleyjohn
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amoeba1126! Rumors tend to fly wild on these forums at times.Im just stating what i have seen online about a C panel.A few other forums mention it breifly!It may all be from that one thread i discribed above.Until i see more solid proof!ill call the A panel nothing more than a rumor with no fact.
Update!! I just asked a question on the australian (Whirlpool forum) website about the C panel.The question was to those who claim to have recieved one.How do they know that its a C panel.Hopefully i will get some answers.
Update!! I just asked a question on the australian (Whirlpool forum) website about the C panel.The question was to those who claim to have recieved one.How do they know that its a C panel.Hopefully i will get some answers.
stanleyjohn
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Ok! I got a few replies from the Whirlpool forum on the C panel.Here is one of the answers i recieved.>>>Hi StanlyJohn,
I tried to reply to your post on hardforums but it seems to take forever to get registered to be allowed to post. Found your post here. In any case. I have a C panel that I received a few days ago and I live in So Cal. You can tell it is a C panel by the C after the 226BW model number on the back of the LCD just like the A or S panel except that there is no [R] on the back. You can also tell by accessing the on screen "hidden" menu and it will read under CMO M220Z1 under panel info instead of the AU M220EW01 (AUO) or AM LCD220M1 (Samsung). So apparantly there are now 3 different versions of this monitor. I don't have a picture of the rear sticker, but I can take one. My monitor was made in March in Tainjin China or something like that .. .I can't spell....
I tried to reply to your post on hardforums but it seems to take forever to get registered to be allowed to post. Found your post here. In any case. I have a C panel that I received a few days ago and I live in So Cal. You can tell it is a C panel by the C after the 226BW model number on the back of the LCD just like the A or S panel except that there is no [R] on the back. You can also tell by accessing the on screen "hidden" menu and it will read under CMO M220Z1 under panel info instead of the AU M220EW01 (AUO) or AM LCD220M1 (Samsung). So apparantly there are now 3 different versions of this monitor. I don't have a picture of the rear sticker, but I can take one. My monitor was made in March in Tainjin China or something like that .. .I can't spell....
People with S panels also reported dithering problems, washed out looks, and extreme backlight bleeding.
If this is true, then everyone with an A panel will be able to exchange it for an S panel.
And what are you basing this on? The rants and raves of some posters? As I mentioned a while back, my A panel has more backlight bleeding than I would like but it is not noticeable whatsoever under normal use, only in a very dark room (basically in the dark) with a dark screen being displayed. As far as needing greater calibrations, well even the S needs calibration. And while it did take some time, I have calibrated my A panel to my satisfaction and I have no problems with the LCD monitor test.
Yeah baby! I lucked out and got a good A panel!!!
Based on StanleyJohn's post though it does look like someone got a C panel. If there are now C panels, I'm guessing that Samsung is just trying to keep up with the demand and needed to go to a third supplier for panels. Are the C's worse than the A's which are supposedly worse than the S's. I guess we'll find out soon enough. As for me, I'm sticking with my great looking, well-calibrated A panel unless it turns out that the specs for the A are not what was advertised.
amoeba1126
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i based my comment on having had an a panel and exchanging it and got an s panel.
I returned the A for an S too, and honestly couldn't tell the difference, especially while gaming. For photos and movies I'll definitely like to look at them side by side but can't recall anything particularly bad about the A panel. I still get dithering and banding problems in movies with the S panel but will have to view with higher quality media before making any comparisons as it could just be the encoding.
chuckywonkers
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Hi All I have been reading this forum for a while now and have been waiting for the 226BW to finally be available here in Australia. I have just finished working for a computer parts wholesaler and had the opportunity to try out several 22" monitors all models I tried seemed to suffer from either a crappy contrast/calibration and or backlight bleeding issues. I tried out Mitsubishi, LG, Viewsonic and Chimei panels all of which suffered from one or both stated issues. Calibrating all of the models I tried was also mind numbingly painful if not near impossible. I placed an order for a 226BW and waited with baited breathe to see if I would receive a S or an A panel. Anyway my 226BW arrived a couple of days ago as it turns out here in Australia we are receiving C panels which is what I got. I used the calibration settings offered up several times on this forum and I must say this monitor is amazing, it seems the C panel I have got here is not suffering from any of the symptoms people complain they have with their A panels. I am amazed at the black levels on this monitor....GREAT....Also none of the splotichiness people complain of when watching movies is present, my girlfriend summed it up best when watching a movie on the 226Bw last night...She said the picture has amazing depth, and she's right the picture just pops its almost like the difference with 2D and 3D. There is the tiniest bit of backlight bleeding on the top and bottom of the screen but really not that noticeable at all unless you are really looking for it.
I am very pleased with the C panel and would recommend it to anyone, I think another good trick with a monitor that is this large is to have some sort of lighting a couple of feet behind the monitor as I have found this totally removes any eye strain associated with viewing something that has such a strong contrast. By the way the C panels have a 1000:1 contrast ratio [And 3000:1 in Dynamic Mode] not the 800:1 that some models have been said to have.
Love it...can't take my eyes off of it....Mmmmm Eye Candy
I am very pleased with the C panel and would recommend it to anyone, I think another good trick with a monitor that is this large is to have some sort of lighting a couple of feet behind the monitor as I have found this totally removes any eye strain associated with viewing something that has such a strong contrast. By the way the C panels have a 1000:1 contrast ratio [And 3000:1 in Dynamic Mode] not the 800:1 that some models have been said to have.
Love it...can't take my eyes off of it....Mmmmm Eye Candy