I have a tablet. I need a (real) pen-enabled device with x86 (actually x64), 8GB, 1080P (or more) i5 and and as thin and light as possible. If the Yoga had an active pen, I'd take it, despite the 900P res. I need a professional / business-use device, a market that almost no one has addressed with launch W8 devices.
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Samsung ATIV Smart PC Pro - The future of computing?
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I have a tablet. I need a (real) pen-enabled device with x86 (actually x64), 8GB, 1080P (or more) i5 and and as thin and light as possible. If the Yoga had an active pen, I'd take it, despite the 900P res. I need a professional / business-use device, a market that almost no one has addressed with launch W8 devices.
For those mentioning the i5, please note that it is a DUAL-core configuration, not quad. Also, it's insanely low power. Don't expect desktop or even laptop i3 performance from this. Definitely better than the Atom-based variants.
Amazon lists it as being included.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0098O9TRO/ref=nosim/conscity-20
Amazon lists it as being included.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0098O9TRO/ref=nosim/conscity-20
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
heatlesssun
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You might be surprised by how well these Core i5 ULVs run. I have a Samsung Series 7 Slate, a Sandy Bridge from last you, about as fast on the CPU side as Ivy but the HD4000 is considerably faster then the HD3000 and the thing is fast enough to run Visual Studio 2012 nicely while working on moderately large projects. Even a lot PC games on low settings on the S7S run ok, the HD4000 would improve that a lot. No it's not a high end desktop replacement but plenty of performance for doing any number of things in less than two pounds, try that with a desktop or even a laptop.
Someone please explain this to me, as these have the exact same name and model number, but slightly different sizes and $800 price differences:
http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/tablet-pcs/XE700T1C-A01US
http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/tablet-pcs/XE700T1C-A04US
This is a really cool device, but if I have to pay $800 to avoid the plastic shell, I'll just wait for Surface Pro.
http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/tablet-pcs/XE700T1C-A01US
http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/tablet-pcs/XE700T1C-A04US
This is a really cool device, but if I have to pay $800 to avoid the plastic shell, I'll just wait for Surface Pro.
heatlesssun
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I've seen this myself and was wondering the same thing, I've no idea.
I think it's just Samsung screwing up their own product spec pages, besides the diminutive difference in size measurements the only other difference I see is one is listed w/Win 8 and the other with Win 8 Pro. It seems manufacturers can't pull their heads out of their asses and properly announce any of the Core i-series Win 8 convertibles; I imagine there's probably a good deal of hedging going on as they wonder what MS will do with the Surface Pro's pricing.
Remember, ASUS had to adjust their Vivo Tab RT pricing after the Surface's price was announced, the OEMs are walking on egghsells right now 'till they know what MS is gonna do. They're probably rushing products too to get 'em out there before the Surface Pro...
Remember, ASUS had to adjust their Vivo Tab RT pricing after the Surface's price was announced, the OEMs are walking on egghsells right now 'till they know what MS is gonna do. They're probably rushing products too to get 'em out there before the Surface Pro...
rudy
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I do not get why people are so adverse to thick tablets, 1 inch thick, ever carried that? It is really nothing. For most of the history of humans they have been lugging around books / binders that were that thick or more and no one complained. And for alot of people they want the simplicity of a single device and the cost savings it has. If you build your own desktops, sure you can do some nice stuff for great prices, and then you can upgrade instead of total rebuilds. But the vast majority of the population does not do this, and desktops really are losing alot of their value as the advantages in cost savings of producing smaller devices is starting to over take them. For alot of people they are just going to try to get one machine that is good enough for all of it. $1000 gets you a reasonable laptop that can game and do whatever.
Vast majority of the population isn't gonna replace parts on a thicker tablet or even opt for one over a sexier lighter model either... Broad generalizations really aren't gonna help your argument. I don't spend hours holding binders or textbooks up in the air either, that's just silly. There are some convertibles approaching your concept tho, like the Yoga 13 (not in the sense that it's fully upgradeable but size-wise).
LstBrunnenG
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Wish the keyboard on this was backlit like the forthcoming Asus model. With all the horror stories I've been hearing about Asus customer service I'd rather go Samsung.
ASUS laptops used to have some of the best warranties, I dunno if their mobo customer service is handled by the same departments or what (mobo RMA is where I've heard most of the complaints from...). Didn't hear too many woes from people when it came to getting the original dock for the first Transformer replaced either (very first batch had a battery drain issue that couldn't be corrected in firmware like later revisions)... So I do wonder how they handle their different product divisions.
LstBrunnenG
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Just sayin'...
Their products are really good though. No complaints with my TF201, even though the XDA forums are an echo chamber full of complaints. But that was before I saw that thread...
Their products are really good though. No complaints with my TF201, even though the XDA forums are an echo chamber full of complaints. But that was before I saw that thread...
Interesting... I agree Xda blows things out of proportion, every phone/tablet I've bought were a release debacle if you go by the number of threads on Xda describing supposed defects (yet after three launch day EVOs the most I've experienced is capacitive button blacklight bleed)...
No complaints about my TF101 either BUT I did get it a few months after release (first few revisions seem to have had speaker and dock issues, only found out later) and I did avoid the Ice Cream Sandwich update for a couple of months (due to the random restart while idle complaints on Xda). Knowing all that and knowing how they botched antenna reception on the first Infinity, I probably wouldn't buy ASUS without a lot of research (certainly not a launch day type of purchase after a couple of reviews). Specially after looking thru that thread for a bit.
To their credit, at least they do have community reps out there that try to smooth things out, I see one in that very thread and I saw one across a couple of threads on Xda during the defective dock issue and during the ICS update mess (took three updates to get it right). As an enthusiast I appreciate that, even though I know it does nothing for he average consumer who's never gonna find his way to that kinda resource.
No complaints about my TF101 either BUT I did get it a few months after release (first few revisions seem to have had speaker and dock issues, only found out later) and I did avoid the Ice Cream Sandwich update for a couple of months (due to the random restart while idle complaints on Xda). Knowing all that and knowing how they botched antenna reception on the first Infinity, I probably wouldn't buy ASUS without a lot of research (certainly not a launch day type of purchase after a couple of reviews). Specially after looking thru that thread for a bit.
To their credit, at least they do have community reps out there that try to smooth things out, I see one in that very thread and I saw one across a couple of threads on Xda during the defective dock issue and during the ICS update mess (took three updates to get it right). As an enthusiast I appreciate that, even though I know it does nothing for he average consumer who's never gonna find his way to that kinda resource.
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The A04US does not include the dock/keyboard or an ethernet port. The A01US does.
The A04US for some reason is more expensive. This is weird. Like you said maybe the A04US is made out of aluminum. Perhaps it's actively cooled like the W700 series instead of being passively cooled.
Edit: It the A04US is also wider and comes with Windows 8 Pro instead of just "Windows 8". It also has a TPM chip so my best guess is that the A04US is the enterprise model.
Chat with Samsung rep:
Please wait for a Samsung Agent to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Albert'. There will be a brief survey at the end of our chat to share feedback on my performance today.
Your Issue ID for this chat is LTK56401984396X
Albert: Hi, thanks for reaching out to Samsung tech support. How can I help you today?
Visitor: I'm I'm looking to buy a Samsung 700T Windows 8 Tablet, but there are two models.
Visitor: What is the difference between the XE700T1C-A04US and the XE700T1C-A01US?
Albert: I would be glad to assist you.
Albert: Thank you for the model numbers of the devices.
Visitor: The first is roughly $800 more expensive, yet they both appear to be the same.
Albert: I understand your concen.
Albert: I will provide you the information.
Albert: Would you mind holding a few minutes while I gather the required information for your request?
Visitor: Sure no problem. Take as long as you need.
Albert: Thank you.
Albert: Thank you for being on hold.
Albert: XE700T1C-A04US comes with Windows 8 Professional (64-bit)8 (64-bit) and comes with an extra docking station for keyboard and has all the features of a XE700T1C-A01US.
Albert: XE700T1C-A01US comes with Windows 8 (64-bit) and has all the features of XE700T1C-A04US but do not have an extra docking station for keyboard.
Visitor: I see, so the A01US does NOT come with the keyboard dock?
Visitor: And is just the tablet itself?
Visitor: Or do they both come with keyboards and the docking station you are speaking about is different
Visitor: This is the dock I'm talking about: http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/tablet-pcs-accessories/AA-RD8NMKD/US
Albert: Yes. You are correct. There will be a docking station on the XE700T1C-A01US.
Albert: But there will not be a specific docking station that is specially designed for keyboard.
Albert: You can use it for keyboard. That will allow you to use a keyboard.
Visitor: So the A04US comes with everything the A01US does, but it also includes an extra docking station for the keyboard?
Albert: Yes. You are correct.
Albert: But there is no dedicated docking station for keyboard in A01US.
Visitor: If it is not too much to ask, can you link me to the keyboard docking station?
Visitor: I just want to make sure that it is worth the extra $800 difference.
Albert: I see that Samsung does not fix the cost of the devices. Retailers will decide the cost of the devices. There will be internal hardware changes.
Albert: The changes will depend from retailer to retailer depending on the internal hardware changes.
Albert: If you wish I can provide you with the basic specifications of both the devices.
Visitor: So are you 100% sure that the A04US comes with the keyboard dock?
Albert: You have to purchase the Keyboard dock separately. But this feature is not available with A01US.
Albert: I apologize for the inconvenience. The keyboard dock is sold separately and you have to purchase it. This feature is not available with A01US.
Visitor: Alright thanks Albert.
You are now chatting with 'Albert'. There will be a brief survey at the end of our chat to share feedback on my performance today.
Your Issue ID for this chat is LTK56401984396X
Albert: Hi, thanks for reaching out to Samsung tech support. How can I help you today?
Visitor: I'm I'm looking to buy a Samsung 700T Windows 8 Tablet, but there are two models.
Visitor: What is the difference between the XE700T1C-A04US and the XE700T1C-A01US?
Albert: I would be glad to assist you.
Albert: Thank you for the model numbers of the devices.
Visitor: The first is roughly $800 more expensive, yet they both appear to be the same.
Albert: I understand your concen.
Albert: I will provide you the information.
Albert: Would you mind holding a few minutes while I gather the required information for your request?
Visitor: Sure no problem. Take as long as you need.
Albert: Thank you.
Albert: Thank you for being on hold.
Albert: XE700T1C-A04US comes with Windows 8 Professional (64-bit)8 (64-bit) and comes with an extra docking station for keyboard and has all the features of a XE700T1C-A01US.
Albert: XE700T1C-A01US comes with Windows 8 (64-bit) and has all the features of XE700T1C-A04US but do not have an extra docking station for keyboard.
Visitor: I see, so the A01US does NOT come with the keyboard dock?
Visitor: And is just the tablet itself?
Visitor: Or do they both come with keyboards and the docking station you are speaking about is different
Visitor: This is the dock I'm talking about: http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/tablet-pcs-accessories/AA-RD8NMKD/US
Albert: Yes. You are correct. There will be a docking station on the XE700T1C-A01US.
Albert: But there will not be a specific docking station that is specially designed for keyboard.
Albert: You can use it for keyboard. That will allow you to use a keyboard.
Visitor: So the A04US comes with everything the A01US does, but it also includes an extra docking station for the keyboard?
Albert: Yes. You are correct.
Albert: But there is no dedicated docking station for keyboard in A01US.
Visitor: If it is not too much to ask, can you link me to the keyboard docking station?
Visitor: I just want to make sure that it is worth the extra $800 difference.
Albert: I see that Samsung does not fix the cost of the devices. Retailers will decide the cost of the devices. There will be internal hardware changes.
Albert: The changes will depend from retailer to retailer depending on the internal hardware changes.
Albert: If you wish I can provide you with the basic specifications of both the devices.
Visitor: So are you 100% sure that the A04US comes with the keyboard dock?
Albert: You have to purchase the Keyboard dock separately. But this feature is not available with A01US.
Albert: I apologize for the inconvenience. The keyboard dock is sold separately and you have to purchase it. This feature is not available with A01US.
Visitor: Alright thanks Albert.
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heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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Any Core i5/i7 tablet is going to be actively cooled.
Chat with Samsung rep:
Please wait for a Samsung Agent to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Albert'. There will be a brief survey at the end of our chat to share feedback on my performance today.
Your Issue ID for this chat is LTK56401984396X
Albert: Hi, thanks for reaching out to Samsung tech support. How can I help you today?
Visitor: I'm I'm looking to buy a Samsung 700T Windows 8 Tablet, but there are two models.
Visitor: What is the difference between the XE700T1C-A04US and the XE700T1C-A01US?
Albert: I would be glad to assist you.
Albert: Thank you for the model numbers of the devices.
Visitor: The first is roughly $800 more expensive, yet they both appear to be the same.
Albert: I understand your concen.
Albert: I will provide you the information.
Albert: Would you mind holding a few minutes while I gather the required information for your request?
Visitor: Sure no problem. Take as long as you need.
Albert: Thank you.
Albert: Thank you for being on hold.
Albert: XE700T1C-A04US comes with Windows 8 Professional (64-bit)8 (64-bit) and comes with an extra docking station for keyboard and has all the features of a XE700T1C-A01US.
Albert: XE700T1C-A01US comes with Windows 8 (64-bit) and has all the features of XE700T1C-A04US but do not have an extra docking station for keyboard.
Visitor: I see, so the A01US does NOT come with the keyboard dock?
Visitor: And is just the tablet itself?
Visitor: Or do they both come with keyboards and the docking station you are speaking about is different
Visitor: This is the dock I'm talking about: http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/tablet-pcs-accessories/AA-RD8NMKD/US
Albert: Yes. You are correct. There will be a docking station on the XE700T1C-A01US.
Albert: But there will not be a specific docking station that is specially designed for keyboard.
Albert: You can use it for keyboard. That will allow you to use a keyboard.
Visitor: So the A04US comes with everything the A01US does, but it also includes an extra docking station for the keyboard?
Albert: Yes. You are correct.
Albert: But there is no dedicated docking station for keyboard in A01US.
Visitor: If it is not too much to ask, can you link me to the keyboard docking station?
Visitor: I just want to make sure that it is worth the extra $800 difference.
Albert: I see that Samsung does not fix the cost of the devices. Retailers will decide the cost of the devices. There will be internal hardware changes.
Albert: The changes will depend from retailer to retailer depending on the internal hardware changes.
Albert: If you wish I can provide you with the basic specifications of both the devices.
Visitor: So are you 100% sure that the A04US comes with the keyboard dock?
Albert: You have to purchase the Keyboard dock separately. But this feature is not available with A01US.
Albert: I apologize for the inconvenience. The keyboard dock is sold separately and you have to purchase it. This feature is not available with A01US.
Visitor: Alright thanks Albert.
Holy crap, the chat with 'Albert' there did nothing but make this twice as confusing as it already was. Is he saying there are two different docks? The keyboard we're expecting, and some lesser option (maybe the little stand the old S7 slate had)? Two keyboard variants? A tertiary dock for the slate+keyboard to combine with like a standard laptop dock? And vendors who've had the A01 up for preorder for a while have indicated the keyboard is included...
Wow, that whole chat session read like the old "Who's on first?" skit...
Yeah I'm also very confused right now. I ordered a W700 yesterday and it'll probably ship tonight. But I also noticed that Amazon has the A04US for about $1400, so $200 more expensive than the A01US that I have been waiting to buy for a long time. I want to cancel the W700 and get the A04US but I don't know what the differences are between the A01US that can justify the extra $200.
There is also another oddball that is the A03US and it cost $60 more than the A01US. No differences are listed but I'm guessing it's probably an upgraded pen or something.
My main concern is, how well would it run compared to my current laptop, the one it would replace? This is a minor spec comparison.
I'm currently running 4GB DDR3-1066. This Samsung runs 4GB DDR3-1600, so that's a clear (but minor) upgrade.
I currently have a 2.2ghz Core 2 Duo. Going down to a 1.7ghz Core i5 would be seen as a slight upgrade in most cases, except that this is ULV. I'm betting that I would lose some CPU performance, or at best, break even.
On the GPU side, I'm running a 1GB GeForce GT130m. The 130m is just a rebadged 9600 GT (mobile version), which in itself is basically an equivalent to the desktop GeForce 9400. Not a great card. The HD4000 would smoke it, with the primary limitation being dedicated memory.
Granted, I don't do high-end gaming on my current laptop, nor would I on a new one. But I like the option of being able to play some of the lesser demanding games. Get me a hybrid that is a little thicker, running Haswell quad-core, at least 6GB of RAM, and Intel's HD5000 or whatever they call it (or dedicated GeForce like the new iMAC or other ultrabooks), and it's a definite buy. Right now, I'd be spending $1,200 for a replacement to my 2009 laptop that cost me $647, but I'm more likely to lose performance than to gain it.
While I understand that the performance of the ATIV Smart PC Pro will be outstanding for a device of it's kind, and that the cost to performance ratio can not possibly approach that of a much larger laptop in the same price range, I still don't want to get one of these devices until it's a clear upgrade from the laptop I intent to replace with it.
Decided to do some searching. Passmark, not exactly my favorite benchmark in terms of reliability, was one of the few that I could find that had a comparison between the two relevant CPUs.
Passmark CPU Mark
Intel Core i5-3317U @ 1.7ghz: 3088
Intel Core 2 Duo T6600 @ 2.2ghz: 1419
So it more than doubled my laptop's CPU in terms of Passmark, but that's a sketchy benchmark at best. If anyone can find anything else comparing these two CPUs, I'd be pretty interested. I still don't see myself getting one of these devices until after my desktop mobo/cpu/ram upgrade and my wife's new iMac. But, these results did inspire some confidence at least.
Passmark CPU Mark
Intel Core i5-3317U @ 1.7ghz: 3088
Intel Core 2 Duo T6600 @ 2.2ghz: 1419
So it more than doubled my laptop's CPU in terms of Passmark, but that's a sketchy benchmark at best. If anyone can find anything else comparing these two CPUs, I'd be pretty interested. I still don't see myself getting one of these devices until after my desktop mobo/cpu/ram upgrade and my wife's new iMac. But, these results did inspire some confidence at least.
Two things. The new Intel chips really are that good. And new mobile chip speeds are chosen for the same reason older mobile chips speeds were chosen: to be fast enough and no faster, to save power. So the assumption should be that if the old stuff had adequate performance, then the new stuff will too because that is what it was made for
3rd gen Core i5 parts are significantly faster clock for clock than anything from the Core 2 era, I think you're underestimating how much of an upgrade it'd be Medion. The jumps from generation to generation have seemed smaller lately (~20%) but you're looking at something that's two generations removed, and the initial jump from C2D to first gen Core i series was even bigger. Anandtech's bench might have some equivalents to the parts you wanna compare, and lots more benches.
My only concern with it being a ULV part would be throttling of the CPU and/or GPU after a while, we've already seen over aggressive throttling on some ultrabooks that tank performance after 20 min. of stress testing... No harm in waiting to see what comes from Haswell tho, specially if you've got other upgrades in mind first. First gen of any kind of product always makes the most compromises. I'm on the same boat!
My only concern with it being a ULV part would be throttling of the CPU and/or GPU after a while, we've already seen over aggressive throttling on some ultrabooks that tank performance after 20 min. of stress testing... No harm in waiting to see what comes from Haswell tho, specially if you've got other upgrades in mind first. First gen of any kind of product always makes the most compromises. I'm on the same boat!
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I don't like to assume, I like to verify. Also, we're talking about a device made to compete with netbooks versus a device that I purchased a few years ago that was meant to be a baseline gaming system. If both devices were aimed at the same market, I'd have been ok with that assumption. But we're not going to compare this ATIV to a 2009 Alienware and assume that it MUST be faster because it's newer. Newer doesn't always equal better.
I understand that they are faster clock for clock. But, let's look at my Core 2 Duo T6600. It's 2.2ghz, Penryn, and 45nm. The desktop equivalent was Wolfdale, the E8xxx series. These were rated at 65w, compared to the T6600 being rated at 35W. Do you really think that these are equally as fast? And if so, then why even release the 65W version?
That's the point I was making. The 17W Corei5 is not as fast as a 35W version. If this were a 35W Core i5, it would have been obviously faster than my 35W Core2Duo. However, as an ULV part, we're not comparing apples to apples. That is why I had the degree of uncertainty (since alleviated with those benchmarks).
My point was that, are the clock-for-clock improvements enough to offset the loss in wattage and clock speed? It was a fair question at the time.
heatlesssun
Extremely [H]
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There really isn't a contest between a second or third generation Core i5 and a Core 2 Duo on the CPU side, the i5s are just much faster and more efficient. The only thing really lacking is the GPU and Haswell is supposed to double that by this time next year.
Lower TDP doesn't inherently mean lower performance, dunno why you're so focused on that. If it's throttling down due to poor cooling that's one thing, but chips with different TDP can perform the same if they're running at the same clocks and are of the same series... One could be built on a smaller process which allows for the lower TDP or it could simply be binned more aggressively. With newer parts it can also mean lower or less aggressive Turbo steps, etc.
I think the Penryn and the Wolfdale would absolutely be within 5% of each other if running at the same cocks for instance. Why have both? The Wolfdale was probably easier/cheaper to put out, better yields etc. The point is, the difference in clock speed doesn't even come close to the difference in IPC (between a C2D and a current gen part). Clock speed stopped being the biggest differential factor in performance when we went from Pentiums to Core whatevers.
P.S. The only way to figure out if the cooling is not up to snuff would be to stress test it, nothing in the specs would bear that out. Lower TDP doesn't inherently mean it shouldn't reach the speeds it's rated for, just means the cooling has to be spec'd to handle that TDP.
I think the Penryn and the Wolfdale would absolutely be within 5% of each other if running at the same cocks for instance. Why have both? The Wolfdale was probably easier/cheaper to put out, better yields etc. The point is, the difference in clock speed doesn't even come close to the difference in IPC (between a C2D and a current gen part). Clock speed stopped being the biggest differential factor in performance when we went from Pentiums to Core whatevers.
P.S. The only way to figure out if the cooling is not up to snuff would be to stress test it, nothing in the specs would bear that out. Lower TDP doesn't inherently mean it shouldn't reach the speeds it's rated for, just means the cooling has to be spec'd to handle that TDP.
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Yup, we know it's more efficient. And before the benchmarks, the question that I had was; Would the lower clock speed and lower wattage affect the performance? It's a legitimate question that a lot of people keep glossing over.
Bottom line is that a 17W i5 is not as fast as a 35W i5. And if it was, there would be no point in making the 35W chip. I've been talking about upgrading from a 35W C2D. Going to a 35W i5 would be a no brainer, straight upgrade across the board. But a 17w i5? It was premature to assume that it would be faster due to the lower clock speed and wattage. Thankfully, again, it has been benchmarked to some degree.
EDIT: Those same benchmarks list the 17W i5-3317U at 1.7 ghz being faster than a Core 2 Quad Q6600. Anyone care to assess that one?
Chips at the same clocks of the same generation will absolutely perform very very close to each other regardless of TDP man, unless one's rated to Turbo much higher or one's simply getting strangled by it's cooling solution (and it'd throttle to keep itself from cooking, not because there's some sorta performance cap).
I don't see why you're surprised it'd also outperform an ancient C2Q... Haven't we been seeing Intel's parts outperform AMD's in most scenarios while having less cores over the last couple of years? It's exactly the same principle, Intel has kept making more and more efficient parts with better IPC while AMD has actually gone backwards in some respects (Bulldozer getting beat clock for clock by older Phenoms, etc), basically throwing more cores in to make up the difference (which of course, only helps with well threaded software).
Edit: Hell, Intel has even put out lower TDP versions of it's desktop parts for HTPC or OEM use, denoted with an S or something at the end (think they've even done the same for Apple); and in those cases it's purely based on binning, no process improvement or any other sort of physical difference. It's the same as overclocking, some identical chips require more voltage to hit a given clock speed than others.
I don't see why you're surprised it'd also outperform an ancient C2Q... Haven't we been seeing Intel's parts outperform AMD's in most scenarios while having less cores over the last couple of years? It's exactly the same principle, Intel has kept making more and more efficient parts with better IPC while AMD has actually gone backwards in some respects (Bulldozer getting beat clock for clock by older Phenoms, etc), basically throwing more cores in to make up the difference (which of course, only helps with well threaded software).
Edit: Hell, Intel has even put out lower TDP versions of it's desktop parts for HTPC or OEM use, denoted with an S or something at the end (think they've even done the same for Apple); and in those cases it's purely based on binning, no process improvement or any other sort of physical difference. It's the same as overclocking, some identical chips require more voltage to hit a given clock speed than others.
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I appreciate the help that you've given me. However, there is a lot of speculation. My intent in asking my questions was not to say, "Hey, may ancient chip is faster," but rather, was to be certain that this chip would be faster given its other limitations (voltage, clock speed). Again, those were legitimate questions.
As for Passmark, it's not a legitimate benchmark in my eyes. It states that a single GTX 670 is faster than the GTX690, so I'm going to take its CPU results with a grain of salt as well. I don't see the Core 2 Quad Q6600 as being slower than the Core i5-3317U, but I would LOVE to be proven wrong if someone can show a more accepted benchmark.
For all we know, this benchmark was a short run, testing single-core performance before any thermal throttle was hit. In this case, it would have been 2.6ghz Ivy Bridge vs. 2.4ghz Kentsfield, and yes, the Ivy should win that benchmark by a small margin (and it did). Once it's throttled back to stock 1.7ghz, or lower, or if cores matter (4 vs. 2), the Q6600 would murder it. So again, I'd love to see a legitimate benchmark and not something like Passmark.
Anandtech's Bench section has a very wide variety of benchmarks for a lot of parts. I don't think there's a ton of laptops parts in the tool but I'm sure you can easily compare say, a C2D or C2Q and a 3rd gen Core i at similar desktop speeds, results would scale down similarly if you're trying to compare laptop equivalents that are simply running at lower clocks across the board.
If anything, newer parts scale their clock speed more efficiently. I'm not sure where else you can get direct comparisons, specially across laptops separated by years. You could always compare the scores in benchmark X of newer ultrabooks against whatever your current laptop gets.
If anything, newer parts scale their clock speed more efficiently. I'm not sure where else you can get direct comparisons, specially across laptops separated by years. You could always compare the scores in benchmark X of newer ultrabooks against whatever your current laptop gets.
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Oh, I'll definitely keep digging
I want a device like this eventually. Hopefully by the time that I am truly in the market (6-12 months), we see a Haswell-based system, at least 6GB of RAM, and maybe even a dedicated low-end GPU, similar to the GT 640m available in today's ultrabooks and the iMac.To be clear, I was just trying to point out that there's no reason a part with a lower TDP will inherently score lower if it's running at the same exact clocks, not trying to draw any overreaching conclusions about performance of any current CPU against what you've got. There's no magic fixed ratio behind TDP, clock speed, and IPC.
Benchmarks, like any app, have to be specially written to take extra cores into account, so you'll definitely find benchmarks that don't give the advantage to a part with more cores (pretty much any old game for instance). What you're probably not gonna find is a benchmark that takes thermal throttling into account. A well designed system shouldn't suffer massively due to heat, even tho we've seen it happen with some ultrabooks.
Unfortunately the only thing that bears that out is a reviewer specially testing for it tho. Putting a part with a TDP that the cooling system can't handle into a laptop or tablet is essentially not very different from trying to overclock with a stock heatsink, might start off okay but the wheels quickly fall off the wagon.
Benchmarks, like any app, have to be specially written to take extra cores into account, so you'll definitely find benchmarks that don't give the advantage to a part with more cores (pretty much any old game for instance). What you're probably not gonna find is a benchmark that takes thermal throttling into account. A well designed system shouldn't suffer massively due to heat, even tho we've seen it happen with some ultrabooks.
Unfortunately the only thing that bears that out is a reviewer specially testing for it tho. Putting a part with a TDP that the cooling system can't handle into a laptop or tablet is essentially not very different from trying to overclock with a stock heatsink, might start off okay but the wheels quickly fall off the wagon.