Samsung SA850 on PLS - the first review has been published (preproduction unit)

Bladestorm said:
I haven't had much time to test it...
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I have a test request for you Bladestorm, if you can spare the time and are willing to do so at some point:
I'd like to know whether the LED backlight on this shows flickering, which can be determined just using a long-ish camera exposure time. The procedure is outlined as method #2 here, and I've copied the relevant parts below. Tests at, say, 100%, 50%, and 0% brightness would be perfect.

By displaying a thin and white vertical bar on a black background and panning across the display during exposure, the light from this thin bar is spread across the frame with time. As long as the camera moves at a relatively constant velocity during a on-off backlight cycle (easy because it is short), the intensity values can be seen as waves on the image.
1. Set the exposure time to 1/25 second or so. Pre-focus if possible
2. Display a black image with a vertical white line 1-2 pixels wide.
3. Hold the camera perpendicular (looking straight at) the display, and trip the shutter while moving it parallel to the screen.

Example output for a CCFL display (cropped and cleaned up):
monitorcycles1b.png
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Thanks, and feel free to PM me if you have questions.
 
Bladestorm said:
243fgb7.jpg



I haven't had much time to test it, so this will be more of a teaser than anything else. My initial impression,.....................I love this monitor! The uniformity issue shown in the pre-production review is no longer an issue, at least not on mine. I also lucked out in that there are no dead/stuck pixels. I haven't calibrated it or even gone into the menu yet, but out of the box it looks great. Black levels seem better than my old HP LP2465 S-PVA. I tried out a couple of games and cannot detect any input lag, and ghosting is very, very minimal. I don't really notice it like I do on the HP. The AG coating is extremely light. Whites are white, and I cannot detect any of that crystalline effect.

My only complaint so far is that it does indeed have the typical white glow of IPS panels. Super PLS really is IPS with a different name.

Update: I spoke too soon. After playing a little bit of the game Limbo I can see some uniformity issues. Not as bad as in the review, but it's there. I'll have to try and take a picture of it. Also the black levels are not as good as my HP, close, but not quite there. Kind of disappointing, but again it's not calibrated.
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Very nice monitor :)

Im gonna wait for your review.

Anyone know when this screen is hitting europe? Havent found any shop in Holland that has them listed.
 
@Bladestorm: Could you please comment on how noticeably the IPS/PLS glow is (is it better/worse than other IPS monitors)? If you watch the screen showing a black image from ~2 feet straight on in a dark room, can you see any glow in the corners? What if you move off center? If possible, could you please post some pictures illustrating the effect?

Thanks!
 
how this monitor compare to the Asus PA246Q and dell u2410? which of these 3 is the best buy?
 
I tried out a couple of games and cannot detect any input lag, and ghosting is very, very minimal. ... The AG coating is extremely light. Whites are white, and I cannot detect any of that crystalline effect.
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That's all I needed to hear. Thanks for your thoughts.
 
My concern for this monitor is that according to the xbitlabs measurements it is neither sRGB native nor is it sufficiently extended for print work. It is likely going to lack colour space control which puts it firmly in the crowded "expensive monitor without commensurate electronic functionality" club.

But we'll see how this monitor's colour appears in person soon enough I'm sure.
 
I think i might just bite on this monitor so far the things you guys complained about i dont think i would notice it, and if i did i think i would get over it. I found a place that has it in stock right now. I really dont wanna spend 1200 on the zr30w even though i do want a 30" i feel like its time i try 16:9 since i been using 22" monitors forever.+

Also whats so bad about ips glow?
 
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insert said:
how this monitor compare to the Asus PA246Q and dell u2410? which of these 3 is the best buy?
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The U2410 and PA246Q are almost identical in terms of innards, with only the casing seeming to be different. Pick the one that is cheaper, or whichever seems to have better service presence in your area. My area has an Asus service centre close by so I'd get the Asus, but Dell always gives good support for their UltraSharp line, so that may work out better for you.

The S27A850D is only supported by the reseller and/or Samsung so I doubt it will have as good backing as the other two screens.

Also it doesn't have wide gamut judging from the XbitLabs review, so if that's a requirement I'd not bother with it.

Whoisthisreally said:
My concern for this monitor is that according to the xbitlabs measurements it is neither sRGB native nor is it sufficiently extended for print work. It is likely going to lack colour space control which puts it firmly in the crowded "expensive monitor without commensurate electronic functionality" club.

But we'll see how this monitor's colour appears in person soon enough I'm sure.
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I would probably say it is closer to being a straight sRGB screen versus wide gamut. The CIE 2D diagram from page 7 of that review seems to only show slight extension versus sRGB 2D representation, and definitely not nearly as high coverage as ARGB would require.

Also, being W-LED back-lit would make me strongly lean towards sRGB only.
 
insert said:
how this monitor compare to the Asus PA246Q and dell u2410? which of these 3 is the best buy?
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The Asus PA246Q and Dell U2410 have never been a good buy, so they cannot be the best buy. Stay away from them.
The nearest future will tell what kind of "buy" is the new Samsung.
 
Hey! I see it's finally out!

Are any professional sites going to do a measurement/review on this?

Anyway, to the new (lucky dog) owner, I'm most interested in:

Does it have the crystal effect?
Does it ghost more or less than a U2311H?
How does input delay compare to most TN?

Thanks!
 
^^^It's sold out at all the reputable places near as I can tell. It's reasonably priced compared to the competition.
 
alienate said:
The technology is the same; Samsung makes no secret of this. What did you read to ever think PLS is some sort of new break through technology?They tweaked enough things to avoid patent infringement, that is all.
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Can you give me a link where samsung says that PLS is an IPS clone?
If they tweaked enought things to avoid patent problem, how can this be a clone?

In any case, how can you judge a technology without reviews?
 
Well do all ips have this glow? or they are just calling it an issue on some of them? Is it something that comes with the nature of the beast?
 
sblantipodi said:
Can you give me a link where samsung says that PLS is an IPS clone?
If they tweaked enought things to avoid patent problem, how can this be a clone?

In any case, how can you judge a technology without reviews?
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Do you expect sammy to come out and say: Hey guys, we just made a major breakthrough and can now sell IPS panel clones, come and get them while they're still hot !

PLS behaves almost the same as IPS in areas such as: contrast, viewing angles, brightness, it even has the same glow as IPS. Here xbit has shown pictures detailing the pixel structure of PLS, and compared it to the other 3 technologies.

Satisfied now ?
 
The Samsung S24A850DW seems to be a bit more expensive than the Dell U2412M (~$480 vs ~$340). On paper both have very similar tech specs (same resolution, same contrast ratio, and so on). I wonder what advantage the S24A850DW has that will motivate the higher price? For me, I expect to see better panel uniformity, less IPS/PLS-glow, less backlight bleed, better "real world contrast ratio", or similar in the Samsung S24A850, otherwise I don't see the point of getting it instead of the Dell U2412M?
 
dowant120hz said:
my c-pva doesn't have problems like that
"ips glow" is caused exclusively by poor quality anti-glare coatings i think
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IPS glow is a trait of the technology. Off-axis light leakage exists in all LCDs as demonstrated by albovin's pictures, but the diagonal glow effect is IPS specific.
 
John2000 said:
The Samsung S24A850DW seems to be a bit more expensive than the Dell U2412M (~$480 vs ~$340). On paper both have very similar tech specs (same resolution, same contrast ratio, and so on). I wonder what advantage the S24A850DW has that will motivate the higher price? For me, I expect to see better panel uniformity, less IPS/PLS-glow, less backlight bleed, better "real world contrast ratio", or similar in the Samsung S24A850, otherwise I don't see the point of getting it instead of the Dell U2412M?
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Consider then how closely these models achieve 6500k/2.2 gamma using the OSD. My bet is that both of these will have problems.
 
albovin said:
??
This thread was started from the review.
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an half and non authorative review.
sincerely we can't call that a review to judge a new technology or quality of a new product.

Ephesos said:
PLS behaves almost the same as IPS in areas such as: contrast, viewing angles, brightness, it even has the same glow as IPS. Here xbit has shown pictures detailing the pixel structure of PLS, and compared it to the other 3 technologies.

Satisfied now ?
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obviously no. there are too many other "parameters" that we need to focus on to judge a technology similar to another.

From the link you posted, nothing where I can have a final idea on this tech, its clear that PLS solve one of the biggest IPS problem, the image blur/dirt/un-sharpness due to AG coating.
So if its true that PLS has similar performance on every aspect when comparing it to IPS, it will be a really better IPS and not a clone due to this "advantage".
 
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sblantipodi said:
an half and non authorative review.
sincerely we can't call that a review to judge a new technology or quality of a new product.



obviously no. there are too many other "parameters" that we need to focus on to judge a technology similar to another.

From the link you posted, nothing where I can have a final idea on this tech, its clear that PLS solve one of the biggest IPS problem, the image blur/dirt/un-sharpness due to AG coating.
So if its true that PLS has similar performance on every aspect when comparing it to IPS, it will be a really better IPS and not a clone due to this "advantage".
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What you're saying basically is that PLS is a different tech because it uses a different anti glare coating. That doesn't make much sense. My guess is that it will be like PVA vs MVA, not identical but extremely similar in characteristics. There really is nothing wrong with PLS being an IPS clone.
 
sblantipodi said:
an half and non authorative review.
sincerely we can't call that a review to judge a new technology or quality of a new product.
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Who are "We"?
You? :eek:
You have too little idea of the world of monitors to judge what is authoritative.
For you to know.
Xbitlabs is the father of all reviews.
 
Walker said:
What you're saying basically is that PLS is a different tech because it uses a different anti glare coating. That doesn't make much sense. My guess is that it will be like PVA vs MVA, not identical but extremely similar in characteristics. There really is nothing wrong with PLS being an IPS clone.
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You completely messed up what I said.
I said that you can't say that a technology is a clone of another one if it has similar contrast/brightness/viewing angles.
As far as I know there are others features that driven me to choose a technology instead of another.

What I said regarding the AG coating is that if it's true that PLS will have the same "performance" of IPS, PLS will be really better because it solves one of the biggest IPS problem.
 
Matte or glossy panel finish is not a part of LCD technology.
The first IPS (PLS) monitor made by Samsung has mild matte finish with minimal crystalline effect. That was expected and that is a plus.
 
Whoisthisreally said:
IPS glow is a trait of the technology. Off-axis light leakage exists in all LCDs as demonstrated by albovin's pictures, but the diagonal glow effect is IPS specific.
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PVA diagonal glow (from my 27" PVA review) vs PLS (IPS) diagonal glow (from xbitlabs review).

2dlm15g.jpg
 
albovin said:
PVA diagonal glow (from my 27" PVA review) vs PLS (IPS) diagonal glow (from xbitlabs review).
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You make a good point with the 2408. I was not disputing the fact that VA can have equal light leakage to IPS, just that in my experience VA can have leakage simply viewed from the side (any angle) rather than a diagonal dependence.
 
dowant120hz said:
my c-pva doesn't have problems like that
"ips glow" is caused exclusively by poor quality anti-glare coatings i think
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IPS has always had that glow, whether orange, violet or white, unless an A-TW polarizer is employed. Has nothing to do with coatings.

Walker said:
What you're saying basically is that PLS is a different tech because it uses a different anti glare coating. That doesn't make much sense. My guess is that it will be like PVA vs MVA, not identical but extremely similar in characteristics. There really is nothing wrong with PLS being an IPS clone.
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PLS is a different technology to avoid calling it IPS, associating it with Panasonic, LG, or Hitachi, and to avoid royalties. That's probably the cost savings :D

sblantipodi said:
You completely messed up what I said.
I said that you can't say that a technology is a clone of another one if it has similar contrast/brightness/viewing angles.
As far as I know there are others features that driven me to choose a technology instead of another.

What I said regarding the AG coating is that if it's true that PLS will have the same "performance" of IPS, PLS will be really better because it solves one of the biggest IPS problem.
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I'm not trying to ridicule you here, but:

PLS is the single most important piece of technology solving the single most overblown problem of IPS.

Neat-o.

Whoisthisreally said:
You make a good point with the 2408. I was not disputing the fact that VA can have equal light leakage to IPS, just that in my experience VA can have leakage simply viewed from the side (any angle) rather than a diagonal dependence.
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It depends. S-PVA has more variables associated with this. The S-PVA panel in my 2709W was exemplary with this and matched on and off-angle black level performance of my A-TW polarized NEC, so it's not 100% true and not 100% false, but case-by-case.
 
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