serious career blessing/problem

B

big daddy fatsacks

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 10, 2001
Messages
2,312
first the fantastic news. i was just offered a job i interviewed for last week. it is with a great company doing IT consulting work with the federal government (i live in DC so i'm not aware that any other type of work actually exists ;) ). in any case the place sounds great, and i'd be doing C&A work which is new to me, but fits with me trying to get more into infosec.

in any case, all's not well in mudville. they offered me the job today (2/15) but they want me to start on 2/27. by my calculations that does not allow me to give my current employer the customary 2 weeks notice. this is actually really important because i am the only IT person at this place. if i leave they have no systems administrator at all. plus i think my boss likes me a lot and would be a great reference in the future when i need one. i'd hate to flush that down the toilet.

so, is there any thing i can do to remain on good terms while still taking the job? i mean is the 2 days that big of a deal? i would obviously be available after hours for any major problems if they did not have someone in my place the day i left. and when i took this job the guy before me had already been gone a couple of days as well. so this situation is not entirely new to them.
 
Be straight up with your boss man. Anyone would understand if you were moving up in the world. It will be no big deal. As for the 2 weeks, I'm not too sure. Let him know the date the company wants you to start by. He may be understanding / he may not be. Then its up to you to make a decision.
 
You could also talk to your new employer. I would say something along the lines of "Out of the same courtesy and respect you would expect, I need to give a full two week notice."
 
MorfiusX said:
You could also talk to your new employer. I would say something along the lines of "Out of the same courtesy and respect you would expect, I need to give a full two week notice."
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yeah this is the same sort of thing my dad just told me. let them know i accept the job, but would really like to push the date back a week out of concern for my current employer. i'm going to reiterate that to them right now.
 
thanks guys. i was panicked a bit there. they didn't make an issue of it. they pushed my start date to march 6th.

now the problem is how do i go into my current boss' office and say "i'm very sorry to leave such a great job, but i'm moving on." without a look on my face that says "woohoo! i just won the lottery!!!!!!!" hahahahahahaa
 
if he's a good boss he should understand:

a. you weren't going to work for him forever

b. he will be happy that you''re "moving on up"
 
t00thless said:
if he's a good boss he should understand:

a. you weren't going to work for him forever

b. he will be happy that you''re "moving on up"
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nah, my boss will go into panick mode. somewhere she'll understand and be happy for me, but not until after she loses her mind.
 
big daddy fatsacks said:
yeah this is the same sort of thing my dad just told me. let them know i accept the job, but would really like to push the date back a week out of concern for my current employer. i'm going to reiterate that to them right now.
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Yeah good call, and let your current boss know ASAP. If she has a problem, unplug the email server and take a long lunch.
 
just waiting to get the offer letter via email so i can sign it and fax it back before i go tell my boss. hopefully i can have this sealed up by the end of the day today. champagne with dinner tonight!!!
 
Type up a letter of resignation. Use that to break the ice with your boss. (I just did almost the exact same thing about six months ago)
 
MorfiusX said:
Type up a letter of resignation. Use that to break the ice with your boss. (I just did almost the exact same thing about six months ago)
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good advice. i was just going to go talk to her, but i guess that's the more professional way to do it.
 
Any advice on getting work with the govt?

<- that's my career goal eventually
 
Kaos said:
Any advice on getting work with the govt?

<- that's my career goal eventually
Click to expand...

1. Get contacts.

or

2. Get a Secret clearance.

or

3. Learn some Solaris.

or

4. Get a bachelor's degree.

or

5. Join the military for a few years.
 
Two things to put into perspective. They are on the selfish side but the truth nonetheless. I went through the same thing and don't regret it at all.

#1 It is your boss's fault, not yours -- for putting the company in that type of situation( where if you leave they are screwed).

#2 If you already have this newer, better job lined up, it won't tarnish your resume at all because hey, it is a newer and better job afterall right?
 
Just tell your current boss if he's got a problem to take it up with the government
 
in reality you dont actually need to give two weeks notice. you can just leave. if you go tell them your leaving and give them notice they have no obligation to keep you. they can just tell you to leave.

but in good professional care it is always nice and wise to give notice. i hope all works well for you.
 
DONT burn any bridges. you never know when it will bite you in the ass.

Government work isnt all its cracked up to be, beleive me. Most if not all gov employee's, civilian employee's that is, are sespicious as hell of contractors. They think you are there to take there job. Beleive me some of them should be canned.

Most dont give a shit, because they wont and dont get fired. All it takes is to file a complaint with the union and voala that little write up that was in your file is gone.

I have been working as a contractor for the DoD doing active directory migrations for about 3 years. I have had Civilian employees set me up for failure. I have had them lie blatenly to my face and to my gov boss about me. Some of them wont even talk to you in the hallway, give you dirty looks. maybe my situation is confined to the area I work but I dont think it is.

The government needs to contact more work out. Most Government IT peeps are not worth their weight. But there is alway's exceptions to the rule. Some are ok.
 
I went through a similar situation, but reversed, about 18 months ago. Went from consultant for a Consulting company to head of a one-man IT shop for an oil company. The oil company was losing their IT guy and wanted somebody ASAP. In the end, everyone will always appreciate it if you stick to your guns about 2 weeks notice. It's one of those GoldenRule things.

I used the Geico gag with my old boss that evening (we had a strange relationship) when I notified them.

Me: "Boss, I got good news and bad news..."
Boss: -sigh- "What's the bad news?"
Me: "I'm taking a position at another company."
Boss: "But... But... ... ... What's the good news?!"
Me: "I just saved a bunch of money by switching to Geico..."

The look on the guy's face was priceless.
 
yeah, the deal is done.

@ LoStMaTt: it doesn't matter what my resume shows. i put in a lot of effort here convincing these people i'm "the greatest thing since sliced bread" (quote from my boss this morning) and if i screwed them over they're never going to tell that to anyone else.

but anyway, i got the 2 weeks so it's all a moot point. thanks for all the advice. i'll prolly be posting another thread later today regarding this job opening so keep your eyes peeled if you're in the DC area and looking for a job.
 
J said:
Most if not all gov employee's, civilian employee's that is, are sespicious as hell of contractors. They think you are there to take there job. Beleive me some of them should be canned.
Click to expand...
Only some? :confused:

I have had Civilian employees set me up for failure. I have had them lie blatenly to my face and to my gov boss about me. Some of them wont even talk to you in the hallway, give you dirty looks.
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A friend of mine was (briefly) a contractor in a government shop. The union employees all kept a large jug of pennies on their desks....every time a contractor got a call, the people near him would shake their jugs as loudly as possible, making it impossible for him to hear. Some of them would even throw pennies at the contractors every time their back was turned.

Truth is stranger than fiction.
 
I told my previous employer that during the time I had left with the company, I'd help them find a replacement for me or a good company to come in and do consulting. That smoothed things over pretty well. The thing they are usually most worried about is who is going come fix things when they break. And they knew that no one knew what they required better than I did, so it took a big burden off their shoulders.

Dont agree to find someone before you leave, but agree to start looking and helping them. It might take more than 2 weeks to find someone.
 
i told them they shouldn't feel at all pressured to bring someone on. they should find the right person regardless of the time it takes. i'll help interview, and if there is a gap between when i leave and the new guy comes on they can always call me.
 
Well then it sounds like you've done all you can do. Hopefully, for their sake, they wont get pissy with you. This is as positive as the situation could possibly be for them given the fact that you're leaving....not all companies are lucky enough (or treat their employees well enough) to have someone in a position like yours give them the courtesy you're extended to them.

Best of luck to ya.
 
big daddy fatsacks said:
i told them they shouldn't feel at all pressured to bring someone on. they should find the right person regardless of the time it takes. i'll help interview, and if there is a gap between when i leave and the new guy comes on they can always call me.
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maybe even offer to introduce the new guy to the network and the current architecture in place? What current problems exist, what runs smoothly, etc... Any documentation you can provide him with as well....

I don't know, these are all things I would do if I was leaving a company like this and dropping the load on the person filling the position
 
I just got done with two job interviews and I expect results sometime next week. Keeping my fingers cross cause I really need to have health and benefits which I get absolutely none right now.
 
Just curious....

What's the pay range for this job you're leaving?


..surely I'm not the only one that's curious.
 
Working on getting my Top Secret with Poly....woah what a pain in the rear.

But if I get it I should be good to go as far as pay scale and job security :D


versello said:
1. Get contacts.

or

2. Get a Secret clearance.

or

3. Learn some Solaris.

or

4. Get a bachelor's degree.

or

5. Join the military for a few years.
Click to expand...
 
well if anyone here is going to apply for the job i'd really be doing this place a disservice disclosing the amount i make. if you want to apply for the position then PM me and i'll tell you where to send the resume and salary requirements. here's the job description:

GENERAL:
Responsible for managing all aspects of the organization’s computer operations. Performs IT-related strategic planning; assesses organization’s processes and needs, and pursues new developments in software and hardware that will improve or enhance existing operations. Develops long-range goals and plans for the organization’s computer systems and networking infrastructure. Responsible for all aspects of IT security. Lead technical support for staff. Coordinates staff training on hardware and/or software as needed. Performs all network and system administration functions, such as maintaining organization’s networking infrastructure, e-mail system, file and print servers, and association management database. Evaluates, supervises and provides training to IT interns. Performs other duties as assigned by the Director of Administration.


SPECIFIC RESPONSIBILITIES:

A. Operation:

1. Manages Windows 2000/2003 Active Directory network, including file & print servers, application servers, logon scripts, access rights & permissions. Manages additional servers running OpenBSD. Troubleshoots all networking/LAN issues, including TCP/IP connectivity.
2. Develops long-range goals and plans for IT systems. Coordinates with departmental Directors to align IT strategic planning with business needs and goals.
3. Develops and implements security policy. Ensures confidentiality, integrity, and availability of IT systems. Educates users on their roles and responsibilities in network security. Analyzes logs for signs of intrusion.
4. Maintains firewall, remote access, and Internet usage and monitoring rule sets. Monitors and analyzes logs.
5. Arranges orientation and training, and provides troubleshooting support for all staff on Windows 2000XP platforms. Supports efforts using MS Office XP (Word, Excel, Access, Outlook, and Powerpoint); Macromedia Homesite; Adobe PageMaker, Photoshop, Acrobat, and Illustrator; Microsoft Terminal Server; and all other software.
6. Maintains and monitors performance of e-mail system, including filtering SMTP relay on Barracuda Spam Firewall and back-end MS Exchange 2000 server.
7. Performs daily data back up of all critical data. Maintains up-to-date anti-virus software on all computer equipment.
8. With the Director of Administration, prepares yearly computer department budget and makes recommendations to resolve problems or improve operations. Ensures daily operations stay within budget.
9. Maintains Windows Terminal Server remote access server. Ensures consistent and appropriate availability of services for all staff.
10. Assists Convention Services department for all meeting needs, such as badge generation, registration lists, and on-site technology needs.
11. Performs routine analysis and troubleshooting of problems with online AMS system. Assists in all aspects of Web site as needed.


B. Maintenance:

1. Maintains basic systems operation manual, and documents all aspects of the network. Maintains inventory of all hardware and software, and ensures compliance with software licensing agreements.
2. Supervises IT Assistant in resolution of routine hardware maintenance problems and general help desk support.
3. Monitors and analyzes server event logs daily. Performs periodic tests to identify and correct errors. Schedules and performs routine maintenance procedures.
4. Monitors system performance, and performs periodic housekeeping procedures to optimize system efficiency.
5. Keeps all software updated and patched as needed. Tracks security issues for all implemented software daily.

C. Development:

1. Maintains and expands computer procedures manual and system documentation.
2. Develops long-range goals and plans for the organization’s computer systems and networking infrastructure. Continually improves the system application and utilization including procedures, equipment, and training required for effective system operation.
3. Tracks developments in information technology and makes recommendations for organization when appropriate.
4. Ensures written computer security and usage policy is accurate, up to date, and implemented. Assists Director of Administration in incident handling.
 
I know this doesn't matter in this situation, but in pretty much any larger company i've worked for, they wouldn't give an employee 2 weeks if they fired them, so there is no reason to give them 2 weeks when you are leaving.
Advanced notice is nice, but you are off by 2 days, that shouldn't bother anyone.
 
mobiux said:
in pretty much any larger company i've worked for, they wouldn't give an employee 2 weeks if they fired them
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In every large corporation I know, notice given when laying off a person ranges from two weeks to six months or more. Now, if you're fired for cause, that's a different story totally. But in that case, you shouldn't expect notice anway.
 
masher said:
In every large corporation I know, notice given when laying off a person ranges from two weeks to six months or more. Now, if you're fired for cause, that's a different story totally. But in that case, you shouldn't expect notice anway.
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I does vary from industry to industry though. In the finance world it is very common to be "escorted out" within hours of turning in a letter of resignation even if you've given two weeks in your letter. The theory being that the place you are leaving wouldn't want you to take any customers with you. ("Well, I can give you a much better deal if you wait two weeks and call me at my new number...")

 
i don't know how you people handle your careers, but to all the people suggesting "to hell with them" it's a bit ridiculous. as masher pointed out, being fired and being given a severance when being laid off are 2 different things.

i know there are some young people just getting started in their careers here so i'll offer some advice. there seems to be an attitude among some respondents that "they wouldn't do the same for me so i should just stick it to them." but the flaw in that logic is that i'm only "sticking it" to one person by leaving without giving decent notice- myself. i'm the one who is taking all the hard work i've put in over the past 2 years which got me to the point where these people think i'm a great employee and are sad to see me go, and i'm flushing that down the toilet.

now, there is a lot of "well you got a new and better job so who cares. you have no need for these people anymore." that is not a good way to look at your career in the long term. statistically speaking i am unlikely to retire with the new company given that i'm only 29. this means i'm going to be getting a new job someday and i'll need people at my back saying we worked with this guy and he was the man. i would hire him in a second. his farts smell like roses, and his balls are huge. so it is always good to remain on good footing with people you work for.

and it's not for their sake. it's for your own. in any case, most of you were right in saying that no one should really require you leave your current employer short like that. and this new company didn't make me do that in the end.

now, on the being 2 days off thing. you are probably right about that mobiux. they probably shouldn't care . . . if the situation were different. in a larger outfit my presence would not have such an impact. i'd be just one cog in the machine and it would continue functioning at a marginally lower efficiency without me. but in this case i'm the whole damn machine, not just a cog. without me they have absolutely nothing. email goes down on the day i leave and there is no one here that is going to be able to bring it back up.

in any case i think there are 2 things to take from this situation:
1) if you are put in this spot and you want the job then say this is great. i accept the job. now let's see if we can't do something about pushing my start date back by a week so i can give my employer the customary 2 weeks notice. any reasonable employer will give this to you.
2) if the people do not allow you the 2 weeks then you should be suspiscious of the company, and ask yourself if you really want to work for a place that treats people like this.
 
big daddy fatsacks said:
2) if the people do not allow you the 2 weeks then you should be suspiscious of the company, and ask yourself if you really want to work for a place that treats people like this.
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Ding Ding Ding! Correct.

Congrats btw. Your job description looks cut and pasted from the same book we got ours from :D, just replace Barracuda with SurfControl and add in Cisco Core Routers/Switches
 
The only way I would ever walk out on an employer with little or no notice is if I was treated like crap as an employee. I did that once. I gave the two weeks notice, and they started treating me even crappier than I'd been treated before - giving me horrible tasks that I'd never had to do before (someone else had always done it) and going out of their way to make me miserable, and actually endangering my health a few times along the way. So I washed my hands of them and revoked my two weeks and quit on the spot. They weren't expecting that. It was quite satisfying.

But if your employer treats you well, treat them with respect and give them the two weeks notice. You never know...you might need that job back again someday, or be interested in working for another company started by people in the company you quit. Your reputation is just as precious as the amount of money you bring in, and sometimes the former can influence the latter. Word of mouth tends to spread quickly, especially among the upper end of the hierarchy (P/VP/CEO/CIO/etc). In this business if you have a bad reputation and your hiring manager has half a brain, he/she will not hire you.
 
Boscoh said:
You never know...you might need that job back again someday, or be interested in working for another company started by people in the company you quit. Your reputation is just as precious as the amount of money you bring in, and sometimes the former can influence the latter. Word of mouth tends to spread quickly, especially among the upper end of the hierarchy (P/VP/CEO/CIO/etc). In this business if you have a bad reputation and your hiring manager has half a brain, he/she will not hire you.
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TRUTH++++

your reputation and credibility in the IT industry (and almost any industry) is probably the most important thing you carry. Your work, research, etc will decide how much money you make and whether you will be successful in life or not
 
Your best bet is to advertise it on a real job listings directory.

So far I haven't seen anyone get a job after a job announcement was posted here.
 
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