SFF HTPC Build Help

D

dbaz

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Jul 5, 2012
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Hello Everyone

i am looking to build my first SFF computer. it will be used just as an HTPC for movies and TV shows.
i would do overclocking just for fun.
never have gotten into computer gaming, so wont be doing any of that.

i just bought a 3570K and now need to get the rest of the system.
main components needed would be the motherboard, RAM, and Heatsink & Fan. i am insterested in a self contained water cooling system such as the H80.

for the motherboard, i think im pretty much set on ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe. i prefer ASUS boards.
i have had several Gigabyte boards and have ended up returning all of them, most came DOA or wouldnt post. so my luck with them hasnt been too good.

i recently bought a EVGA GT 640 to put in my old HTPC motherboard, but it caused to many problems being that its an old system. also have a X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Sound Blaster.

i dont have to use those parts, if it would be better to use the 4000HD built in or the on board sound.
i would just put them in another computer.

for cases, i really like that new fractal 304 and the lian-li Q16, Q02, Q03, Q07, and Q11. the SG06 and SG08 arent bad either. it really only needs to hold an SSD, i have a file sever to hold all the files.

memory, i have been buy G.Skill recently and havent had any problems, but i am open to anything.

i would like to get a slim blueray drive but dont have to have one.

Below is the completed questionnaire.

Thank you for your time and help.


1. What will you be doing with this PC? HTPC/Playback, Web browsing, Overclocking (for fun)

2. What's your budget? Under $1000
Are tax and shipping included in this budget? Yes
Is your budget flexible? Kinda
Is cost a driving factor in component selection? Not Really

3. Where do you live? Florida
Do you have any big B&M (brick and mortar) computer chains nearby (e.g. Microcenter, Fry's, etc)? Best Buy, CompUSA, main will buy from Newegg, Amazon, forum members if possible

4. What exact parts do you need for that budget? RAM, Case, PSU, HSF/Watercooler, Slim Blu Ray

5. If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Mid ATX Tower for now, older PSU (dont have specifics right now), bluetooth keyboard, EVGA GT 640, Creative SB PCI Express X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro Series

6. What specific features do you need in a motherboard?
Gigabit Ethernet - Required
SATA 6Gb/s - Rerquired
Bluetooth - Wanted
USB 3.0 - Wanted
WiFi - Not Needed but is ok

Which is more important, size of the system or having the particular feature? Size

7. What resolution output do you need? 1080p and higher
Do you need multiple monitor output? Prefer

8. Does this system need to fit into a particular space? Not Really the smaller the better. Might move it to a rack later in life.

9. How comfortable are you with custom case design/modification and electrical wiring? Fine
What tools do you have (Screwdrivers/Leatherman, Drill, Dremel, Metal snips, Soldering Iron, Bending Brake, CNC/Welding machines/Plasma cutter, etc...)? Have most can get access to the last 3.

10. How important is the noise/silence of this sytem? Very important, as silent as possible.
HTPCs typically want to be quiet while all-out SFF gaming rigs don't care. - Dont plan on gaming

11. How mobile does this system need to be? Doesnt
Need a carrying handle or carrying straps? Nope

12. Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? Yes
If yes, what OS? Windows 7
Is it 32bit or 64bit? 64

13. When do you plan on building/buying the PC? Within a week or so

Thanks for the help!!
 
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Find out what older PSU you have as some older PSUs are pretty crappy and would not be usable for a new PC.
 
dbaz said:
for cases, i really like that new fractal 304 and the lian-li Q16, Q02, Q03, Q07, and Q11. the SG06 and SG08 arent bad either.

8. Does this system need to fit into a particular space? Not Really the smaller the better. Might move it to a rack later in life.
Click to expand...

I see you've looked at cube cases, but if you are going without GPU, are you also interested in a more traditional HTPC case that looks more like a HiFi component?

I'm not recommending these cases per se, but in terms of looks, for example:
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=84&area=en
http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/produc...316&cl_index=1&sc_index=26&ss_index=68&g=spec
 
Danny Bui said:
Find out what older PSU you have as some older PSUs are pretty crappy and would not be usable for a new PC.
Click to expand...
here is a picture of the sticker on it.
im sure its not that great. what would you suggest as a new one?

images
 
WiSK said:
I see you've looked at cube cases, but if you are going without GPU, are you also interested in a more traditional HTPC case that looks more like a HiFi component?

I'm not recommending these cases per se, but in terms of looks, for example:
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=84&area=en
http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/produc...316&cl_index=1&sc_index=26&ss_index=68&g=spec
Click to expand...
yes i dont mind the HTPC case look.
my ultimate goal however is to move it all out of the living room and into a closet.
so the other ones i were looking at were a rackmount type. the PC-C32, etc.

the other reason for the cube was if i moved it to the bedroom after removing all the entertainment center stuff.
 
i just bought the P8Z77-I Deluxe.
should have the 3570K and motherboard on thursday.

what do you guys recommend for RAM?
ive been mainly buying gskill lately.

is it worth it to get the higher clocked ram? 2133 or 1866?
or just go with 1600?

here are some i just picked out: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...04-351^20-104-351-TS,20-233-280^20-233-280-TS

would it be better to use the internal HD4000 or to use the GT 640?
ive been looking for some comparisons but havent found too many yet.
 
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Yeah that PSU is a piece of crap. I recommend this replacement PSU if the ITX case doesn't have a good PSU:
$75 - SeaSonic M12II 520 Bronze 520W Modular PSU

As for the case, you're planning on an ITX mobo so it really doesn't make much sense to get an ATX case like that Lian Li PC-C32. I would rule out the Lian Li Q16 and Q02 since the included PSU is more than likely crap. Since you're planning on overclocking, that basically rules out the Silverstone SG06, Fractal Design 304, Lian Li Q03, Q07, and Q11. I would take a look at the Lian Li PC-Q08, Silverstone SG08, or the BitFenix Prodigy if you're really serious about overclocking.

RAM wise, I recommend this Corsair set:
$40 - Corsair Vengeance CML8GX3M2A1600C9 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM

Current Intel platforms do not benefit from going higher than DDR3 1600 RAM in real world apps and games. As for the GPU, use the HD 4000. Only use the GT 640 if the HD 4000 doesn't cut it for you.
 
Danny Bui said:
Yeah that PSU is a piece of crap. I recommend this replacement PSU if the ITX case doesn't have a good PSU:
$75 - SeaSonic M12II 520 Bronze 520W Modular PSU

As for the case, you're planning on an ITX mobo so it really doesn't make much sense to get an ATX case like that Lian Li PC-C32. I would rule out the Lian Li Q16 and Q02 since the included PSU is more than likely crap. Since you're planning on overclocking, that basically rules out the Silverstone SG06, Fractal Design 304, Lian Li Q03, Q07, and Q11. I would take a look at the Lian Li PC-Q08, Silverstone SG08, or the BitFenix Prodigy if you're really serious about overclocking.

RAM wise, I recommend this Corsair set:
$40 - Corsair Vengeance CML8GX3M2A1600C9 2 x 4GB DDR3 1600 RAM

Current Intel platforms do not benefit from going higher than DDR3 1600 RAM in real world apps and games. As for the GPU, use the HD 4000. Only use the GT 640 if the HD 4000 doesn't cut it for you.
Click to expand...
right the only reason for the c32 was for one that was like a normal HiFi component, that i could then move to a rack in the future.

overclocking would just be for fun and something to do.
i wouldnt be doing anything that would actually benefit from it.

the main thing i dont like about the q08 is the fan in the front. i prefer the more smoother clean front face.
the sg08 isnt bad.

what about the sg06 with the 450 ps with it?
would the 520 be really necessary? the only thing i in vision being in it is a 1 SSD and a DVD or Bluray drive.

for the RAM, would it be worth it for the 1.35V version?
would there be a real benefit for getting it?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...33-199^20-233-199-TS,20-233-186^20-233-186-TS

thanks for your help!!
 
dbaz said:
overclocking would just be for fun and something to do.
i wouldnt be doing anything that would actually benefit from it.
Click to expand...
You're still overclocking though which means more heat and therefore you really should be paying extra attention to the cooling of the case.
dbaz said:
what about the sg06 with the 450 ps with it?
Click to expand...
Not too bad.
dbaz said:
would the 520 be really necessary? the only thing i in vision being in it is a 1 SSD and a DVD or Bluray drive.
Click to expand...
A 520W PSU isn't necessary. That Seasonic just happens to be the cheapest modular PSU that I'm willing to recommend.
dbaz said:
for the RAM, would it be worth it for the 1.35V version?
would there be a real benefit for getting it?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...33-199^20-233-199-TS,20-233-186^20-233-186-TS
Click to expand...
Not really .
 
Danny Bui said:
Since you're planning on overclocking, that basically rules out the Silverstone SG06, Fractal Design 304, Lian Li Q03, Q07, and Q11. I would take a look at the Lian Li PC-Q08, Silverstone SG08, or the BitFenix Prodigy if you're really serious about overclocking.
Click to expand...

Danny, that's the second time today that you've suggested that it's only possible to overclock in a Prodigy. Can you explain your reasoning please? What leads you to assert that it's easier to move 26 liters of air than 10 liters?
 
WiSK said:
Danny, that's the second time today that you've suggested that it's only possible to overclock in a Prodigy. Can you explain your reasoning please? What leads you to assert that it's easier to move 26 liters of air than 10 liters?
Click to expand...

Well first and foremost, I didn't actually say "it's only possible to overclock in a Prodigy". I did list two other cases out and I didn't exactly say you can't OC with those other cases. Second, while yes you can OC inside any of the cases listed, the three cases I mentioned for overclocking are best suited for overclocking since they cool the CPU better. I'm using this Bit-tech review to justify my recommendations for the SG08 and Bitfenix Prodigy over the Fractal Design 304:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2012/09/19/fractal-design-node-304-review/3
 
So it's not your personal experience. I'm wondering about the value of a test which uses the Zalman CNPS 8900 low-profile cooler, and only overvolts to 1.3V. That's not much extra heat to dissipate, and sub 60C is fine if that's as far as you want to go. The thing I find difficult about those reviews is that they try to use the same hardware for each review, in order to compare apples to apples. But cooling in small form factor is often about using the right tools for the right job. Anything smaller than 20 liters and you can't fit a chunky air cooler anymore, but it doesn't mean you should always go back to a blow-down-onto-the-motherboard type. In some cases CLC is better and some like the SG08 just go for big airflow. Each case you need to solve this differently, which means you can't take a simple chart showing case A is better than case B by exactly 5C and then draw the conclusion that you won't be able to reach higher volts in case B.

:)
 
Danny Bui said:
I would rule out the Lian Li Q16 and Q02 since the included PSU is more than likely crap.
Click to expand...

The PSU that Lian Li uses for these are the FSP300-60GHS. They are the same PSU used in the base 300W models of the Silverstone SG05 and SG06. They are not anywhere near crap, and indeed are quite decent PSUs.

HWS FSP300-60GHS Power Supply Review
Conclusions
Hardware Secrets Golden Award

FSP300-60GHS performed well during our tests, presenting high efficiency up to 84.4% and really being able to deliver 300 W.
Click to expand...
 
Zap said:
The PSU that Lian Li uses for these are the FSP300-60GHS. They are the same PSU used in the base 300W models of the Silverstone SG05 and SG06. They are not anywhere near crap, and indeed are quite decent PSUs.

HWS FSP300-60GHS Power Supply Review
Click to expand...

I stand corrected.

EDIT:
WiSK said:
So it's not your personal experience. I'm wondering about the value of a test which uses the Zalman CNPS 8900 low-profile cooler, and only overvolts to 1.3V. That's not much extra heat to dissipate, and sub 60C is fine if that's as far as you want to go. The thing I find difficult about those reviews is that they try to use the same hardware for each review, in order to compare apples to apples. But cooling in small form factor is often about using the right tools for the right job. Anything smaller than 20 liters and you can't fit a chunky air cooler anymore, but it doesn't mean you should always go back to a blow-down-onto-the-motherboard type. In some cases CLC is better and some like the SG08 just go for big airflow. Each case you need to solve this differently, which means you can't take a simple chart showing case A is better than case B by exactly 5C and then draw the conclusion that you won't be able to reach higher volts in case B.

:)
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that would make it extremely hard and extremely time consuming to tailor the build to the case itself. Not to mention that you would basically be telling the reader that you can only attain those temperatures by buying the exact parts we're using. The apples to apples comparison takes a lot less time to do, easily replicated, and still provides enough information to make a case decision on.
 
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Danny Bui said:
Not to mention that you would basically be telling the reader that you can only attain those temperatures by buying the exact parts we're using.
Click to expand...

That's what they already are telling the reader. Those charts actually show "the temps you get with this hardware" but what the reader seems to take away with them is "these are the temps you'll always get in this enclosure".

Danny Bui said:
and still provides enough information to make a case decision on.
Click to expand...

Well no, which was exactly my point. You are advising people that they shouldn't overclock in an SG06 based on a review which uses an inappropriate CPU cooler, only overvolts to 1.3V and still gets under 60C. Do you see what I mean? Then better no chart than a misleading chart :)
 
WiSK said:
Well no, which was exactly my point. You are advising people that they shouldn't overclock in an SG06 based on a review which uses an inappropriate CPU cooler, only overvolts to 1.3V and still gets under 60C. Do you see what I mean? Then better no chart than a misleading chart :)
Click to expand...
I see what you mean but I have to disagree with it. I don't see it as that misleading to the point where no chart is better.
 
thanks for the info!!
got the P8Z77-I Deluxe last night.

now onto the cooler.
i am interested in trying out the self contained water cooling systems and have been reading about the antecs and corsairs. the H80 seems to be the one people recommend over the H60 and the 920 appears to be equivalent to the H80. which one do you guys recommend? or is there another one i should consider?

my ultimate goal is quietness. would it be better to go with one of these water setups or the standard heat sink and fan? if hsf, which one?

for memory, im still stuck between white and the blue corsair. mainly which one would look better with the blue asus board.
thoughts?
 
As I suggested in my discussion with Danny, I can't really advise an appropriate cooler until you've made a decision about the case.
 
Mac Truck said:
if you're only gonna be using it for movies and TV shows you could've saved a shit-ton of money and gotten an AMD Trinity

the 5700 is now available for retail and has a 65W TDP
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113289
Click to expand...
yes i could have, but wheres the fun in that.
for me its more of getting something that will last.
my current setup is over 8yrs old an amd X2 with ddr400 and it can still play 720p movies and some 1080p movies.

for memory i went with the low voltage white version, as i think it will look better with the blue asus board and im not sure how the blues would match and if it would look weird or not.

back to case discussion, i think i would want to get one with a slim optical drive so i could get a slim blueray drive.
the likely hood of me ever using it is very slim, but i think it would be nice to have just in case.
can anyone recommend a slim blueray drive?
 
ok ive narrowed the cases down to the node 304, sg08, and the q11.
thoughts?
 
yeh.
im just torn between whether or not i need the PCI expansion slots for a dual card as well as if i want the slim optical drive option.

all its going to hold is 1 ssd drive, so i dont need the hard drive space of the node 304. i like the look of that one the best but it doesnt have an optical drive.
 
yeh i really like the 304, but dont need the hard drive space.
im actually thinking about getting one and redoing my server and putting it in one of those.
im told that i need to have a drive option, so thats also removing that case from this build.
know of any lga 775 mitx motherboards?

so now im trying to decide on the sg08, q11, and q3.
i saw a sg08 in the for sale section so im awaiting a reply to see if its still available.
 
well my SG08 is on its way.
now i guess its time to figure out what im going to do for cooling.
 
my SG08 arrived today!!
the C12P should be here tomorrow.

now on to power supply.
im not really liking this spaghetti mess of a power supply.
what do you guys recommend?
can the sg08 take a sfx power supply? i am considering the silverstone st45sf-g
or maybe one of the fanless seasonics.
i would like a full modular one.
the only thing thats going to be in there is the p8z77-i deluxe, 3570k, ssd, and a couple of fans.
i would think a 300 would be sufficient, correct?

for the ap181, does anyone know of anyother 180mm fans?
all of the silvestones are 3 pin, hoping to find a pwn one.
if i remove the ap181, what are people using to cover up the switch hole in the back of the box?
 
Last edited:
the main thought behind the fan was to try and find a pwn one, thats all really.
the ap181 has a high low switch and only a 3pin. was hoping to find one that was a little more controllable, since i was going to be using as a cpu fan like you suggested.

for the power supply, i was hoping to find one that was full modular as i only need the 24 pin and 8 pin and 1 sata. i dont need a pcie power cord.
what about this seasonic ssr450rm?
is the silverstone st45sf-g no good?
 
Download the Asus Fan Xpert software for your motherboard, the AP181 can be temperature controlled quite satisfactorily with that utility :)

The only reason that I don't recommend the ST45SF-G is that some people have found it noisy. You can fit a full ATX, so there's no need to spend more for something that might disappoint.
 
well i just bought a whole bunch of sleeve from MDPC yesterday. it shipped as well so hopefully will get here next week sometime. went with a black and blue setup.
grandbleu-small-01.jpg


so now to finally wrap up this power supply.
i know you keep recommending the M12II, but it has that PCI-E cable hardwired which i dont need.
what are your thoughts on the SSR-450RM?
it seems to be the newer model line of the M12II. the 360W version seems to have received some pretty good reviews on Hardware Secrets and JonnyGURU

edit: and now to add another option, the SSR-550RM, is actually cheaper than the 450 and has a rebate.
 
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