Sony Disappointed By "Low" PS4 Review Scores

[HardOCP News]

Honestly, if I was this guy, I wouldn't worry about low review scores as much as I would all the problems people have been having with their launch consoles. The day before launch Sony pegged hardware failures at .4%, then came the avalanche of reports from customers having a wide variety of issues. Low review scores are the least of the company's problems if these issues persist.

Sony president of Worldwide Studios Shuhei Yoshida is disappointed by the PlayStation 4's "low" software review scores, but he does not think the critical marks will have an adverse effect on the system's launch.

 

[Deleted member 174368]

They've sold 1 million in 24 hours. That's nearly twice as much as the next best selling console. Even if only 1% are defective (which would be pretty standard for electronics), it's gonna be a lot of people complaining, which is why it seems so widespread.

 

[pcjunkie]

I have a feeling the XBone is going to have more issues than the PS4 launch did. Keep pointing fingers while you can because its going to be MS turn shortly. All new console generations have teething problems at first.

 

[AaronP]

They've sold 1 million in 24 hours. That's nearly twice as much as the next best selling console. Even if only 1% are defective (which would be pretty standard for electronics), it's gonna be a lot of people complaining, which is why it seems so widespread.

Not to mention how many bullshit public reports there will be from trolls, XO Fanboys, and dubious marketing people.

 

[AaronP]

Also to apply some math to this, as previously mentioned a 1% hardware failure is expected. Well if they sold 1 Million units that's 10,000 failed consoles, and I do not believe I've seen 10,000 individual complaints yet.

 

[Q-BZ]

They've sold 1 million in 24 hours. That's nearly twice as much as the next best selling console. Even if only 1% are defective (which would be pretty standard for electronics), it's gonna be a lot of people complaining, which is why it seems so widespread.

Exactly. A little perspective, folks.


I also expect XB1 to perform well on sales as well. People are itching for something new. (At least console only gamers.)

 

[Quartz-1]

A failure rate of 0.4% still means 4000 defective consoles out there. How difficult would it have been for them to have a stock of replacements and arrange a next-day replacement service?

 

[Q-BZ]

A failure rate of 0.4% still means 4000 defective consoles out there. How difficult would it have been for them to have a stock of replacements and arrange a next-day replacement service?

I'm wondering if sales exceeded demand and would account for this.

I don't think I could have found the biggest Sony fanboy on the planet a week ago and have them sign off on a prediction of a million units sold in 24 hours.

 

[Q-BZ]

I'm wondering if sales exceeded demand and would account for this.

I don't think I could have found the biggest Sony fanboy on the planet a week ago and have them sign off on a prediction of a million units sold in 24 hours.

I meant to say "exceeded expectations." That makes more sense. I really wish we could edit posts in this area.

 

[pcjunkie]

A failure rate of 0.4% still means 4000 defective consoles out there. How difficult would it have been for them to have a stock of replacements and arrange a next-day replacement service?

Pretty difficult at first if your trying to make as many as possible and sell every single one at launch...will probably have out of stock issues for a while. I imagine MS will the same issues at first. Also who is going to do next day replacement and eat that cost with thousands of units...nobody!

 

[caddys83]

I have a feeling the XBone is going to have more issues than the PS4 launch did. Keep pointing fingers while you can because its going to be MS turn shortly. All new console generations have teething problems at first.

I don't recall the Sega Genesis or SNES ever had issues issues during the launch?

 

[Semantics]

Also to apply some math to this, as previously mentioned a 1% hardware failure is expected. Well if they sold 1 Million units that's 10,000 failed consoles, and I do not believe I've seen 10,000 individual complaints yet.

How could you see every individual complaint, the issue is that it's a QC failure, they have failing consoles out of the box instead of a month down the line. Failure rate is due to creep up in ensuing months. As it's not dependent on just failures out of box but less then expected life span of the product.

 

[Tak Ne]

"Sony president of Worldwide Studios Shuhei Yoshida is disappointed by the PlayStation 4's "low" software review scores, but he does not think the critical marks will have an adverse effect on the system's launch. "

Translation: We dont understand how everyone doesn't think the PS4 is as good as our marketing department says it is but we still expect the gullible fools (our dear customers) to buy loads of our shiny locked-down PCs.

 

[Space_Ranger]

I don't recall the Sega Genesis or SNES ever had issues issues during the launch?

The internet back then wasn't nearly as predominant as it is now. On Day 1, the SNES sold approx 300k consoles. I'm sure there were approx. 1200 defective consoles, we just never heard about it because the times were different back then.

 

[Youn]

I don't recall the Sega Genesis or SNES ever had issues issues during the launch?

Me neither, even my original gameboy is still kickin... but I guess those consoles were not here in the US first - they previously had some time (2 years for NES, 1 for Genesis) in japan to sort out any initial bugs.

now, it would be interesting to see some real failure-rate stats on all consoles... anyone got that info?

 

[Youn]

The internet back then wasn't nearly as predominant as it is now.

lol, that too... internet is a quick way to vent frustration, back then you just went back to the store for an exchange then skipped along happily to the car with mom

 

[pcjunkie]

The internet back then wasn't nearly as predominant as it is now. On Day 1, the SNES sold approx 300k consoles. I'm sure there were approx. 1200 defective consoles, we just never heard about it because the times were different back then.

I may have come off like I'm anti XBone but I'm not. All electronics have small to big issues and especially new generations, so to speak. That includes quality Control issues at times. It happens but the finger pointing gets to be ridiculous in the Internet age!

 

[Setan]

The internet back then wasn't nearly as predominant as it is now. On Day 1, the SNES sold approx 300k consoles. I'm sure there were approx. 1200 defective consoles, we just never heard about it because the times were different back then.

This right here. We're in an age where one guy can have a problem, he can post it all over social media, all gaming media outlets pick up on it and the rumors start getting crazy.

It has to be a PR nightmare for any company releasing a high profile product.

 

[amdgamer]

The internet back then wasn't nearly as predominant as it is now. On Day 1, the SNES sold approx 300k consoles. I'm sure there were approx. 1200 defective consoles, we just never heard about it because the times were different back then.

Not only that, but consoles used to be much more simple back in those days. There were no moving parts and the OS environments were nowhere near the complexity of today.

 

[ballistic90]

Not all issues are detectable within a day of having console. The "Red Ring of Death" problem of the first Xbox 360s took time before they started popping up.

I'd expect if either console had major issues like that this generation, I'd think we'd see something coming up between 2 weeks to 6 months of the consoles being out. I don't know if I expect a major hardware failure this generation.

 

[Ashbringer]

The internet back then wasn't nearly as predominant as it is now. On Day 1, the SNES sold approx 300k consoles. I'm sure there were approx. 1200 defective consoles, we just never heard about it because the times were different back then.

So we're going by 1990 standards in defects? But it's ok, cause we have the internet and news spreads faster then HIV on a nymphomaniac. We just never knew about the failure rates until now.

I still have my original 1989 Sega Genesis with Sega CD, and that thing turns on just fine. It's not even the same thing as me owning a Xbox 360. When I was a kid that Genesis was running non stop, and me being a dumb child I abused the thing like crazy. Not like today where my Xbox 360 is rarely used , and my games go straight into a jewel case to prevent damage.

But we all know why the PS4 is just a pile of junk, which is the same reason why the Xbox One will be as well. They're both made in China, with cheap components, and solder that easily melts from heat. As much as people want to complain about ventilation on game consoles, my Sega Genesis never needed a lot of room to circulate air.

It also doesn't help that the machines have heat sinks that are barely able to cool the damn things. Look at your desktop PC which has these giant copper heat sinks that do an amazing job cooling it down. Even if they did use cheap solder, my PC is so well cooled that it doesn't matter. I can even shove it against the wall and slow down ventilation, but it'll never get hot enough to weaken and break solder joints.

If you don't a heatsink like this in the PS4 or Xbone, then it will eventually fail.

But no you have this aluminum crap which is what usually cools the north bridge chip of desktop PCs.

 

[HardOCP News]

Apparently there are a TON of complaints from verified PS4 owners on Amazon. Sony can say what they want, but 30% - 40% of the comments are from verified buyers, all saying their PS4 failed.

 

[LurkerLito]

I am a verified Amazon PS4 owner, and I have no issues at all, but because I have no issues I also have no reason I want to post a good review as it really is too early to review. The problem with all the initial reviews is that the ones that have issues will be the first to put up a bad review to hopefully vent their frustrations, while people with positive experiences generally will wait to review.

 

[flatrock]

So we're going by 1990 standards in defects? But it's ok, cause we have the internet and news spreads faster then HIV on a nymphomaniac. We just never knew about the failure rates until now.

I still have my original 1989 Sega Genesis with Sega CD, and that thing turns on just fine. It's not even the same thing as me owning a Xbox 360. When I was a kid that Genesis was running non stop, and me being a dumb child I abused the thing like crazy. Not like today where my Xbox 360 is rarely used , and my games go straight into a jewel case to prevent damage.

But we all know why the PS4 is just a pile of junk, which is the same reason why the Xbox One will be as well. They're both made in China, with cheap components, and solder that easily melts from heat. As much as people want to complain about ventilation on game consoles, my Sega Genesis never needed a lot of room to circulate air.

It also doesn't help that the machines have heat sinks that are barely able to cool the damn things. Look at your desktop PC which has these giant copper heat sinks that do an amazing job cooling it down. Even if they did use cheap solder, my PC is so well cooled that it doesn't matter. I can even shove it against the wall and slow down ventilation, but it'll never get hot enough to weaken and break solder joints.

If you don't a heatsink like this in the PS4 or Xbone, then it will eventually fail.

But no you have this aluminum crap which is what usually cools the north bridge chip of desktop PCs.

Most commercial electronics are assembled in China these days. Sony, like other companies having their products assembled there are likely to provide a lot of oversight due do pas problems with someone taking a bribe to switch out quality components with cheaper versions. That was happening a lot n number of years ago, but has become a lot more rare after the Chinese government caught, tried, and executed some of the individuals involved in such scams.

If your components are getting hot enough to melt the solder on the leads, the components are likely to fail far before the solder melts, especially now that they have been forced to use tin solder.

Problems due to soldered components tend to be more related to poorly heated solder or solder applied to cold components rather than solder melting in an otherwise working system. In general heating up the solder would just make the joints more flexible and less fragile rather than weakening them. Weak solder joints are usually the result of the solder not adhering to cool contacts when the solder is applied.

Consoles can get away with smaller heat sinks because they use chips designed for laptops. And don't worry about your CPU or GPU melting the solder. The chip would fry itself before it got that hot. Tin solder melts around or above 215 deg Celsius.

 

[RedStarSQD]

"I may have come off like I'm anti XBone... " gee, I wonder why people think you are anti xbox one ?

as far as failure rates go ..it is certainly shaping up to be something much more egregious than .04%

It will be interesting when sony releases the actual failure rate a few weeks down the road.

I remember when MS was saying the failure rate was as expected and reports of the failure were way over blown. Well, we sure know how that turned out.

But in this case...I think that story of sabotage is gaining more legitimacy... as these failures are bricked systems... very much unlikely given the quality control in place.

 

[Ashbringer]

Consoles can get away with smaller heat sinks because they use chips designed for laptops. And don't worry about your CPU or GPU melting the solder. The chip would fry itself before it got that hot. Tin solder melts around or above 215 deg Celsius.

Most laptops have similar problems due to this issue. Over time the solder melts and hardens, and does this over and over. At some point it collects dirt and begins to disconnect. The Xbox 360's red ring of death didn't happen immediately, but takes a lot of use before the solder disconnects and causes this issue.

HP which has a lot of problems with cheap solder, are going through hell. Part of the problem is cheap solder, but the other is lack of cooling. A lot of laptops have a single copper pipe that runs along the CPU and northbridge chip, that eventually goes to an aluminum heat sink with a fan on it. But because they put some strange rubber thermal pad that acts as a spacer, it limits the heat flow from the northbridge. Eventually one day you turn on the laptop and it won't turn on, cause repeated use has weaken the solder and disconnected the northbridge chip, which is also the GPU. It's the repeated heating and cooling that kills the solder joints. That's why on Xbox 360's or laptops that nothing is wrong when you're using the device and shut it off, but when you come back later to turn it on when it cooled, then you notice it won't turn on.

The CPUs are rated to work up to 85C, so laptops are allowed to run that hot, but the solder needs to be able to withstand that heat as well. BTW, the southbridge chips on laptops usually have no cooling. These chips are identical to the ones on desktop motherboards, but at least they get a small aluminum heat sink in desktop computers. If your wifi cuts out on your laptop, it maybe due to weak solder joints from the south bridge chip.

That's why when I get a laptop I usually get a cheap copper shim from Ebay for like $1 and replace the stupid thermal pad on the northbridge chip. I also put a small ram heatsink on the southbridge chip with thermal glue. I give a damn about warranty, which is only about a years worth.

 

[DarkStar_WNY]

I have a feeling the XBone is going to have more issues than the PS4 launch did. Keep pointing fingers while you can because its going to be MS turn shortly. All new console generations have teething problems at first.

Sorry to interrupt your fanboy rant, but even if MS's release crashes and burns how exactly does that excuse Sony for any of their problems?

 

[VladDracule]

This thread should be locked, there is absolutely no discussion going on about review scores

 

[WaltC]

I don't recall the Sega Genesis or SNES ever had issues issues during the launch?

Q: With the launch of the oldest consoles, what was the nearly instantaneous global feedback mechanism in play at the time?

A: None

In 1988 in Japan at the console's launch, and again in 1990 at its European, and later, its North American shipping releases, the Internet had yet to really boom and take off. (Boom began in 1995, imo.)

That's why you didn't "hear" very much--about anything, really. We had racks of gaming magazines of all descriptions, though, but even the most up-to-date of those could only boast a three-month lead time (that is, if your mag's info was only three months old when it hit the presses and you either bought it from the newsstand or it came in the mail, you could count that mag as being in the upper echelon of reliable newsworthiness. Most of the mags regularly ran four-to-six months behind.)

Besides there being nothing analogous to the Internet at the time, the total console/computer-gaming market in 1990 was very, very small compared with the size of those combined markets today. I'd be surprised if it was 1/10th the present size of those combined markets globally.

Need I say more?...

 

[Youn]

Need I say more?...

I think you need to say it again, but this time with jazz hands and maybe throw in a few jump splits

 

[Bill86]

They've sold 1 million in 24 hours. That's nearly twice as much as the next best selling console. Even if only 1% are defective (which would be pretty standard for electronics), it's gonna be a lot of people complaining, which is why it seems so widespread.

That and everyone not complaining is too busy playing for a comment

 

[Pieter3dnow]

"It's disappointing but I don't think it's worrisome for the launch of the system. I've played through all of our games, Killzone, Knack and Resogun, and I totally enjoyed playing through these games," Yoshida said. "I'm now on my second run of Knack and Resogun at a higher difficulty--these games really grow on you when you play more. I'm very confident that once you purchase these games and play, you'll be happy that you've done so."

But would he admit if they all sucked .

I have some trouble with the whole cheer leading attitude of some of these companies. 1st you make the console for the consumer to like. If for whatever reason they don't then improve but don't become just another internet drama queen.

 

[Nenu]

This is about the 'software' review scores.
I bet the BF4 debacle features strongly.

 

[mesyn191]

Exactly. A little perspective, folks.

Generally 3-5% hardware failure is considered "normal" FWIW.

If it turns out failure rates are a bit over that I'd consider that not good but not something to blow up over.

If it turns out failure rates are at X360 RRoD levels (~25%) then that would be pretty bad but it'd hardly doom PS4/Sony and might not even damage their brand much so long as they went about fixing the issue and RMA'ing things quickly. X360 still sold well after that mess and the PS4/Sony has great PR/brand respect right now. Arguably better or significantly better than Xb1/MS.

If it turns out 30-40% failure rates are real...than that might very well be disastrous for Sony if they don't fix the issue super quick. Like within months. Which is very difficult to pull off if its an issue they don't already know about and have a fix nearly ready right now. Which is pretty unlikely.

It'll be interesting either way to see how things pan out.

 

[rudy]

A failure rate of 0.4% still means 4000 defective consoles out there. How difficult would it have been for them to have a stock of replacements and arrange a next-day replacement service?

Finalizing sales is the most important thing, most people who have a defective unit will not return it and buy and xbone. For sony they just want to hold on to sales position over anything else. Its just like if you are selling a car, you know every sale do not close before the customer walks out very likely will not return.