Sony screws over Europe

First off, this is a better solution in the long run.
At least sony told them before having people find out after their purchase.
It will still play 80% of games initially with over 90% expected later.

It allows for easier updates to enhance the PS2 game visuals/etc 720p High def!. Sony announced they were moving to a software solution MONTHS ago. We all knew this was coming sooner or later, even to later US revisions.

PS3 will be quieter, less prone to breaking.

Initially peoples knee jerk reaction will be like yours. But this isnt out of the blue and it is a good thing ultimately.

German link about the positives of this that every anti-sony article conveniently doesnt include.

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/85781
 
Theres only so much you could emulate in software. I think the hardware emulation would have been a better route. I think sony just bombed it this generation.
 
Conker said:
Theres only so much you could emulate in software. I think the hardware emulation would have been a better route. I think sony just bombed it this generation.
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uh...no

But then by your logic MS really bombed this generation with it's backwards compatiblity didn't it?

Guess you never heard of the PC emulation scene? Well if you have the actual people who truly know the hardware inside and out, they can make it fully compatible and better looking like Xbox360's solution.
 
I was just thinking about games like NG: Black and Halo 2 which actually look better on the 360 than the original Xbox. This might not necessarily be bad. I'm sure the list of backwardly compatible games would go way down...but if the more popular games are improved, that's a trade-off I wouldn't mind.
 
If people think about it, Sony already offers PS1 classics on the PSP right?

THey run basically the same OS as the PS3. They obviously already have gotten their software emulation pretty well down. While it may not be 100% compat out of the box, its going to be more than a majority of games compatible. With lots more potential since it is a software solution.
 
Netrat33 said:
uh...no

But then by your logic MS really bombed this generation with it's backwards compatiblity didn't it?

Guess you never heard of the PC emulation scene? Well if you have the actual people who truly know the hardware inside and out, they can make it fully compatible and better looking like Xbox360's solution.
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lol ofcourse i know of pc emulation. I also have used them before a lot and they may work good to a certain extent but it won't ever be like a real system where u can throw any game at it and it will work. Always has to be updated. To me sony just lost it though this gen. The sales numbers and systems in stock shows that the system is falling to 3rd place. Its alittle early to call a winner but right now it doesn't look that great.
 
Conker said:
lol ofcourse i know of pc emulation. I also have used them before a lot and they may work good to a certain extent but it won't ever be like a real system where u can throw any game at it and it will work. Always has to be updated. To me sony just lost it though this gen. The sales numbers and systems in stock shows that the system is falling to 3rd place. Its alittle early to call a winner but right now it doesn't look that great.
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You know the sales numbers really aren't that far off from the xbox360 for sales in the U.S. And that's without PS3's heavy hitters. So they are definately not out of the game.

Next question: Have you ever played xbox games on xbox360? (going to assume this so we move forward) Yes you have! They play perfectly on it. They have a dedicated team making sure the emulation is spot on and the list grows extremely fast.

On PC it's basically opensource. They aren't working 40 hours a week (for free) trying to find out why X game doesn't work on PC with the thousands of configurations either. And the teams and budget are a lot smaller too.
 
On the bright side...you guys get "Casino Royale" while North America was given the extremely crappy no matter what resolution "Talledega nights" :p
 
Dunno, I rather liked Talladega nights... ;p

IMO, I think the companies deserve a little slack (but not too much) when it comes to BC/software emulation. I mean yeah, small teams of people put out excellent emus (a lot of very, very good ones like ePSXe, ZSNES, etc), and you'd expect more out of a company that has no reverse-engineering handicap.

Then again, when you consider tiny incidents like Star Ocean 3 not running on older PS2s because it used updated dev libs, its a lot of effort to ensure BC.
 
If this means less cost for hardware then its a good thing. I think the majority of users don’t use backwards compatibility, and the games that sold over a million copies are most likely to have backwards compatibility anyways. Really I see no reason for anyone to get over dramatic about this. It doesn’t really deserve a "Sony screws over Europe" headline.

A lot of people were more angry that Sony decided to include a hardware option for backwards compatibility for the initial batch of PS3's, citing the reason increased cost.

Actually I think this quote from Ars sums it up
Welcome to Ars:

Last month: "If only Sony would remove EE+GS and be more like the 360! We don't care about PS2 games! We'd get better resolutions and scaling in software anyway!"

This month: "How dare they move to software!"

Sony said upfront this was going to happen before they even launched, so I don't see why all the boo-hooing is going on now.
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How you could ever consider this a good news article for Europe is beyond me.

Sony has announced they are intentionally reducing backwards compatibility and jacking up the prices beyond the US prices (to $750 USD avg for Europe) . What a great way to sell more consoles! This will create a larger install base! Thanks Sony for f***ing over all of Europe!

Sad thing is, Sony fans have been hoping for a good Euro launch, which it seemed set to accomplish, then Sony goes and does this. Ive said it once Ive said it twice, Sonys worst enemy is Sony.

Although, in all honesty, I should be pleased at this. As a Nintendo stock owner, this just makes me more and more bullish on my position. In short, I blv I can summarise on behalf of all Wii fans and Ntdoy/Ntdof owners,

All your bases are belong to us!
 
Michael.R said:
If this means less cost for hardware then its a good thing. I think the majority of users don’t use backwards compatibility, and the games that sold over a million copies are most likely to have backwards compatibility anyways. Really I see no reason for anyone to get over dramatic about this. It doesn’t really deserve a "Sony screws over Europe" headline.

A lot of people were more angry that Sony decided to include a hardware option for backwards compatibility for the initial batch of PS3's, citing the reason increased cost.
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I'd agree if it meant lower costs for consumers, but all this means is lower costs for *Sony*. In fact, Europe gets a *higher* price ($750) than the US while receiving less for their money.

I agree in principle that emulation is the way to go, both because it's cheaper and because it should allow for upscaling and AA to be applied to older games (as the 360 proved), making them look better. The practice, though, is that emulating these old games is *tough* to do, and if MS as a software company has had a problem getting the majority of their games BC, you can bet that Sony will have it worse. As the press release said, "a LIMITED number of PS2 games" will be compatible. That's not a good sign.

The only question *I* have is this: When will this take effect for US consoles? My guess is that the hardware shipped around the same time frame (maybe shortly thereafter) will follow suite in the US and Japan, as it just doesn't make sense from a manufacturing standpoint to be building two wildly different configurations for different regions.

I do think this is a move that's hypocritical on Sony's part (they bashed MS pretty furiously for the same technique for Xbox 360), but MS in particular should look at it as a compliment. It's Sony's admission that Microsoft was right and Sony was wrong from the get-go in this area.
 
While I don't think it's an "OMG DOOMED" move, I do think it's an UNFAIR one. We Europeans are already paying more for it, now we have one less feature compared to the US/Japan.
 
DragonMasterAlex said:
I'd agree if it meant lower costs for consumers, but all this means is lower costs for *Sony*. In fact, Europe gets a *higher* price ($750) than the US while receiving less for their money.

I agree in principle that emulation is the way to go, both because it's cheaper and because it should allow for upscaling and AA to be applied to older games (as the 360 proved), making them look better. The practice, though, is that emulating these old games is *tough* to do, and if MS as a software company has had a problem getting the majority of their games BC, you can bet that Sony will have it worse. As the press release said, "a LIMITED number of PS2 games" will be compatible. That's not a good sign.

The only question *I* have is this: When will this take effect for US consoles? My guess is that the hardware shipped around the same time frame (maybe shortly thereafter) will follow suite in the US and Japan, as it just doesn't make sense from a manufacturing standpoint to be building two wildly different configurations for different regions.

I do think this is a move that's hypocritical on Sony's part (they bashed MS pretty furiously for the same technique for Xbox 360), but MS in particular should look at it as a compliment. It's Sony's admission that Microsoft was right and Sony was wrong from the get-go in this area.
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The consumers for sure won’t see the benefit in the short term. Sony will save $27 per console by taking the chips out. So I don’t think it will cause Sony to reduce the price in the short term, but it should allow them to have a price drop a couple months before then they would have, had they not taken it out. At least that makes sense to me. This will have saved them millions before the next price drop, which I would hope would mean that those of us who are waiting will see a lower price sooner.
 
$750? I heard it's going to be 599 Euros which is $788.5 at todays exchange rate. Of course as Sony would say they are still undercharging you, and you should be happy to work longer hours to buy one. I'm sure it will be so popular Jack Tretton would be willing to pay you 1,200 Euros if you can actually find one on store shelves in Europe.
 
BladeVenom said:
$750? I heard it's going to be 599 Euros which is $788.5 at todays exchange rate. Of course as Sony would say they are still undercharging you, and you should be happy to work longer hours to buy one. I'm sure it will be so popular Jack Tretton would be willing to pay you 1,200 Euros if you can actually find one on store shelves in Europe.
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Almost $800usd....ouch.:eek: Is there really enough people in the UK/Europe with that kind of cash laying around for what is basically a combo videogame machine/glorified dvd player? The US price is too high to qualify as an "impulse purchase" but near $800 will make even the most diehard Sony fans throw up in their own mouths a little..:p
 
The Wii is costing them as much as a Core PS3 costs us here. Pretty bad all around
 
The sooner they bring on Backwwards Compatibility with better AF+AA and upconversion to 720p or higher for PS2 (and please please please PS1) is the sooner this thing gets to the top of my want to buy list.

I'm too lazy to look and see who said 'most users aren't concerned with backwards compatibility' in a previous reply, but I don't know what they are smoking. BC is a huge plus, and added benefit BC is a huge boon in my opinion. it cleans up my entertainment center, frees up inputs and outlet plugs, etc.

The day the 360 BC list encompassed all the xbox games I might potentially play, was the day my Xbox went in the games closet. I would love the PS3 to provide a similar service, because my friend was playing through my library of old PS2 titles on my 34" XBR last night, and I'll be damned if I didn't think they look like shit.

So, if software emulation means breaking some compatibility with old obscure titles so that the games I do want to play look better, I'll take it.

I'm aware that nothing is promised, but hopefully it's a stepping stone. I would look at this as positive news, personally.
 
Kahnvex said:
I'm aware that nothing is promised, but hopefully it's a stepping stone. I would look at this as positive news, personally.
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I don't look at this as positive because it's an obvious profit ploy by Sony.

They soundly bashed MS for their software emulation decision for BC, and for good reason. When the 360 launched, the BC was pretty bad.

Sony just announced this, I doubt they've been working on it for that long since the console just launched. With the enormous catalog of PS2 games and Sony's routine abuse of its customer base, I am very skeptical of how many games will be properly emulated when it launches in the EU.

In short, if Sony gave a shit about their customers, they would continue to make PS3s with hardware BC and slowly transition to software BC through updates and after the software emulation was sturdy and proven, transition away from PS3s with the EE chip. Obviously, that's not what they're doing.

With that said, Shadow of the Colossus in 720p would kick some serious ass. It might even be enough to get me to buy a PS3.
 
Well, I agree with most of your thoughts. I was just playing the devils advocate as someone who is standing outside the fire. I decided not to jump in on this one as an early adopter.

So by eschewing the need to be one of the cool kids ;) I'm basically going to get the best of both worlds no matter what they (Sony) do because I'm waiting until the games I want are out, the price is where I want it, and all the quirks are hopefully unkinked.

I got my fair share of first run disappointment with my 360, so I wasn't about to hop up and jump back in, especially considering the cost of entry with PS3. The 360 came around and wound up being an awesome purchase for me, I'm sure the PS3 will be too, eventually.
 
It's incredible...the people who were slamming Microsoft for going with software emulation are in here, predictably spinning this as a positive thing for the Playstation 3.

Reality is going to set in eventually. What reality? The fact of the matter is that the Playstation 2 had a far larger library than the Xbox and Microsoft, a company that is known primarily for their software, still has problems with flawless emulation. What makes all of you so sure that Sony, a company with far less software development experience, is going to do a good job with a far larger library?
 
K600 said:
It's incredible...the people who were slamming Microsoft for going with software emulation are in here, predictably spinning this as a positive thing for the Playstation 3.

Reality is going to set in eventually. What reality? The fact of the matter is that the Playstation 2 had a far larger library than the Xbox and Microsoft, a company that is known primarily for their software, still has problems with flawless emulation. What makes all of you so sure that Sony, a company with far less software development experience, is going to do a good job with a far larger library?
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Hire the ePSX team.
Not saying that's what is going to happen but it's not impossible either (Think Bleem with Dreamcast). With money as a motivation I'm sure they can get this rolling a lot faster.
 
Netrat33 said:
Hire the ePSX team.
Not saying that's what is going to happen but it's not impossible either (Think Bleem with Dreamcast). With money as a motivation I'm sure they can get this rolling a lot faster.
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Still, with a catalog at least 4 times the size of XBOX, PS2 software emulation is going to be rough.

Unless you think that somehow Sony either has more money or more programming experience than Microsoft.
 
Rocketpig said:
Still, with a catalog at least 4 times the size of XBOX, PS2 software emulation is going to be rough.

Unless you think that somehow Sony either has more money or more programming experience than Microsoft.
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Blasphemer! You're just filled with HATE!! :p
 
m3ta1head said:
Oh, you think this is bad? Apparently their scrapping the motion sensing as well.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/2007/02/23/euro_ps3/

I don't believe that Sony would do this but....uhh, :eek: Maybe they enjoy pissing consumers off?
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Now that seems rather odd. Does it really cost Sony that much to include motion sensing in the one controller that comes with the system? I am guessing they make a decent profit on the sale of the controllers as it is, so by removing motion sensing one would think that the controllers will also be less expensive. I guess time will tell on that one.

I am in the states, so this doesn't really affect me, but this seems like a bigger deal than the BC change to me. I don't even think that motion sensing is a huge deal, but by removing it from such a large portion of the install base, I would think developers would be less likely to even bother trying to implement it.
 
The_Law said:
I don't even think that motion sensing is a huge deal, but by removing it from such a large portion of the install base, I would think developers would be less likely to even bother trying to implement it.
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Exactly. IF this ends up being true then it would lead me to believe, after all the talk Sony gave about how this was the next evolution in controllers, that sixaxis was more of a smoke-screen to distract people from the fact they didn't include Rumble. I just don't see how they would take out rumble for such a large market, which has me thinking it's not true. If they do take it out though... wow.
 
What about the games that depend on motion sensing? Warhawk and fl0w, among others...

Wasn't MGS4 supposed to have motion sensing as a fundemental part of the gameplay as well?
 
There is no way Sony would take out the controllers motion sensors. Have they actually confirmed this? Toms Hardware must have read something wrong.
 
lol... what a nice thing to do. Wonder if the people with pre-orders are going to be able to get out of it without losing their money.
 
Blauman said:
yeah it uses a software emulator and the list is always growing. IMO the ps3 for sure has better BC than the 360 does, even this so called gimped EU version.
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How in the world could you say that something that is not even out yet has better BC than the 360?

Sony's own press release said that the Europe version would only play a LIMITED number of PS2 titles. That doesn't instill much confidence to me....
 
m3ta1head said:
Oh, you think this is bad? Apparently their scrapping the motion sensing as well.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/2007/02/23/euro_ps3/

I don't believe that Sony would do this but....uhh, :eek: Maybe they enjoy pissing consumers off?
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I don't really trust Tom's reporting. I seriously doubt this. If they do

HOLY SHIT what a fuck up. I mean one of their big games coming out soon (Lair) NEEDS the sixaxis to work. They would be cutting out all of Europe if that happened.
 
Blauman said:
IMO the ps3 for sure has better BC than the 360 does.
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Thats the whole point, the current PS3 in the US has hardware BC making it fully BC on just about all the PS2 games (thas a very alrge library), the newer PS3s are going to have a software emulation that is not fully BC per Sonys own words.
 
m3ta1head said:
Oh, you think this is bad? Apparently their scrapping the motion sensing as well.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/2007/02/23/euro_ps3/

I don't believe that Sony would do this but....uhh, :eek: Maybe they enjoy pissing consumers off?
Click to expand...
Normally I would be sceptical of Tom's if it were simply an editorial...but this seems like they are just quoting a press release from Sony!:eek: I never thought the whole "sixaxis" thing was a big deal but dropping features while maintaining a high price surely won't help drive sales..
 
If sony does remove motion sensing then they are even stupider then I thought, I'm pretty sure developers won't support motion sensing if sony does that.
 
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