SP2...good or not?

T

T-Bird 151

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So, from what I understand, I've downloaded the final SP2 RC2 from Microsoft. And I have to admit that I'm a little disappointed about a few things.

http://www.iamnotageek.com/a/164-p1.php provides a number of bittorrent links.

Once the package finished installing, I restarted the machine as required. Things started up just fine. The machine for one reason or another feels much faster to me. However, I do have some quarrels about the new service pack.

This quarrel is not based entirely on my situation because my network has a firewall sitting in front of any machines, however, this is over the masses of people that have their broadband connection directly hooked up to their main machine.

As the computer starts finishing booting up, a nice control center opens up. Definately nice--it informs many users of the abilities and whatnot. Now here is my major problem. The system pops up a firewall notification to allow a program to pass through the firewall un-impeded...kinda like ZoneAlarm has done in the past. But as this window is sitting there asking me to block or let the program pass...the program loads up in the background. ???? :confused:

Now, I bet that if a person blocks the program, the firewall won't allow it to go through next time...but what if it's a malicious program? I mean, say spyware is trying to get outside the computer....the firewall asks you to block it, and you do, but it contrinues to run on the system until the next restart.

Now, shouldn't a firewall block sometime even from the inception of it's install? At least until you create a rule to let it go by?
 
When you say the program loads in the background... does network traffic actually begin occuring? Seems likely that Windows is allowing the program to load but not communicate, which is just as effective as not loading at all (from a firewall standpoint).
 
Deviationer said:
ANY of the so called FINAL's out there are FAKE!!!
Click to expand...

that's quite an ignorant statement.

Filename: WindowsXP-KB835935-SP2-ENU.exe
Filesize: 266 MB (278,927,592 bytes)
md5sum: 59a98f181fe383907e520a391d75b5a7
Digital Signature: 04 August 2004 11:06:58

that is the file information for the 100% real SP2 RTM update, the file is around, and legit.
 
Only Beta testers have it and it leaked out onto the net. I'm going to wait until Aug 10. Thats when all machines have SP2 RC2 will be able to download a special copy only for them. You never want to risk downloading a SP from anywhere but Microsoft. Anybody could of changed the code.
 
I'm pretty sure that the code has not been changed. On top of that...major sites are reporting this. You could be right that this is still just the BETA version. However, the only reason that I would download something of this nature and system changing capabilities is if I thought it was credible. I hope that it is not the beta as it would be a grave mistake on my part...however, places such as slashdot and iamnotageek are reporting to this being the final.

As for network traffic, programs such as AOL IM load up the buddy list while the firewall accept/deny window sitting in front of me. Other IM programs such as Yahoo and Xfire also started up...all obtaining buddy lists which I'm pretty sure communicates to a server at startup...which would prove network communication is going on.
 
On a secondary note and referencing back to the website where I got the torrent...he is hosting a torrent which specifically relates to SP2 2180 RTM. That, of which, is the final release.
 
ComputerBox34 said:
Only Beta testers have it and it leaked out onto the net. I'm going to wait until Aug 10. Thats when all machines have SP2 RC2 will be able to download a special copy only for them. You never want to risk downloading a SP from anywhere but Microsoft. Anybody could of changed the code.
Click to expand...

the file has a digital signature from microsoft, the md5sum matches, it's legit.
 
Xtasy0 said:
the file has a digital signature from microsoft, the md5sum matches, it's legit.
Click to expand...


Most people don't know how to check this or don't even know what it is. That's the problem. If you know what your doing, go right ahead. But, personally, I still wouldn't risk it.
 
ComputerBox34 said:
Most people don't know how to check this or don't even know what it is. That's the problem. If you know what your doing, go right ahead. But, personally, I still wouldn't risk it.
Click to expand...


well, this IS hardocp...
 
So anyway, back to the original point of the post...the firewall portion of the update is completely annoying me.

I mean this is mean to prevent bad things from happening to computers--specifically to users who don't know much about computers...simply to patch their computers and hope that all goes well...

One thing that I keep coming across in my mind is that most people are not going to reformat their computers simply to put this patch on the system. So they will have existing software (like me) that has HTTP requests sending out prior to the firewall being initiated. So why don't they have the firewall block everything until permission is granted?
 
T-Bird 151 said:
So anyway, back to the original point of the post...the firewall portion of the update is completely annoying me.

I mean this is mean to prevent bad things from happening to computers--specifically to users who don't know much about computers...simply to patch their computers and hope that all goes well...

One thing that I keep coming across in my mind is that most people are not going to reformat their computers simply to put this patch on the system. So they will have existing software (like me) that has HTTP requests sending out prior to the firewall being initiated. So why don't they have the firewall block everything until permission is granted?
Click to expand...

well, when it pops up the box its actually asking you to unblock it, which would mean "everything" is blocked to start off with, of course as you said, network processes seem to connect either way, i'm going to test this a bit further.
 
I should probably turn it back on...but I'm just going to let the smoothwall firewall take care of everything ;)
 
T-Bird 151 said:
I should probably turn it back on...but I'm just going to let the smoothwall firewall take care of everything ;)
Click to expand...

probably a good idea, except smoothwall won't stop programs from connecting out ;/

but yeah, upon further investigation, i started up an mirc client and the firewall immediately asked me if i wanted to unblock mirc, so i left the dialog up, i connected to an irc server, no problem, i click the "leave it blocked" option, and sure enough i stayed connected to irc...i joined channels, i pinged channels, no problems...strange...

so in summation, the winxp sp2 firewall sucks ass, and it's useless.
 
So basically the released the package in haste...didn't really care that it won't block sometime...I mean what kind of secutiry !!! patch is that?
 
SP2 is pretty worthless for people who actually have a basic understanding of their computer (the 0.1% of us out there). The Security Center thing is just annoying. All it really does is add another icon to the system tray with no option to close it.

Windows Firewall? No thanks. Nobody is going to try to hack me. Firewalls are incredibly hyped up by people who think they know what they're talking about but don't. Real hackers don't target home users; only script kiddies really do and they can be easily avoided by using common sense (don't open stupid attachments).

Automatic Updates? No thanks. Visiting the Windows Update site is not that hard and the last thing I want is some stupid box to pop up informing me of new updates or, worse yet, to start automatically downloading then installing updates ruining my framerate in whatever game I happen to be playing at the time.

Antivirus notifications? Uhhh... WTF? All it does (I assume) is notify you when a file is infected (something my AV does already) and maybe tell you when there's an update. Once again, updating is very easy, even easier than Windows Update and I don't need something holding my hand and creating pop ups telling me I should update. Also, if you practice some common sense antivirus isn't even really needed.

I realize that this common sense doesn't apply to 99.9% of computer users as they totally lack it. They are really who SP2 is designed for. If you know how you use your computer it's just bloat.
 
Deviationer said:
ANY of the so called FINAL's out there are FAKE!!!
Click to expand...

WindowsXP-KB835935-SP2-ENU.exe
59A98F181FE383907E520A391D75B5A7 - MD5 hash

Let's see how 'FAKE' it is in a few days.
 
kick@ss said:
All it really does is add another icon to the system tray with no option to close it.
Click to expand...

You can disable the icon. Tell the Security Center you have your own firewall that you will monitor, disable Automatic Updates and you're AV program is probably already recognized. After you have them all sorted the icon disappears.
 
kick@ss said:
SP2 is pretty worthless for people who actually have a basic understanding of their computer (the 0.1% of us out there). The Security Center thing is just annoying. All it really does is add another icon to the system tray with no option to close it.
Click to expand...

The Security Center feature is not very useful for people like you or me, agreed. However, the myriad of under the hood improvements in SP2 are definitely worth it. It also has a much nicer user interface for wireless connectivity and a way to manage (i.e. delete) your IE addons (trust me: you have several).

Windows Firewall? No thanks. Nobody is going to try to hack me. Firewalls are incredibly hyped up by people who think they know what they're talking about but don't. Real hackers don't target home users; only script kiddies really do and they can be easily avoided by using common sense (don't open stupid attachments).
Click to expand...

That's what everybody said before Blaster, which exploited a flaw in a network service. So I guess you're right -- hackers won't target you, however computer worms will because they target everything in sight. If you're already behind a firewall/NAT/whatever, then go ahead and turn it off. Otherwise, don't even pretend you're protected just because you've got the sense to not open attachments and whatnot.

Automatic Updates? No thanks. Visiting the Windows Update site is not that hard and the last thing I want is some stupid box to pop up informing me of new updates or, worse yet, to start automatically downloading then installing updates ruining my framerate in whatever game I happen to be playing at the time.
Click to expand...

Automatic Updates uses a technology called BITS -- Background Intelligent Transfer Service. It is designed to only use bandwidth that is not already being used. If you have a broadband connection then your games are only using a fraction of your bandwidth anyway (most are optimized to actually work with dial-up remember); allowing AU to use another fraction of your bandwidth will not affect your gameplay.

The whole point of AU is that you get the important updates without having to go to the WU site all the time, without having to even waste the time to think about that stuff. Sure, it's easy to go to the website, but it's even easier to turn on AU and just forget about it. Set it to "Download updates, but let me choose when to install them" so the installation doesn't interfere with games (the download won't interfere, but installation would).

How often do you go to the WU web site? Every week? Every month? Turning on AU basically checks that for you every day without you even having to think about it. That's getting the computer to do work for you, for free -- that's something smart that even us 0.1% can benefit from.

Antivirus notifications? Uhhh... WTF? All it does (I assume) is notify you when a file is infected (something my AV does already) and maybe tell you when there's an update. Once again, updating is very easy, even easier than Windows Update and I don't need something holding my hand and creating pop ups telling me I should update. Also, if you practice some common sense antivirus isn't even really needed.
Click to expand...

All it does is tell you if your AV signatures for whatever AV program you have are not up to date, or if you don't have an AV program then it suggests you get one. It does not implement any antivirus scanning of any kind. The issue is that not all AV programs have auto update, or have it turned on, and so people aren't always aware that their signatures are out of date and that they're at risk. Again, you or I would be on top of this and can turn it off. I don't personally run AV because it noticeably affects performance.

I realize that this common sense doesn't apply to 99.9% of computer users as they totally lack it. They are really who SP2 is designed for. If you know how you use your computer it's just bloat.
Click to expand...

Again, SP2 has a number of under-the-hood improvements that everyone will benefit from. It's not "just bloat."

Oh and Xtasy0, before downloading it remember that the RTM date was August 6th, not August 4th. The file you have there may be legit and from Microsoft but unless it's Build 2180 from August 6th then it's not the RTM release.

Remember this: If most people had had their firewall enabled last year then Blaster would not have had an impact. If most people had had Automatic Updates enabled last year then Blaster would not have had an impact. If most people had up-to-date Anti-Virus last year then Blaster would not have had an impact.

So at least turn on Auto-Update.
 
Good post...but why does the firewall still allow outgoing network traffic without initially blocking it? That...just...doesn't...make...sense.
 
T-Bird 151 said:
Good post...but why does the firewall still allow outgoing network traffic without initially blocking it? That...just...doesn't...make...sense.
Click to expand...
Because it only blocks incoming connections.
 
That's pretty useless.... but he was still able to communicate via IRC.

How do I check a digital signature from MS? I'm aware of md5sums and how to use them (linux good!) but I haven't checked anything that way on the windows platform.
 
T-Bird 151 said:
Good post...but why does the firewall still allow outgoing network traffic without initially blocking it? That...just...doesn't...make...sense.
Click to expand...

I agree that the behavior he was describing seems odd or at the very least counter-intuitive, and I've seen it myself. The only explanation that makes sense is that it's asking permission for some other kind of network traffic other than what would prevent loading your contact list. Maybe it's blocking the part of AIM that goes to download those small ads it puts at the top of the window? :)

I installed SP2 RTM on both of my machines on Friday and I've found it actually works better than any of the RC or interim builds I installed in the past. RC2 did some weird stuff like it made my Network Connections dialog not work (it wouldn't appear!).
 
kleptophobiac said:
That's pretty useless.... but he was still able to communicate via IRC.

How do I check a digital signature from MS? I'm aware of md5sums and how to use them (linux good!) but I haven't checked anything that way on the windows platform.
Click to expand...

To check the digital signature, right click on a file and hit Properties. Go to the "Digital Signatures" tab. If there is no tab, then there is no signature.
 
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